Ole Gunnar Solskjær | 2021/22 Discussion

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rotherham_red said:
Really? He had the following: Top 3 GK in the league; two Top 5 CBs in Vertonghen and Toby; Best/second-best creative CM in Eriksen; Best young AM in the league in Alli; Top 5 Wide Forward in the league in Son; and the best striker in the league in Harry Kane.

Compare that to us, and it's not even close. Yes, the squad was thin, but they had quality throughout. We, on the other hand, now have a good defence and a promising if unproven attack and a piss poor midfield.

Like I said, not even close.
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We are comparing Oles current squad saying he lacks depth.

GK -If Lloris is top 3, can you name the other 2? Cause De Gea is the best keeper in the league.
CB - We have one of the top 5 CB in Maguire
RB - We have top 3 RB in AWB
CM - We have top 3 CM in the league in Pogba
CDM - One of the top 5 young CDM's in McT (I am only mentioning him because you mentioned Alli, which is a joke)
LW - Rashford is top 5 wide forwards as well

They had Sissoko, Winks in CM
 
Isotope said:
At least with this team, we are able to pinpoint the needed improvement. And with better players, it’s almost guaranteed the team will function better. The model and vision are clear. Problems are identified, and solutions are known.

Under Mou though, feck knows what the problems and solutions. Or maybe we fans are not smart enough to understand him.
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I agree. I think Mourinho tried to hide or weakness, thus making it difficult to identify exactly where we need to improve. Whereas Ole is playing to our strengths, that way we see which positions lack quality and where we need to improve.
 
fergiesarmy1 said:
If we have a better season this year, make the right signings, get rid of the dead wood I see us challenging in 3 years time.

Hopefully Pep and Klopp have gone by then also :D
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If we have a good season I can see us challenging next season.

The hardest part of this transition season is the players adapting to the pressing game.
 
elnorte said:
Because he doesn't have the talent to do so.
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Did you think Liverpool had the talent to build one?

3 years ago, I am sure no one thought Hendo, Wijnaldum, Salah, Mane, Firminho, robertson, Trent, Matip will be talented enough for a title bid?

Have some faith.
 
RooneyLegend said:
Are there people out there who really think hes going to build a title contending team?
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If City continue to pick up 95-96-97 Points - noone can beat them. But I don't think they will…

The way I see it - if we continue to give Greenwood, Gomes, Chong etc chances - and OGS continues to buy players like James, Maguire and AWB - we will improve. Will it be enough to beat City in the next 2 seasons ? Maybe 2021/2022 is a more realistic chance.

But even if OGS fails and is fired - he will have made the job a hell of alot easier for the next guy than Mourinho did for him.
 
romufc said:
We are comparing Oles current squad saying he lacks depth.

GK -If Lloris is top 3, can you name the other 2? Cause De Gea is the best keeper in the league.
CB - We have one of the top 5 CB in Maguire
RB - We have top 3 RB in AWB
CM - We have top 3 CM in the league in Pogba
CDM - One of the top 5 young CDM's in McT (I am only mentioning him because you mentioned Alli, which is a joke)
LW - Rashford is top 5 wide forwards as well

They had Sissoko, Winks in CM
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Ederson, Allison, and DDG are currently better, but going in to last season Allison was unproven and Ederson needed last season to confirm that he was indeed good enough. So if anything, Top 3 was a conservative estimate, it's more like Top 2.

Maguire, Pogba, and AWB granted. Though Pogba is flakey and inconsistent, so top 3 is an overestimation. Talentwise, he's arguably the best, but that talent is seldom applied consistently enough. Even Maguire, I'd hesitate to say he's top 5. He wasn't particularly great last season either.

To compare McTominay and Alli is a bigger joke. I don't even like Alli, but we can't argue against his end product, especially for one so young. McTominay is a good, young squad player, who has been thrusted in to a starting role due to the incompetence of the board. Winks is a more valid comparison, and McTominay loses out even to him.

Rashford is not yet on the level of Son. He's still a kid and growing in to his role, and he isn't top 5 right now: Mane, Salah, Sterling, Son, Sane are all currently comfortably ahead of him.

