Ole Gunnar Solskjær | 2021/22 Discussion

[Jericholyte2]

From what I've seen of Chelsea this season, Lampard's style of play is not too dissimilar to that of Conte from last season - except Chelsea now appear to put more emphasis on attack - making it a relatively seamless transition for the squad as they did not need to adapt to a brand new, unfamiliar system.

That was not the case for Ole and the United squad. After five years of LVG and Jose indoctrinating a defensive mindset into players, Ole comes along and attempts to implement a very different tactical approach, one they were not prepared or conditioned to perform at a sustainable level. We looked like a team world-beaters when Ole first took charge, beating all and sundry plus making progress up the table and in Europe, before it fell apart when the player's poor conditioning took over, resulting in an injury crisis and a severe drop in results.

Ole has done what he can to remedy the problem by clearing out the deadwood and bringing in players who know how to play his system. That the three players brought in over summer have arguably been our best three performers is no coincidence, Ole knew they would perform as required. For me, this is a sign that he has a long-term plan set in place, he needs time to continue his conditioning of the existing squad of players and the resources to make additions where necessary.

Ole needs time and money. The fans need patience, a lot of patience.

I agree 100% with this. People so easily forget that footballers are actually people, not characters on Fifa or FM that they can tweak and modify at a whim. They are trained by the manager(s) to perform in a specific tactical approach according to the managers’ needs.

A good number of the current squad up until this summer had been with us since Fergie!

They had had Moyes, LVG and José all pulling them in different directions and by its very nature this creates instability in the squad and the tactics they adhere to. The most cohesive units are those that stick around, evolve and know exactly what their roles are. That was Fergie great achievement, transition between “Great Teams” with enough members of the former to instil that mindset into the future generation.

In the past six years we have had none of that! This is why, long term success or not I will be behind Ole, because that is what he gets. He brings it with himself, it’s why he brought Phelan back, it’s why Carrick has a prominent role and I’d imagine why Evra has been brought in to learn his badges with us. These are United people who will help to bring this back in to the squad.

This, combined with astute purchases and blooding of the right academy products, will bring us back to the top table. It might take a while but I have faith that we’ll get there.

 

[Kerry Donaghy]

The squad is just full of bang average players at the moment so for me, we could have Pep Guardiola in charge, it still wouldn't make a difference.

Part of the problem, in my opinion, is that we're that desperate for success that the minute someone has 2/3 decent matches for us, then the fans are hyping them up as if they're the next big thing.
Back when we were a great team, it would take a player to win 2 or 3 titles before we started calling them world class.

If you're telling a young player (e.g. Rashford, Martial, McTominay, Lingard) that they're already a world beater before theyve actually achieved anything great then they're just not going to have the same motivation to actually become great.

You need to find the balance between giving a player a vote of confidence and keeping their feet on the ground, we're not doing that.

Jesse Lingard gets paid £150,000 a week FFS! .
That pretty much sums up what I'm saying, of course he's going to think he's a world beater when he's earning that.

 

[Ludens the Red]

Your post highlights the significance of recent results which are short term. I'm not talking about results they have achieved, I'm talking about how both managers have imposed their will on their respective teams. How their will in essence provides the identity of the team, the philosophy which corresponds to a foundation to achieve success. Lampard has finished 6th with Derby and reached the play off final which would have given the club promotion in his first season as a manager. This eclipses anything Solskjaer has done from a competitive standpoint managerially. He's got Cardiff relegated and got the p45 the following season.

Solskjaer doesn't give this club enough of a directive both in coaching and from a managerial perspective. He doesn't offer anything by way of development for the team. The only element of success is strategically comprising a counter attacking system that relies on us not taking control of games and exposing opposition mistakes. Something Mourinho supported and got slaughtered by fans for.

