Ole Gunnar Solskjær | 2021/22 Discussion
- Thread starter Samid
- Start date
- Status
Great Callum Wilson and Gribben-White knowing Solskjaer. Hopefully him and his committee aren't hear to see it through.
Well Ole was bigging up Mason all summer. Lukaku swap deal became possible after it came up that Inter can't afford him.
Getting rid of Sanchez and Lukaku was clear before we entertained any transfer business. When the manager says the players aren't in the first team plans and it was pretty obvious IMO even at the start of the window, what can the board do bar selling them off?
It's not Woodward to make the call that Mason will be good enough or we don't need another CM.
Besides Longstaff is a 21 years old midfielder with handful of games in PL, who also has looked pretty average this season (think he also was unfit). Would splashing on him 50m made any difference to our fortunes?
Sounds more of a wishful thinking to me in terms of who Ole wanted and not. At the end of the day he was happy with the squad.
It doesn't make sense to say he desperately wanted a CM, considering he didn't make a move for one apart from Longstaff. Maybe he did put more faith in the youngsters than he should?
Apart from that there are loans when you have no money to bring in the right players. There were many options we can loan a midfielder or a striker or two.
The planning was piss poor mate and you surely have to hold Ole and the coaching team responsible, not only the board and Woodward..
He also signed Fabio, Kenwyne Jones and a few no-marks from Molde (whose names I forget and most likely couldn't spell anyway) but they were never going to be enough to prevent relegation.
Taking on the Cardiff job, under those circumstances, was always going to be a loser any way you look at it.
Personally, i'm at the point of fecking off from everything related to online discussions about football. This will be my post number 1992, if you do a quick, but low, estimate and say that each post takes 5 mins, we're talking a minimum of 166 hours, which is clearly not healthy in any perspective whatsoever.
Unfortunately there's not much room for intelligent debates with a bit of perspective, hoping for the majority to notice that everything isn't black and white is apparantly a bit too much to hope for. There's too many, and lets be somewhat blunt here, complete idiots presenting absurd theories as facts without even getting the basics right. So you can't even register what we're doing on the pitch, but you do have all the answers for that the club should do next, mint, join the lot of taxi drivers wo have all the answers to Brexit and everything related to immigration. You'll have people who claim we aren't pressing high, that teams are happy to allow us to have the ball, that we're only a counter attacking side, that we don't actually play as a team and that all the goals we've scored so far this season are down to individuals, grass is always greener on the other side. There's the moaning about how it's going to be difficult to find a decent manager as anyone coming in will have to accept not being backed.
I mean, really ? Last time i checked, we've invested over £850mill in transfer fees alone since Fergie retired, spread over 4 managers, and our squad still resembles swiss cheese in terms of holes...Every one of them has been given full autonomy, to the point where we still have a solid core of players from Fergies days while the managers have mostly been replacing the players that the previous manager brought in..But yeah, we're most certainly not backing them, great logic there. At times, reading some of the shit that gets posted here reminds me of the Clayton Bigsby sketch by Chappelle.
In terms of the style we're trying to play, naive or not, good enough manager to get it working or not, it's still pretty damn obvious what we're trying to do on the pitch. We generally stick with a high defensive line where we try to win the ball back high up the pitch with close distance to the oppositions goal so we can take advantage of players out of position. We want defenders that are comfortable on the ball, both in terms of getting forward with it and being able to stay calm and pass our way out of trouble if the opposition presses us high up the pitch. Our goal against Crystal Palace is a pretty decent example, win the ball back high up the pitch and play quick one touch passes. Crystal Palace isn't in balance whatsoever, when James gets the ball inside their box we have as many attackers inside the box as they have defenders (3), with passing alternatives as well because they haven't had time to get back in position, their entire right hand side was completely exposed. Essentially it's the result of two things, we stand high up the pitch and when we lose the ball we immediately try to win it back by collective pressure instead of falling off to form a tight defense. Obviously it has it's risk, easily visible for Crystal Palace's second goal. For the vast majority of the match against Leicester we were high up the pitch, essentially giving them no passing options go forward to the point where they just kept giving the ball away without getting close to the midfield. The majority of this is visible in stats, how high up the pitch we stand, how much we press and how much we sprint, but people still argue against it and pretend we're doing something else. Weird. Do we struggle against compact teams ? Sure as hell, but we're still trying to form triangles out wide where the player with the ball should always have two passing options close by, where we try to outnumber them wide in order to force them to move another player out of position. Great success so far ? Nah, but that's hardly expected either, we're just getting started and we've been without two key players for too many matches, we'll be without 3 given Rashfords injury, expecting a squad that was already thin with attacking options to instantly cope with that is just absurd. Playing against teams that defend deep is one of the most challenging aspects of modern football, i'm hardly surprised that we haven't unlocked that bit yet, for a long period it was an easy tactic for teams in the league to stiffle Liverpool under Klopp by simply staying deep and compact, allowing Liverpool to dominate the ball without being a threat. It took Klopp a long time to get the right players, balance their playing style in order to last the full season and adapt to different type of oppositions. By all means, it's highly unlikely that Ole will ever get us that far, but people are comparing present day Liverpool with what we're doing and completely ignore that it took Liverpool a long long time to get there, and during that time plenty of fans in here took the piss out of how Klopp was never going to achieve anything with Liverpool.
