Ole Gunnar Solskjær | 2021/22 Discussion

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Bebestation said:
Thanks.

Also @Karlos PFC

The reason he doesn't play VDB in my opinion is because he doesn't have a CDM.

VDB is a centre midfielder that always and I mean always aims to try to get in to CAM positions or even forward.

When you see him lined up next to Fred in a double pivot or Mctominay in a double pivot- what happens? He makes a pass and he instantly goes on a shadow run that is hard to pick by both his opposition and his team mates.

It's a very dangerous thing to play in a double pivot without a CDM.

So who is the CDM we have? Matic.

And who gets played with Matic? Pogba because he is the most creative player out of Donny and Pogba.


The alternative to this is obviously play a 3 man midfield but this would require Bruno to be dropped or again VDB to be more creative than Pogba - but ultimately a Centre Midfielder that aims to move forward in to CAM positions and even at times to SS positions to score a goal is a very dangerous player to play in a double pivot without a CDM.

This is why that now we play the 352 I think the sub version of VDB is going to get more game time. Because he can go and find spaces but defensively we will have quantity even if the quality isn't always there.
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Ok sure, fair enough. I don't agree with the part that VDB passes the ball and goes hiding. From what I've seen he keeps asking for the ball all the time and after he passes he gets into great positions for creating something. Unfortunately for him, he isn't on Ajax and because of our "freestyle" football he doesn't know if his teammates will move and get into positions to pass them the ball.

One of Oles' biggest problem is that he can't utilize his squad and keeps playing the same players regardless of form like Maguire, McFred, Pogba etc. As much as I think Pogba is the better and more creative player, he hasn't got any consistency, so why the hell he won't play VDB instead, why rush Maguire back instead of trying Bailly. Maguire is a very limited defender why rush him back and get a 2/10 performance instead of his usual 4/10 that got him the armband.

Anyway terrible manager, terrible decisions

PS. Not referring to you specifically, but saw a lot of posts claiming about the negativity and how Mou shitted Shaw, Martial etc. But has Ole treated any different VDB, Romero, Dalot, Tuanzebe even Telles?
 
Karlos PFC said:
Ok sure, fair enough. I don't agree with the part that VDB passes the ball and goes hiding. From what I've seen he keeps asking for the ball all the time and after he passes he gets into great positions for creating something. Unfortunately for him, he isn't on Ajax and because of our "freestyle" football he doesn't know if his teammates will move and get into positions to pass them the ball.

One of Oles' biggest problem is that he can't utilize his squad and keeps playing the same players regardless of form like Maguire, McFred, Pogba etc. As much as I think Pogba is the better and more creative player, he hasn't got any consistency, so why the hell he won't play VDB instead, why rush Maguire back instead of trying Bailly. Maguire is a very limited defender why rush him back and get a 2/10 performance instead of his usual 4/10 that got him the armband.

Anyway terrible manager, terrible decisions
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I don't mean that Van De Beek is hiding - he makes shadow striker runs on a double pivot.

It's very intelligent. He gets the ball but makes a run that has gotten past his opposition but sometimes also his own team mates -

But what's the problem with that?

He cannot go on these type of give and go runs when playing with a partner like Mctominay or Fred - he needs a proper shielding CDM that can allow him to do his own thing.

It's a similar reason that Pogba and Fred don't work or Pogba and Mctominay doesn't really work - Pogba lacks defensive ability but doesn't go on marauding runs in a double pivot- Van De Beek is better defensively but can really go on a run and leave someone like Fred playing as a single CDM which he never is or never was.

Matic is the only player who is a proper CDM and its why Matic and Pogba works better in partnership to my eyes than Pogba + Fred or Pogba + Mctominay when I removed the age aspect of things.
 
Anyone who looks at Ole's signings and calls them an overall success needs their head checked. Other than Bruno who was originally a Jose target, and Ronaldo who has volunteered to finish his career here and can hardly be attributed to the current manager, Ole's signings have largely flopped. Some were cheap and came with few expectations, but Maguire is the world's most expensive defender and has not come remotely close to justifying it, Sancho has yet to impress, and Donny will probably turn out to be one of the most embarrassing transfer fiascos in English football since Liverpool paid £35m for Andy Carroll in 2011. Telles, James, Ighali and Diallo all cost a tangible sum of money and amounted to nothing (in fairness, Telles is very young). To top it all off, Pogba, around whom we thought the squad would revolve in the future when Jose signed him, is desperate to flee the club.

