Ole Gunnar Solskjær | 2021/22 Discussion

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I’ve said before Rome wasn’t built in a day....people need to cut some slack as expectations are just not realistic

Let’s look at the positives....

  • All 3 summer signings have been very good AND are all cemented in our 1st X1
  • All 3 signings have joined for the right reason - rather than the mercenaries we’ve been signing in the past few years
  • We have addressed the shocking defensive frailties of last season - it’s not perfect yet but it’s ALREADY way better than before
  • If you think Ole just goes for team and tactics on his own then you are foolish - he has a good team around him in Phelen and Carrick and he listens to them - rather than the egotistical opinionated managers of recent times
  • He’s managed to get some negativity away from the club - there is more to go but removing Sanchez and Lukaku are key to team/squad harmony
  • We seem to be trying to play a better style so far this season - we have more effort although creativity is still lacking
For those old enough - when Fergie came in he identified and got rid of the troublesome players - Paul McGrath, Norman Whiteside etc - players that would undermine his plan/vision - nobody in those early Fergie years thought he would be successful - he was given time to change the ethos and get the right players in and develop the style he wanted - it took 5 years to get anywhere!

I’m not saying Ole is a Pep or a Klopp - but we’ve got to support him - if we can now look to address midfield and attacking frailties then we are not so far away from a decent team.

Let’s look at the positives of what’s been achieved so far - the weight of expectation is immense in this job and calling for his head every 5 minutes or saying this person or that person is better doesn’t change anything.

He is here for the foreseeable so we need to accept that and support it - he’s had 1 transfer window so far and he did better in that than we’ve done since fergie left so there is a lot more hope going forward!
 
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Where does this myth of you need 3 years just to reconditioning a player to play certain style.

Managers comes and go at any other football clubs, I don't see them grinding to a halt just because the "new manager" needs to recondition their team. Many managers has taken over from Moyes, LVG, Jose at their previous club, you don't see them crying about players not up to speed. Especially not 8 months after.
What is Solskjaer 'crying about'?

We haven't 'ground to a halt'. What are you talking about?
 
I’ve said before Rome wasn’t built in a day....people need to cut some slack as expectations are just not realistic

Let’s look at the positives....

  • All 3 summer signings have been very good AND are all cemented in our 1st X1
  • All 3 signings have joined for the right reason - rather than the mercenaries we’ve been signing in the past few years
  • We have addressed the shocking defensive frailties of last season - it’s not perfect yet but it’s ALREADY way better than before
  • If you think Ole just goes for team and tactics on his own then you are foolish - he has a good team around him in Phelen and Carrick and he listens to them - rather than the egotistical opinionated managers of recent times
  • He’s managed to get some negativity away from the club - there is more to go but removing Sanchez and Lukaku are key to team/squad harmony
  • We seem to be trying to play a better style so far this season - we have more effort although creativity is still lacking
For those old enough - when Fergie came in he identified and got rid of the troublesome players - Paul McGrath, Norman Whiteside etc - players that would undermine his plan/vision - nobody in those early Fergie years thought he would be successful - he was given time to change the ethos and get the right players in and develop the style he wanted - it took 5 years to get anywhere!

I’m not saying Ole is a Pep or a Klopp - but we’ve got to support him - if we can now look to address midfield and attacking frailties then we are not so far away from a decent team.

Let’s look at the positives of what’s been achieved so far - the weight of expectation is immense in this job and calling for his head every 5 minutes or saying this person or that person is better doesn’t change anything.

He is here for the foreseeable so we need to accept that and support it - he’s had 1 transfer window so far and he did better in that than we’ve done since fergie left so there is a lot more hope going forward!
Really nice post. Feels good to read a post that is positive once in a while.
 
Exactly. I am confused also about that. Conte's Inter already playing like his team. And he even changed complete system( from 433 to 352) from how they played last year. Bloody hell, people react here like we have total dross of a team.

Well ,minor 3 or 4 individuals, we sort of have.
 
