Ole Gunnar Solskjær | 2021/22 Discussion

[Cassidy]

Weird rants.



Matic has been involved in 2 out of 5 matches, 20mins against Southampton and almost 70 against Leiceister. Mata and Pereira have been far more involved, but that's down to lack of alternatives. As soon as our injured first team players return both Mata and Pereira will be on the bench (one of them will struggle to make the bench)

Whats more important, immediate punishment of poor performances or the long term success of our youngsters ? There's a bit more to take into account here, not to mention that we need to win as well. What would the lesson learned be if we played two of Gomes/Greenwood/Chong ahead of Mata and Pereira, but instead of winning we ended up losing ? Or maybe a draw ? Since Brendan was appointed manager of Leicester, only Liverpool and City have won more matches.

It wasn't a rant, it was a counter point to someone saying playing youngsters gives them too much ego and attitude, the reverse is also true for playing players who turn in poor performances it makes them complacent.

Long term success of youngsters requires them to get minutes on the pitch. In the case of Gomes we'll see what happens

On the point of needing to win, playing what we already know to be not good enough isn't going to help.

Now if you go back to my main point is was that if Ole intends to pursue playing with a 10 then he needs to try someone else there and start also giving Gomes some minutes off the bench when the seniors are not doing it. Bringing Mata, Pereira et al off the bench is a complete waste of time, they are a known quantity of mediocrity. In fact I would say renewing Matas contract was a mistake

 

[Cassidy]

I’m saying there’s no one obtainable as of right now who is going to automatically better than Rashford. Because rashford (for his age) is probably the best striker in the world under 23.

No he is not ffs

 

[Red For Ever]

Not accurate, for me at least. Of all the managers we've had post SAF, Ole seems to be the only one brave enough to plan for the medium to long term.

Most of the sh*t has been moved on, the squad is young and they look hungry to me. I like what he's doing, it won't happen overnight but we're heading in the right direction for the first time in years.

Ole may not be the world's greatest manager, he may be a little nieve at times with his comments and decisions but he's the right man for United right now.

Agreed.

Imagine if this Forum existed in 1974

 

[noodlehair]

He also got to a UCL final and went into last season with zero new signings...

He also lost the CL final after 1 minute and has had years to build a team and make signings, and has won the sum total of feck all during this time. Ole has barely had time to clear out the players he doesn't want.

Pochettino is manager of Tottenham. We have Ole. You might as well try actually supporting the team instead of sulking because you didn't get the exact manager you wanted. If we'd made the exact same start to the season under Pochettino you'd be in here defending him.

We had this shite when we got Moyes just because the crybabies wanted Mourinho. Then when we got Mourinho and Mourinho did exactly what you would expect him to do, they didn't like that either.

The idiocy on this place is actually staggering at times

 

[Cassidy]

He also lost the CL final after 1 minute and has had years to build a team and make signings, and has won the sum total of feck all during this time. Ole has barely had time to clear out the players he doesn't want.

Pochettino is manager of Tottenham. We have Ole. You might as well try actually supporting the team instead of sulking because you didn't get the exact manager you wanted.

We had this shite when we got Moyes just because the crybabies wanted Mourinho. Then when we got Mourinho and Mourinho did exactly what you would expect him to do, they didn't like that either.

It's like you just enjoy hating your own team

Where do you see me sulking about not getting the manager I wanted. I simply pointed out that your assessment was a bit silly since he also got to a UCL final. I have not called for hiring Poch

You clearly got the wrong person.

 

[DomesticTadpole]

No he is not ffs

Mbappe is on another planet to Rashford.

 

[Cassidy]

Mbappe is on another planet to Rashford.

Goes without saying there are also other strikers. Rashford doesn't even play as a striker most games either

 

[Tom Van Persie]

I’m saying there’s no one obtainable as of right now who is going to automatically better than Rashford. Because rashford (for his age) is probably the best striker in the world under 23.

You think Rashford is a better striker than Mbappe, Jesus and Werner?

Rashford isn't even the best striker at United.