Solskjaer has been in charge for almost 8 months now and where are we headed ? What is the long term aspirations, how do we define future success under Ole a top four finish or challenging for the league ? This club is an elite club, therefore we need success on the pitch to correspond with the standard. Can any fan in their right mind say to themselves that in three years Solskjaer will challenge for a league title ? To me this is something that will never happen, that is my biased opinion, if I wish Solskjaer could then that defines hope but Ole has given us fans nothing from a rational standpoint to back him without any consideration.

This bit a bit nonsense to be fair. “Which would have given them promotion”... but he didn’t, they didn’t. And how does finishing 6th with Derby (fourth time they’ve done that in six years btw) in the championship eclipse Ole winning Molde’s first league title ever. Cardiff were on their way down by time he took over and since that season they’ve spent a grand total of one year in the premier league.... and were soundly relegated.
I’m not an Ole super fan and I’m still massively on the fence with him but that bit youve posted to disparage Ole is crap.

 

[3KDré]

Seems like the players are mentally changing under his reign, which will take a lot more time I reckon. Glad to hear we are focussed more on ourselves than the opposition too.

 

[charlenefan]

Sky threw up a stat earlier that since December 1st only Liverpool and City have won more points than us, so under Ole we're still the best of the rest get in!!!

 

[Mainoldo]

It's passes per defensive action. How quickly you win the ball back.

Cool stat then! The recovery time is important. We just need to work on what to do when we have the ball except give it right back.

 

[RedCurry]

Surprised we're ahead of Liverpool and Spurs in the pressing department.

The only issue is being able to sustain this level of intensity throughout the season. We all saw what happened at the end of last season when the players burned out due to poor conditioning. The extra fitness work Ole had the players do in pre-season should help with that though.

Maybe because they have lesser need to press since they can keep possession of the ball better?

 

[fergiesarmy1]

Maybe because they have lesser need to press since they can keep possession of the ball better?

Last seasons champions league finalists keep the ball better than a team just about to enter the europa cup.

I’m shocked

 

[VJ1762]

So true.

 

[Amarsdd]

Maybe because they have lesser need to press since they can keep possession of the ball better?

The stat has nothing to do with keeping possession. PPDA i.e. passess per defensive action (interceptions, successful tackles, failed tackles, and fouls) just shows how proactive the team is out of possession defensively.

 

[RedCurry]

The stat has nothing to do with keeping possession. PPDA i.e. passess per defensive action (interceptions, successful tackles, failed tackles, and fouls) just shows how proactive the team is out of possession defensively.

You can’t intercept, tackle or foul the other team when you have possession of the ball.

Edit: I do still find our stat very impressive.

 

[roonster09]

Maybe because they have lesser need to press since they can keep possession of the ball better?

That stat has nothing to do with possession. It's about how many passes opponents play before the defensive action by defending team.

 

[roonster09]

You can’t intercept, tackle or foul the other team when you have possession of the ball.

Edit: I do still find our stat very impressive.

It's not number of presses per game. It's number of passes before defensive action. So possession doesn't mean anything.

 

[haram]

So the opponent makes 8.30 passes before we recover the ball? I don't understand, depending on the context of the game opposition teams might need fewer passes to cut through us anyway?

 

[RedCurry]

That stat has nothing to do with possession. It's about how many passes opponents play before the defensive action by defending team.

I understand the stat. Numerator is number of passes by opponent, denominator is sum of defensive actions including tackles, fouls, etc. Your denominator will be far lower if you keep the ball 70% of the times like City does. Pep has spoken about how his team doesn’t practice tackling in defense.

This stat could be improved by giving the ball away a lot and immediately trying to recover the ball, whether successful or not(since fouls are included in denominator).

 

[roonster09]

I understand the stat. Numerator is number of passes by opponent, denominator is sum of defensive actions including tackles, fouls, etc. Your denominator will be far lower if you keep the ball 70% of the times like City does. Pep has spoken about how his team doesn’t practice tackling in defense.

