That's not true. Strømsgodset were 2nd in 2012 and won the title in 2013. Rosenborg finished behind them in both occasions.
Ole Gunnar Solskjær | 2021/22 Discussion
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That's not true. Strømsgodset were 2nd in 2012 and won the title in 2013. Rosenborg finished behind them in both occasions.
I understand your concerns and in no way have I even remotely suggested that Ole should be backed blindly or he will be surely successful but all some are saying is he definitely needs this summer window and a pre season.
Ok even if we were to replace Ole now (as of today, less than 6 weeks before the season is about to start and before the transfer window closes), which other so called top manager will join us. If you say Poch, well why would Poch suddenly leave spurs now to join this sinking ship and even if he does would he even have enough time to prepare and sell the deadwood.
Allegri? Again would we fans be happy to see another defensive manager. Also, Allegri would not be managing any club for next year as he will be on sabbatical.
Tuchel? Again why would he leave PSG to join us
Ancelotti? ANother manager who is past his prime and we would again look for short term gains.
SOme other upcoming manager? But again why would someone suddenly join us when the pre season is about to start and what is the guarentee Woodward will suddenly start doing his job effectively or players would join us.
Wenger? Jose? Again Gattuso? Rafa Benitez? Pelligrini?
I am running out of names but I cannot find a suitable appointment that can be done which would make all the fans happy. Again before you make a crazy argument that even someone's grandma can manage better than Ole then I don't have much to say but just that you are an impatient man who is trying to target the wrong person.
Whether Ole is a success or not, only time can tell but right now we have bigger problems to fry. We need to create a structure and bring some stability, sacking Ole would do nothing but create more chaos. We , fortunately or unfortunately, are stuck with Ole now and sacking him RIGHT NOW will do no good.
Skullerud said that? Where? I can understand Swedish and hence some Norwegian. Do you have any direct sources?
It is just as plausible to say that Molde won the league when Rosenborg had a few down years. When Rosenborg returned to form Ole was unable to beat them. As such if Rosenborg hadn't have had those down years he wouldn't have won the league at all. It is also fair to say that (using your line of reasoning) another manager did better than Ole with the same players. Skullerud's point total (unlike Ole's) was superior to what Rosenborg normally achieve.
I don't have time to go further into this but we shall see.
Ole said the following after the defeat by Everton and at no point did he mention team cohesion or structure.
“They beat us on all the basics. The basics you know, long throw in, stick your head in. Our own corner kick, they counter-attack. Their corner, they’re first to the ball. Good strike by the way. The fourth one as well. There’s many chances as well to get rid of the ball. Stick your head in again. So we were beaten on all the things, all the ingredients you need added to your talent.”.
"Basic ingredients in a team performance are running, fitness, that team desire"
His words do not demonstrate a deep understanding of the game.
Our problem first and foremost is our inability to play as a team, not fitness. This problem was there when we were winning as well.
If that is the sort of thing he is telling them in training it is no wonder that the more capable players cannot wait to get out of the club.
Keeping my eye on the ball you still haven't said why Ole deserves this chance and to be honest like with the majority on here I don't actually expect you to do so.
With the exception of Leicester the list of league winners just emphasises that the quality of players is more important than the manager. Put any of them in charge of this squad, they aren't going to win the title. Mancini beat SAF to a title when we had a far better team than now.
Our squad right now is about Everton level. Put Ancelotti in charge would you expect them to finish top 4?
This is simply another example of the "now that something is done we have to live with it" argument as routinely, for example, employed in politics.
You can set this up by delaying the addressing of the question as long as possible until time and circumstances change such that we can now claim that we have no other choice but to continue with the initial decision.
The question as to whether the initial decision was correct is brushed aside in the name of current pressing "more practical concerns".
No that doesn't prove that. You have to consider the pattern NOT singular examples to demonstrate that.