 

[Rafaeldagold]

He also lost the CL final after 1 minute and has had years to build a team and make signings, and has won the sum total of feck all during this time. Ole has barely had time to clear out the players he doesn't want.

Pochettino is manager of Tottenham. We have Ole. You might as well try actually supporting the team instead of sulking because you didn't get the exact manager you wanted. If we'd made the exact same start to the season under Pochettino you'd be in here defending him.

We had this shite when we got Moyes just because the crybabies wanted Mourinho. Then when we got Mourinho and Mourinho did exactly what you would expect him to do, they didn't like that either.

The idiocy on this place is actually staggering at times

The idiocy is thinking Ole is a good manager of the calibre required for a team of our standing, he isn’t.

You can support the team still (which I always will ) and still think we can do better manager wise. The two aren’t mutually exclusive.

 

[UncleBob]

It wasn't a rant, it was a counter point to someone saying playing youngsters gives them too much ego and attitude, the reverse is also true for playing players who turn in poor performances it makes them complacent.

Long term success of youngsters requires them to get minutes on the pitch. In the case of Gomes we'll see what happens

On the point of needing to win, playing what we already know to be not good enough isn't going to help.

Now if you go back to my main point is was that if Ole intends to pursue playing with a 10 then he needs to try someone else there and start also giving Gomes some minutes off the bench when the seniors are not doing it. Bringing Mata, Pereira et al off the bench is a complete waste of time. In fact I would say renewing Matas contract was a mistake

Ego and attitude is one route, which we saw Adnan run off towards, another concern is the consequence of them struggling and the added effect of being under so much scrutiny at United. We're 5 matches into the PL season, no cup matches played, and people are complaining about youth players not getting a chance..The best scenario is to introduce them into a functioning team, not into a struggling side where they will have more pressure. They'll get plenty of time on the pitch, but there needs to be slightly more thought behind it rather than "Mata is shit".

Getting complacent is a possible risk, yes, but lets not confuse it with general mediocracy either. Mata wasn't introduced into the starting lineup until Martial's injury. Pereira is the only one that featured when everyone else was available.

 

[fergiesarmy1]

The idiocy is thinking Ole is a good manager of the calibre required for a team of our standing, he isn’t.

Says you, I’d take Ole over the last 3 clowns every day of the week. I’m finally enjoying watching united again after miserable football for the last five years you can keep your negativity to yourself pal.

 

[Rafaeldagold]

Says you, I’d take Ole over the last 3 clowns every day of the week. I’m finally enjoying watching united again after miserable football for the last five years you can keep your negativity to yourself pal.

We’re not even playing well so i don’t understand that but good luck to you- hope you enjoy us finishing about 7-10th .

We’ve not played well & had teams like wolves outplay us 3 times since he took over.

Ps if it’s negative to want the best for our club than so be it- you’re just a sheep happy with whatever happens just because we have an ex player in charge.

 

[passing-wind]

Oh my life, I didn’t realise managers had ceilings as well.

A higher ceiling based on what? Your opinion? Oh ok great one, all bow down

Oh and your assessment of Solskjaer at Cardiff is bollocks by the way

An opinion based on a premise of facts. Lampard has achieved more managerially in a shorter period. He's also influenced the Chelsea team more in the space of four games as opposed to Solskjaer in a multitude of months. Don't bother watching games on TV attend our fixtures and see for yourselves how poor the movement is, the lack of coaching directive in our attacking play, the reasons we don't look like a dangerous competitive team, the reason why we are relying on penalties and anomalies and can't create nothing from open play. Inconsistency will always be our stumble under Solskjaer, he's not a United level manager.

 

[noodlehair]

Where do you see me sulking about not getting the manager I wanted. I simply pointed out that your assessment was a bit silly since he also got to a UCL final. I have not called for hiring Poch

You clearly got the wrong person.

But I am simply pointing out that it is also a very silly assessment to just blindly criticise our current manager because he isn't a different manager, who actually, isn't in a position where you can reasonably compare who is doing the better job anyway. Based on league form and the set of players both have, Ole has been doing the better job for over half a season worth of games now. United got to the CL quarter final and were knocked out by a team who played Tottenham off the park in their own stadium in the group stage.