More positives than negatives so far this season. We are controlling games fairly well. If Ole and staff can get this team into the habit of killing games off when in control then for me it will be job very well done this season, and we will finish top 4 for certain.
 
We don’t play possession football. Well we do but with no sense. So we just give it the opposition back to allow us to be able to score a goal.

Yes, because the goals we have conceded have been from us handing possession over?

Wolves away - Corner second ball
Palace - One Goal Kick and one possession loss
Southampton - Corner second ball
 
More positives than negatives so far this season. We are controlling games fairly well. If Ole and staff can get this team into the habit of killing games off when in control then for me it will be job very well done this season, and we will finish top 4 for certain.

Sorry, cannot agree with this. And I would if I genuinally could. I have not seen us control many games at all... we have had periods in matches where we are the dominant side, but controlling games?

None of our results or performances have been a suprise. None. Chelsea were better than us in the first half, and fell apart. We were v clinical in taking advantage of that, and this is to be commended. But we didn't control the game. We didn't control the Palace game; nor the Southampton game; the Wolves game, again, from a dominant period, they were better than us second half, and we end up holding on. That's not controlling much at all. the game on Sat was rather uninspiring from both teams.

This season, to me, is pretty much the same as how things ended last season. We are struggling to define ourselves as a team. The three signings have had a huge impact, and that's welcome. They have given us some fresh energy, without all the baggage of recent seasons. But we aren't in control of much when I watch us. City control games. Spurs at times control games. Liverpool control games.
 
Wolves did not outplay us the last time we played them. They managed a 1-1 draw on their own ground which involved United missing a penalty and several other good chances, while Wolves barely managed a meaningful attack.

It has nothing to do with anything, but you are deliberately making up complete and utter lies in order to slag your own manager off. You're either a wind up or a complete idiot.

If you want to be critical try sticking to either facts or opinion, rather than pure inventionism. Otherwise you might as well just start pretending we don't win when we do



Not getting Derby promoted doesn't eclipse anyone else's achievement, because it isn't an achievement. Derby were perfectly capable of missing out on promotion before Lampard arrived. It's no more an achievement than Ole nearly managing to drag a dead in the water United team to 4th place, actually. If anything the later was more impressive. Derby were a consistent playoff contender before Lampard was manager. United were on course to finish about 9th when Ole took over.

Mourinho got slaughtered by people for not being entertaining enough, except this started out when we were winning 4-0 nearly every other week, so was another bizarre argument. He also abandoned counter attack tactics for bringing on tall players and sitting hopefully on narrow leads while punting the ball aimlessly up the pitch. Something I am yet to see under Ole, and also know that I wont see, because it is very easy to see what Ole's tactics and directives are if you aren't just pretending not to see them to support a stupid argument.

The last paragraph applies exactly the same to Lampard and could even apply to an actual proven manager like Pochettino, who will not mount a title challenge this year despite investing heavily in a squad he's shaped over 4 years now. If you want to hold Ole to the same standards as you would anyone else, that's fine, but it isn't what you are doing. You are holding him to a completely different standard to other managers and then using that as a stick to beat him with. You are not going to give him a chance, which is a strange position to take since he has already been appointed as manager.



Well actually this is quite funny because I watch and sometimes go to both Chelsea and Derby games due to my dad being a Chelsea fan, and most of my family living in Derby, and actually, they do not play the exact same way at all. Lampard's Chelsea tend to come flying out of the blocks and hope to give themselves enough of a lead to sit on before they run out of puff. Derby did not do this at all. Their passing style was very different. They were more progressive, and frankly a lot of the time, not actually very good and a bit clueless looking. The best I saw them play under Lampard was against United. Mount orchestrated the midfield for them. For Chelsea, Jorginho does this. From the differences in how each team plays my guess would be Lampard leaves the tactical side somewhat to his other coaches and the players he has at his disposal, and how they were coached by the previous manager, which I would argue isn't that stupid of him while he's finding his feet...but basically you're talking complete bollocks. You are just making stuff up.

