Ole Gunnar Solskjær | 2021/22 Discussion

[Grande]

So was Carrick at the same age. Do we wait till he's the finished product and cost 5X more, or gamble on a young promising player?

Interesting question. Back then, Ferguson waited for five years, while Carrick went from Spurs’ most promising player to Spurs’ best player.

Then again, at that time, we could just buy Spurs best player if we wanted. The economy of English football have changed a lot since then.

 

[Beachryan]

I'm not convinced a counter attacking team can truly succeed anymore. It inherently cedes control to the other team, and you then rely on out performance of strikers and defenders. Basically none of the other top teams in Europe consistently play this way, and for good reason.

If you control the match and create more chances than your opponent you're more likely to win it.

Wolves is a huge test, if we're to beat them I definitely think we'll need better control over the match.

 

[Grande]

Well I guess it's a bit different now as it's a new season and Ole doesn't really have the excuse of coming in mid-season during a horribly messy period.

Yes, and there will be set-backs yet, and fans and media will go ballistic again. Though if he’s able to go through that period, and all the negativism of the surroundings during summer, and still have that kind of status amongst the players, I guess he’ll handle a 1-6 at home to City as well.

 

[roonster09]

Interesting question. Back then, Ferguson waited for five years, while Carrick went from Spurs’ most promising player to Spurs’ best player.

Then again, at that time, we could just buy Spurs best player if we wanted. The economy of English football have changed a lot since then.

Carrick spent just 2 years at Spurs, also we had good midfield back then with Scholes, Keane (on his last legs) playing. When Carrick was at West Ham, we had arguably the best midfield in PL.

 

[Grande]

Carrick spent just 2 years at Spurs, also we had good midfield back then with Scholes, Keane (on his last legs) playing. When Carrick was at West Ham, we had arguably the best midfield in PL.

Yes, my mindwobble. He was at West Ham when I first saw him and wanted him. He was I think 18, and played with the arguably more talented Joe Cole, yet he played so intelligently I wanted him at United. Seven years later, Ferguson bought him. In that seven year period, we grew from being treble winners to seeing Giggs, O’Shea, Kleberson, Djembax2 and Alan Smith in that central midfield.

Maybe we should have bought Carrick at 18 like I wanted, or at 21, but it’s understandable that we didn’t.

 

[7even]

I really wish many, many, many more of our fans saw it this way.

Even if Ole finishes 6th this season... it is IMPERATIVE that he remains manager.

The reason we are in such a mess is down to the thinking from the board that we can get over the post-Fergie blues with a quick fix.

That is why our squad has been such a mess; it has been made up of 4/5 different managers. We keep sacking managers for finishing outside the Top 4. This is not going to make the team/club any better.

We HAVE to stick with one boss and let his philosophy evolve over many seasons. That is the only way we are going to improve and get right back up there. There is no quick fix... we know. Because we tried it. We brought in two of the most decorated managers in European football (LvG andJose), we opened up a cheque book for them (some of the signings were insane; to think that we've signed -and let go - Ibrahimovic, Schweinsteiger, Di Maria, Falcao, Lukaku as well as players like Pogba and Sanchez is just utterly insane! If somebody had have told you in 2014 that these players will come in over the next four years, you'd think they were nuts.

This is not - and never will be - the route back to the top of the Premier League.

We have to give a manager time and patience to evolve his philosophy and his dressing-room spirit until, slowly, but surely, we have the right mentality and belief.

Solskjaer needs to be given the years it will take to make us compete at the top table once again.

If we are sixth come April and fans are on here saying "we ned to get rid and hire (insert 'great manager's name here)", then those are the worst kind of fans to me.

The last words Sir Alex ever said to us fans were this. "It is your job to support your new manager". Personally, I feel the match-going fans were still right behind Davey Moyes right up until he was sacked. Unfortunately, it was the board themselves who didn't take Fergie's words to heart. And now look at the mess we're in fr not backing managers. A squad made up of different parts from five different managers. Insane!

Our job is to support the manager. 3rd, 4th, 5th, 6th, or even 7th place finish this season, we mark it down as groundwork... we back the manager, we go again! The longer we give Ole, the more chance he has of evolving the dressing-room into the dressing-room he wants and a dressing-room that would draw blood for him.