Ref the structure of the club and the overall situation we're in, it's another black and white scenario that i don't fully understand. Again, since Fergie retired we've given every manager full autonomy to improve the squad, we've spent over £850mill on transfer fees, wages have been increased a lot. The notion that it's our current owners (and they aren't going anywhere anytime soon) holding us back has certainly nothing to do with the amount of money we spend both on transfer fees and wages ( a lot ). That they are refusing to change how the club functions, that Woodward is blocking things because he wants to hold all the power, stooges etc, seems to be very naive given the money involved here. As if it's some divine plan to spend absolute mental fees on transfers and increase our wage bill to the 4th highest in football with about feck all to show for it, but apparently all they think about is the dividends
People need to take into account that the club has operated in certain ways for a very long time. Fergie needed, and had, full autonomy at the club, we then gave the job to a similar type of manager in Moyes, someone who refuses to give the go to sign a player unless he's had ample time to scout the player himself, then to Van Gaal who has no issues with allowing someone else to make decisions on player signings, happy that the club had already done extensive scouting on Shaw and Herrera, then over to a manager that needs full autonomy, and then some, in Mourinho. I mean, it's hardly a surprise that things haven't progressed in terms of how the club operates when we've generally viewed finding the right manager as the solution to a bigger problem, and the majority of them have had the same stern view on having full control. Things take time. Lets not forget the amount of people in here who took the piss out of Liverpools transfer committee when Rodgers was around...
https://www.fourfourtwo.com/feature...utd-sporting-director-ed-woodward-van-der-sar
We need to be realistic and accept that there will be plenty of downs and a few ups. The first 11 isn't bad, but there isn't much depth at the moment and we desperately need our key players to stay fit. Given the uncertainty surrounding Tottenham and Chelsea, it's hardly impossible to finish in the top 4 and hopefully build on that.
Unfortunately there's not much room for intelligent debates with a bit of perspective, hoping for the majority to notice that everything isn't black and white is apparantly a bit too much to hope for. There's too many, and lets be somewhat blunt here, complete idiots presenting absurd theories as facts without even getting the basics right. So you can't even register what we're doing on the pitch, but you do have all the answers for that the club should do next, mint, join the lot of taxi drivers wo have all the answers to Brexit and everything related to immigration. You'll have people who claim we aren't pressing high, that teams are happy to allow us to have the ball, that we're only a counter attacking side, that we don't actually play as a team and that all the goals we've scored so far this season are down to individuals, grass is always greener on the other side. There's the moaning about how it's going to be difficult to find a decent manager as anyone coming in will have to accept not being backed.
I mean, really ? Last time i checked, we've invested over £850mill in transfer fees alone since Fergie retired, spread over 4 managers, and our squad still resembles swiss cheese in terms of holes...Every one of them has been given full autonomy, to the point where we still have a solid core of players from Fergies days while the managers have mostly been replacing the players that the previous manager brought in..But yeah, we're most certainly not backing them, great logic there. At times, reading some of the shit that gets posted here reminds me of the Clayton Bigsby sketch by Chappelle.