This stat could be improved by giving the ball away a lot and immediately trying to recover the ball, whether successful or not(since fouls are included in denominator).

If you keep the ball for 70% then numerator will also be lower. That's why usually the teams will more possession leads this stat.

We are also 5th in possession table, below City, Liverpool, Spurs and Everton.

 

[RedCurry]

If you keep the ball for 70% then numerator will also be lower. That's why usually the teams will more possession leads this stat.

We are also 5th in possession table, below City, Liverpool, Spurs and Everton.

You’re obviously right about that. I think generally this is a very interesting stat but it should be used in conjunction with possession to give the full picture. I’d assume that high possession and low PPGA would have very high correlation with success.

 

[haram]

If you keep the ball for 70% then numerator will also be lower. That's why usually the teams will more possession leads this stat.

We are also 5th in possession table, below City, Liverpool, Spurs and Everton.

Maybe a separate point but is that not more to do with the fact teams will let us have the ball and sit because we cannot break them down? Not because we retain possession well in key areas...

 

[roonster09]

You’re obviously right about that. I think generally this is a very interesting stat but it should be used in conjunction with possession to give the full picture. I’d assume that high possession and low PPGA would have very high correlation with success.

I think it's the opposite way. You will have more possession even you don't let your opponents have the ball. For that you to happen you should win the ball very quickly.

What you said is also true. Hopefully that account posts complete table, so we can check that.

 

[anant]

FYI: its possession gained in opposition half, so that makes the number more impressive

 

[RedCurry]

I think it's the opposite way. You will have more possession even you don't let your opponents have the ball. For that you to happen you should win the ball very quickly.

What you said is also true. Hopefully that account posts complete table, so we can check that.

I’d say that under LVG, we had very high possession but no urgency to win the ball back and would therefore expect our PPGA to be much worse than current City or Liverpool.

 

[roonster09]

I’d say that under LVG, we had very high possession but no urgency to win the ball back and would therefore expect our PPGA to be much worse than current City or Liverpool.

Last season till Jan

 

[RedCurry]

Last season till Jan

Again, our position in that table means nothing until you tell me that we went many games with less than 50% possession. Which then most likely points to the fact that under Jose, we played with two low blocks inviting opposition into our half almost unchallenged. While we’re midtable due to us having some dominant games randomly, so it seems.

Possession again is all the context with this stat.

 

[roonster09]

Again, our position in that table means nothing until you tell me that we went many games with less than 50% possession. Which then most likely points to the fact that under Jose, we played with two low blocks inviting opposition into our half almost unchallenged. While we’re midtable due to us having some dominant games randomly, so it seems.

Possession again is all the context with this stat.

Look who is leading the table. The team with highest possession. 4/5 are the teams the have good possession stats. Only Chelsea are the exception in that table, ranking so low.

 

[anant]

Again, our position in that table means nothing until you tell me that we went many games with less than 50% possession. Which then most likely points to the fact that under Jose, we played with two low blocks inviting opposition into our half almost unchallenged. While we’re midtable due to us having some dominant games randomly, so it seems.

Possession again is all the context with this stat.

They are independent metrics. The only conclusion you can draw from combining the 2 metrics is possibly ball retention in the opposition half and even that would be assuming the ratio of fouls/total defensive actions is same for every side.

Think about it this way, we have 60% possession, while it means that opponents may be making lesser passes, it also means the chances of us making an interception/tackle is lesser. We are still allowing opponent to hold onto the ball less than our Big 6 rivals. Additionaly, the metric is calculated for only the passes and defensive actions in our opponent's defensive half. This would mean we are playing a great proportion of the game in our opponent's half and are pushing them back, which we have as well.