Only then could we start to compete. We have to have a dressing-room that pulls together. You can only get that when the manager is fully backed by everyone at the club.

You would think our fan base - more than any other - would know this. But a huge number don't. Our two big dominant spells at the top table of English/European football came because we gave managers time to evolve a dressingroom and a mentality that they wanted.

Now it's time to do it again.

I would genuinely say that anybody who calls for 'Simeone' or 'Allegri' or whoever to be our manager come April/May next year is the most deluded and disappointing type of Man Utd fan.

I admire your belief and support but I don’t agree with you.

I support Manchester United! Supporting the club isn’t my job, it’s my passion. When things are good I’m happy and when results are bad I’m miserable. That’s how it works and we as supporters have to pay to enjoy our passion, nothing is for free, not even blind love.

In my time with this club I have seen nine managers come and go. Managers are employees and get paid to take care of our first team and they are also accountable for our results. The reason they are top earners is because of the nature of the job. A United manager is followed by millions and judged 24/7.

Sir Alex wasn’t given a life long contract to take care of United for the rest of his life. He earned his time by showing progress and deliver results. According to history he was only one game away from being sacked. It tells us that every United manager are accountable for his results.

After six years of miss management from our board and CEO I agree that we probably has to give Solskjaer some extra time to implement his ideas, but it only works if he shows progress. Results will either help him to continue as manager or get him sacked.

If United don’t finish in top six, maybe top four depending on details in his contract, then I’m 100% sure his gone before next summer. This has nothing to do with your or my support, it’s modern business.

 

[roonster09]

Yes, my mindwobble. He was at West Ham when I first saw him and wanted him. He was I think 18, and played with the arguably more talented Joe Cole, yet he played so intelligently I wanted him at United. Seven years later, Ferguson bought him. In that seven year period, we grew from being treble winners to seeing Giggs, O’Shea, Kleberson, Djembax2 and Alan Smith in that central midfield.

Maybe we should have bought Carrick at 18 like I wanted, or at 21, but it’s understandable that we didn’t.

Maybe if we signed, he wouldn't have developed into great player, he got lot of game time when he was 18-25, he wouldn't have got that at ManUtd. It's always a risk when it comes to young players.

 

[Nikelesh Reddy]

I was dissapointed when Ole was hastily given the job last season,and I continue to harbour serious reservations about his competence to manage a club like this,but I”m definitely going to support him 100% this season.I would love to be proved wrong,and I hope that Ole can succeed at this club.l.

 

[Judas]

He keeps his job if things remain positive and we’re improving and going the right direction, it makes everyone happy at every level.

There’s no rhyme or reason to stick with him if it’s a disaster of a season, obviously. If we don’t look to be going anywhere, if he’s not been able to implicate any particular style to our team, he’ll be gone and rightfully so.

 

[Sassy Colin]

Isn't anyone starting an Ole sack watch thread?

They have ones for Zidane & Lamps.

 

[Patience]

I admire your belief and support but I don’t agree with you.

I support Manchester United! Supporting the club isn’t my job, it’s my passion. When things are good I’m happy and when results are bad I’m miserable. That’s how it works and we as supporters have to pay to enjoy our passion, nothing is for free, not even blind love.

In my time with this club I have seen nine managers come and go. Managers are employees and get paid to take care of our first team and they are also accountable for our results. The reason they are top earners is because of the nature of the job. A United manager is followed by millions and judged 24/7.

Sir Alex wasn’t given a life long contract to take care of United for the rest of his life. He earned his time by showing progress and deliver results. According to history he was only one game away from being sacked. It tells us that every United manager are accountable for his results.

After six years of miss management from our board and CEO I agree that we probably has to give Solskjaer some extra time to implement his ideas, but it only works if he shows progress. Results will either help him to continue as manager or get him sacked.

If United don’t finish in top six, maybe top four depending on details in his contract, then I’m 100% sure his gone before next summer. This has nothing to do with your or my support, it’s modern business.