I think it's safe to presume that when people say we could have done better than Ole, they mean Pochettino, because who else is there? The problem is this is ignorant in itself as managing United and managing Spurs are not the same thing. Pochettino is praised for finishing 3rd/4th every year and winning nothing. Mourinho got criticised to death at United for finishing 2nd and winning two major trophies the year before. Ole is being written off for no other reason than because he isn't someone else.

We have just beaten a good side at home, despite being under intense scrutiny from cretins like this, despite having key players missing. You had Maguire and McTominay stepping up as real leaders. The likes of James and Pereira being well out of their comfort zone but running their lungs out and not hiding. Bissaka again well out of his comfort zone but playing well. The team as a whole looking far more hungry than it has in the past...and instead of people watching and thinking "actually, I can get behind this...there's some real positives here even if the quality needs to improve"...they are busy sulking in the corner and literally just making up complete fictonal bollocks to put down the manager, players, team. Rashford wins us the game yesterday. Today he is shitter than Tammy Abraham. Yet if we had Tammy Abraham here the exact same people would be moaning about how shite he is 90% of the time. The determination to not see the positive in anything at all is astonishing.

And I realise this isn't directed at you specifically.

 

[fergiesarmy1]

We’re not even playing well so i don’t understand that but good luck to you- hope you enjoy us finishing about 7-10th .

We’ve not played well & had teams like wolves outplay us 3 times since he took over

We should have battered wolves they had about a 20 minute patch where they were on top - shocking.

 

[Cassidy]

But I am simply pointing out that it is also a very silly assessment to just blindly criticise our current manager because he isn't a different manager, who actually, isn't in a position where you can reasonably compare who is doing the better job anyway. Based on league form and the set of players both have, Ole has been doing the better job for over half a season worth of games now. United got to the CL quarter final and were knocked out by a team who played Tottenham off the park in their own stadium in the group stage.

I think it's safe to presume that when people say we could have done better than Ole, they mean Pochettino, because who else is there? The problem is this is ignorant in itself as managing United and managing Spurs are not the same thing. Pochettino is praised for finishing 3rd/4th every year and winning nothing. Mourinho got criticised to death at United for finishing 2nd and winning two major trophies the year before. Ole is being written off for no other reason than because he isn't someone else.

We have just beaten a good side at home, despite being under intense scrutiny from cretins like this, despite having key players missing. You had Maguire and McTominay stepping up as real leaders. The likes of James and Pereira being well out of their comfort zone but running their lungs out and not hiding. Bissaka again well out of his comfort zone but playing well. The team as a whole looking far more hungry than it has in the past...and instead of people watching and thinking "actually, I can get behind this...there's some real positives here even if the quality needs to improve"...they are busy sulking in the corner and literally just making up complete fictonal bollocks to put down the manager, players, team. Rashford wins us the game yesterday. Today he is shitter than Tammy Abraham. Yet if we had Tammy Abraham here the exact same people would be moaning about how shite he is 90% of the time. The determination to not see the positive in anything at all is astonishing.

And I realise this isn't directed at you specifically.

Which I never did, but you did in your post direct comments at me with the word you

 

[Cassidy]

Ego and attitude is one route, which we saw Adnan run off towards, another concern is the consequence of them struggling and the added effect of being under so much scrutiny at United. We're 5 matches into the PL season, no cup matches played, and people are complaining about youth players not getting a chance..The best scenario is to introduce them into a functioning team, not into a struggling side where they will have more pressure. They'll get plenty of time on the pitch, but there needs to be slightly more thought behind it rather than "Mata is shit".

Getting complacent is a possible risk, yes, but lets not confuse it with general mediocracy either. Mata wasn't introduced into the starting lineup until Martial's injury. Pereira is the only one that featured when everyone else was available.

Coming on as a sub for 15 minutes would have preferred Gomes far better to this point to get more minutes vs Astana or in the league cup. We actually agree, we just disagree on the method because ultimately they need to get used to playing in the PL.