As far as your point is concerned (assuming a standard ratio of forward to backward and sideeays passes), High pressing and high possession in opponent half= winning ball back early and stringing together passes successfully ; High pressing and low possession= winning ball quick but losing it early as well
Edit: 2nd scenario is nearly improbable. No team presses high without having ability to retain the ball for obvious reasons

 

[Kurton]

3 of our 4 goals against Chelsa, Martials goal against Wolves, James against Crystal Palace, James against Southampton. Essentially the two individual brilliances we've relied on for goals are our two penalties.

Maybe you're struggling with the same illness that Wenger had during his career at Arsenal, kept saying he didn't see anything.

It's funny you refer to goals against Chelsea who were so open. The goal against Wolves I agree is great teamwork, which is why I mentioned the Wolves game was an exception, we deserved to win which is not a surprise seeing the shambles Wolves are this season. James's goals are exactly what I would describe as individual brilliance, superb strikes that no keeper would do anything about. Also not to mention the Palace goal came at the last minute and we could do f**k all till them.

Remind me how many goals have we scored in each match after the Chelsea game? I'd probably advise you lay off whatever stuff you are having, think it's causing visions of things that don't exist.

This season it hasn't happened once. Didn't sit back to soak up pressure after going up against Chelsea, Wolves , Southampton or Leicester.

Where are goals to show for it then, should've scored one more goal in at least in one match. It's quite a consistency to score 1 goal every game, sort of thing Mourinho would be abused for.

It rarely is.

Check 2nd sentence of my first reply.

So there's a visible style, like the one i've mentioned as an example, where we're pressing as a team higher up the pitch to win the ball back in order to catch the opponent when they're not in balance, and you can't see us playing as a team Mint.

Here's a quick example of us not playing as a team

I don't know how to make you understand. You can plan to press all you want, but if the opposition is giving you the ball, who are you going to press? Seems simple thing to understand, but perhaps not for you.

And that video link, what point are you trying to prove?

You were the one that moaned about there having been a focus on fitness, there needed to be one, in order to improve our overall fitness and in order to implement a more attacking strategy. It takes time, it took Klopp ages to understand how to balance Liverpool correctly. Given the quality of your posts, it wouldn't exactly be much of a surprise if you fail to understand that one summer isn't going to fix everything.

I said all focus is on just fitness and not on coaching patterns of play. Fitness should have been there, given there was an entire pre-season for it. It doesn't take months to build up fitness, planned fitness regime for a few weeks is enough. Our players are not obese. Klopp did not take years just to build the fitness levels of his team, it took years to improve quality to be able to compete. Since Klopp Liverpool have been playing high press. Please think before you write rubbish.

Again I mentioned I do not expect us to play like City or Liverpool or win anything. But the coaching should be visible after 8 months or so he's been here. I want Ole to succeed but it's not looking likely. Perhaps its the coaching team, but we need to improve on that.

 

[RedCurry]

They are independent metrics. The only conclusion you can draw from combining the 2 metrics is possibly ball retention in the opposition half and even that would be assuming the ratio of fouls/total defensive actions is same for every side.

Think about it this way, we have 60% possession, while it means that opponents may be making lesser passes, it also means the chances of us making an interception/tackle is lesser. We are still allowing opponent to hold onto the ball less than our Big 6 rivals. Additionaly, the metric is calculated for only the passes and defensive actions in our opponent's defensive half. This would mean we are playing a great proportion of the game in our opponent's half and are pushing them back, which we have as well.

As far as your point is concerned (assuming a standard ratio of forward to backward and sideeays passes), High pressing and high possession in opponent half= winning ball back early and stringing together passes successfully ; High pressing and low possession= winning ball quick but losing it early as well
Edit: 2nd scenario is nearly improbable. No team presses high without having ability to retain the ball for obvious reasons

But I believe, even before looking at any stats, that second scenario that you listed is close enough to what we do. It requires much more effort than if you could retain the ball as you would naturally need to press lesser. This could eventually lead to massive fatigue and the mid-season would prove to be brutal for us.

Look who is leading the table. The team with highest possession. 4/5 are the teams the have good possession stats. Only Chelsea are the exception in that table, ranking so low.