You contradicted yourself within your own post... See bolded part. Yeah.. it took six years for him to win a major trophy...

United have had two major reigning eras in England. Both the result of biding by a manager who was building something that would take years.

 

[Adam-Utd]

While the team shows progression and Ole plays positively, I will back him 100%

He cannot wave a magic wand, but he can make the right decisions and aim to play the correct way, and that goes a long way to buying himself time.

Right now he's saying everything we want to hear, and his transfers have been spot on.

If in January/summer we can get a LB, RW and a CDM to replace Matic we will be flying.

 

[Eriku]

Isn't anyone starting an Ole sack watch thread?

They have ones for Zidane & Lamps.

Naah, you can pretty much put in your two cents on Ole being sacked in any thread in the United forum, so there’s no need.

 

[Grande]

Sir Alex wasn’t given a life long contract to take care of United for the rest of his life. He earned his time by showing progress and deliver results. According to history he was only one game away from being sacked. It tells us that every United manager are accountable for his results.

After six years of miss management from our board and CEO I agree that we probably has to give Solskjaer some extra time to implement his ideas, but it only works if he shows progress. Results will either help him to continue as manager or get him sacked.

If United don’t finish in top six, maybe top four depending on details in his contract, then I’m 100% sure his gone before next summer. This has nothing to do with your or my support, it’s modern business.

You miss one very crucial point here: Ferguson was given six years because Edwards and the board saw progress and development. Not because you did or the fans did. Four years into his tenure, he would be sacked if it was up to the fans. If it was the fans of today, he would have been sacked in his first season.

The progress and development you are talking about, is 80% invisible to most fans, and 95% to complicated. I wanted Ferguson sacked several times during that period.

In fact, if Woodward checked into Redcafe to read 7even and Grande’s views on wether Solskjær was making progress and development, it would almost be a sackable offence.

 

[Johan07]

United announced the signing of Norwegian teenager Isak Hansen-Aaroen today.
Its interesting from the perspective of that the player seems to be represented by Jim Solbakken who is Solskjaers agent as well and was involved in lot of the transfers of Norwegian players to Cardiff when Solskjaer became manager there.
I really thought Solskjaer would stay away from involving Solbakken in affairs at United because of the controversy regarding the pairs close relationship over the years; not just at Cardiff. It seems like a really dumb idea to potentially bring this issue with him to United as well.
For those interested in the history: http://josimarfootball.com/the-double-agent/
The article has some decent stuff regarding the Obi Mikel transfer which Solbakken was involved with as well.
On the other hand the lad might be a super-talent. I was surprised to see Solbakkens name associated with United transfers though.

 

[Adam-Utd]

United announced the signing of Norwegian teenager Isak Hansen-Aaroen today.
Its interesting from the perspective of that the player seems to be represented by Jim Solbakken who is Solskjaers agent as well and was involved in lot of the transfers of Norwegian players to Cardiff when Solskjaer became manager there.
I really thought Solskjaer would stay away from involving Solbakken in affairs at United because of the controversy regarding the pairs close relationship over the years; not just at Cardiff. It seems like a really dumb idea to potentially bring this issue with him to United as well.
For those interested in the history: http://josimarfootball.com/the-double-agent/
The article has some decent stuff regarding the Obi Mikel transfer which Solbakken was involved with as well.
On the other hand the lad might be a super-talent. I was surprised to see Solbakkens name associated with United transfers though.

http://www.thehardtackle.com/news/2...rpool-and-in-race-to-sign-isak-hansen-aaroen/

We've been linked to him since before Jose was sacked, so seems a club signing. Nothing to worry about.

 

[7even]

Sir Alex wasn’t given a life long contract to take care of United for the rest of his life. He earned his time by showing progress and deliver results. According to history he was only one game away from being sacked. It tells us that every United manager are accountable for his results.

You contradicted yourself within your own post... See bolded part. Yeah.. it took six years for him to win a major trophy...

United have had two major reigning eras in England. Both the result of biding by a manager who was building something that would take years.

You miss one very crucial point here: Ferguson was given six years because Edwards and the board saw progress and development. Not because you did or the fans did. Four years into his tenure, he would be sacked if it was up to the fans. If it was the fans of today, he would have been sacked in his first season.