Just to clarify, Ole took a more difficult job than Lampard last season in more difficult circumstances and, at worst, made a comparably impressive fist of it. This season Chelsea sit below United, having lost 4-0, to United. They failed to beat the worst team in the league in their last home game. They were played off the park by and failed to beat the same team United beat in a largely untroubled manner just yesterday. Some of their football is nice to watch, but they were coached last season by a manager who DOES know how to coach attacking movement. United were coached by Mourinho, who pretty much gave up on even attacking at all. I actually like Lampard, in the long term he might do well...but there is no grounds to claim you know he is a better coach than Solksjaer. It is like me telling you I know Greenwood will turn out to be a better player than Hudson-Odoi...there is nowhere near enough to go on to make any kiond of intelligent conclusion, and only way I can make an argument for it is by making up some complete bullshit and hoping it comes true.

I'm not sure what you're here for other than to make dishonest arguments and then accuse other people of doing the same thing. I mean there are perfectly understandable reasons to have reservations about whether Ole can be succesful at United...you've abandoned them in favour of aggressive line nonsense arguments.
Honestly, the hero worship for Lampard on this thread by some is fecking weird. The man took a Derby team who finished 6th the season before, to... 6th. And that too with a bunch of Chelsea youth thrown in for good measure.
 
This season, to me, is pretty much the same as how things ended last season. We are struggling to define ourselves as a team. The three signings have had a huge impact, and that's welcome. They have given us some fresh energy, without all the baggage of recent seasons

That sentence on its own contradicts itself.

How can we be the same as last season yet have fresh energy / without baggage.

Liverpool control games once they go a goal or two up.

We have looked alot better this season than we did at the end of last, where we kept conceding chances.
 
Or the reply says about the person who wants to see things that are not there.

What am i seeing that's not there, what exactly did i write that's incorrect ? Is it that complicated to quote a sentence and point out what you interpret as incorrect ?

You say as if we press and win the ball back the whole game. We seem to lose steam after 20 mins of the game.

Actually, this is what i've said: how we're generally standing higher up the pitch and try to win the ball back by collective pressure

You've somehow managed to interpret it as me saying we press and win the ball back the whole game, weird.

And no, we've barely lost steam after 20 mins this season, why do you keep making things up ? It's perfectly normal that the flow of the game will change, opposing managers do tend to switch things around in order to compensate.

What's the point of pressure if we do not know what to do after we win the ball. There seems to be just one pattern of play, win the ball and hit on the counter. It seems there is too much emphasis on fitness than patterns of play. It should be pretty clear to see that as most wins have come against teams who like to play. Against teams who defend deep, we are toothless.

We have enough quality in the team to beat the likes of Palace and Southampton, but if the players are not coached well, we'll have more of the ones we've seen against the lesser teams. The team is less than the sum of its parts, and that's on coaching.

You initially claimed that there was no visible style, now you're complaining that there's only one style. We do know what to do with the ball when we win it after pressing high, we try to move it quickly in order to take advantage of any oppositional players out of position / opposition not in balance. Sometimes it work, sometimes it doesn't, but it's pretty obvious what we're trying to achieve. Yes, at the moment we are toothless against teams that are compact and defend deep, just like most teams who struggle with the same concept, it's a work in progress.

You're rehashing claims with no substance, not to mention completely ignoring the dire need to improve the general fitness of the squad in order to also improve the performances.
 
Yes, because the goals we have conceded have been from us handing possession over?

Wolves away - Corner second ball
Palace - One Goal Kick and one possession loss
Southampton - Corner second ball

Thanks but my post said we give it the opposition for us to have a clue how to score a goal. I.e. counter attack. I didn’t mention us conceding.
 
No, we don't. Our players this season are hugely underrated on this forum
Have you forgotten the team consists of Matic, Young, Fred, Mata, Dalot, Andreas, Jones? Too many bad performances to count, and some we don't know if they'll ever come good. As well as the inconsistency from our "star" players. So who exactly is being underrated?
 