Coming on as a sub in the PL isn't going to put tons of pressure on them

 

[Rafaeldagold]

An opinion based on a premise of facts. Lampard has achieved more managerially in a shorter period. He's also influenced the Chelsea team more in the space of four games as opposed to Solskjaer in a multitude of months. Don't bother watching games on TV attend our fixtures and see for yourselves how poor the movement is, the lack of coaching directive in our attacking play, the reasons we don't look like a dangerous competitive team, the reason why we are relying on penalties and anomalies and can't create nothing from open play. Inconsistency will always be our stumble under Solskjaer, he's not a United level manager.

Exactly this..how people can’t see this is crazy. His coaching just isn’t up to scratch.

Who would’ve thought that from a person with a relegation to his name- I’m shocked how the fan base is ok with this to be honest

 

[lysglimt]

Like how Gary Neville knows United?

Craig Bellamy was a Cardiff-player in 2014 - OGS was a Cardiff-manager in 2014. You do the math.

 

[charlenefan]

An opinion based on a premise of facts. Lampard has achieved more managerially in a shorter period. He's also influenced the Chelsea team more in the space of four games as opposed to Solskjaer in a multitude of months. Don't bother watching games on TV attend our fixtures and see for yourselves how poor the movement is, the lack of coaching directive in our attacking play, the reasons we don't look like a dangerous competitive team, the reason why we are relying on penalties and anomalies and can't create nothing from open play. Inconsistency will always be our stumble under Solskjaer, he's not a United level manager.

What has Lampard achieved? Absolutely feck all.

Also how about you compare Lampard's first 5 games with Ole's first 5 games? It would be massively idiotic not to consider that very real possibility that Lampard's Chelsea won't also hit a bad patch over the next few months but of course bury your head in the sand to that and just compare what's happened thus far this season a period of time of which one manager is around 5/6 months into his tenure and the other is still very much in his honeymoon period

EDIT: feck it I'll compare them for you

Ole's first 5 games

Won 5
Scored 15
Conceded 3

Lampard's first 5 games
Won 2
Drawn 2
Lost 1
Scored 11
Conceded 11

So tell me know who's first 5 games into the job was more impressive now?

 

[lysglimt]

Exactly this..how people can’t see this is crazy. His coaching just isn’t up to scratch.

Who would’ve thought that from a person with a relegation to his name- I’m shocked how the fan base is ok with this to be honest

What exactly has Lampard done in his managerial career ?

 

[fergiesarmy1]

Exactly this..how people can’t see this is crazy. His coaching just isn’t up to scratch.

Who would’ve thought that from a person with a relegation to his name- I’m shocked how the fan base is ok with this to be honest

I find him to be the only bright spot in this setup.

 

[Rafaeldagold]

What exactly has Lampard done in his managerial career ?

Well I wasn’t talking about lampard specifically but he seems to have them coached better than us.

Ole isn’t good enough for us yet people will blindly support him

 

[UncleBob]

I cannot see what Ole is building with the team.

Then again, that says more about the person saying it rather than it does about the current state of United. It's perfectly fine that we aren't at the level we aspire to be at, but actually not being able to idenfity the changes is a bit weird. I mean, the easiest thing to point out is the difference in approach, how we're generally standing higher up the pitch and try to win the ball back by collective pressure, plenty of great examples of that vs Leicester. That we currently don't have enough quality to take immediate advantage when we win the ball back is obvious, but what we're trying to do is the important thing.

 

[lysglimt]

Well I wasn’t talking about lampard specifically but he seems to have them coached better than us.

Ole isn’t good enough for us yet people will blindly support him

Based on what has Lampard coached them better ? Do you consider defending part of football ?

 

[Cassidy]

Then again, that says more about the person saying it rather than it does about the current state of United. It's perfectly fine that we aren't at the level we aspire to be at, but actually not being able to idenfity the changes is a bit weird. I mean, the easiest thing to point out is the difference in approach, how we're generally standing higher up the pitch and try to win the ball back by collective pressure, plenty of great examples of that vs Leicester. That we currently don't have enough quality to take immediate advantage when we win the ball back is obvious, but what we're trying to do is the important thing.