The progress and development you are talking about, is 80% invisible to most fans, and 95% to complicated. I wanted Ferguson sacked several times during that period.

In fact, if Woodward checked into Redcafe to read 7even and Grande’s views on wether Solskjær was making progress and development, it would almost be a sackable offence.

Hmm. What is it that I’m missing?

Progress...

If I want to be offensive I should add.,

Questions on that subject.,

but we don’t take that road.

Let’s agree that we want the best for all involved and especially Ole Gunnar even if we don’t agree with all small details :-)

 

[Dr. StrangeHate]

If he's able to instill this kind of belief in the players for the full season we'll be alright.

Lots of work to do and midfield signings needed but I watched the game back and we didn't play as badly as I'd initially thought.

You can see the style of play/patterns, along with the way he way he wants the team to press emerging and hopefully things improve as the players get more used to Ole's direction.

So he makes the players feel like they are ten feet tall, while the football world is going down the direction of technical midgets. Just another way he is out of touch with modern football.

 

[Paul InceUlt]

I admire your belief and support but I don’t agree with you.

I support Manchester United! Supporting the club isn’t my job, it’s my passion. When things are good I’m happy and when results are bad I’m miserable. That’s how it works and we as supporters have to pay to enjoy our passion, nothing is for free, not even blind love.

In my time with this club I have seen nine managers come and go. Managers are employees and get paid to take care of our first team and they are also accountable for our results. The reason they are top earners is because of the nature of the job. A United manager is followed by millions and judged 24/7.

Sir Alex wasn’t given a life long contract to take care of United for the rest of his life. He earned his time by showing progress and deliver results. According to history he was only one game away from being sacked. It tells us that every United manager are accountable for his results.

After six years of miss management from our board and CEO I agree that we probably has to give Solskjaer some extra time to implement his ideas, but it only works if he shows progress. Results will either help him to continue as manager or get him sacked.

If United don’t finish in top six, maybe top four depending on details in his contract, then I’m 100% sure his gone before next summer. This has nothing to do with your or my support, it’s modern business.

What if they had jumped the gun and sacked him at that time? Think this is the moment to slow down the sack-rate a bit and give the manager an opportunity to turn things around. I’m liking the development atm.

 

[AshRK]

I think you’ve got A) some lofty expectations and B) something that prevents you from seeing things that are there.

A) We were no 6. We are rebuilding, it’s a several-seasons-project. It is obvious there will be ups and downs. We’ve played six preseason games and won five (plus one shoot out), and we start the season playing last season’s no 3 who also won the EL. First game. If we were carved open most of the game and lost with three goals, it might still have been part of a season of ups and downs. Yet we play a pretty even game, and win 4-0. What do you expect?

B) We had parts of the game we pressed high and it worked, prts were we tried to press high and it didn’t. Parts we stood off medium high because we were cautious/uncertain, parts becaus we wanted to. Sometimes we fell back in a block because Chelsea played well, sometimes because we were goals up and wanted to strike them on the counter. You seem to only have noticed or remember a few parts of the game, perhaps the first parts of the two halves.

It’s one thing to come in after a 4-0 loss darkeyed and pessimistic, it’s one thing to watch a year of football and say something about lack of progress, it’s one thing to see a 4-0 drubbing of a good team and say ‘yes, but let’s not go overboard either’, but it’s something entirely different to wipe out all signs of positivity and go out and declare doom after this season start.

This a very good post. People have to be reasonable with their expectations too. This is Ole's first full season and he was not fully backed by the board. He still has most of the deadwoods which he himself cannot sell. He is still trying to implement his football which we can already witness involved high pressing and more running. It is totally opposite from the previous managers we had. It is a process and it will take time.

 

[Eriku]

So he makes the players feel like they are ten feet tall, while the football world is going down the direction of technical midgets. Just another way he is out of touch with modern football.

Ah, I see where you went wrong there. When saying they feel ten feet tall, he’s actually talking figuratively, and not literally like in your reference to diminutive players.
plzo bite

 

[Johan07]

http://www.thehardtackle.com/news/2...rpool-and-in-race-to-sign-isak-hansen-aaroen/

We've been linked to him since before Jose was sacked, so seems a club signing. Nothing to worry about.

