Chilwell>Shaw/Young
Evans > Lindelof
Ndidi >Mc Tominay
Maddison>Mata/Lingard/Perriera
Vardy > Martial
Gray > our "right winger"
Ole Gunnar Solskjær | 2021/22 Discussion
- Thread starter Samid
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Evans > Lindelof
Ndidi >Mc Tominay
Maddison>Mata/Lingard/Perriera
Vardy > Martial
Gray > our "right winger"
Exactly what I was thinking. I mean Ole used Pogba greatly when he came in but injuries and fitness catchup and we could not finish the season well. Now he seems to have changed the system to a 4-2-3-1 which would be fine had he signed or had another creative midfielder in the team. But at the moment, Pogba is wasted by being used too deep while we’re screaming for more creativity up front. Also, from what I have seen in these first 4 games, Pogba can’t play in front of the defense, he tends to lose the ball too many times. You’re right about Fred but to be fair to Pereira, he is played out of position, he is definitely not a winger. Ole should try to play him in the Herrera role, but I think he definitely needs to push Pogba up front and get back to the system he plays when he came in.
No he's a club legend. Don't insult the man.
Isn’t that the same lame excuse people are using for United now?
No he isn't that's a Bull shit stat. After the Palace result he had 53% win rate.
So what's the answer, sack him cause we aren't instantly like City or Liverpool and top of the league?
Who do we hire? This new hire, if he isn't top of the league instantly, do we sack him after 30 games as well?
Who gets the job then? Same rules apply? 30 Game sacking rule... Round and round we go!
Yep we have to accept it, cause you know why... not a single manager in world football rocks into OT and meets the demands of our instant gratification supporters.
So you came in with stats where Ole is with the worst record out of our last 4 managers to back it up?
Your last paragraph is complete nonsense. As I’ve said I’d back up any manager that has viable credentials to manage united and has a track record and a clear plan going ahead.
As I’ve said countless of times if it was a proven manager like Klopp I won’t be asking for his head because he has the history of turning it around and that is a major difference. Ole has a history of managing in Norway and relegating Cardiff.
True but we don't know what restraints he was put under in relation to transfers. It's difficult to fault the 3 transfers he did make who have probably been our best 3 players so far. If he had only spent the same money but across more positions (cheaper alternatives) we could have just ended up with more 'deadwood'.
Excuse or not, that is what happened. We are no longer in a position to sign whoever we want and just throw them aside to the pile if they don't work out, we've been doing that for the last six years, just look at the CB situation. I wish it was easy to sell/loan out deadwood like in a video game, but its not.
Pereira, Tielemans and £80m Maguire.
Not quite (before today)
Oh, the irony.
This “history of turning it round” criteria you keep making is such a load of crap. First of all, there are loads of excellent managers who have never ticked that box and any manager who does fulfil your criteria was once in the exact same situation as Ole is now. They hadn’t yet turned anything round. There has to be a first time ffs.
100% back him because there's nobody else we could reasonably expect to get. OGS has willingly taken on Utd at a time that any other reputable manager would be very very wary of accepting the role as the sheer scale of the job facing him could seriously damage his reputation-look what happened to Moyes, LVG and Mourinho AFTER they were sacked.
OGS didn't have a reputation to protect. In a way he's being used by the board as the broom to sweep away the crap.
As I have said before, our transfer activity this summer has made it crystal clear we are not building a squad to challenge for ANYTHING this season
OGS didn't have a reputation to protect. In a way he's being used by the board as the broom to sweep away the crap.
As I have said before, our transfer activity this summer has made it crystal clear we are not building a squad to challenge for ANYTHING this season
Interestingly, the manager most lauded to replace Ole is Pochettino.... his side is even in a worse position than us.
I don't currently know if he's making progress or not, we'll know more after 10 games. But I'm aware that these players all needed shipping out, it's not just about talent it's about attitude, about getting comfortable, ducking the responsibility of playing for Man Utd by sticking around until the next manager arrives. No more. Get rid of them. I like the three signings Ole has made. I'd like him to sign another 5 or 6 players and see what he could do with them.
Are people actually attempting to argue Ole is a better manager than Mourinho?
Mourinho is one of the all time football greats and actually did ok with us despite our shortcomings as a club. His third year doesn’t really count he was already checked out pre-season.
It’s madness to suggest our current manager could do a better job.
Mourinho is one of the all time football greats and actually did ok with us despite our shortcomings as a club. His third year doesn’t really count he was already checked out pre-season.
It’s madness to suggest our current manager could do a better job.
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We'd be expected to be good defensively and lack goals. Its the opposite so far, 7 for and 4 against in 4 matches
I might be wrong since I'm not a United fan, but I think a lot of fans are jumping the gun with Ole. Just a couple a months ago people were urging for a rebuilding process of more than one transfer window and a long-term approach and now - 4 games into the season and they are suddenly calling for his head. Even with Klopp it took us 4 years to win a major trophy, but the main reason for the success was the huge support from board AND fans.
