Ole Gunnar Solskjær | 2021/22 Discussion

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Cassidy said:
Klopps first 2 seasons at Liverpool you could say they sacrificed a little on results

Peps first season at City too

Poch first season at Spurs too

What was important was for the team to get familiar with the tactical setup and to continue with the process (Peps playing out from the back)

Ultimately though you are after results but they do not come over night

Agree with your post in general though
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Every club always have some minimum
Cassidy said:
Klopps first 2 seasons at Liverpool you could say they sacrificed a little on results

Peps first season at City too

Poch first season at Spurs too

What was important was for the team to get familiar with the tactical setup and to continue with the process (Peps playing out from the back)

Ultimately though you are after results but they do not come over night

Agree with your post in general though
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Club big as United have main ambition to win titles. So by lowering that with rebuilding process, minimum must be top4. You can't get back on top if you slip on 6th or 7th position because you will lose huge amount of money and reputation and with that you will not be able to buy best players.
Nobody is expecting title challenge this year( or even next year) but CL is crucial for long term. We are not Everton who can sacrifice few seasons. Pep finished 4th in his first season so still put his team in CL. Klopp only missed CL in first season when he came in half season.
 
We cannot keep blaming the managers for the problems at the club, but it seems obvious Ole isn't the right man either. His over reliance on average players like Pereira, Lingard etc is just bizarre. I think we have to keep him until the mess behind the scenes get sorted however.
 
There's not 1 team in this league that wont pose a threat to us, from 1 to 20 we're susceptible to lose to any one of them. When you do nothing and just coast through the game hoping for 1 or 2 nice moments your liable to get a slap in the face (concede a goal) almost every time. They arrogantly think that just turning up is enough, I thought Ole would have eradicated this mentality by now; but its still ever more prevalent.
 
JoaquinJoaquin said:
We cannot keep blaming the managers for the problems at the club, but it seems obvious Ole isn't the right man either. His over reliance on average players like Pereira, Lingard etc is just bizarre. I think we have to keep him until the mess behind the scenes get sorted however.
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I wouldnt just say it's his over reliance either. The board are to blame for some things, we all agree on that. However when you look at our team, can you honestly tell me they have been coached/set up properly with a game plan? I just dont see it and for that Ole is responsible. We dont look any better than last season. No identity, fluidity. Where is this high energy press he promised us We were going to see a much fitter Manchester United team. Players looked knackered yesterday and there are at least 4 of them sat at home with muscle injuries.
 
roonster09 said:
I'm consistent man, I said give Ole time like we did for other managers. I'm not even on 'Ole out' group, I just said I have lost hope on the manager but want him to turn it around.

Anyways end of the day, everyone (except few trolls) wants what's best for the club. People have different patience levels and express their view in different ways.
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That is it. There is no United fan who doesn't want the best for this club no matter who they want for coach or what players they want. Only difference is that "Ole out" group think that he is just not best for United's future and others still have faith that he is.
 
I would argue some posters on here need to lower expectations. Title candidates? No. Top 4 candidates? No. Top 6 candidates? Yes, and here lies the problem. Certain posters have this self-clouded view that United should be at the top. The reality is that the club is no where near those levels due to years of mismanagement, poor decisions, a lack of strategy and vision to adhere to, and lastly too many egos on the playing side.

Ole is trying to sort this out, I'm not convinced he's the right man at this moment, but at least support what he's trying to do ffs. It's positive, respectful of the clubs attacking values and it WILL take time. (As in 2 or 3 transfer windows), it's frankly embarrassing that during every blip the same crowd come out to hurl abuse at the manager.

No manager in the world is going to work miracles with this lot atm. Once Ole has his playing team in place, judge him fairly then. Half the side is not even the team Ole wants that he has to field.
 
red4ever 79 said:
I wouldnt just say it's his over reliance either. The board are to blame for some things, we all agree on that. However when you look at our team, can you honestly tell me they have been coached/set up properly with a game plan? I just dont see it and for that Ole is responsible. We dont look any better than last season. No identity, fluidity. Where is this high energy press he promised us We were going to see a much fitter Manchester United team. Players looked knackered yesterday and there are at least 4 of them sat at home with muscle injuries.
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I totally agree with you. After watching pre-season and even the Chelsea game to a degree I was encouraged at the high press and seemingly much better fitness levels. It seems that after the Wolves slip up that has gone completely out of the window and we are now at a weird cross roads where we don't know whether we are a counter attacking team or a pointless possesion based one. Thing is, we need to know the direction of where this club is heading before we can look at replacing the manager, as we need a potential new manager to be backed properly and not half arsed with the Glazers giving us a £70m type budget.
 