In terms of the style we're trying to play, naive or not, good enough manager to get it working or not, it's still pretty damn obvious what we're trying to do on the pitch. We generally stick with a high defensive line where we try to win the ball back high up the pitch with close distance to the oppositions goal so we can take advantage of players out of position. We want defenders that are comfortable on the ball, both in terms of getting forward with it and being able to stay calm and pass our way out of trouble if the opposition presses us high up the pitch. Our goal against Crystal Palace is a pretty decent example, win the ball back high up the pitch and play quick one touch passes. Crystal Palace isn't in balance whatsoever, when James gets the ball inside their box we have as many attackers inside the box as they have defenders (3), with passing alternatives as well because they haven't had time to get back in position, their entire right hand side was completely exposed. Essentially it's the result of two things, we stand high up the pitch and when we lose the ball we immediately try to win it back by collective pressure instead of falling off to form a tight defense. Obviously it has it's risk, easily visible for Crystal Palace's second goal. For the vast majority of the match against Leicester we were high up the pitch, essentially giving them no passing options go forward to the point where they just kept giving the ball away without getting close to the midfield. The majority of this is visible in stats, how high up the pitch we stand, how much we press and how much we sprint, but people still argue against it and pretend we're doing something else. Weird. Do we struggle against compact teams ? Sure as hell, but we're still trying to form triangles out wide where the player with the ball should always have two passing options close by, where we try to outnumber them wide in order to force them to move another player out of position. Great success so far ? Nah, but that's hardly expected either, we're just getting started and we've been without two key players for too many matches, we'll be without 3 given Rashfords injury, expecting a squad that was already thin with attacking options to instantly cope with that is just absurd. Playing against teams that defend deep is one of the most challenging aspects of modern football, i'm hardly surprised that we haven't unlocked that bit yet, for a long period it was an easy tactic for teams in the league to stiffle Liverpool under Klopp by simply staying deep and compact, allowing Liverpool to dominate the ball without being a threat. It took Klopp a long time to get the right players, balance their playing style in order to last the full season and adapt to different type of oppositions. By all means, it's highly unlikely that Ole will ever get us that far, but people are comparing present day Liverpool with what we're doing and completely ignore that it took Liverpool a long long time to get there, and during that time plenty of fans in here took the piss out of how Klopp was never going to achieve anything with Liverpool.
Ref the structure of the club and the overall situation we're in, it's another black and white scenario that i don't fully understand. Again, since Fergie retired we've given every manager full autonomy to improve the squad, we've spent over £850mill on transfer fees, wages have been increased a lot. The notion that it's our current owners (and they aren't going anywhere anytime soon) holding us back has certainly nothing to do with the amount of money we spend both on transfer fees and wages ( a lot ). That they are refusing to change how the club functions, that Woodward is blocking things because he wants to hold all the power, stooges etc, seems to be very naive given the money involved here. As if it's some divine plan to spend absolute mental fees on transfers and increase our wage bill to the 4th highest in football with about feck all to show for it, but apparently all they think about is the dividends
People need to take into account that the club has operated in certain ways for a very long time. Fergie needed, and had, full autonomy at the club, we then gave the job to a similar type of manager in Moyes, someone who refuses to give the go to sign a player unless he's had ample time to scout the player himself, then to Van Gaal who has no issues with allowing someone else to make decisions on player signings, happy that the club had already done extensive scouting on Shaw and Herrera, then over to a manager that needs full autonomy, and then some, in Mourinho. I mean, it's hardly a surprise that things haven't progressed in terms of how the club operates when we've generally viewed finding the right manager as the solution to a bigger problem, and the majority of them have had the same stern view on having full control. Things take time. Lets not forget the amount of people in here who took the piss out of Liverpools transfer committee when Rodgers was around...https://www.fourfourtwo.com/feature...utd-sporting-director-ed-woodward-van-der-sar
We need to be realistic and accept that there will be plenty of downs and a few ups. The first 11 isn't bad, but there isn't much depth at the moment and we desperately need our key players to stay fit. Given the uncertainty surrounding Tottenham and Chelsea, it's hardly impossible to finish in the top 4 and hopefully build on that.
But didn't he also have them in like 17th in championship before leaving? So not like he was turning it around anytime soon.
Well its positive. They are at least aware of the need for a striker. I was worried he genuinely rated Rashford and Martial as sufficient for goals.