Sorry, cannot agree with this. And I would if I genuinally could. I have not seen us control many games at all... we have had periods in matches where we are the dominant side, but controlling games?

None of our results or performances have been a suprise. None. Chelsea were better than us in the first half, and fell apart. We were v clinical in taking advantage of that, and this is to be commended. But we didn't control the game. We didn't control the Palace game; nor the Southampton game; the Wolves game, again, from a dominant period, they were better than us second half, and we end up holding on. That's not controlling much at all. the game on Sat was rather uninspiring from both teams.

This season, to me, is pretty much the same as how things ended last season. We are struggling to define ourselves as a team. The three signings have had a huge impact, and that's welcome. They have given us some fresh energy, without all the baggage of recent seasons. But we aren't in control of much when I watch us. City control games. Spurs at times control games. Liverpool control games.

Fair comments. However you are comparing us to the very best in our league (and Europe) right now and nobody is going to argue we are at that level. I think I disagree with your analysis of our matches this season so far - I think we have been a fair bit better than your description implies.

We are defending far better than we did last season. Leicester are a good side and were held at arms length for most of the match. Same with Wolves. We lack creativity for sure, but we really could and should have had 3-5 points more than we currently do and nobody would have claimed we were overly fortunate had we done so.
 
Have you forgotten the team consists of Matic, Young, Fred, Mata, Dalot, Andreas, Jones? Too many bad performances to count, and some we don't know if they'll ever come good. As well as the inconsistency from our "star" players. So who exactly is being underrated?

Yes our first team definitely consists of Matic, Young, Fred, Mata, Dalot, Andreas and Jones.
 
Have you forgotten the team consists of Matic, Young, Fred, Mata, Dalot, Andreas, Jones? Too many bad performances to count, and some we don't know if they'll ever come good. As well as the inconsistency from our "star" players. So who exactly is being underrated?
Lots of them. Maybe it is bad coaching? It is not dig at Ole, it goes for Jose too. Don't forget that those players were bought for a reason.
We have top gk and top defence. Midfield trio Pogba-Matic- Fred looks very good on paper and had some good games but it is on us why they look bad on the pitch. Martial and Rashford would be in first 11 in 15-16 teams in PL. How good are our kids i don't know and nobody knows. Maybe those 3 are new Giggs, Rooney and Scholes and maybe they are new Welbs, TC23 and Eagles.
Yes, we have two huge holes to fill in right winger and one more midfielder and nobody is denying that we have a couple of players who are complete dross like Jones, Rojo and Lingard. But in general imo; we are stronger than all teams outside top 6, Chelsea and Arsenal have similiar problems with squad and Liverpool, City and Spurs are level above us.
 
From what I've seen of Chelsea this season, Lampard's style of play is not too dissimilar to that of Conte from last season - except Chelsea now appear to put more emphasis on attack - making it a relatively seamless transition for the squad as they did not need to adapt to a brand new, unfamiliar system.

That was not the case for Ole and the United squad. After five years of LVG and Jose indoctrinating a defensive mindset into players, Ole comes along and attempts to implement a very different tactical approach, one they were not prepared or conditioned to perform at a sustainable level. We looked like a team world-beaters when Ole first took charge, beating all and sundry plus making progress up the table and in Europe, before it fell apart when the player's poor conditioning took over, resulting in an injury crisis and a severe drop in results.

Ole has done what he can to remedy the problem by clearing out the deadwood and bringing in players who know how to play his system. That the three players brought in over summer have arguably been our best three performers is no coincidence, Ole knew they would perform as required. For me, this is a sign that he has a long-term plan set in place, he needs time to continue his conditioning of the existing squad of players and the resources to make additions where necessary.

Ole needs time and money. The fans need patience, a lot of patience.
Well said Sir.
 