I agree that Ole might be still tactical naive and inept. From what I've seen set pieces and build-up play against deep sitting opponent are a huge issue and it seems there is no improvement from last season in that matter, despite a promising pre-season. But he tries to play a fast, attractive type of football with pressing and attacking on the break. He also tries to use his players in their best positions and he is not afraid to ditch under-performing players like Lingard (even though I always hope he starts your games). I remember the cries last season when Mourinho persisted with Lukaku and Matic even though they were having a schocker every week. But Ole doesn't seem so stubborn with players and is more willing to change the starting approach, when things aren't going well. What I think the main issue with the club is - and I don't think Ole can take much of the blame for it - is the lack of squad depth and squad quality. Too much deadwood in the squad to be cleared out for one transfer window. And what is worse - you rushed booting players, who still had something to give to the club. I think Herrera, Smalling and even Fellaini (unpopular opinion) shouldn't have gone before Rojo, Darmien, Matic and Lingard. While I'm sad you kicked Lukaku out and took away the joy of his first touch, shipping out Sanchez as well, with no replacement when you don't have a senior back up attacker is just plain stupid. Now suddenly all the attacking play falls on the shoulders of Rashford and Pogba and when those play like today they are immediately thrown to the dogs. But the problem is that there are no better options. There is a need of at least a right winger, a playmaker and a defensive midfielder and this couldn't simply be bought in one summer. Not nowadays when transfers have become so hard to do for big clubs. But there was a big improvement on the defense this year and I think Ole should be allowed to continue with the rebuild.
It's true that he is still to bring the best out of the likes of Pogba, Rashford and Martial. But the strongest results come long term and I feel changing managers now will bring you a step back. It would only be a temporary relief.
I agree that Ole might be still tactical naive and inept. From what I've seen set pieces and build-up play against deep sitting opponent are a huge issue and it seems there is no improvement from last season in that matter, despite a promising pre-season. But he tries to play a fast, attractive type of football with pressing and attacking on the break. He also tries to use his players in their best positions and he is not afraid to ditch under-performing players like Lingard (even though I always hope he starts your games). I remember the cries last season when Mourinho persisted with Lukaku and Matic even though they were having a schocker every week. But Ole doesn't seem so stubborn with players and is more willing to change the starting approach, when things aren't going well. What I think the main issue with the club is - and I don't think Ole can take much of the blame for it - is the lack of squad depth and squad quality. Too much deadwood in the squad to be cleared out for one transfer window. And what is worse - you rushed booting players, who still had something to give to the club. I think Herrera, Smalling and even Fellaini (unpopular opinion) shouldn't have gone before Rojo, Darmien, Matic and Lingard. While I'm sad you kicked Lukaku out and took away the joy of his first touch, shipping out Sanchez as well, with no replacement when you don't have a senior back up attacker is just plain stupid. Now suddenly all the attacking play falls on the shoulders of Rashford and Pogba and when those play like today they are immediately thrown to the dogs. But the problem is that there are no better options. There is a need of at least a right winger, a playmaker and a defensive midfielder and this couldn't simply be bought in one summer. Not nowadays when transfers have become so hard to do for big clubs. But there was a big improvement on the defense this year and I think Ole should be allowed to continue with the rebuild.
It's true that he is still to bring the best out of the likes of Pogba, Rashford and Martial. But the strongest results come long term and I feel changing managers now will bring you a step back. It would only be a temporary relief.
His only fault is that he didn't force Pogba to move to Real. He would have money then to cover a few gaps in the squad. The fact that Lindelof is a liability is not his fault either.
Do I want him to succeed? 100%
Do I think he will succeed. 100% No.
I just think the writing is on the wall, we have some bang average players who will not improve and some players who will but are clearly not going to be great. Our best player on form will almost certainty leave next summer and our best player of the last 6 years or so looks half the keeper he was and will more likely also leave. Next summers window wil have to be something special to halt this inevitable decline.
I predicted a poor season (6th again) but I did not think I would be this concerned so soon into the season. Just the thought of injuries and three games a week is a terrifying prospect with this paper thin, lacking experience and incredible wasteful squad.
Unfortunately the summer window is looking more and more shambolic by the day.
I predict he will be gone in December before the winter widow. Really hope I am proved wrong on all counts though.
Do I think he will succeed. 100% No.
I just think the writing is on the wall, we have some bang average players who will not improve and some players who will but are clearly not going to be great. Our best player on form will almost certainty leave next summer and our best player of the last 6 years or so looks half the keeper he was and will more likely also leave. Next summers window wil have to be something special to halt this inevitable decline.