From the article x
I'm slightly confused here, we didn't go public with any of that, Lukaku and his agent did, they made it perfectly clear whilst the 18/19 season was still ongoing that he wanted to leave the club at the end of the season, how many "dreams of moving to Italy" interviews did he have again ?
In terms of the planning, i'd assume that very few, if any, on here are privy to that type of information, it's equally possible that we had a list of transfer targets and some of them were unavailable, then we made the decision to wait for the players we actually want instead of signing someone else just for the sake of it.
My point was Ole was perfectly aware Lukaku is going to leave, I'm not sure what you are implying here? Since the beginning of the transfer window he knew we would have to cope without him.
Well that decision is clearly wrong when you end up in the bottom half of the table after 6 games and scoring 8 goals. Whoever made that decision needs to be held accountable on the back of this years results, because due to that decision being made we will most probably miss CL, those "unavailable" targets being again unavailable next year because they won't want to join a team not in CL and also another season lost this year.
If you believe that the manager was never part of this decision then I'm not sure what I can say and what the manager exactly is supposed to do at our club.
Personally, i'm at the point of fecking off from everything related to online discussions about football. This will be my post number 1992, if you do a quick, but low, estimate and say that each post takes 5 mins, we're talking a minimum of 166 hours, which is clearly not healthy in any perspective whatsoever.
Unfortunately there's not much room for intelligent debates with a bit of perspective, hoping for the majority to notice that everything isn't black and white is apparantly a bit too much to hope for. There's too many, and lets be somewhat blunt here, complete idiots presenting absurd theories as facts without even getting the basics right. So you can't even register what we're doing on the pitch, but you do have all the answers for that the club should do next, mint, join the lot of taxi drivers wo have all the answers to Brexit and everything related to immigration. You'll have people who claim we aren't pressing high, that teams are happy to allow us to have the ball, that we're only a counter attacking side, that we don't actually play as a team and that all the goals we've scored so far this season are down to individuals, grass is always greener on the other side. There's the moaning about how it's going to be difficult to find a decent manager as anyone coming in will have to accept not being backed.
I mean, really ? Last time i checked, we've invested over £850mill in transfer fees alone since Fergie retired, spread over 4 managers, and our squad still resembles swiss cheese in terms of holes...Every one of them has been given full autonomy, to the point where we still have a solid core of players from Fergies days while the managers have mostly been replacing the players that the previous manager brought in..But yeah, we're most certainly not backing them, great logic there. At times, reading some of the shit that gets posted here reminds me of the Clayton Bigsby sketch by Chappelle.
In terms of the style we're trying to play, naive or not, good enough manager to get it working or not, it's still pretty damn obvious what we're trying to do on the pitch. We generally stick with a high defensive line where we try to win the ball back high up the pitch with close distance to the oppositions goal so we can take advantage of players out of position. We want defenders that are comfortable on the ball, both in terms of getting forward with it and being able to stay calm and pass our way out of trouble if the opposition presses us high up the pitch. Our goal against Crystal Palace is a pretty decent example, win the ball back high up the pitch and play quick one touch passes. Crystal Palace isn't in balance whatsoever, when James gets the ball inside their box we have as many attackers inside the box as they have defenders (3), with passing alternatives as well because they haven't had time to get back in position, their entire right hand side was completely exposed. Essentially it's the result of two things, we stand high up the pitch and when we lose the ball we immediately try to win it back by collective pressure instead of falling off to form a tight defense. Obviously it has it's risk, easily visible for Crystal Palace's second goal. For the vast majority of the match against Leicester we were high up the pitch, essentially giving them no passing options go forward to the point where they just kept giving the ball away without getting close to the midfield. The majority of this is visible in stats, how high up the pitch we stand, how much we press and how much we sprint, but people still argue against it and pretend we're doing something else. Weird. Do we struggle against compact teams ? Sure as hell, but we're still trying to form triangles out wide where the player with the ball should always have two passing options close by, where we try to outnumber them wide in order to force them to move another player out of position. Great success so far ? Nah, but that's hardly expected either, we're just getting started and we've been without two key players for too many matches, we'll be without 3 given Rashfords injury, expecting a squad that was already thin with attacking options to instantly cope with that is just absurd. Playing against teams that defend deep is one of the most challenging aspects of modern football, i'm hardly surprised that we haven't unlocked that bit yet, for a long period it was an easy tactic for teams in the league to stiffle Liverpool under Klopp by simply staying deep and compact, allowing Liverpool to dominate the ball without being a threat. It took Klopp a long time to get the right players, balance their playing style in order to last the full season and adapt to different type of oppositions. By all means, it's highly unlikely that Ole will ever get us that far, but people are comparing present day Liverpool with what we're doing and completely ignore that it took Liverpool a long long time to get there, and during that time plenty of fans in here took the piss out of how Klopp was never going to achieve anything with Liverpool.