That Spurs first XI last season was complete, with the only player who wasn't good being Trippier, even though he was actually decent until the World Cup. Ours isn't. It's at least two players short (Lingard, McTominay, and a RW).

Poch also had experienced players he could rely upon off the bench, while we are currently an injury or two in certain key positions away from calling up kids. It genuinely isn't even a valid comparison.
 
rotherham_red said:
Ederson, Allison, and DDG are currently better, but going in to last season Allison was unproven and Ederson needed last season to confirm that he was indeed good enough. So if anything, Top 3 was a conservative estimate, it's more like Top 2.

Maguire, Pogba, and AWB granted. Though Pogba is flakey and inconsistent, so top 3 is an overestimation. Talentwise, he's arguably the best, but that talent is seldom applied consistently enough. Even Maguire, I'd hesitate to say he's top 5. He wasn't particularly great last season either.

To compare McTominay and Alli is a bigger joke. I don't even like Alli, but we can't argue against his end product, especially for one so young. McTominay is a good, young squad player, who has been thrusted in to a starting role due to the incompetence of the board. Winks is a more valid comparison, and McTominay loses out even to him.

Rashford is not yet on the level of Son. He's still a kid and growing in to his role, and he isn't top 5 right now: Mane, Salah, Sterling, Son, Sane are all currently comfortably ahead of him.

That Spurs first XI last season was complete, with the only player who wasn't good being Trippier, even though he was actually decent until the World Cup. Ours isn't. It's at least two players short (Lingard, McTominay, and a RW).

Poch also had experienced players he could rely upon off the bench, while we are currently an injury or two in certain key positions away from calling up kids. It genuinely isn't even a valid comparison.
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You are using different times to suit your argument here.

So you compare Lloris to Allison and Ederson from last year, but compare Son to players this year?

Sane is comfortably better than Rashford? okay mate have a look at goals and assists.

So Spurs had experience? can you name them?

United have experience - Matic, Young, Mata, Smalling, Sanchez but I guess you ignore that.
 
Amir said:
Worrying is probably too big a word. But it's a worthy question when a player who is not a great penalty taker is allowed to continue to take them. I really don't see how a decision like that, which is simply about who is better at something, compares with being a captain which is just a symnolic thing.

I really don't see how the keeper is relevant here. A keeper can prepare for more than one penalty taker, and probably would not have focused only on Rashford solely on last week's penalty. Also, a good penalty taker would vary his shots.
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We had c.5 years (on and off) of Rooney being the penalty taker here, no one battered an eye lid at the time, even though he was just as inconsistent at them as Pogba. The pen itself on Monday was a good penalty, but the keeper guessed right. Shit happens. It's hardly like his penalties are horrible shanks either, I'm pretty sure every single one has been on target thus far. It's just that the keeper guessed right.

The keepers may prepare for more than one penalty taker, but with teams usually only having only one designated taker, I'd hazard a guess that they would focus on that taker, as opposed to multiple ones which clutter their thinking.
 
romufc said:
You are using different times to suit your argument here.

So you compare Lloris to Allison and Ederson from last year, but compare Son to players this year?

Sane is comfortably better than Rashford? okay mate have a look at goals and assists.

So Spurs had experience? can you name them?

United have experience - Matic, Young, Mata, Smalling, Sanchez but I guess you ignore that.
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No, I'm talking about Spurs going into last season, compared to us going into this season.

Lloris has been and still is, one of the best GKs in the league.

Sane had 17 goals and 18 assists last season. Rashford had 16 goals and 9 assists last season in comparison... I suppose you need to take a look at the stats a little more. Son is an established player in the league, who comes up trumps time and time again for Spurs. Rashford is a stellar young talent who is working his way up.

Lamela, Llorente, Moura, Wanyama, Aurier - all experienced and all were on the bench more often than not last season. And with the exception of Llorente, they're not geriatrics like Matic, Young, and Mata either. Smalling, Jones, Rojo are surplus to requirements, as you can see from them not even being on the bench thus far.
 
rotherham_red said:
We had c.5 years (on and off) of Rooney being the penalty taker here, no one battered an eye lid at the time, even though he was just as inconsistent at them as Pogba. The pen itself on Monday was a good penalty, but the keeper guessed right. Shit happens. It's hardly like his penalties are horrible shanks either, I'm pretty sure every single one has been on target thus far. It's just that the keeper guessed right.