I predicted a poor season (6th again) but I did not think I would be this concerned so soon into the season. Just the thought of injuries and three games a week is a terrifying prospect with this paper thin, lacking experience and incredible wasteful squad.
Unfortunately the summer window is looking more and more shambolic by the day.
I predict he will be gone in December before the winter widow. Really hope I am proved wrong on all counts though.
I don’t think so...yes he is making mistakes at the moment but he is the same Ole who put together a great run of results when he came in. He drops Lingard(ahahahah) which, for me, shows he seems to eventually take good decisions sooner rather than later. I am pretty sure that he will realise soon that this system 4-2-3-1 with Pogba so deep when no real creator up front is wrong and hopefully he will go back to a 4-3-3 that he plays when he came in back in December.
Let me guess. You’re hoping to discuss Chris Smalling, aren’t you?
OCD must be common over hereIn other words we have acquired three players that we do want and let go of four players (all but one) that we don't want. I think you have made my point better than I could have made it myself.
Thank you.
He'd definitely work wonders with our inferior midfield and attack though.Interestingly, the manager most lauded to replace Ole is Pochettino.... his side is even in a worse position than us.
Let me some up why Ole is going to not succeed as a manager here. He's trying to win a game of football without the football.
Why in an era where coaching impetus is heavily relayed around possession / making use of play, is Ole refining one tactical element we had under Sir Alex ? Does Ole not forget that at United when he was a player Sir Alex played some of the best attacking football in the league. It doesn't make sense, there's more Manchester United in Klopp then under Ole, Solskjaer is more similar to the philosophy of a Mourinho. LVG said last season there's no difference between us now and under Jose and he till this day is correct.
Why in an era where coaching impetus is heavily relayed around possession / making use of play, is Ole refining one tactical element we had under Sir Alex ? Does Ole not forget that at United when he was a player Sir Alex played some of the best attacking football in the league. It doesn't make sense, there's more Manchester United in Klopp then under Ole, Solskjaer is more similar to the philosophy of a Mourinho. LVG said last season there's no difference between us now and under Jose and he till this day is correct.
Usually sane people pass their judgements after 10 or so games as you said.
Why? Why would we have a plan to not challenge? Because the board already know Ole is not the manager capable of it? And if they know he's not the man why are we waiting?
We've courted Poch for at least 4 years now, and snubbed Poch this summer already when he was getable. Instead we chose to employ Ole as permanent manager (despite publicly stating to begin with he was a temp until the summer). And if not Poch then who?
The club has no plan. That's evidenced by the past 5 seasons alone. And the club are poor at hiring, evidenced by our managerial choices and lack of choices in employing a DoF.
Why did we hire him if it's a foregone conclusion
Good post.
The problem with United is the amount of fairweather fans we have. Hell i am one of them. I was born the year Fergie took the reins and i have only experienced the good times. But talk with any other fan about our current plights and they will laugh in your face.
Maybe Ole is not the right man for the future, but the work he is doing right now, behind the scenes, like trimming some fat from the squad, promoting and buying young, hungry players that bleeds for the badge on not for their paychecks is the medicine we need. Our road to recovery is a marathon, not a sprint
If we start demanding the managers head when he fails to deliver trophies in his first season, we the fans are going to be the clubs undoing
The problem with United is the amount of fairweather fans we have. Hell i am one of them. I was born the year Fergie took the reins and i have only experienced the good times. But talk with any other fan about our current plights and they will laugh in your face.
Maybe Ole is not the right man for the future, but the work he is doing right now, behind the scenes, like trimming some fat from the squad, promoting and buying young, hungry players that bleeds for the badge on not for their paychecks is the medicine we need. Our road to recovery is a marathon, not a sprint
If we start demanding the managers head when he fails to deliver trophies in his first season, we the fans are going to be the clubs undoing
I dont have any crystal balls so I have no idea.
How in the blue hell is it a lame excuse if its factually true?
Have you any idea of the situation that was on going at Cardiff at the time? Vincent Tan was a disaster owner, who was involved in legal issues along with a few members of the board.
Simple question, how much of our current issues are SPECIFICALLY Ole's fault?
In reality, there is extremely very little that we can is directly Ole's fault, you know why cause he's not even put an arse dent in the managers seat and we've spoiled brats calling for his head since February!
Hardly surprising.
Take your pick of manager, weather its been Moyes, LVG, Jose and now Ole... we are seeing the same problem in our playing style aren't we? The players are not performing to a high enough level consistently. They don't create enough and move the ball too slowly and largely rely on heavy possession.
Again, unless we give it time and continually persist with a set manager who drills it into them to play a set way and builds up a clear definitive change in our playing style and improve things like muscle memory we will not benefit from sacking Ole.