Ref the structure of the club and the overall situation we're in, it's another black and white scenario that i don't fully understand. Again, since Fergie retired we've given every manager full autonomy to improve the squad, we've spent over £850mill on transfer fees, wages have been increased a lot. The notion that it's our current owners (and they aren't going anywhere anytime soon) holding us back has certainly nothing to do with the amount of money we spend both on transfer fees and wages ( a lot ). That they are refusing to change how the club functions, that Woodward is blocking things because he wants to hold all the power, stooges etc, seems to be very naive given the money involved here. As if it's some divine plan to spend absolute mental fees on transfers and increase our wage bill to the 4th highest in football with about feck all to show for it, but apparently all they think about is the dividends
https://www.fourfourtwo.com/feature...utd-sporting-director-ed-woodward-van-der-sar
We need to be realistic and accept that there will be plenty of downs and a few ups. The first 11 isn't bad, but there isn't much depth at the moment and we desperately need our key players to stay fit. Given the uncertainty surrounding Tottenham and Chelsea, it's hardly impossible to finish in the top 4 and hopefully build on that.
Bloody hell i'm shocked and applauded you for talking sense. But Ole still isn't the guy.
Correct, see below...
He signed -
Kenwyne Jones
Wilfried Zaha
Magnus Wolff Eikrem
Mats Moller Daehli
Jo Inge Berget
Fabio
Cala
Absolutely correct - they were 17th in the Championship after 7 games.
Personally, i'm at the point of fecking off from everything related to online discussions about football. This will be my post number 1992, if you do a quick, but low, estimate and say that each post takes 5 mins, we're talking a minimum of 166 hours, which is clearly not healthy in any perspective whatsoever.
Unfortunately there's not much room for intelligent debates with a bit of perspective, hoping for the majority to notice that everything isn't black and white is apparantly a bit too much to hope for. There's too many, and lets be somewhat blunt here, complete idiots presenting absurd theories as facts without even getting the basics right. So you can't even register what we're doing on the pitch, but you do have all the answers for that the club should do next, mint, join the lot of taxi drivers wo have all the answers to Brexit and everything related to immigration. You'll have people who claim we aren't pressing high, that teams are happy to allow us to have the ball, that we're only a counter attacking side, that we don't actually play as a team and that all the goals we've scored so far this season are down to individuals, grass is always greener on the other side. There's the moaning about how it's going to be difficult to find a decent manager as anyone coming in will have to accept not being backed.
I mean, really ? Last time i checked, we've invested over £850mill in transfer fees alone since Fergie retired, spread over 4 managers, and our squad still resembles swiss cheese in terms of holes...Every one of them has been given full autonomy, to the point where we still have a solid core of players from Fergies days while the managers have mostly been replacing the players that the previous manager brought in..But yeah, we're most certainly not backing them, great logic there. At times, reading some of the shit that gets posted here reminds me of the Clayton Bigsby sketch by Chappelle.