The club has always looked to short term fixes, when the job needed was a thorough upheaval of the entire squad, similar to what Pep executed at City. But whereas City’s owners gave Pep a blank chequebook and say build the team you want, we’ve only allowed managers to buy players that fit the commercial strategy. We can spend huge amounts on Sanchez because he has (or had) commercial value, but have been unwilling to spend similar amounts on players in less glamorous positions because you can’t use them in a watch advert in Asia. So the value isn’t considered to be there.

I’ve defended Ole a lot, not because I think he’s the man for the job, but because I don’t believe any single manager is going to fix this. The problem goes far deeper. Anyone desperate for a new manager - picture this team as managed by Pep. And picture the squad he’d build given a budget and Ed’s negotiating skills. The “Pep Guardiola is my idol” cries would be heard from the moon within a month.
 
Pogba and Martial being out is really putting us in a very bad spot and I feel things will start to look normal once they are back. Need them for Arsenal desperately.
 
Random Task said:
I fully agree with Keane here.

The players we have at the club, by and large, are nowhere near good enough. It's just that simple.
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That's the problem but ultimately we live in a culture where a manager gets one window and a few months to fix 6 years worth of bad decisions. Hopefully they give him until next January and just see this season as a big transition.
 
ash_86 said:
Pogba and Martial being out is really putting us in a very bad spot and I feel things will start to look normal once they are back. Need them for Arsenal desperately.
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Normal? What is normal losing 1-0 to West Ham instead of 2-0?

Or creating that one extra chance?
 
ash_86 said:
Creating more chances and hopefully finish them I guess.
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I love the optimism. I do somewhat agree in that we miss Pogba. I said it at the start before the season started we are bottom half quality without Pogba. He is the only one in our team who can control a midfield. We have been bossed around by every team in the midfield this season.
 
We played really good football in the first 5 or 6 matches Ole was here.

I think it's not a question of that he can't play attractive football. It more WHY won't he do it?

Injuries? Fitness? Our squad having the mental toughness of a 5 year old toddler? Probably all of it.
 
He will get the whole season regardless. Even at this point if he scrapes top 4 he still is not a good enough manager. There are so many things I can point out that are wrong.

Of course the board is shite but Ole in isolation is way out of his depth. His “plan” is one big fantasy and he does not know how to properly execute it anyway. It’s one big dream and I’m not buying it because he used to play for us.
 
romufc said:
I love the optimism. I do somewhat agree in that we miss Pogba. I said it at the start before the season started we are bottom half quality without Pogba. He is the only one in our team who can control a midfield. We have been bossed around by every team in the midfield this season.
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He's only one quality in our midfield and we are always going to struggle without him and on top of it you add martial too our best finisher and our chances against anyone takes a nose dive. It's the same for teams such as Arsenal and Chelsea too. Take out Auba and Abraham and they'll struggle to win too. Only city and pool are capable of handling loss of several personnel.
 
Volumiza said:
This bit I don't agree with. If Ole gets us top 4 with this crop of players he is absolutely good enough!
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Depends how he gets there. If he just scrapes it because Chelsea and Arsenal are somehow even more shite then us then it doesn’t prove he is good enough at all.
 
haram said:
Depends how he gets there. If he just scrapes it because Chelsea and Arsenal are somehow even more shite then us then it doesn’t prove he is good enough at all.
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If he's even close enough to the top 4 to be able to capitalise on other clubs misfortunes I would be very impressed at this stage.
 
Volumiza said:
If he's even close enough to the top 4 to be able to capitalise on other clubs misfortunes I would be very impressed at this stage.
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Seriously I have seen enough naivety from him to be 90% sure he is just out of his depth. Saying you would be impressed if he’s even close to the top 4 says it all about this club.
 
ash_86 said:
He's only one quality in our midfield and we are always going to struggle without him and on top of it you add martial too our best finisher and our chances against anyone takes a nose dive. It's the same for teams such as Arsenal and Chelsea too. Take out Auba and Abraham and they'll struggle to win too. Only city and pool are capable of handling loss of several personnel.
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I don't think taking Abraham will have that much on an issue. Auba yes, but that's because he gets 20 goals a season.

Does Martial get closE?
 
