So we have taken some steps forward and are no worse off in other areas - that is progress then?
There. Patronizing for ya.
Ole Gunnar Solskjær | 2021/22 Discussion
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So we have taken some steps forward and are no worse off in other areas - that is progress then?
There. Patronizing for ya.
This thread.. pissed on Jose's 2nd and 2 trophies while at the same time bigging up 3 wins in 15 as progress in the right direction
the irony
the irony
You mean the same statistical models that predicted Ole's downfall? It seems like they are spot on again. So why exactly are you championing for much worse manager now? This run and hope football isn't any better.
This constant bum talk is getting old. Soon enough it will bite you in the.. well you know where.
We finished 2nd with 81 points. The same amount which Leicester won the league with. 9 more than 3rd placed Spurs last season. Only 5 less than a better Spurs side which finished 2nd to Conte’s 92 point winning machine.
If Ole reached 81 points and a cup final after winning 2 trophies the season before people would wank themselves into oblivion.
By the way, you cant fluke a fecking league campaign.
If Ole reached 81 points and a cup final after winning 2 trophies the season before people would wank themselves into oblivion.
By the way, you cant fluke a fecking league campaign.
Same statistical model which shows we have done much better than the results show this season. Same statistical model that actually showed we were 3rd best team in points, goals scored since Ole took over to end of the season. Luckily they don't start with arbitrary points like last 10 games, 15 games.
I back him just like I backed Jose for a season or 2, if there is no progress then I want them out. As simple as that. Not sure why its so hard to understand.
Taibi wouldn't be on £350k+ a week. Try shifting De Gea when he's on that and keeps throwing the ball in the back of his own net.Even Massimo Taibi wouldn’t be Sanchez 2.0, chill out!
Jose's 1st season was so much better than his 2nd. We played some very good football and unlucky not to win many more games.
Seriously? When Jose took over we were 5th.
When Ole took over and this season Chelsea are on transfer ban, Spurs have had their stadium built and didn't spend last year and spent less than us this year. Arsenal are/were about the same level. Leicester will be miles off title challenge.Liverpool and City obviously are miles ahead, but no one is expecting a title challenge is it?
With our team under a good manager I can see no reason why we can't challenge 3rd or 4th spot.
We needed 5-6 players because we have inexperienced manager at helm who is not able to raise the level of the players we already have.
Yeah it's not like people wanted RB, CB, RW, CM signed when Jose was still the manager.
Not sure what your point is, I said it long back we should be finishing at least 4th, otherwise it's not a successful season. The point I made was completely different anyways.
Being genuinely serious, if you look at the amount of effort and nuance in this post and then see some of the stuff on the other side... it can’t help but to persuade people. Thank you for taking the time to write that, it was a genuine pleasure to read.
Yeah it's not like people wanted RB, CB, RW, CM signed when Jose was still the manager.
Not sure what your point is, I said it long back we should be finishing at least 4th, otherwise it's not a successful season. The point I made was completely different anyways.
Point is the squad looks weaker to me compared to what Jose left because bunch of senior members were not replaced. You can blame Jose on disrupting the harmony, but you can't blame him that our squad looks worse than couple of months before.
On top of that we have unbalanced squad with 7 CB's and short in attack and CM.
My point is, as you said we should be finishing top 4 because the competition apart from Liverpool and City is not much stronger. However we(put Ed if you like if you don't want to put the blame on the manager for the transfer business) have put ourselves into a position that our squad is highly unlikely to finish top 4, due to being short in certain areas and lacks quality in midfield.
Now the squad is weaker as we are still in the process of offloading players from the bloated squad. We have too many players who offers very little for the wages they are paid.
We needed RB, CB, CM, RW last season too and by the end of window everyone was desperate for at least a CB. After 2 seasons of rebuilding we still had so much to do as the signings flopped.
I agree that squad is unbalanced and also poorer than last season but it's a work in progress. We had to offload few players and we did it too late to replace them. We still have lot of work to do, in trimming the squad and offload players who don't offer anything.
My actual point was we were closer to City, Liverpool, Spurs when Jose took over and now by the time he left, City and Liverpool are miles ahead of us.
People wanted Jose to challenge that behemoth of a City side and also build long term at the same time. A lot of his signings, if not majority of his signings were aged 25 or under. This fan base is fecking deluded.
Cried when we accumulated 81 points saying the players were capable of more under another manager and then cry that the players are shite when a new manager joins.