In terms of the style we're trying to play, naive or not, good enough manager to get it working or not, it's still pretty damn obvious what we're trying to do on the pitch. We generally stick with a high defensive line where we try to win the ball back high up the pitch with close distance to the oppositions goal so we can take advantage of players out of position. We want defenders that are comfortable on the ball, both in terms of getting forward with it and being able to stay calm and pass our way out of trouble if the opposition presses us high up the pitch. Our goal against Crystal Palace is a pretty decent example, win the ball back high up the pitch and play quick one touch passes. Crystal Palace isn't in balance whatsoever, when James gets the ball inside their box we have as many attackers inside the box as they have defenders (3), with passing alternatives as well because they haven't had time to get back in position, their entire right hand side was completely exposed. Essentially it's the result of two things, we stand high up the pitch and when we lose the ball we immediately try to win it back by collective pressure instead of falling off to form a tight defense. Obviously it has it's risk, easily visible for Crystal Palace's second goal. For the vast majority of the match against Leicester we were high up the pitch, essentially giving them no passing options go forward to the point where they just kept giving the ball away without getting close to the midfield. The majority of this is visible in stats, how high up the pitch we stand, how much we press and how much we sprint, but people still argue against it and pretend we're doing something else. Weird. Do we struggle against compact teams ? Sure as hell, but we're still trying to form triangles out wide where the player with the ball should always have two passing options close by, where we try to outnumber them wide in order to force them to move another player out of position. Great success so far ? Nah, but that's hardly expected either, we're just getting started and we've been without two key players for too many matches, we'll be without 3 given Rashfords injury, expecting a squad that was already thin with attacking options to instantly cope with that is just absurd. Playing against teams that defend deep is one of the most challenging aspects of modern football, i'm hardly surprised that we haven't unlocked that bit yet, for a long period it was an easy tactic for teams in the league to stiffle Liverpool under Klopp by simply staying deep and compact, allowing Liverpool to dominate the ball without being a threat. It took Klopp a long time to get the right players, balance their playing style in order to last the full season and adapt to different type of oppositions. By all means, it's highly unlikely that Ole will ever get us that far, but people are comparing present day Liverpool with what we're doing and completely ignore that it took Liverpool a long long time to get there, and during that time plenty of fans in here took the piss out of how Klopp was never going to achieve anything with Liverpool.
Ref the structure of the club and the overall situation we're in, it's another black and white scenario that i don't fully understand. Again, since Fergie retired we've given every manager full autonomy to improve the squad, we've spent over £850mill on transfer fees, wages have been increased a lot. The notion that it's our current owners (and they aren't going anywhere anytime soon) holding us back has certainly nothing to do with the amount of money we spend both on transfer fees and wages ( a lot ). That they are refusing to change how the club functions, that Woodward is blocking things because he wants to hold all the power, stooges etc, seems to be very naive given the money involved here. As if it's some divine plan to spend absolute mental fees on transfers and increase our wage bill to the 4th highest in football with about feck all to show for it, but apparently all they think about is the dividends
https://www.fourfourtwo.com/feature...utd-sporting-director-ed-woodward-van-der-sar
We need to be realistic and accept that there will be plenty of downs and a few ups. The first 11 isn't bad, but there isn't much depth at the moment and we desperately need our key players to stay fit. Given the uncertainty surrounding Tottenham and Chelsea, it's hardly impossible to finish in the top 4 and hopefully build on that.
Don't worry your 166 hours are not completely wasted. Today for instance - at the very least - you managed to renew some of my faith in mankind (and it's taken some hard beatings throughout the years trust me). Also - if I may offer some advice - if you write your posts while at work it kind of feels as if you're getting paid doing it
Edit note:
...and off went that faith again...
I think the proof is in the pudding with this long term vision. But we will act like History is not important once again.
What you wrote was:
There seems to be a mismatch between what you claim your point is and what you're actually writing.
If the decision is clearly wrong or not is something we'll find out at the end of the season, not after 6 matches.
Not entirely sure where i've written anything that would give the impression that the manager isn't a part of any of those decisions.
The original point wasn't just about Lukaku but also for Sanchez, who most probably was not in the manager plans - hence released on loan.
So if the decision is wrong at the end of the season (or at least until sacked) then by all accounts it's on the manager as well? If so, we can agree on that point.
So not making a signing was his call which is also understandable. This nonsense about being refused one is just that.
150m £ don’t give you 6 players of quality in todays market. They give you players but what point is it to buy without getting first 11 better. And for 25-30m £ per player you got to be lucky otherwise it is throwing money like we have done previous years. So where do you start? With the floor like you are building a house. Sign new contract with GK. Buy well needed defenders. Next move: midfield and attack.
Yes, someone made decision. But neither you or I know who. Mourinho was not happy with the squad and wanted players only for the board to deny him. So it is not always manager that decide. Then you have the economic aspects. We don’t know what happens backstage. I never said board denied. I said IF they did then you can’t blame Ole.
What we know is who we got and who left. Nothing more. Nothing less.