Andycoleno9 said:
Every club always have some minimum

Club big as United have main ambition to win titles. So by lowering that with rebuilding process, minimum must be top4. You can't get back on top if you slip on 6th or 7th position because you will lose huge amount of money and reputation and with that you will not be able to buy best players.
Nobody is expecting title challenge this year( or even next year) but CL is crucial for long term. We are not Everton who can sacrifice few seasons. Pep finished 4th in his first season so still put his team in CL. Klopp only missed CL in first season when he came in half season.
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Your minimum of top 4 is arbitrary

Klopp didn't finish top 4 in his first 2 seasons?

We already have finished 6 more than once in the last 3 seasons.

We have already sacrificed 7 seasons.

Having a real plan, with a good footballing manager is most important not finishing top 4. That is what led us to hiring people like Jose.

I think Ole is out of his depth by the way. I dont think he is the right manager irrespective of if we spent 300m in a summer or not
 
Random Task said:
I fully agree with Keane here.

The players we have at the club, by and large, are nowhere near good enough. It's just that simple.
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We have to begin judging OgS by his words though.

Multiple people on this forum called out this squad for being terribly assembled but OgS has claimed he was happy with it so he must be judged by it.

I like our youngsters & believe some could have careers here but to claim they are ready & not buy more ready players this season is something I’m going to judge OgS on.

We are at a point where Dan James, a left winger, is our first choice RW when everyone is fit [I rate Dan James btw] & his replacement is Andreas Pereira; I refuse to believe we couldn’t have bought a better RW than we currently have at the club & this is an issue in multiple positions.

We sold players, & those sold deserved to go but to not replace them is criminal & OgS should be held accountable for this.

You can’t change everything in one window, but we could have improve some attacking & midfield areas.
 
[QUOTE="StrettyEnder07, post: 24729937, member: 115586"]As proven he is a quite lazy[/QUOTE]
If he's lazy do you really want him out wide? He's not known for tracking back very vigorously! He's been fine centrally when he's played.
 
TheRedDevil2019 said:
I would argue some posters on here need to lower expectations. Title candidates? No. Top 4 candidates? No. Top 6 candidates? Yes, and here lies the problem. Certain posters have this self-clouded view that United should be at the top. The reality is that the club is no where near those levels due to years of mismanagement, poor decisions, a lack of strategy and vision to adhere to, and lastly too many egos on the playing side.

Ole is trying to sort this out, I'm not convinced he's the right man at this moment, but at least support what he's trying to do ffs. It's positive, respectful of the clubs attacking values and it WILL take time. (As in 2 or 3 transfer windows), it's frankly embarrassing that during every blip the same crowd come out to hurl abuse at the manager.

No manager in the world is going to work miracles with this lot atm. Once Ole has his playing team in place, judge him fairly then. Half the side is not even the team Ole wants that he has to field.
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Nobody's expecting United to be at the top, nobody's expecting them to challenge for titles. N-O-B-O-D-Y. In fact, there's not a single United fan out there who will argue that City and Liverpool aren't currently miles ahead of us. Not a fecking single one.

But...

With Chelsea having a transfer ban and a rookie manager at the helm, with Arsenal being in no man's land and with Spurs going through the motions (with a manager and certain players feeling that they have already peaked at this club), not being able to even challenge for a top-four spot is quite alarming to be honest. When these teams get their act together, where it will leave us? Most likely in a permanent state of mediocrity. That's why many people are voicing their concerns on this forum.

Frankly, there's been too many blips if we are to be honest here. Soon Solskjaer will be here for a whole year. And he has already had two transfer windows. I'm all for giving managers time but that precious time has to be earned. We are still paying top wages and we're getting meagre results in return. The latest contract renewals which have kept our wage budget high all have Solskjaer's acceptance. So, if the results are poor, he'll have to share a part of the blame.

This whole "rebuilding process" is nothing more than an excuse when it becomes a manager's last line of defence. It was all Moyes was talking about, it became LvG's mantra when he was failing and even the greatest short-terminist manager in the world used it too when he realized that he was achieving nothing at United. This squad, although a work in progress, still bears the mark of its manager. And although a lot of the deadwood has been kicked out of the club, this particular squad remains overrated by its own manager. Not by the fans, by Solskjaer himself who believed that he could trim it down to the bone and still meet his short term targets. And this is nothing but a bad omen for the near future of the club.
 