Nothing is brushed aside. I have not seen many saying appointing ole was the correct decision, in fact the club should have been smart and waited till the season finished. Now that is done,we cannot go back to March and rewrite the past. I am just talking logically and saying sacking or replacing Ole at this moment will make us look even more foolish and will just magnify our instability.
All people are saying Ole deserves a transfer window and a preseason. There is nothing political in that just being reasonable.
It had the potential for disaster the moment he penned the contract. Tell us something new..
Nobody looks back at Blackburn under Dalglish or City under Mancini and Pellegrini and talks about the manager being a key factor in those title wins. Its just the best squads at the time, built by money (spent wisely).
My mistake, I meant to refer to back-to-back titles, not just getting in fromt of Rosenborg on the league table.
Could you have managed that City team to a Prem win ?
So far you seem to counter grounded knowledge from someone who has followed the Norwegian league with reading tables and speculating. Your interpretarion of Rosenborgs development underlines that. It doesn’t make your judgements seem very credible, if that’s how you assess information. If you’re not interested in background, and are just interested in winning an argument, you should have just said so.
If you were interested in my opinion on wether Solskjær was the right appointment, it’s easy to find in the previous posts: I don’t know, and I don’t think I have a very solid basis on which to make that judgement either.
Some think they do know, and some base that judgement on a lack of facts or on false reasoning, or they’ve just made their mind up, and have been declaring it every day since December. Hope you’re not one of them, because in the end it doesn’t make for much interesting discussion.
To be honest I don't think sacking him now or around Christmas,October will make a difference now. We should've prepared much better. We should've looked for a new manager at the turn of the year. Now if we sack him we are in the middle of the transfer season with less time to negotiate new deals or identify targets.
I'm not targeting Ole for who he is, but for the type of manager he is. We need a better, experienced manager at the state we are with a recognizable style that would bring us some stability until we take it forward.
We need a manager who will play to our strengths and get most of our current crop of players as sacking 10 players and bringing another 10 is wildly unrealistic.
The season would be a scratch anyway so at least I hope for the next appointment we set a proper structure first and then go for the type of manager we would need.
I'm not saying get the tea lady because she will be better or get a marginally better manager just not be Ole, that doesn't make sense. If we are to sack him we should put someone who is much more credible of making it otherwise there is no point.
For example I wouldn't sack Ole to bring in Nicky Butt as an in house appointment. That would be even worse.
I see a lot of optimism in regards to Ole, but those are just wishful thinking IMO.
If you take the excerpt above. Molde won the title with and without Ole. They finished 6th with him and without him. They finished second in his latest stint and they are top at the table now.
If all is due to Ole, then what does that really mean in regards to tactics, in game changes, rotation, man management? When his assistant can do just as good as job as him? Ole was averaging 55% win in both his stints at Molde. Tor Ole Skullerud 65%, yet in much smaller sample of course, but that really means their result didn't really fluctuate that much when he wasn't managing them.
You can then point that his squad building capabilities and his ability on the market, but then when looking at Cardiff it's really a grim experience.
Here are some quotes during that time:
This is also the man who defended him when they were relegated and put all the blame to Mackay.
Furthermore his defensive record both in Norway and Cardiff is not something he can be proud of and that's one area that we are very weak at:
His defensive records during the current United spell shows also his deficiencies in that respect. Even during our winning run we rarely kept a clean sheet. Since he took over we kept a clean sheet 5 times out of 21 occasions in PL and 2 times out of 8 in the cups.
He was the same pretty much in both stints at Molde and especially valid for Cardiff.
What we saw when he got back at Molde and during his Cardiff stint is that he rotated a lot, he didn't get back to winning ways and didn't win the title since his first double.
Despite money and many recruits he just couldn't identify a spine to build a team around. Again a quote from BBC:
Didn't he just do that with United after fitness went low and we had injuries? There is a clear pattern in his actions if you really delve into it.