Fair enough. That City side was intense in winning the ball by hook or crook.

 

[UncleBob]

It's funny you refer to goals against Chelsea who were so open. The goal against Wolves I agree is great teamwork, which is why I mentioned the Wolves game was an exception, we deserved to win which is not a surprise seeing the shambles Wolves are this season. James's goals are exactly what I would describe as individual brilliance, superb strikes that no keeper would do anything about. Also not to mention the Palace goal came at the last minute and we could do f**k all till them.

For your sake i hope you're on a WUM here. Your argument, which i responded to, was: rely on individual brilliance to get goals. Which is obviously false, apart from our penalties we've more or less only scored goals that are due to great combinations between several players. We're not arguing if the Chelsea match was open or not, it obviously was, but how the goals were created. How on earth is this simply individual brilliance ?


or from : 0:42 against Crystal Palace:

Remind me how many goals have we scored in each match after the Chelsea game? I'd probably advise you lay off whatever stuff you are having, think it's causing visions of things that don't exist.

Last time i checked, the debate was how we've scored or goals with you claiming it's been down to individual brilliance, not the amount of goals we've scored.

Where are goals to show for it then, should've scored one more goal in at least in one match. It's quite a consistency to score 1 goal every game, sort of thing Mourinho would be abused for.

Lack of goals doesn't have to signal lack of intent. Again, try to stick to what you're actually arguing instead of continually making things up. Your claim was that we've generally sat back after going up, we haven't.

Check 2nd sentence of my first reply.

It's shit, reading it again seems rather pointless.

I don't know how to make you understand. You can plan to press all you want, but if the opposition is giving you the ball, who are you going to press? Seems simple thing to understand, but perhaps not for you.

And that video link, what point are you trying to prove?

Do you have any examples of the opposition just giving us the ball ? Our pressing rate disagrees with your claim.

The video is just one, of many, examples of how we're attacking as a team.

I said all focus is on just fitness and not on coaching patterns of play.

Any substantial information, perhaps a link, to back this claim up ?

Fitness should have been there, given there was an entire pre-season for it. It doesn't take months to build up fitness, planned fitness regime for a few weeks is enough. Our players are not obese.

Priceless.

Klopp did not take years just to build the fitness levels of his team, it took years to improve quality to be able to compete. Since Klopp Liverpool have been playing high press. Please think before you write rubbish.

I'll quote myself here, since you're obviously far too ignorant. it took Klopp ages to understand how to balance Liverpool correctly.
During the first few years the players struggled to maintain the high pressing throughout the season, cost them badly in the 16/17 season,between January 1st and february 27th they played 12 matches, 2 wins, 4 draws and 6 losses. Stark contrast to 17 wins, 4 draws and 2 losses in the first half of the season. It took a long time for the players to get up to the required level, combined with Klopp having to adjust his approach to make sure they'd be able to cope over the course of an entire season.

 

[OrcaFat]

It's funny you refer to goals against Chelsea who were so open. The goal against Wolves I agree is great teamwork, which is why I mentioned the Wolves game was an exception, we deserved to win which is not a surprise seeing the shambles Wolves are this season. James's goals are exactly what I would describe as individual brilliance, superb strikes that no keeper would do anything about. Also not to mention the Palace goal came at the last minute and we could do f**k all till them.

Remind me how many goals have we scored in each match after the Chelsea game? I'd probably advise you lay off whatever stuff you are having, think it's causing visions of things that don't exist.


Where are goals to show for it then, should've scored one more goal in at least in one match. It's quite a consistency to score 1 goal every game, sort of thing Mourinho would be abused for.


Check 2nd sentence of my first reply.


I don't know how to make you understand. You can plan to press all you want, but if the opposition is giving you the ball, who are you going to press? Seems simple thing to understand, but perhaps not for you.

And that video link, what point are you trying to prove?