We hired 2 of the most successful managers in the last 30-50 years of football, how did that work out? We've tired that avenue already, it hasn't worked.
By that logic ZZ & Luis Enrique are terrible managers.
BTW, Liverpool supporters right up to Klopp winning last seasons CL were calling for his head unless he won it.
Maybe, just maybe the vast majority of supporters are fickle and as much as you don't like reading it haven't a feckin notion what its like to manage a club day to day.
Seriously lad, give your head a serious wobble.
Wow, just wow......most of the posts from 2.30pm onwards today have reminded me why I have only made 20 posts in 6 years as a member on here.
It’s as obvious as it was with Moyes that he will never get it right. It’s like City when they had Mark Hughes, they would have never won the league if they kept him despite signing some great players and having a very good team.
People talk about not having the right players, but let’s look at Liverpool. Robertson, Trent, Fabinho, Milner, Matip, Henderson, Wanjaldan, it’s Klopp and coaching that have made these players world class or able to play in a world class team. Let’s not forget that when Liverpool paid £39m for Salah it raised eyebrows, so again it’s Klopp and coaching that has got the best out of him and his forward partners.
Manager and coaching is arguably more important then “right signings” because all of the world’s great teams are rarely made up of 11 signings who are already world class.
People talk about not having the right players, but let’s look at Liverpool. Robertson, Trent, Fabinho, Milner, Matip, Henderson, Wanjaldan, it’s Klopp and coaching that have made these players world class or able to play in a world class team. Let’s not forget that when Liverpool paid £39m for Salah it raised eyebrows, so again it’s Klopp and coaching that has got the best out of him and his forward partners.
Manager and coaching is arguably more important then “right signings” because all of the world’s great teams are rarely made up of 11 signings who are already world class.
Last part is also true but you have to buy smart and if you can’t replace a senior member then hold onto him for a year. You have to strike balance in all lines.
There are many alternatives on the cheap that can be useful as a short term options to compliment those three new players and we would have been in much better position.
I don’t see this squd winning a lot of games, few goals in gun, few clean sheet, few players (but with 7 CB). This will assure you a low mid table place
With long term injuries upfront a low mid table season like this, could be transformed soon in a relegation battle to survive in EPL
Like who are those managers?
My point is proven managers get extra time because they have proven they can steer a club/team in a right direction.
We don’t have any evidence Ole will come good.
Appointing him first place is a huge gamble, but when you also have a very bad string of results surely that means only one thing?
There isn’t any evidence what he is saying will come true, after all owners take calculated risks and when coupled with a team that pretty much anyone can see isn’t good enough to claim top 4, the results are hardly surprising.
All managers that have distinct identity has shown right away that they want a team to play a certain way and they don’t need 3-4 years to build a team. They have to improve what they have.
Yeah, like the people who wanted him made permanent manager based on 10 matches while ignoring his 10 years managerial career and fact that he’d been at Molde for several years since getting Cardiff relegated and hadn’t received any offers to leave.
Those people wanted the incompetent board to abandon the one good strategic plan which was to thoroughly assess who the next permanent manager would be and instead give it to Ole, a man who in November they wouldn’t even have named in their top 10 people to replace Mourinho.
But Dan (I hope you don't mind you calling you Dan) you said and I quote: "Genuinely feel sorry for him. You can see the stress in his face. He’s not stupid, he knows this squad is dreadful, but he’s clearly not been given the signings he wanted. Either that or he’s incredibly naive thinking that this would produce results."
Did Ole tell you the squad is dreadful? No, quite the opposite, you surmised that yourself and even if it were 'dreadful' is it too 'dreadful' to beat Southampton? Remember, the context of your comment was the match against Southampton, which is a game that we should have won convincingly - especially considering our first half dominance and the fact that we played the last 20 minutes against 10 men. Your quote effectively offers Ole an out. I agree that the squad may not be good enough to challenge Liverpool or City as they seem to be on a different planet to everyone else. But it is more than good enough to beat 10 players at St Mary's and a relegation candidates Palace at Old Trafford.
We're averaging a point per game and when you look at the next six league fixtures it's hard to be optimistic.
Leicester (H)
West Ham (A)
Arsenal (H)
Newcastle (A)
Liverpool (H)
Norwich (A)
Ole has his work cut out trying to get this group of players to get a decent return of points from those fixtures.
Ole needs to be sacked
Sick of looking for "positives" when we drop points against weak teams
Its only been 4 games and we already look like a team who will struggle to get into the top 4
The new Arsenal
Sick of looking for "positives" when we drop points against weak teams
Its only been 4 games and we already look like a team who will struggle to get into the top 4
The new Arsenal
We’re fecked we know we are fecked, sticking all out eggs in that pudding pogba camp is a mistake.
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