When things went to shit he didn't really have an answer for it neither plan B(sounds familiar?).
And what is my biggest concern is that he doesn't really have a Plan A that he identifies a spine and builds around. All those examples of successful managers like Pep and Klopp - they had a clear vision of how football should be played. Yes they underachieved at times, but they didn't drastically change their style or abandon their ideas the way we capitulated after PSG and how far apart we went from our promised style of football.
What I've seen in the end of the season is pretty much underlining what we have so far seen in Solskjaer career - starts on the up (winning 2 titles on the trot at Molde), but then really incapable of turning things round if his ideas doesn't work. Then rotate, rotate until something sticks, which usually doesn't.
We didn't have a particular style in our season end run, no identity, no tactical discipline, no in-game instructions or changes. Nothing.
I just don't see that in Ole.
Of course not. Does that mean Mancini is a better manager than SAF then?
You're right we should sack Ole and get the PL winning Ranieri in. Ticks the experienced box, I assume that's why Fulham got him in for 16 games, how could he fail?
Yeah I am right alright.
Adult: It is better to eat a diet with the DRA of essential vitamins and minerals.
Somebody: Yeah but Ricky Fatton won at the highest level while binging on crap.
Adult: True but you need to look at the broader pattern rather than one or a select few instances.
Somebody: Yeah well maybe I should give up all nice things and just eat Vitamin C.
Adult: Actually that is not what I said but you can run with that if that is how you understood it.
OLE
Could he win games? Yes, He proved it in his first few months until injuries forced key players out.
Could he encourage players ? Yes, He did it when he took over.
Could have done better? Yes but with injuries and out of cups the motivation was at low.
Could he get better? Yes, with few more good signings I think he can get his team play better football.
I still believe in Ole and we just need a spark and I think we have already working on few more players anyway as they knew for a long time Pogba/Lukaku are leaving.
Could he win games? Yes, He proved it in his first few months until injuries forced key players out.
Could he encourage players ? Yes, He did it when he took over.
Could have done better? Yes but with injuries and out of cups the motivation was at low.
Could he get better? Yes, with few more good signings I think he can get his team play better football.
I still believe in Ole and we just need a spark and I think we have already working on few more players anyway as they knew for a long time Pogba/Lukaku are leaving.
The stench of Mourinho (and his acolytes) lingers heavily in this thread. The sooner he gets a new job the better.
Jeez, this is a sad thread. At least wait until the start of the season to complain about everything.
Once again ignoring the question asked. It was specifically about Workrate and how Everton covered 8kms more than ManUtd.You posted same thing few days back asking "what did I miss". I replied saying the question that was asked and now again back with the same nonsense after few days.
Still believe he's the wrong appointment and he'll be gone soon enough. Put my money on us not getting the next selection right either.
I hoped that Ole would get things right but it seems that he has also been swept away by the lunacy of Woodward. What we needed as number one priority is to replace Matic yet there is no talk at all of trying to get this done. The CBs come under undue pressure because of Matic. I also now feel that we need someone with authority and enough experience who can get us to play attractive football to take over United. Ole tries to play attractive football but he is not a heavyweight who can go toe to toe with Woodward. This is the problem. He is like a kid with candy.
True but it is still the right thing to do. If the money is important to him, (which it may be as he was around before the big big wages) then he should publicly slate the glazers and Woodward. He should start it now to be honest. This would have 3 outcomes:
1. The glazers are forced out (Highly unlikely)
2. They are forced to spend money (Slim chance)
3. He gets sacked, takes his money but leaves with some respect and dignity whilst also putting some pressure on the Glazers (Most likely)
So out of curiosity - how succesful will this transfer window have been ( ranging from very happy to very unhappy ) if our transfers dealings in this window ends up with the following:
In: Longstaff, James, Wan Bissaka, Fernandes and one quality defender - for instance Koulibaly
Out: Herrera, Lukaku, Darmian and Rojo
In: Longstaff, James, Wan Bissaka, Fernandes and one quality defender - for instance Koulibaly
Out: Herrera, Lukaku, Darmian and Rojo
...