I said all focus is on just fitness and not on coaching patterns of play. Fitness should have been there, given there was an entire pre-season for it. It doesn't take months to build up fitness, planned fitness regime for a few weeks is enough. Our players are not obese. Klopp did not take years just to build the fitness levels of his team, it took years to improve quality to be able to compete. Since Klopp Liverpool have been playing high press. Please think before you write rubbish.

Again I mentioned I do not expect us to play like City or Liverpool or win anything. But the coaching should be visible after 8 months or so he's been here. I want Ole to succeed but it's not looking likely. Perhaps its the coaching team, but we need to improve on that.

Not convinced by any of that to be fair. I agree with UncleBob. The goal in the video is a good team goal with the positive qualities we’ve shown, at times, this season. All problems solved? Not yet. Improving team? Definitely, and coaching (and player acquisition) is largely responsible.

I’m talking generally now but it must be painful to not see the good and not feel optimistic - but each to their own.

 

[He'sRaldo]

One question I have is, the 4-3-3 we initially tore up the league with when he first came in... was that his formation or one of the other coaches?


I assumed it was his, but now he's been playing with this 4-2-3-1, which maybe suggests that initially he just took advice from our coaches as to the players' best formation and positions, and now he's trying to instill his own.


I hope that's not the case, as I really think that 4-3-3 was the best formation for our best players, especially Pogba who showed Balon d'Or form until being asked to start deep. I wonder if we will ever go back to it.

 

[Dante]

One question I have is, the 4-3-3 we initially tore up the league with when he first came in... was that his formation or one of the other coaches?


I assumed it was his, but now he's been playing with this 4-2-3-1, which maybe suggests that initially he just took advice from our coaches as to the players' best formation and positions, and now he's trying to instill his own.


I hope that's not the case, as I really think that 4-3-3 was the best formation for our best players, especially Pogba who showed Balon d'Or form until being asked to start deep. I wonder if we will ever go back to it.

It was pretty much Jose's formation before he fell out with Pogba (with Lukaku swapped out for Rashford).

Ole came in, undid Mourinho's latter mistakes, and put a more dynamic presence at CF. But most of Mourinho's structures were retained.

When a manager takes over midseason, it's difficult to switchsystem and style straight away. Solskjaer's aim was primarily to rebuild morale, then implement changes gradually. Unfortunately, everything went to shit after PSG so that couldn't happen until preseason.

I think this season is looking a lot better, tbh. Our general play is much better. We've just lacked some of the enthusiasm of January and February.

 

[AshRK]

It is funny how one week it is Lampard who is better than Ole, then Rodgers becomes better and when next week Arsneal beat Villa at home Emery will again become a great manager. Truth is there is hardly much difference between all of them. Taking nothing away from Lampard but Wolves were absolutely crap this weekend, which is funny how many always say Nuno is the next best thing but suddenly no one bats an eye after he lost 5-2. The amount of direspect Ole gets here is astounding. Yes he is no pep or klopp or even poch but he is also no glorified cheerleader like some think he is.

 

[He'sRaldo]

It was pretty much Jose's formation before he fell out with Pogba (with Lukaku swapped out for Rashford).

Ole came in, undid Mourinho's latter mistakes, and put a more dynamic presence at CF. But most of Mourinho's structures were retained.

When a manager takes over midseason, it's difficult to switchsystem and style straight away. Solskjaer's aim was primarily to rebuild morale, then implement changes gradually. Unfortunately, everything went to shit after PSG so that couldn't happen until preseason.

I think this season is looking a lot better, tbh. Our general play is much better. We've just lacked some of the enthusiasm of January and February.

Could be. Jose played with a 4-3-3 that season, although the style was completely different from what Ole showed.


I agree that this season is looking better than last, but I'm sure we can make it even better by playing our players in their best positions, a mistake that Jose made as well.