Assuming one does not naively regard Ronaldo as some kind of transfer scoop that Solksjær can be credited for, Bruno is literally the one and only transfer during his tenure that has genuinely worked out well. And the groundworks for that were laid by the previous manager, the current one just finished the deal that was waiting for him. Jose wanted him at Spurs in 2019 and that appears to be the only serious competition we faced for his signature. Noone in their right mind could say that Bruno chose us in order to play for Solskjær.

So I really don't see what there is to be positive about with regards to the current manager's transfer history. Some of it might not be his fault entirely - I don't think anyone could have predicted that Sancho would have such a difficult start, given his accomplishments in Germany - but the fact remains that only one signing under Ole has really proven to improve the squad, and that one can only barely be called one of his transfers since Bruno was a target before Ole even arrived.

And as much as I love Ronaldo and appreciate the many times he has saved us already, it doesn't look real good to sign a 36 year old to temporarily paper over the cracks until he finally remembers his mortality, leaving our promising young attackers to take over after sitting in his shadow for however long that turns out to take.
 
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Dansk said:
Anyone who looks at Ole's signings and calls them an overall success needs their head checked. Other than Bruno who was originally a Jose target, and Ronaldo has who volunteered to finish his career here and can hardly be attributed to the current manager, Ole's signings have largely flopped. Some were cheap and came with few expectations, but Maguire is the world's most expensive defender and has not come remotely close to justifying it, Sancho has yet to impress, and Donny will probably turn out to be one of the most embarrassing transfer fiascos in English football since Liverpool paid £35m for Andy Carroll in 2011
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This is the sort of stuff that fans like to post, to suit their narrative.

At no point was Bruno a Jose target. Are you able to show any proof of that?

In the same sentence you mention Maguire as an Ole signing, in actual fact Jose wanted Maguire the season before.

Why do fans need to twist things to suit their narrative?

No club has signings that all come off, they will be signings that don't come off.
 
Sviken said:
Wouldn't save you from crashing into a tree.
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Luis Enrique had the prime Barcelona on the back of his seat when he took over from Pep.

Would he have done better taking over that team or taking over the current Barcelona team with Memphis, no Messi, no iniesta, I don't even know because they are a shadow of their usual selves.


When a manager - hell hopefully even Luis Enrique, him taking over Ole Gunnar Solskjaer's team is better than taking over Van Gaal's, Moyes or Mourinho's.
 
Mainoldo said:
Okay. Sounds like a society issue to me. Which is why I asked for relevance.

What I’m saying now is an opinion and zero facts. Like you saying someone has held racist views for a long time. But our manager claimed to have went to scout a player and turned away when he seen him walk out with a Mohawk. It would be interested to know who that player was.
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Can’t be that many players with a Mohawk? Vidal? That Belgian nutter that I can’t remember the name off
 
Bebestation said:
Luis Enrique had the prime Barcelona on the back of his seat when he took over from Pep.

Would he have done better taking over that team or taking over the current Barcelona team with Memphis, no Messi, no iniesta, I don't even know because they are a shadow of their usual selves.


When a manager - hell hopefully even Luis Enrique, him taking over Ole Gunnar Solskjaer's team is better than taking over Van Gaal's, Moyes or Mourinho's.
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Who knows? But Luis Enrique is a far better manager than Koeman, let's be real here. Valverde also did a decent job despite his squad. The manager is the most important position in football, always has been. Would Rijkaard have achieved the same success if he continued as Barca's manager instead of Guardiola? Almost surely not. I believe we have a squad that is fully capable of challenging for the title, we just don't have the manager to do so.
 
Sviken said:
Who knows? But Luis Enrique is a far better manager than Koeman, let's be real here. Valverde also did a decent job despite his squad. The manager is the most important position in football, always has been. Would Rijkaard have achieved the same success if he continued as Barca's manager instead of Guardiola? Almost surely not. I believe we have a squad that is fully capable of challenging for the title, we just don't have the manager to do so.
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I think most agree but what I don’t agree with is some of the overly exaggerated opinions of how bad he is. He has a 55% win rate since starting the United job, that’s not shoddy at all
 
Sviken said:
Who knows? But Luis Enrique is a far better manager than Koeman, let's be real here. Valverde also did a decent job despite his squad. The manager is the most important position in football, always has been. Would Rijkaard have achieved the same success if he continued as Barca's manager instead of Guardiola? Almost surely not. I believe we have a squad that is fully capable of challenging for the title, we just don't have the manager to do so.
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Another manager is Zidane.

Why do so many people want him as our manager?

Not only because Ronaldo is here. Not only because he won't 3 CL'S in a row.