There were twitter rumors of Dembele of Lyon and Mcginn. These two would be a very good addition.
Look at the above post and article. Seems that it was his call as well.
Building a squad is not like building a house. You need a spine and to be competitive in every line.
When he says there were forwards available and decided against it then surely if we're struggling in that aspect surely it's down on the manager then?
Yeah according to the Mail we're keeping tabs on him.
I think what Solsjkaer meant is that he didn't want to bring a striker who wasn't good enough to help him short term, which is a choice that is down to him yes. Decisions like that is one of the few reasons I'm still behind Ole personally, he seems to be more interested in the long term vision of the club than previous managers; even if that future might not include him.
Dembele, one of the forwards who were most likely available and that we probably weren't 100% about kicked off the season with 5 goals in 4 games.
Most likely he's one that could've improved us.
Most likely he's one that could've improved us.
That is not how it works though is it? Long term future also depends on short term success. Missing out CL, finishing mid table - have direct effect on us trying to get those who are good enough.
Leaving your squad barebones is not something an experienced manager would do - hence he has so much flack - leaving the team vulnerable to injuries, fatigue and also short in certain areas.
Setting up for a long campaign, knowing your team is not good enough on the basis that next year better players will be available is pretty naive if you ask me.
But what has this got to do with any of it: what can the board do bar selling them off?
You're making it sound like Ole forced the club into getting rid of both Lukaku and Sanchez, after going public with how none of them are in our plans. Lukaku and his agent made it perfectly clear that they wanted a transfer to Italy, while Sanchez ranks up there with Bebe in terms of awful signings.
Ofcourse it's on the manager as well, doesn't mean that the logic behind it was bad
It's absolutely how it works.
We saw it first hand last summer when Jose wanted another centre back and everyone was quick to say "well he already bought two!"
Choosing not to purchase a midfielder or striker might mean he loses his job (provided he's telling the truth) but it's surely better than bringing in more deadwood.
Plus United finishing outside champions league places won't be as bad as other clubs, we make a lot more money than most clubs.
That's a conversation for the end of the season anyway, nobody can say for certain where we'll end up.
Getting rid of Sanchez to me looks like manager's decision. It was done after the window closed and we still pay his wages (Inter only part of it). Sanchez so far, despite not being up for it, didn't really moan he wanted to leave.
As for Lukaku I think there were many indications that he wasn't Ole's "type of forward", so naturally if he wasn't promised first team football next year he will want out on the basis he's a 75-80m striker. Regardless of whether it was purely down on Lukaku not wanting to play anymore for us, Ole knew perfectly well he needs replacing. He chose not to go that way, coming from the latest interview.
I'm pretty sure many top managers use stop gaps to prevent injury crisis. There's no guaranteed success in every incoming transfer to say that we need to bring in only players that we're 100% sure in.
If this is the line of thinking then injuries should never be an excuse.
Exactly. Was signing llorente or mandzukic this summer really required? Maybe. They don’t fit what he wants but does he just take a body just in case?
ole clearly thought martial first, rashford 2nd and if it all goes badly then Greenwood.
I doubt he ever expected to get this deep into it but his luck has turned. It’s up to the rest of the boys to chip in.
Why bring in players anyway then when they can become a deadwood?
Did anyone called for Fergie's head when he brought in players like Bebe, Dong, Tosic, Buttner, Veron, Larsson, Djemba x2, Kleberson etc? You need backups and you need squad players, simple as.
Some might not be successful, but it's better than throwing 18 years olds or players that are clearly not fit to play anymore for the club.
United finishing outside CL will mean there are no players like Sancho coming in next year as well - those who are our prime targets. And since we won't be sure about other players, should we wait another season?
Come tomorrow we can be 3 points off relegation and 6 points off top 4. That's a good indication of where we could end in the table.
maybe it is just me, but didn't LVG intentionally keep the squad small and during injuries brought in youth players?
And ? Perhaps more importantly, he's been an absolute waste of space ever since joining us, highest wages in the league as well, it's a bad combination, it's also about the signals we send to the rest of the squad.
Ole praised Haaland during his days at Molde and said he was going to be a top class player, reminded him of Lukaku. Lukaku wasn't going to have the same position in the team as he had under Mourinho, where he could deliver one disaster of a performance after the next without his first team spot ever being in doubt, in a season where he spent the majority of it clearly out of shape, he responded by going public, followed by his agent doing the same, stating his wish to play in Italy "sooner rather than later".