The keepers may prepare for more than one penalty taker, but with teams usually only having only one designated taker, I'd hazard a guess that they would focus on that taker, as opposed to multiple ones which clutter their thinking.
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I've seen worse penalties, but the thing about penalties is that if the player fires them well, it doesn't matter what the keeper does. Pogba's shot brought the keeper into the game (unlike, say, Rashford's shot in Paris). Sure, it could easily have gone in had the keeper gone the other way, but the only thing that matters in penalties is if it went in or not. If it didn't, it means you can do better. And looking at Pogba's penalties we can definitely do better. If we let him continue to take them, there will be more misses because he's just not a great penalty taker.

As for the preparations of goalkeepers, well, I doubt knowing Cantona, Ronaldo or Van Nistelrooy helped them much. And obviously 'surprising' Rui Patricio didn't help either. Anyway, now no one would be surprised because they would know to prepare for both Rashford and Pogba.

And I remember enough discussions about Rooney taking penalties... The main difference between then and now may be that now we seem to have better takers than Pogba.
 
Jambalaya said:
Yes I did.
Maybe if you can not beat Wolves at the third attempt you should not be manager of Manchester United.It is Wolverhampton not prime Barcelona.Woodward and Co. did a good job of lower expectation of the fans.

Edit:can not.
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Yes, because Wolves are the same standard as Stevenage now aren't they? Just no sense of reality have you.
 
Jambalaya said:
Yes I did.
Maybe if you can not beat Wolves at the third attempt you should not be manager of Manchester United.It is Wolverhampton not prime Barcelona.Woodward and Co. did a good job of lower expectation of the fans.

Edit:can not.
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WOW! its not Cardiff we're talking about here.. Wolves are a top 7 team, which no one from top 6 beat at the Molineux last season! They're no mugs, far from it! There's no context to your post whatsoever; they've got some real quality in there that cannot be disregarded! Do you realise SAF lost to Wolves in 2011 (they were relegated that season too) get a grip mate! Plus Pogba missing a penalty is not Ole's fault is it; on another day we win that game 3-1 at the minimum.
 
TRUERED89 said:
WOW! its not Cardiff we're talking about here.. Wolves are a top 7 team, which no one from top 6 beat at the Molineux last season! They're no mugs, far from it! There's no context to your post whatsoever; they've got some real quality in there that cannot be disregarded! Do you realise SAF lost to Wolves in 2011 (they were relegated that season too) get a grip mate! Plus Pogba missing a penalty is not Ole's fault is it; on another day we win that game 3-1 at the minimum.
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These clowns would rather support Mourinho who destroyed the club internally,rather than a club legend! bonkers.

The sooner he gets a new job and they all move on the better.
 
rotherham_red said:
Ederson, Allison, and DDG are currently better, but going in to last season Allison was unproven and Ederson needed last season to confirm that he was indeed good enough. So if anything, Top 3 was a conservative estimate, it's more like Top 2.

Maguire, Pogba, and AWB granted. Though Pogba is flakey and inconsistent, so top 3 is an overestimation. Talentwise, he's arguably the best, but that talent is seldom applied consistently enough. Even Maguire, I'd hesitate to say he's top 5. He wasn't particularly great last season either.

To compare McTominay and Alli is a bigger joke. I don't even like Alli, but we can't argue against his end product, especially for one so young. McTominay is a good, young squad player, who has been thrusted in to a starting role due to the incompetence of the board. Winks is a more valid comparison, and McTominay loses out even to him.

.
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You won't find 5 centrebacks who are better than Maguire. Imo - VVD is in a League of his own, you could argue that Alderweireld is better, I would more say the same Level but I could accept Alderweireld….but to find 3 more ? Never.

It is at least 2 Seasons since Alli last was really good - last season he scored 5 goals in 25 matches for a very attacking side - in an attacking position.
 
lysglimt said:
You won't find 5 centrebacks who are better than Maguire. Imo - VVD is in a League of his own, you could argue that Alderweireld is better, I would more say the same Level but I could accept Alderweireld….but to find 3 more ? Never.