Another reason is because we have alot of decent to top quality players now that needs to be multi managed like his Real Madrid team got managed like the way he managed Kroos and Modric with Casemiro. Players like Benzema, Bale, Ronaldo, Varane, Ramos, Marcelo etc.


I remember exactly 2 years back people were complaining about -

"City's sub bench is crazy and how we should be like that".


Now our sub bench has players like Sancho or Cavani or Greenwood or Van De Beek or sometimes Pogba, players like Lindelof and Bailly are not our starters anymore and are our subs most of the time.


Zidane taking over Jose Mourinho or Van Gaals squad would have to do much more of a basic restart with ground building work - as would any other manager.
 
golden_blunder said:
I think most agree but what I don’t agree with is some of the overly exaggerated opinions of how bad he is. He has a 55% win rate since starting the United job, that’s not shoddy at all
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55% is great and all, but it really doesn't tell the whole story if we've got nothing to show for.

If a manager had 150 games won and 15 lost but those 15 were finals, semifinals and 0 trophies won, you can't claim that he did a great job to be honest
 
Karlos PFC said:
55% is great and all, but it really doesn't tell the whole story if we've got nothing to show for.

If a manager had 150 games won and 15 lost but those 15 were finals, semifinals and 0 trophies won, you can't claim that he did a great job to be honest
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No but likewise we can’t complain that he’s the worst manager ever and other such nonsense. He is what he is; done a good job but seems he won’t reach that next level
 
Bebestation said:
Zidane taking over Jose Mourinho or Van Gaals squad would have to do much more of a basic restart with ground building work - as would any other manager.
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Let's be honest though, Mourinho did a restart himself. Van Gaal's signings all down to the bone were disastrous. It's not like Mourinho inherited some great squad or soemthing, he laid the groundwork for Ole. And Ole himself cannot be said to have done an amazing job. He spent 500 million for an unbalanced squad that still needs quite a bit of fixing. We need to figure out what to do with Sancho, with DVB (albeit he should play the moment a new manager comes in), what to do with AWB and that donkey Maguire.
golden_blunder said:
I think most agree but what I don’t agree with is some of the overly exaggerated opinions of how bad he is. He has a 55% win rate since starting the United job, that’s not shoddy at all
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But how many of those games can you say we absolutely deserved to win? Most of the games we coast on individual quality. I've seldom seen us dominate any game, even against small teams. The winrate tells me nothing. Remember when Moyes was our manager and people talked about his great winrate compared to Fergie? It's a meaningless stat. Even someone like Roy Hodgson would win most of his games with this squad.
 
NewUser777 said:
No one said tactics didn’t matter.

In a game there is a pass every 7 second.
For every pass there are 3/4 players moving into space.
For every pass there are players closing space
There is a tackle or duel every two minutes
There are more moves available than in a chess game.
A top team runs about 50+ miles, every game

Your sarcasm might defy math, but I highly doubt it apply to the subject matter. Compliance and concentration is the most important attribute. In training, in life and in a football match.
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Thank you for the enlightening breakdown of the elemental basics of football. Ladies is this what being mansplained feels like?
 
Sviken said:
Let's be honest though, Mourinho did a restart himself. Van Gaal's signings all down to the bone were disastrous. It's not like Mourinho inherited some great squad or soemthing, he laid the groundwork for Ole. And Ole himself cannot be said to have done an amazing job. He spent 500 million for an unbalanced squad that still needs quite a bit of fixing. We need to figure out what to do with Sancho, with DVB (albeit he should play the moment a new manager comes in), what to do with AWB and that donkey Maguire.

But how many of those games can you say we absolutely deserved to win? Most of the games we coast on individual quality. I've seldom seen us dominate any game, even against small teams. The winrate tells me nothing. Remember when Moyes was our manager and people talked about his great winrate compared to Fergie? It's a meaningless stat. Even someone like Roy Hodgson would win most of his games with this squad.
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A wins a win for gods sake. That’s what he’s there for to win games
Would i like a more pleasing style? Hell yes
Do i think he’s gone as far as possible? Yes
Do I think he’s the worst manager ever? No that’s just bollox and the stats back that up
 
golden_blunder said:
A wins a win for gods sake. That’s what he’s there for to win games
Would i like a more pleasing style? Hell yes
Do i think he’s gone as far as possible? Yes
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A win is a win, but when you do not have style and rely purely on your players to bail you out, result catch up to performances as we've seen. Not only that, but such coaching is not sustainable and will never amount to any trophies or achievements.
Do I think he’s the worst manager ever? No that’s just bollox and the stats back that up
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Worst manager ever? Well, probably not, but he's one of the worst in the PL, that's for sure. What stats back him up, in your opinion? You give this squad to one of those midtable manager and he'd do the same job or even better. Only thing Ole has is a blank cheque book to buy the best players and the history of playing at the club. That's it. Getting Cardiff relegated, doing just as badly in Championship afterwards and apparently having the fans of Molde being pissed that he is their manager says it all.
 