It's rarely ideal to sign players the manager isn't sure of.
Nobody called for Fergies head but they would be ridiculous to, what a daft point.
There is a clear and obvious difference between not signing a player who is available if you think they're not good enough and refusing to ever buy anyone again.
We have backups and squad players.
As for throwing young players in at the deep end, one of them (Greenwood) has taken to the first team in a great way. I'd certainly rather see him play and even fail than bring in Llorente in some ridiculous hope of getting top four to chase one or two players who may not want to come anyway.
Finishing in the CL won't mean a player like Sancho would join, just as not finishing in the champions league would mean he wouldn't.
You're talking about a young player who is tearing up the bundesliga, not Messi.
Not to mention we've generally made 'bigger name' signings when we've not been in the champions league anyway.
Not in champions league: Pogba, Falcao, Ibrahimovic, Di Maria, Mkhytarian etc
In champions league: Alexis, Lukaku, Martial, Schweinsteiger.
Like I said, it doesn't make nearly as much difference to us as it would other clubs, and we may end up there at the end of the season anyway.
Current results aren't a good indication of anything six matches into the season. We got top 4 with Van Gaal after an identical start points wise to what we've had this season.
Mental comparison.
Veron was the most expensive signing in English football at the time, he was signed as a star player. Djemba Djemba and Kleberson were signed as players that would more or less go straight into the first 11. Larsson is the only one that comes close to being a natural comparison, being brought in on a short term loan which turned out to be pretty mint.
Bebe, Dong, Tosic, Buttner, christ
I'm surprised you didn't bring in fecking Manucho as well....Well actually he said he was aware of the need - that this was one of the areas he wanted to reinforce - but that the options weren't there for him and that he didn't want this club to keep signing for the sake of signing as that's not worked out very well for us. I can't really fault him for that to be honest - nor for getting rid of two players who were clearly sowing dissent both within the club and it's fanbase. However I agree that not getting at least one top class midfielder and a proper striker to go with that was a huge mistake going into this season - regardless of who's to blame for it that has to go down as a really stupid move. I am pretty sure the options were there if we'd put in an effort finding them - and it wouldn't even have to be "the perfect option" either - simply "decent and driven" would be an improvement from our current state. Perhaps both Ole and the board's been a bit naive in that regard - thinking "the best or nothing" rather than realizing that sometimes when perfection cannot be achieved you need to take a chance and improvise.
Or maybe they just want to build a team around youths too - hoping they'll evolve as the season progresses. If so and it works - brilliant - if not though... I'd say it's very risky if that's the case and also a bit unnecessary (they'd still get plenty of pitch time and chances to gain experience even if we'd made a couple more signings).
Again, it's like there is no forward in the world available who can improve us is a really daft way of looking at it. If you listen to all the excuses Ole is getting the squad is shite, so surely that means it's easy to upgrade?
We've made bigger name signings when we had Mourinho as a manager, not Ole.
During the season we finished 4th under LvG we didn't have the same short squad.
My point was all top managers are usually 50-50 in their success of signing players. That doesn't mean they shouldn't sign one until that one is 100% sure to be successful.Mental comparison.
Veron was the most expensive signing in English football at the time, he was signed as a star player. Djemba Djemba and Kleberson were signed as players that would more or less go straight into the first 11. Larsson is the only one that comes close to being a natural comparison, being brought in on a short term loan which turned out to be pretty mint.
Bebe, Dong, Tosic, Buttner, christ
Say it louder so the people in the back can hear.
If our scouts/management couldn’t identify replacements for Lukaku, Sanchez, Herrera, Fellaini that are better then what we currently have then they deserve the sack.
Can’t believe people are defending this s*** show.
I can understand the reasoning behind it of course, but the point is he was part of that decision and surely you can't really pin all the negatives on the board and absolve him from all fault.
It's easy to say it's Woodward's fault (not that it's not always appropriate to do so), or the board's fault, but essentially the one that should be doing all first hand footballing decision is still the manager.
You can't say - we were waiting only for the right ones and then go moaning about lack of options due to injuries, can you?
In this case it's not unlucky it's bad planning, simple as.
- Status