Good luck to Ole reaching 81 points. Maybe lets make things easier, good luck winning the league cup and Europa league this season. Turn around the “mess” that Jose apparently created.
Cried when we accumulated 81 points saying the players were capable of more under another manager and then cry that the players are shite when a new manager joins.
Good luck to Ole reaching 81 points. Maybe lets make things easier, good luck winning the league cup and Europa league this season. Turn around the “mess” that Jose apparently created.
And somehow Liverpool did it
Jose fan boys and their worshiping is just on another level.
I agree on City and Liverpool of course, but are Spurs really that much better than us?
They've reinforced with NDombele, Lo Celso and Sessegnon over 2 years. Granted they do had a better team to start with, but lost Trippier (who was average last year) and didn't replace him and Eriksen/Toby seems wanting to leave and in the last year of their contracts. Alli also doesn't seem to develop in the way he was expected and is also a bit average since last year.
All in all they are that much better than year before despite reaching the CL finals and also have a short squad?
And somehow Liverpool did it
Jose fan boys and their worshiping is just on another level.
Congratulations to them. They finished behind us the season before but the board back their manager and believe in his vision.
I don't worship Jose. People cried after we finished 2nd and now they realise how far away the team actually is. That’s not Jose’s fault. That’s the boards fault.
Oh yes you do. It's almost heartwarming to see you still fighting the fight.
The team is really far away partly because of the terrible transfers of your hero. But of course it's not his fault, it's that he didn't get to waste even more money!
So now Klopp didn't sign anyone this season, so can we expect them to fall apart?
Their board backed him as they didn't spend much and his work made everyone convinced that he was taking them forward. Apart from all that, he created such a great atmosphere that everyone wants to be part of it and on the other hand, Jose created such a toxic environment that club had to beg journalists to create something positive in preseason.
When they finished behind us, they also smashed few teams and reached CL finals and the way they progressed, many had them as favorites to finish ahead of us next season.
It's not like Liverpool back him with shit loads of money, they sold their best player and reinvested. In the end, they spent as much as ManUtd under Jose, they have by far the second best team in the league and one of the favorites to win CL. On the other hand, we are still work in progress thanks to shit signings who were good for 1/1.5 seasons.
You only have to look at the amount of money Jose spent, and how little there is to show for it in the current squad, to realise why we are in this position of needing "another" rebuild.
The 2nd place keeps being brought up, how come the team did so much worse the season after (with pretty much the same squad)? I think it's quite simple: all indicators pointed towards it being a very fortunate season, where a fair finish in line with our performances would have been in the region of 5th to 6th place.
The 2nd place keeps being brought up, how come the team did so much worse the season after (with pretty much the same squad)? I think it's quite simple: all indicators pointed towards it being a very fortunate season, where a fair finish in line with our performances would have been in the region of 5th to 6th place.
People in this thread/forum just wilfully ignore this fact which is the main reason we are in the position we are. It actually beggars belief. We are rotten from the top down. No footballing men making the decisions. Just a load of finance twats playing FM with one of the biggest clubs in the world. While that analogy is not completely true of course, it's not actually that far from the truth either.
You don't need to worship someone to acknowledge that the first two seasons deserve way more credit than they ever received. If people want to talk about a mess, the only people who created a mess is the board.
Klopp had a season before Jose joined. The Liverpool board back him and his vision meanwhile Woodward clearly doesn’t know what he wants to back or what vision he believes in because every manager is different to the last. Woodward and the board have created the mess, not a manager who fecking over achieved before being fecked over in the summer. People need to give their head a wobble.
The board does deserve blame for allowing the likes of Moyes, Van Gaal, and Mourinho running amok without any oversight or structure or plan. That, however, does not absolve the managers from blame for their numerous mistakes and woeful transfers.
So whichever way you want to spin it, the board has created the mess. Like I said, they are probably creating another one and OP has somehow decided Ole is fixing it.
It's quite funny, hate him all you want but Mourinho got the best league finish we had since 2012. The final season may have been a car crash but the first two were improvements from what we experienced before.
Klopp didn't have a full season, he joined in October. And he did not get to break the world transfer record in his first summer and then the British transfer record in his second. This idea that Woodward didn't back Mourinho doesn't even stand up to the most minimal scrutiny. Like, a quick look at our transfers immediately destroys the myth.
And somehow Liverpool did it
Jose fan boys and their worshiping is just on another level.
Here we go
If you actually read his post there isn't much wrong with it. We all thought the manager can do better than 81 points with what he had, and we haven't come close since. Nor do we look likely to.