I dont worry about the signing itself, or even that Solbakken was involved. The dude represents most Norwegian talent. It stood out that the Mail noted (or were briefed) that Solbakken was involved and that he is Solskjaer´s agent as well. That was strange for a signing of a 14-year old
There is really no need for more negative publicity around the club and there is a lot the tabloids can do regarding those two and their relationship in the past.
But maybe I am seeing things that are not there. Probably so.

 

[Handré1990]

Looking at the starting XI and the bench, it seems to me it’s pretty obvious that there are several of the senior players Ole doesn’t fancy. Have to wait and see if he has the stones to continue this path, but his comments after Everton doesn’t look quite the lie a lot of posters made them out to be.

He can’t force other teams to buy them, and we absolutely know he can’t force Ed to drop their price tag. What he can do though, is not play them.

 

[crossy1686]

The real test of his presence would be how he'd react to a bad loss or two. See if he can still have that effect when he comes in the dressing room after we get bummed by City or Liverpool.

Ah, the old ‘let’s hope we lose a couple of games to see if Solskjaer’s any good’ theory rides again.

 

[Raw]

Ah, the old ‘let’s hope we lose a couple of games to see if Solskjaer’s any good’ theory rides again.

That's not really what I'm saying. We're gonna lose games, I just want to see Ole still keep the players as focused as they were before.

 

[Amir]

What if they had jumped the gun and sacked him at that time? Think this is the moment to slow down the sack-rate a bit and give the manager an opportunity to turn things around. I’m liking the development atm.

We haven't been sacking the managers too early. I'd say we were more patient than any other big club would be. Moyes, Van Gaal, Mourinho - it was clear we were going nowhere with them long before they were gone.

 

[Amir]

Ihat is why our squad has been such a mess; it has been made up of 4/5 different managers. We keep sacking managers for finishing outside the Top 4. This is not going to make the team/club any better.

I honestly don't think we've been sacking managers for not finishing in the top four. We've been sacking managers for doing a crap job, which resulted in us not finishing in the top four.

To be fair, I'm not judging Solskjaer on placement at all this season. Fourth or sixth, it won't matter. I'd judge him on style, on progress, on improving players. We should know where this is going by the end of the season.

 

[Snuffkin]

Only one factor matters and that is top 4 position. If we qualify for the Champion's League he stays. No qualification means he is certain to be sacked.
No matter what we think as fans. No matter how close we came or refereeing injustices, injuries, or the style of play. Simple as that. If it looks inevitable that we wont qualify, he'll be sacked there and then. No amount of panache will save him.
That said we should be able to qualify, Ole is positivity personified, if the players cant respond then they will be dropped. And if we do qualify the young players will be greatly improved and that will provide a huge benefit for the future.

 

[crossy1686]

That's not really what I'm saying. We're gonna lose games, I just want to see Ole still keep the players as focused as they were before.

I know, I was only joking but there was an undercurrent of people wanting him to lose games back on that 12 game run, just so they could see if he was any good. In other words, they just didn’t want him to be the manager and were trying to find the most obscure angle to give him shit

 

[Withnail]

Ah, I see where you went wrong there. When saying they feel ten feet tall, he’s actually talking figuratively, and not literally like in your reference to diminutive players.
plzo bite

He wasn't being serious... surely?

edit: bleedin white text

 

[He'sRaldo]

I'm not convinced a counter attacking team can truly succeed anymore. It inherently cedes control to the other team, and you then rely on out performance of strikers and defenders. Basically none of the other top teams in Europe consistently play this way, and for good reason.

If you control the match and create more chances than your opponent you're more likely to win it.

Wolves is a huge test, if we're to beat them I definitely think we'll need better control over the match.

I think our identity will evolve as time passes, and as our players mature, especially the forwards.

 

[Gasolin]

I wonder when we can start rotating cause that was really key to keep our shape when winning titles.
We need to rotate and we need the subs to play a big role in the title race, that's how you instill that kind of winning mentality, by involving everyone and working hard during training.