Some simply think that a positive argument has to be made by or on behalf of the job applicant, and there is nothing unusual or biased about that.
--
Interviewer: Tell me why he is good candidate for this job.
Head Hunter: You think you know he is not suitable. You have already made your mind up. That's not interesting.
--
Manager: I'd like to know why we hired this guy who on paper doesn't seem like the best qualified candidate.
HR: Well we have hired him already so we have to give him a chance.
Manager: But I would like to know why we made that decision in the past. What was the positive case for his appointment at that point in time and what were the counter positions?
HR: I believe we just have to give him a chance to fix stuff.
Some simply think that a positive argument has to be made by or on behalf of the job applicant, and there is nothing unusual or biased about that.
--
Interviewer: Tell me why he is good candidate for this job.
Head Hunter: You think you know he is not suitable. You have already made your mind up. That's not interesting.
--
Manager: I'd like to know why we hired this guy who on paper doesn't seem like the best qualified candidate.
HR: Well we have hired him already so we have to give him a chance.
Manager: But I would like to know why we made that decision in the past. What was the positive case for his appointment at that point in time and what were the counter positions?
HR: I believe we just have to give him a chance to fix stuff.
You seem to confuse yourself with Ed Woodward and me with Ole Gunnar Solskjær. If ‘the manager’ in this example is the Glazers and ‘HR’ is Woodward, I’d like to know who on this forum you think is Joel Glazer writing under a pseudonym.
They would have these conversations, and be privy to knowledge we aren’t. You, me and the debatants on this forum are not. We are not making decisions, so not have to explain nor defend them. We are trying to make sense of what is happening by reading tables, interviews and gossip, trying to sort out the believable information from the unlikely or untrustworthy. Wise people collect as much wisdom as possible, rather than protect their piece of knowledge from the influence of others.
I’m not defending Ed Woodward, lord knows I want him gone or put in a harmless corner. We’ll get ample chance to criticise him again, I’m sure. Let’s do it based on actual knowledge, rather than conjecture.
He probably can't remember when we won the league.
Matic is in the last year of his contract, so he is not an issue, and i personally believe being rushed backed from injuries and playing alot of football over the last few years have caught up with him, Matic game is not based on pace, but reading of the game.
Last season he struggled, but i think he will be alot better come this season with the summer off, in the Uk and in Europe. loads of players who played in the world cup last year, struggled this season, the issue is that spending 50 mill on Fred, and hoping he would hit the ground running last season, the team lack squad depth.
Fred might come good, as he not not a bad player, but has struggled with the pace of the league.
The stench of our most successful manager since Sir Alex you mean.
Ugh, the word acolyte is still lingering. Pretty much never used in any circumstance in real life, used constantly on a man utd forum. Makes me cringe it's not even especially appropriate for how it appears to often be used
Poor kid, I cant blame him and he is right in so many ways and that explains our teams situation. This must change.
We had teams of top players difficult to pick the fav one as most of them were so good but now reached a stage difficult to pick even one.
Absolute legend that kid. Sky sign him up. Says it as it is.
Just sad isnt it. Bearing in mind we were crap in attack last year and didnt score many goals, imagine if we sold our striker and didnt replace him at all. If Lukaku goes, club will surely replace him
If so many managers fail in a row, including a couple of world class ones ... Maybe there's a problem with something else. You can't just put a great manager in a mess of a club and expect him to sort everything out. There are many pieces in this puzzle and they have to fit together.
Quite happy. I'd be ecstatic if we got a fantastic RW too. The striker role will likely be filled with Rashford/Martial/Greenwood which isn't totally ideal as we'd need someone a lot better, but if our overall attacking play improves (and with a top RW) then hopefully they'll be able to carry that weight.
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