I think that it upsets you we had our best season under a manager you clearly hate, so anything that's not a bitter post towards Jose is stamped as "fanboy worshippers"
So he started 2 months in? It’s still significant time to assess a squad. There is progression from each of those seasons where records are broken until the last summer where he was NOT backed.
Well I don't share Twiggy's sunshine-filled optimism, I'm just saying that Mourinho did a terrible job and yes, I hold the board culpable for not recognising earlier that he's past it. Should have been fired after the Sevilla press conference when it was clear that he had no interest in anything but protecting himself.
And yes, I hold the board culpable for not sacking Van Gaal in December 2015 when we lost to anyone who wandered in our rough direction. But again, this doesn't mean that the managers can be absolved. They all did terrible jobs.
He didn’t do a terrible job. The board are terrible. Agree to disagree.
He did, I'm not denying that but it was also abundantly clear that we were going nowhere. It 100% looked like his second Chelsea tenure: decent first season, good start to the second and then grinding out results despite playing shite - and then a total collapse in the third. He was never going to build anything, that second place was the peak of his capabilities here. We should not have started 2018/19 with him.
Mate, come on, you can't make wildly inaccurate comments like this:
Yeah it's not like people wanted RB, CB, RW, CM signed when Jose was still the manager.
Not sure what your point is, I said it long back we should be finishing at least 4th, otherwise it's not a successful season. The point I made was completely different anyways.
"When Jose took over we were close to other teams, when he was sacked we were miles behind other top teams."
And then tell the poster who corrects you you're not sure what his point is!
Jose had to go but he had got us to our highest league finish in 6 years.
Is this what it's called denial?
Keep blaming Jose if it makes you all feel better and not face the reality that the team is a bunch of headless chickens running all over the field.
I will even help you a little bit more.
Moyes seasons where Jose's fault
Van gaal seasons where Jose's fault
Jose titles and 2nd place where all the players. The bad stuff where Jose's fault.
Ole wins where all the great team he created but the 15 defeats or something are all Jose's fault.
In the future, what of bad happens will always be Jose's fault.
Keep blaming Jose if it makes you all feel better and not face the reality that the team is a bunch of headless chickens running all over the field.
I will even help you a little bit more.
Moyes seasons where Jose's fault
Van gaal seasons where Jose's fault
Jose titles and 2nd place where all the players. The bad stuff where Jose's fault.
Ole wins where all the great team he created but the 15 defeats or something are all Jose's fault.
In the future, what of bad happens will always be Jose's fault.
But still, when he arrived, Liverpool were behind us, City had finished on the same points total. Two and a half years and over 300m spent later, both teams were vastly, vastly superior to us while Mourinho was moaning that he didn't get fecking Willian. As if that had bridged the difference.
Klopp spent 370m pounds or something in his first three windows. The notion that he didn't break the world transfer record is a bit misleading.
The year he won CL and finished second he spent 160m pounds - more than Jose ever did in a single window.
Do you have a link for this?
I’m more interested in that than the rollercoaster game by game approach personally.
Considering the fact Woodward didn't back him in his last summer window, with net spend of £55m, I'm not surprised he was unhappy with our transfer business. He also wanted Maguire then too. The squad definitely needed investment. Liverpool spent 2-3 times what we did in that Summer. And surpassed us.
We weren't going anywhere? We made tangible improvements in results back to back in seasons under Jose. After winning the Europa Cup in his first season he took us to 81 points the next with a much improved win %. In fact if we compare Ole's current win % to Jose after the same amount of games, what do we get? After 31 games if I'm not mistaken Jose had a 65% win percentage didn't he? Ole isn't close to that right now. I think there was a plan and progress for the 2/3rds of Jose's tenure. Then it fell apart in the final third of his time.
He had his style of playing and it was clear how he wanted us to operate. The problem was it didn't suit our ethos as a club at all. Sure it all fell apart in the third season since pre season and since he publically went against the board, squad etc. But his methods in getting results shouldn't really be questioned. Scoff at his outbursts all you want, the man had a total win % of what, 58% or something. And that includes the car crash of the third season, still superior to Ole.
Klopp spent €436M during Mourinho's stint here, Mourinho spent €465M. And Mourinho started with the superior squad, considering we finished ahead of Liverpool in 15/16 and 14/15 as well.
No matter how we look at it, Mourinho was a failure overall. That he did give us our best league finish means only one thing: our other post-Fergie managers were shite, too.
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