It is at least 2 Seasons since Alli last was really good - last season he scored 5 goals in 25 matches for a very attacking side - in an attacking position.
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I'm talking about Spurs going in to last season and comparing their situation to ours currently, not last season as a whole. The season before last, he had 14 goals. Even so, to say McTominay (as much as I like the guy) is on a comparable level to Alli is ridiculous.

I'd have VVD, Laporte, and maybe Vertonghen and Toby ahead of Maguire, though granted, the pool for quality CBs is shallow, so he is probably Top 5.
 
rotherham_red said:
I'm talking about Spurs going in to last season and comparing their situation to ours currently, not last season as a whole. The season before last, he had 14 goals. Even so, to say McTominay (as much as I like the guy) is on a comparable level to Alli is ridiculous.

I'd have VVD, Laporte, and maybe Vertonghen and Toby ahead of Maguire, though granted, the pool for quality CBs is shallow, so he is probably Top 5.
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Ah ok - I misunderstood you
 
Adam-Utd said:
These clowns would rather support Mourinho who destroyed the club internally,rather than a club legend! bonkers.

The sooner he gets a new job and they all move on the better.
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You're the only one talking about Mourinho here.
 
Big Ben Foster said:
You're the only one talking about Mourinho here.
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They’re the only ones who are being unreasonable enough to not give him a chance. Some would have sacked him at the end of the season! Crazy.
 
lysglimt said:
You won't find 5 centrebacks who are better than Maguire. Imo - VVD is in a League of his own, you could argue that Alderweireld is better, I would more say the same Level but I could accept Alderweireld….but to find 3 more ? Never.

It is at least 2 Seasons since Alli last was really good - last season he scored 5 goals in 25 matches for a very attacking side - in an attacking position.
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fourfourtwo reckons there are 9 better than him. Not saying I agree just adding the link.

https://www.fourfourtwo.com/features/best-centre-backs-defenders-in-the-world
 
Pavl3n said:
I'm not part of this discussion, looking at your earlier post, everything written points at comparisons made in the league and now all of a sudden you pull an article top 10 in the world.
You're constantly changing the narrative to suit your point.
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What earlier post? I wasnt part of the discussion either. Had know idea they were talking about players from this league only, and I also said I dont agree with that link anyway. So I dont know what you are on about.
 
Jambalaya said:
Yes I did.
Maybe if you can not beat Wolves at the third attempt you should not be manager of Manchester United.It is Wolverhampton not prime Barcelona.Woodward and Co. did a good job of lower expectation of the fans.

Edit:can not.
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Ferguson lost three on the trot to Wimbledon after getting appointed. Wimbledon were about as strong then as Wolves are now. My point isn't that Ole is as good as Sir Alex, my point is that what you're saying is dumb as feck.
 
A team carrying two attackers because of their lack of ball ability will struggle to create. It's not that hard to explain.
 
He is a manager with a philosophy similar to Mourinho as I stated before. When a team sit backs, we don’t know what to do because Ole only knows counter attacking football. We look clueless when trying to break Palace down and the blame lies with Ole and his philosophy. Why start James and lingard? Gomes and Chong are more effective against a team that sit backs. Gomes especially.
 
Adisa said:
A team carrying two attackers because of their lack of ball ability will struggle to create. It's not that hard to explain.
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Not that they're helped by how slowly we're getting them the ball.

This has been a Van Gaal performance so far.
 
I wonder what we would look like had we sold Pogba, got Maguire last summer like Mourinho wanted and kept Mourinho.
 
Why is Rashford taking freekicks? Why? Put Pogba on freekicks and Rashford on penalties. Simple
 
He has no clue what we should do in the last third. That showed last season as well and didn't change. If he can't get us playing against these type of teams he won't make it here.
 
What is our game plan?

What do we do between our games, we can’t be practicing judged by how awful our players perform this first 45 minutes. A couple of results like this and Ole Gunnar is in for a tough ride.
 
Most irritated by the fact that we failed to make anything out of those two close range freekicks. Our set pieces in general feel random. No strategy behind them.
 
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