I think that is clear, what we are trying to do with the ball outside of the quick transition is less clear

 

[Cassidy]

Based on what has Lampard coached them better ? Do you consider defending part of football ?

Their poor defending is as poor as our attacking, we have also seen some poor defending from ourselves. Bare in mind he has had the Chelsea squad for less time than Ole has had the United lot too

 

[Rafaeldagold]

Based on what has Lampard coached them better ? Do you consider defending part of football ?

Do you consider attacking part of football?

 

[UncleBob]

Coming on as a sub for 15 minutes would have preferred Gomes far better to this point to get more minutes vs Astana or in the league cup. We actually agree, we just disagree on the method because ultimately they need to get used to playing in the PL.

Coming on as a sub in the PL isn't going to put tons of pressure on them

First of all, it's a long season, it's important to get the players you expect to rely on up and running as quickly as possible, while youngsters that will be given time here and there it isn't the highest priority, nothing wrong with that.

Greenwood was thrown on against Wolves, Crystal Palace and Southampton, hardly ideal.

As i've already mentioned, Leicester have done very well under Brendan Rodgers, there wasn't much room to sub on someone like Gomes or Greenwood just for the sake of giving them minutes.

We're playing Astana, West Ham and then Rochdale. Against Astana and Rochdale i'd expect a combination of senior players and youngsters, but i'd be very suprpised if either teams are unbalanced. Small steps.

 

[Cassidy]

First of all, it's a long season, it's important to get the players you expect to rely on up and running as quickly as possible, while youngsters that will be given time here and there it isn't the highest priority, nothing wrong with that.

Greenwood was thrown on against Wolves, Crystal Palace and Southampton, hardly ideal.

As i've already mentioned, Leicester have done very well under Brendan Rodgers, there wasn't much room to sub on someone like Gomes or Greenwood just for the sake of giving them minutes.

We're playing Astana, West Ham and then Rochdale. Against Astana and Rochdale i'd expect a combination of senior players and youngsters, but i'd be very suprpised if either teams are unbalanced. Small steps.

We don't disagree on a lot except for the point that we shouldn't be relying on some of them and simply given the opportunities to the younger ones as subs.

I don't think its the most idea that Greenwood came on in those games but its better he gets those minutes under his belt than say Sanchez as its part of his development

Similarly I don't see why Mata is getting any minutes at all having 3 players for a position when we know all of them are not good enough. To me it makes sense that the 3 choice should be the young prospect we believe in. As in the case with Greenwood for the no 9 position

 

[UncleBob]

I think that is clear, what we are trying to do with the ball outside of the quick transition is less clear

You generally see us trying to set up triangles of three out wide, pass and move, but it's obviously not good enough against teams that sit deep, we're also too slow when it comes to switching sides.

 

[Cassidy]

You generally see us trying to set up triangles of three out wide, pass and move, but it's obviously not good enough against teams that sit deep, we're also too slow when it comes to switching sides.

For instance notice our wingers when the fullback advances with the ball simply stand there and don’t actually make runs in behind to stretch the fullback ans make space.

Switching play comes down a little to quality of the passing from the midfield also.

The lack of movement is still a major problem

 

[charlenefan]

Their poor defending is as poor as our attacking, we have also seen some poor defending from ourselves. Bare in mind he has had the Chelsea squad for less time than Ole has had the United lot too

How about you bare in mind that this Chelsea side could easily hit hard times just like United did under Ole for the final couple of months of last season

Any which was you lot want to slice it Ole's first 5 games vs Lampard's first 5 games we were massively more impressive than this Chelsea side have been this season and when talking just about the first 5 games of this season both sides are sat with equal number of points despite this notion that things are going swimmingly at Chelsea and not here

 

[Cassidy]

I disagree that we were more impressive when it comes to how it looked like we wanted to play. We still struggled to break a low block and relied on counter attacking.