Pogba is an attacking central mid, Scott is a box-to-box mid, and Lingard/ Pereira/ Mata are bench options. So that means at any given time, 2 of our 3 first choice midfielders are shoehorned, and the 3rd is a bench option; also with the added bonus of pushing our wide threats wider to accommodate said bench option, instead of holding a narrower position as they would in a front 3. I don't think that will end well, which is why I'm not a fan of the 4-2-3-1.


If we play them the right way, I don't see why we can't hit something close to the form we had before, especially Pogba. It's so clear he's more effective higher up, and he's a genuine match-winner, so it doesn't make sense to shoe-horn him.

 

[Kush]

I have massive doubts about Ole but this Lampard cock-sucking is way OTT, if I were to sum his side up it would be 'naive'. They look easy on the eye and play attacking footie but there's no semblance of balance in their side.

 

[Kurton]

For your sake i hope you're on a WUM here. Your argument, which i responded to, was: rely on individual brilliance to get goals. Which is obviously false, apart from our penalties we've more or less only scored goals that are due to great combinations between several players. We're not arguing if the Chelsea match was open or not, it obviously was, but how the goals were created. How on earth is this simply individual brilliance ?

Last time i checked, the debate was how we've scored or goals with you claiming it's been down to individual brilliance, not the amount of goals we've scored.

Lack of goals doesn't have to signal lack of intent. Again, try to stick to what you're actually arguing instead of continually making things up. Your claim was that we've generally sat back after going up, we haven't.

It's shit, reading it again seems rather pointless.

Do you have any examples of the opposition just giving us the ball ? Our pressing rate disagrees with your claim.

The video is just one, of many, examples of how we're attacking as a team.

Any substantial information, perhaps a link, to back this claim up ?



Priceless.



I'll quote myself here, since you're obviously far too ignorant. it took Klopp ages to understand how to balance Liverpool correctly.
During the first few years the players struggled to maintain the high pressing throughout the season, cost them badly in the 16/17 season,between January 1st and february 27th they played 12 matches, 2 wins, 4 draws and 6 losses. Stark contrast to 17 wins, 4 draws and 2 losses in the first half of the season. It took a long time for the players to get up to the required level, combined with Klopp having to adjust his approach to make sure they'd be able to cope over the course of an entire season.

I'm tired of quoting your stupid replies, so I'm going to write one reply.

You keep posting videos of goals that show nothing. It also shows other teams also scoring similar team goals, sometimes more goals than us. If we were well coached, we'd have been doing that more often.

Number of goals scored is important because, one that shows if we are really effective in attack, and secondly we are not relying on individual brilliance. It rarely happens that there are several individuals scoring 2 or more goals on their own. If as you are saying we are this great pressing attacking team, then surely we should be able to score more than 1 goal against teams that sit deep.

This debate is going like this:
me: I don't see what Ole is building
you: we are pressing and winning ball back higher
me: but what do we do after that or against teams that sit back
you: we are not fit enough to do much after that

What the f**k does fitness have to do anything about moving the ball in the final half. Against teams that sit back, you need guile and passing to open defenses. What will you do with fitness, you can only run till goal line. You are just going on and on about we press, we win the ball higher. We don't even need to do that much against most teams. Just check the possession stats for f**k sake.

Lack of goals does signal a lack of coaching to attack. How do you explain higher passing number from Leicester?

What the f**k does it even mean to balance Liverpool, is Klopp using some gyroscope or something? In Klopp's initial years, they had problems because the squad was small. Now he has squad big enough to keep up the pressing style.

I have a simple question for you. If it was not Ole and another manager, would you accept that points per match has been 1.07 since his appointment? I'm not calling for Ole to be sacked, but some reality would help as well as some coaching. And you can shove your green smileys up your a**e, it only shows you don't have anything to argue.