Where does this myth of you need 3 years just to reconditioning a player to play certain style.

Managers comes and go at any other football clubs, I don't see them grinding to a halt just because the "new manager" needs to recondition their team. Many managers has taken over from Moyes, LVG, Jose at their previous club, you don't see them crying about players not up to speed. Especially not 8 months after.

Klopp and Pep spent a couple of years moulding the existing squad of players to an acceptable condition and multiple successful transfer windows before their work began to pay off. Ole needs the same level of time and transfer market backing if he is to achieve similar results.

We can't keep bouncing around from one manager to the next. At least the current manager has a long-term plan, he's building for the future.
 
I think Ole is doing pretty well to be honest. We're a couple of missed penalties away from a great start.

We're a million miles away from perfect and there are still a lot of issues to address, however the positives are:

  1. Much of the deadwood gone
  2. 3 signings that so far all look really good
  3. Youngest team in the league with even younger players knocking on the door
  4. Better to watch than under the previous 3 managers (Still not great but definitely better)
When he took over, the club and squad was in a complete mess. I really do believe he has a plan for the squad and we're finally going in the right direction. I wish we had signed another player or two in the summer but I won't put that on Ole.

If we sign another player in January and another 2-3 players next summer that are as good as his current signings then I think we are on the right path.

Is he a better coach than Pep or Klopp? That remains to be seen (Probably not). I do have faith in him to upgrade the squad and move things forwards though.
 
Fair comments. However you are comparing us to the very best in our league (and Europe) right now and nobody is going to argue we are at that level. I think I disagree with your analysis of our matches this season so far - I think we have been a fair bit better than your description implies.

We are defending far better than we did last season. Leicester are a good side and were held at arms length for most of the match. Same with Wolves. We lack creativity for sure, but we really could and should have had 3-5 points more than we currently do and nobody would have claimed we were overly fortunate had we done so.

I’d second that. Ive watched all our games this season. We are two missed penalties and a bad bit of goalkeeping from being 5 points better off. We look improved. We still need more of a cutting edge in central midfield, and a good right winger. we knew that was going to be the case before a ball was kicked.

I hate this guff about ‘controlling’ games. We did that under LVG and sometimes Mourinho. Loads of sideways and backwards passing gives you a lot of ball retention but not necessarily anything in terms of chances and goals. And considering people park the bus against us a lot means the opposition dont even need to run if you do that - just sit in their half all game and let us pointlessly pass the ball from side to side.

For me a game is won and lost in midfield and ours isn't quite there yet in terms of playing together as a unit and the actual personnel. To properly boss and win matches we need to have a midfield that wins the ball back and plays the right passes forward.
 
I think the transfers have been spot on and have been a huge positive for us.

Its been a while since we had 3 players come in and geniunely look ike they might be mainstays in the long run.

The last we had this was Tevez, Hargreaves, Anderson and Nani, more than a decade ago.
 
What am i seeing that's not there, what exactly did i write that's incorrect ? Is it that complicated to quote a sentence and point out what you interpret as incorrect ?
What I meant was patterns in the attack, not if we press from the front or keep possession all the time or something like that. That is why I said you want to see things that are not there, whilst our attacking play is really crap and rely on individual brilliance to get goals.

I cannot see any triangles, players occupying spaces intelligently, runs off the ball to make space for the player in possession, etc. I do not expect us to play like City, or Liverpool, but with the players we have, it shouldn't be that hard to implement some attacking patterns. I pointed to that, that you fail to see that we are not well coached to do that.

Actually, this is what i've said: how we're generally standing higher up the pitch and try to win the ball back by collective pressure

You've somehow managed to interpret it as me saying we press and win the ball back the whole game, weird.

And no, we've barely lost steam after 20 mins this season, why do you keep making things up ? It's perfectly normal that the flow of the game will change, opposing managers do tend to switch things around in order to compensate.
It's great that we press from the front, most top teams do that nowadays. Our problem is once we score a goal, we sit back and soak up pressure, only exception has been the Wolves game. I understand opposition teams also have periods in the game where they attack, but it shouldn't be an entire half.