 

[Shiva87]

It's my worry too.

I'm obviously thrilled with the 4-0 win, but I can't get over how poor we looked at times in ball circulation and control.

When we go up against teams who sit back, are we going to be able to break them down? I still think we lack structure during build-up.

This was the first game of the season. Things like this will get ironed out more as the players start gelling together better, and the defence establishes its stability.

 

[tomaldinho1]

He's one from one, +4 GD and a clean sheet. Couldn't have wished for a better start.

I think we all have our worries given what we've seen but he's got us scoring goals, I think we've had a good transfer window and I believe we can make top 4. Which would be real progress.

 

[Grylte]

Isn't anyone starting an Ole sack watch thread?

They have ones for Zidane & Lamps.

I'm sure Rafaeldagold and Ranchero had them written and ready before the Chelsea game, probably have them saved in a text file for our first loss.

 

[Eriku]

He wasn't being serious... surely?

edit: bleedin white text

 

[Dr. StrangeHate]

Ah, I see where you went wrong there. When saying they feel ten feet tall, he’s actually talking figuratively, and not literally like in your reference to diminutive players.
plzo bite

I see where you went wrong there. It was a joke.


Edit: white text nooooooooo

 

[Phil Osophy]

I think Solskjaer is essentialy trying to build a team that can score in any moment and from every situation of the game. Above formations, possession stats and everything else this seems to be the concept behind. It's a refreshing change after the last 6 years of over calculation and conservative dross, and probably that's what saved us against Chelsea in a game where we didn't have much control.

As soon as we got the ball back we tried to damage them and score the second, third, and fourth goal. The key is remaining a threat in attack to keep them in alert, trying to score more goals to kill their hopes and momentum, and I think that's a much better way of defending and protecting us than getting under the posts and praying to the gods.

This is why despite the overall display being unconvincing at times I really like the ideas they're trying to instill. I'm sure that Ole and the staff have the right ambitions and beliefs but they need time to adjust the machine. There's a lot of work to do with this team yet, there's holes in different positions and we're relying also on a good number of young players.

If I'm not wrong our starting line up was the youngest this weekend, and that could be the tendency for the rest of the season. It seems that we are thinking long term this time instead of going for the quick fix, so while there's improvements and a good atmosphere around the team they will keep backing the man for sure, and I'm fine with it.

The only thing I'm not very convinced about at the moment is Pogba in a midfield two. I'm not sure if he's got the mastery to play that role and protect the back of the team efficiently, nor to play the ball quickly under strong pressing in critical zones. He tends to dwell too long on the ball and against Chelsea he had dangerous loses. It's the typical thing that doesn't matter near the opposition box, but near your own one it can cost you the game.

He created two goals amazingly so can still be determinant in attack, but he's limited to isolated moments compared to playing in a midfield 3 with more freedom. That version of Pogba between December and March was the most savage I've ever seen from him. We exploited his talent and physicality while hiding that naivety on his own half of the field, so that role was tailor made for him. I trust Ole's judgment and there must be a reason for that change, so we'll see what happens and how he performs. But I have the feeling that we're wasting part of his qualities there.

 

[Leftback99]

I wonder when we can start rotating cause that was really key to keep our shape when winning titles.
We need to rotate and we need the subs to play a big role in the title race, that's how you instill that kind of winning mentality, by involving everyone and working hard during training.

The less we need to rotate in the PL, the better. It's been too long since we had an obvious first XI, the sooner we work one out the better, the others can get their chances in the cups.

The successful premier league sides recently you can name 9/10 of their starting line ups without even thinking about it, constant injuries and inconsistency of line ups has been an issue for us in recent years.

We're not in a title race though.

 

[ChaddyP]

Seems so we're a team which is ruthless, yesterday we punished all of Chelsea's mistake. We were a bit nervous and easy to pass by in 1st half but when the gates opened we were relentless. Braking quickly on the counter, taking as few touches as possible to come to opposing box. We're a work in progress it seems and a mid or 2 would help greatly.

we could have punished them even more if martial had put away the free chance he got due to Zouma passing error early on