 

[BeforeKeanetherewasRobson]

Not convinced by any of that to be fair. I agree with UncleBob. The goal in the video is a good team goal with the positive qualities we’ve shown, at times, this season. All problems solved? Not yet. Improving team? Definitely, and coaching (and player acquisition) is largely responsible.

I’m talking generally now but it must be painful to not see the good and not feel optimistic - but each to their own.

It's weird.

There are WUMs but their posts tend to be simplistic "Ole is crap", "Ole is inexperienced" but this guy and a lot of others seem to go to massive lengths and post detailed arguments just to try and prove something overly negative.

As you said.... is everything great? No. Are we making some positive progress? Yes.

If I was that negative, I think I'd take up a different pastime.

 

[Andycoleno9]

I have massive doubts about Ole but this Lampard cock-sucking is way OTT, if I were to sum his side up it would be 'naive'. They look easy on the eye and play attacking footie but there's no semblance of balance in their side.

Liverpool game will say a lot about him. I am curiozs will he adaot to Liverpool or play on his way

 

[UncleBob]

I'm tired of quoting your stupid replies, so I'm going to write one reply.

You keep posting videos of goals that show nothing. It also shows other teams also scoring similar team goals, sometimes more goals than us. If we were well coached, we'd have been doing that more often.

Number of goals scored is important because, one that shows if we are really effective in attack, and secondly we are not relying on individual brilliance. It rarely happens that there are several individuals scoring 2 or more goals on their own. If as you are saying we are this great pressing attacking team, then surely we should be able to score more than 1 goal against teams that sit deep.

This debate is going like this:
me: I don't see what Ole is building
you: we are pressing and winning ball back higher
me: but what do we do after that or against teams that sit back
you: we are not fit enough to do much after that

What the f**k does fitness have to do anything about moving the ball in the final half. Against teams that sit back, you need guile and passing to open defenses. What will you do with fitness, you can only run till goal line. You are just going on and on about we press, we win the ball higher. We don't even need to do that much against most teams. Just check the possession stats for f**k sake.

Lack of goals does signal a lack of coaching to attack. How do you explain higher passing number from Leicester?

What the f**k does it even mean to balance Liverpool, is Klopp using some gyroscope or something? In Klopp's initial years, they had problems because the squad was small. Now he has squad big enough to keep up the pressing style.

I have a simple question for you. If it was not Ole and another manager, would you accept that points per match has been 1.07 since his appointment? I'm not calling for Ole to be sacked, but some reality would help as well as some coaching. And you can shove your green smileys up your a**e, it only shows you don't have anything to argue.

Easiest ignore so far, save your strawman arguments for someone else. For the sake of the forum lets just hope you never get promoted.

 

[UncleBob]

It's weird.

There are WUMs but their posts tend to be simplistic "Ole is crap", "Ole is inexperienced" but this guy and a lot of others seem to go to massive lengths and post detailed arguments just to try and prove something overly negative.

As you said.... is everything great? No. Are we making some positive progress? Yes.

If I was that negative, I think I'd take up a different pastime.

If only...

I don't mind different opinions, especially if there's some actual thought behind it.

 

[Kurton]

Easiest ignore so far, save your strawman arguments for someone else. For the sake of the forum lets just hope you never get promoted.

Doesn't matter you put me on ignore, I'd rather not debate with judgemental people like you. You say you don't mind different opinions, but then you start a debate with someone with personal attacks telling what it says about the person only from their post just because they don't agree with you.

Then again, that says more about the person saying it rather than it does about the current state of United. It's perfectly fine that we aren't at the level we aspire to be at, but actually not being able to idenfity the changes is a bit weird. I mean, the easiest thing to point out is the difference in approach, how we're generally standing higher up the pitch and try to win the ball back by collective pressure, plenty of great examples of that vs Leicester. That we currently don't have enough quality to take immediate advantage when we win the ball back is obvious, but what we're trying to do is the important thing.

Can't be a bigger hypocrite if I tried. At least learn to not judge people and start assuming things.