golden_blunder said:
A wins a win for gods sake. That’s what he’s there for to win games
Would i like a more pleasing style? Hell yes
Do i think he’s gone as far as possible? Yes
Do I think he’s the worst manager ever? No that’s just bollox and the stats back that up
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If Man Utd was my team, I would be frustrated with the board right now, not Ole. I would expect Ole to do everything he could to stay in his job.
 
Karlos PFC said:
If a manager had 150 games won and 15 lost but those 15 were finals, semifinals and 0 trophies won, you can't claim that he did a great job to be honest
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I know you're exaggerating to make a point but that's still not a great example. Winning 150 out of 165 is INSANE. That's a 90% win rate. Even if you lose every final you definitely win a couple of league titles with that showing. Your hypothetical manager would be an absolute legend with a slight issue in knockout competitions.
 
romufc said:
No club has signings that all come off, they will be signings that don't come off.
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I'm fed up with this nonsense. Sancho and VDB have never been integrated into the team. They're very good players, coming from teams that play better footy than us. Minutes are irrelevant if they're never given a run of games and the training sessions don't help you gel with your teammates. Meanwhile overpriced Maguire and AWB start every game. They're more flops than either Sancho or VDB, because they've proven they're not good enough. I'll be very suprised if a good manager comes in and gives AWB and Maguire more minutes than VDB+Sancho.

Also the kids not getting a sniff in is very worrying as well. We need this man out for the good of the club.

Spending 130 million on wingers only to use a wingerless formation is utter madness. We're even benching our 2 brightest academy graduates. It's so incompetent it makes me angry :mad:
 
VanDeBank said:
I'm fed up with this nonsense. Sancho and VDB have never been integrated into the team. They're very good players, coming from teams that play better footy than us. Minutes are irrelevant if they're never given a run of games and the training sessions don't help you gel with your teammates. Meanwhile overpriced Maguire and AWB start every game. They're more flops than either Sancho or VDB, because they've proven they're not good enough. I'll be very suprised if a good manager comes in and gives AWB and Maguire more minutes than VDB+Sancho.

Also the kids not getting a sniff in is very worrying as well. We need this man out for the good of the club.

Spending 130 million on wingers only to use a wingerless formation is utter madness. We're even benching our 2 brightest academy graduates. It's so incompetent it makes me angry :mad:
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What nonsense?

I agree with you, I said not all signings come off as a general in all clubs. This was not a dig at VDB or Sancho.

As I have said on another thread, I think Sancho and VDB are too technical for Ole, he doesn't know how to use technical system players, he prefers players that can provide magic.

Playing AWB and Maguire when they have shockers is a joke, when players like Bailly are waiting. Playing Pogba when he has just been sent off, puts in another stinker, yet ignoring Donny.

You cannot chase a winger for 2 years only to drop him, its negligent management.

I am exactly the same as you, I am frustrated with his management, the sooner he leaves the better.
 
I feel like he has lowered standards for the people at the club and players. A late comeback against Atalanta is as good as a comfortable win because we showed fight and spirit. People at the club are also desperate to keep him. He has sold them the idea that he's on the right track to playing 'the United way and there will be a few hiccups(5-0 defeat) but there is light after the tunnel
 
jamesjimmybyrondean said:
I feel like he has lowered standards for the people at the club and players. A late comeback against Atalanta is as good as a comfortable win because we showed fight and spirit. People at the club are also desperate to keep him. He has sold them the idea that he's on the right track to playing 'the United way and there will be a few hiccups(5-0 defeat) but there is light after the tunnel
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United way, he has brought back late goals. The Fergie time goals that won us all those titles.

In my opinion, there is no light at the end of Ole's reign. I could see some improvement last season, was hoping that a clean pre season he will get us playing better. Unfortunately, I was massively deluded, he cannot coach a football club to trophies.

Its becoming annoying that the club cannot see this and keep protecting him. We could lose 6-0 tomorrow and him still be smiling at the end. The club will have 2 weeks to firefight and hope the international break distracts fans.
 