TheRedDevil2019 said:
I would argue some posters on here need to lower expectations. Title candidates? No. Top 4 candidates? No. Top 6 candidates? Yes, and here lies the problem. Certain posters have this self-clouded view that United should be at the top. The reality is that the club is no where near those levels due to years of mismanagement, poor decisions, a lack of strategy and vision to adhere to, and lastly too many egos on the playing side.

Ole is trying to sort this out, I'm not convinced he's the right man at this moment, but at least support what he's trying to do ffs. It's positive, respectful of the clubs attacking values and it WILL take time. (As in 2 or 3 transfer windows), it's frankly embarrassing that during every blip the same crowd come out to hurl abuse at the manager.

No manager in the world is going to work miracles with this lot atm. Once Ole has his playing team in place, judge him fairly then. Half the side is not even the team Ole wants that he has to field.
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We have lowered our expectations so much over the years that you would think we are some relegation fodder who are just happy to be in the Premier League. Is expecting us to finish TOP 4 too much to ask? No one is expecting us to challenge City and Liverpool, they are in a completely different universe compared to us. We are not asking Ole to work miracles with this team but surely he can do better than 5 wins out of 19 (including Astana...)? What can we challenge for having 25% win rate?
 
mu4c_20le said:
He also signed Matic and Sanchez, won zero silverware, and got embarrassed by Sevilla that year. The other, uglier side of the truth.
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No one is saying that it was a marriage made in heaven. Or that it worked out well.
However, Jose was by far the most successful manager since Sir Alex.
He said yesterday on Sky that he was not given time to bring through younger players and his signings had to have an immediate impact. And he notes that there has been a change in policy.
Don't forget that City were also after Alexis.
 
People are hung way to much on personel, us not replacing Lukaku isnt a big issuefor me if you actually know what you doin in final third, one spot 3 people, that should be fine. Midfield and RW on the other hand, oh boy.
 
R'hllor said:
People are hung way to much on personel, us not replacing Lukaku isnt a big issuefor me if you actually know what you doin in final third, one spot 3 people, that should be fine. Midfield and RW on the other hand, oh boy.
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well, I would kind of agree with you if we were just using our strikers for one spot, unfortunately we are using two of them to cover two sports which then only leads one striker spare who is a 17 tear old kid with bad tonsils
 
TsuWave said:
4 wins in 20 games. He has to go
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I'm not convinced any manager available could do better with the squad available.

If there was some world class coach waiting to join then great, but there isn't.

The injuries haven't been kind to us at all. He deserves a chance to get through this period.
 
red4ever 79 said:
well, I would kind of agree with you if we were just using our strikers for one spot, unfortunately we are using two of them to cover two sports which then only leads one striker spare who is a 17 tear old kid with bad tonsils
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Maybe now James has contributed we will only use one? Rashford could use a spell out of the side no matter what.
 
Oldyella said:
Maybe now James has contributed we will only use one? Rashford could use a spell out of the side no matter what.
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You see normally I would agree with you. That would be something normal right. James has done much better than Rashford on the left so should stay there. Knowing Utd, knowing Ole when Martial comes back we will go like this again. It's written in the stars. So many players being picked who shouldnt be near the team, and players being played out of position to accommodate others

Rashford Martial James
 
TRUERED89 said:
[QUOTE="StrettyEnder07, post: 24729937, member: 115586"]As proven he is a quite lazy
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If he's lazy do you really want him out wide? He's not known for tracking back very vigorously! He's been fine centrally when he's played.[/QUOTE]

Think he is far better out wide than up front personally, think he is far more suited to playing from the left than being the focal point of the side.

You disagree, all good, won't lose any sleep over it.

Much rather see someone like Callum Wilson signed who can finish, has superb movement, good with is head and both footed, far more suited to a No. 9 than Martial IMO.
 
Adam-Utd said:
I'm not convinced any manager available could do better with the squad available.

If there was some world class coach waiting to join then great, but there isn't.

The injuries haven't been kind to us at all. He deserves a chance to get through this period.
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So our team is so shit that can't beat Saints, Palace, Huddersfield and teams like that?
And who are world class managers right now? Klopp, Pep and who else? There are dozens of managers who we can hire or at least try to hire. Poch, Allegri, Tuchel, Ancelotti, Nagelsman, Howe, Favre, Ten Cate, Simeone, Rodgers, Southgate, Bielsa, Low, Benitez....
To be clear here, i am just throwing names here, i am not saying that all of them are available or good enough or that they would be success but that phrase "there are no managers out there" is wrong.
 
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