I was not referring to results and was simply referring to style and patterns of play

 

[charlenefan]

I disagree that we were more impressive when it comes to how it looked like we wanted to play. We still struggled to break a low block and relied on counter attacking.

In Ole's first 5 games we scored 15 goals...15. You're just being a moron if you truly want to look back on Ole's first 5 games and say they weren't impressive

 

[Mike Phelan's Former Tash]

An opinion based on a premise of facts. Lampard has achieved more managerially in a shorter period. He's also influenced the Chelsea team more in the space of four games as opposed to Solskjaer in a multitude of months. Don't bother watching games on TV attend our fixtures and see for yourselves how poor the movement is, the lack of coaching directive in our attacking play, the reasons we don't look like a dangerous competitive team, the reason why we are relying on penalties and anomalies and can't create nothing from open play. Inconsistency will always be our stumble under Solskjaer, he's not a United level manager.

Fecking hell! Lampard is the new Poch now is he?

Just what has he achieved exactly? He took Derby from 6th to......erm 6th? He went there to get promoted and failed.

I don't understand people on here most of the time. If the club and manager are not good enough for you, like your life depends on it, go support Poch at spurs or Klopp or Pep because I don't see what you get out of supporting United if they're so feckin sh*t!

 

[UncleBob]

We don't disagree on a lot except for the point that we shouldn't be relying on some of them and simply given the opportunities to the younger ones as subs.

I don't think its the most idea that Greenwood came on in those games but its better he gets those minutes under his belt than say Sanchez as its part of his development

Similarly I don't see why Mata is getting any minutes at all having 3 players for a position when we know all of them are not good enough. To me it makes sense that the 3 choice should be the young prospect we believe in. As in the case with Greenwood for the no 9 position

I don't get this obsession with Mata. 4 minutes vs Chelsea, 9 mins vs Wolves (he was 1 out of 3 attacking players on the bench, Pereira and Greenwood being the other two, both came on), 5 mins vs Crystal Palace (Greenwood came on after 56 mins, no other attacking players apart from Pereira on the bench). The only two matches he has started is Southampton and Leicester, both due to injuries, without there being decent alternatives.

Greenwood is 17.

 

[Cassidy]

In Ole's first 5 games we scored 15 goals...15. You're just being a moron if you truly want to look back on Ole's first 5 games and say they weren't impressive

I said more impressive, you're a moron for not reading

I'll repeat I disagree we were more impressive in the first 5 games, also its not about the results but general play. From the pressing and attacking system, Chelsea have been one of the more impressive sides in the league (including the game at OT where they failed to score), it has been their defending that has been an issue. We were good in the first 5 under Ole but I don't think more impressive than what Ive seen from Chelsea

 

[Cassidy]

I don't get this obsession with Mata. 4 minutes vs Chelsea, 9 mins vs Wolves (he was 1 out of 3 attacking players on the bench, Pereira and Greenwood being the other two, both came on), 5 mins vs Crystal Palace (Greenwood came on after 56 mins, no other attacking players apart from Pereira on the bench). The only two matches he has started is Southampton and Leicester, both due to injuries, without there being decent alternatives.

Greenwood is 17.

Gomes is 19 and actually a no10 the obsession with Mata is that he is taking minutes that he shouldn't.

 

[charlenefan]

Fecking hell! Lampard is the new Poch now is he?

Just what has he achieved exactly? He took Derby from 6th to......erm 6th? He went there to get promoted and failed.

I don't understand people on here most of the time. If the club and manager are not good enough for you, like your life depends on it, go support Poch at spurs or Klopp or Pep because I don't see what you get out of supporting United if they're so feckin sh*t!

Indeed and let's just look at that Derby season a little closer shall we...

Finished only 1 point ahead of 7th I.e. almost didn't make it into the play offs at all
Finished exactly 20 points behind the team that won the Championship and 15 points off the team that finished 2nd (two sides that actually finished below Derby the season before)

Yeah Lampard is a poster boy for achievement at Derby isn't he

Fecking idiots