You initially claimed that there was no visible style, now you're complaining that there's only one style. We do know what to do with the ball when we win it after pressing high, we try to move it quickly in order to take advantage of any oppositional players out of position / opposition not in balance. Sometimes it work, sometimes it doesn't, but it's pretty obvious what we're trying to achieve. Yes, at the moment we are toothless against teams that are compact and defend deep, just like most teams who struggle with the same concept, it's a work in progress.

You're rehashing claims with no substance, not to mention completely ignoring the dire need to improve the general fitness of the squad in order to also improve the performances.
Where have I said there is no visible style, I said I cannot see what Ole is building. It's not relating to playing style, even Mourinho had a playing style. I meant coaching, getting or players to play as a team and not as individuals.

This fitness excuse is getting tiresome, we had entire pre-season, don't how much longer is needed to get these players up to speed.
 
What I meant was patterns in the attack, not if we press from the front or keep possession all the time or something like that. That is why I said you want to see things that are not there, whilst our attacking play is really crap and rely on individual brilliance to get goals.

I cannot see any triangles, players occupying spaces intelligently, runs off the ball to make space for the player in possession, etc. I do not expect us to play like City, or Liverpool, but with the players we have, it shouldn't be that hard to implement some attacking patterns. I pointed to that, that you fail to see that we are not well coached to do that.

3 of our 4 goals against Chelsa, Martials goal against Wolves, James against Crystal Palace, James against Southampton. Essentially the two individual brilliances we've relied on for goals are our two penalties.

Maybe you're struggling with the same illness that Wenger had during his career at Arsenal, kept saying he didn't see anything.

It's great that we press from the front, most top teams do that nowadays. Our problem is once we score a goal, we sit back and soak up pressure, only exception has been the Wolves game.

This season it hasn't happened once. Didn't sit back to soak up pressure after going up against Chelsea, Wolves , Southampton or Leicester.

I understand opposition teams also have periods in the game where they attack, but it shouldn't be an entire half.

It rarely is.

Where have I said there is no visible style, I said I cannot see what Ole is building. It's not relating to playing style, even Mourinho had a playing style. I meant coaching, getting or players to play as a team and not as individuals.

So there's a visible style, like the one i've mentioned as an example, where we're pressing as a team higher up the pitch to win the ball back in order to catch the opponent when they're not in balance, and you can't see us playing as a team :lol::lol: Mint.

Here's a quick example of us not playing as a team



This fitness excuse is getting tiresome, we had entire pre-season, don't how much longer is needed to get these players up to speed.

You were the one that moaned about there having been a focus on fitness, there needed to be one, in order to improve our overall fitness and in order to implement a more attacking strategy. It takes time, it took Klopp ages to understand how to balance Liverpool correctly. Given the quality of your posts, it wouldn't exactly be much of a surprise if you fail to understand that one summer isn't going to fix everything.
 
Well hello Sherlock: Ole wants Man Utd to be the fittest team in the whole Premier League - you cannot implement that in two months with what he inherited from Mourinhos park the buss mentality mr. AndyCole - need the right players for that
 
We're running more lads!! Whooptido!! Anyone care to talk about how we are actually playing.
 


Surprised we're ahead of Liverpool and Spurs in the pressing department.

The only issue is being able to sustain this level of intensity throughout the season. We all saw what happened at the end of last season when the players burned out due to poor conditioning. The extra fitness work Ole had the players do in pre-season should help with that though.
 
Surprised we're ahead of Liverpool and Spurs in the pressing department.

The only issue is being able to sustain this level of intensity throughout the season. We all saw what happened at the end of last season when the players burned out due to poor conditioning. The extra fitness work Ole had the players do in pre-season should help with that though.

Dangerous with the lopsided strength of our squad, they must be planning a January signing or 3 or they are lunatics :lol:
 
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