This will be Ole Gunner's swan song. It's been interesting for sure Ole. Some good times, some bad times, some horrible times, etc. All the best after City. Your friend, Orlando
 
NewUser777 said:
Maybe you should look at it as a response to a post, rather than a statement? Just a thought.
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I did and it doesn’t further your argument whatsoever. What you were so kind to describe, because for some reason you don’t think we understand how football works, is precisely what requires high levels of tactical organization. Seems like you scored an own goal with that argument.
 
UDontMessWith24 said:
I did and it doesn’t further your argument whatsoever. What you were so kind to describe, because for some reason you don’t think we understand how football works, is precisely what requires high levels of tactical organization. Seems like you scored an own goal with that argument.
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We? I’m confused. You recognised my “elementary”point of my post, which was the point in the first place. That it’s elementary, and actually the biggest part of football. Call it elementary basics, but then say I’m wrong? Which one is it? I Suspect you didn’t read his initial post at all. I feel like I’m trapped in a circle.
 
NewUser777 said:
We? I’m confused. You recognised my “elementary”point of my post, which was the point in the first place. That it’s elementary, and actually the biggest part of football. Call it elementary basics, but then say I’m wrong? Which one is it? I Suspect you didn’t read his initial post at all. I feel like I’m trapped in a circle.
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This is a message board full of life long football fans, many of which likely played the game. We don’t need the basics explained to us were well aware football requires passing and running. Any U12 side understands that. You’re overemphasizing the importance to further your argument, which is why you’re going around in a circle. Where to run, where to pass, where will there be space against a particular opposition in accordance with how they defend, when to press and in what areas according to a particular oppositions passing patterns, which players are more susceptible to pressing, etc…
 
UDontMessWith24 said:
This is a message board full of life long football fans, many of which likely played the game. We don’t need the basics explained to us were well aware football requires passing and running. Any U12 side understands that. You’re overemphasizing the importance to further your argument, which is why you’re going around in a circle. Where to run, where to pass, where will there be space against a particular opposition in accordance
UDontMessWith24 said:
This is a message board full of life long football fans, many of which likely played the game. We don’t need the basics explained to us were well aware football requires passing and running. Any U12 side understands that. You’re overemphasizing the importance to further your argument, which is why you’re going around in a circle. Where to run, where to pass, where will there be space against a particular opposition in accordance with how they defend, when to press and in what areas according to a particular oppositions passing patterns, which players are more susceptible to pressing, etc…
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You lost me now. You alright mate? I’m not the one taking the piss about Oles compliance and “who wants it more” comment. Do you think the two are seclusive?
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Seems we have a miss understanding. I’m taking the piss out of your desperate defense of those comments.
 
""He's still a doubt, but hopefully, he can come back in tomorrow and say he's ready... I would expect him to be ready, put it that way but I can't promise you."

So he still wanna play guys who aren't fit for big games...
 
UDontMessWith24 said:
Seems we have a miss understanding. I’m taking the piss out of your desperate defense of those comments.
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Not as much misunderstanding as confusion, I think. Seeing as I said he was right, You saying so yourself. Even learning about it, like the scholar you are - when you where 12.. Is that why you are so angry? Because I said he was right? Seems a few of you get extremely hurt if anyone point out ole got a point. You seem a little desperate there yourself, friend. Are you sure you are ok?
 
jamesjimmybyrondean said:
I feel like he has lowered standards for the people at the club and players. A late comeback against Atalanta is as good as a comfortable win because we showed fight and spirit. People at the club are also desperate to keep him. He has sold them the idea that he's on the right track to playing 'the United way and there will be a few hiccups(5-0 defeat) but there is light after the tunnel
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This is my concern. He does actually think we are close!

Close to fecking collapse more like.

Watch out for more shite today
 
Siorac said:
I know you're exaggerating to make a point but that's still not a great example. Winning 150 out of 165 is INSANE. That's a 90% win rate. Even if you lose every final you definitely win a couple of league titles with that showing. Your hypothetical manager would be an absolute legend with a slight issue in knockout competitions.
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Of course I'm exaggerating, but you got my point.
It's just that I've never wanted Ole as a permanent and all these "goods" he did at the club is also a bit over exaggerated.

Loved Ole the player, I consider him a legend of our club. But Ole the manager is truly terrible. If he won't win anything, he will be remembered as th manager who spent over 300m in 3 years, hasn't got a certain style of play, no rotation, no academy players (except his 1st season), keeps lowering our expectations and finally hasn't won anything for he keeps bottlingit when it really matters.
 
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