Confirmation that you're just a WUM.
Ole Gunnar Solskjær | 2021/22 Discussion
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Confirmation that you're just a WUM.
I don't necessarily want him sacked immediately, but we need to look at the larger picture now, not handpicked periods that suit.
Over almost 3 years he has flattered to deceive. We look clueless a lot of the time. Last season and seasons prior he always had an excuse; fatigue, not his players, take your pick. Now, however, the excuses need to stop and we need to see real improvements and a genuine title challenge.
We have followed an almost consistent pattern with Ole, a slow start with some terrible performances, a more robust mid season, with a few good performances before we tail off with a dozen or so games left. That simply isn't good enough anymore. You can make all the excuses you want, but he had to deliver this season.
And no one is saying otherwise. In the last 2 seasons, our target was top 4 which were met.
It's title challenge this time around and should he fail, I think most of us will be fine letting him go
Completely agree with this as well.
The style of play is similar, both make strange substitutions (or none at all!), both very limited managers with fantastic squads, that are out of their depth.
But we have to be prepared for damage limitation. We cannot let this season unravel in the hope he'll turn it around. If we're 10 pts off 1st by mid November IMO we should wish him well in his future endeavours.
Of course, if you've concluded that Ole is never going to win us a major trophy, then there's not really anything more to discuss. But personally I don't think that's warranted at this point. Also, I don't agree that what we're getting is "short-termism".
I don't think that's an accurate description of reality. He's delivered very good results over his first two seasons, better than could be reasonably expected. He's entering this season with a surplus of credit, not with a deficit.
It's very accurate.
Then what would be the point? McKenna and Carrick are even a bigger problem than Ole since I'm sure Ole doesn't really run our training or tactics all that much.
Where does this come from? He's spent more than 300 million on players in 2 season and delivered nothing really except a CL qualification. "Good results"... how the hell? In a similar scenario Klopp spent less than 300 million and gave Liverpool their long awaited PL and a CL to boot. On top of playing absolutely beautiful football. When Klopp took Liverpool, they were dreadful. When Ole took over United, we were in the process of a bad season, but generally under Mourinho we did the same that Ole did with the addition of actual trophies. Now I'm not comparing Ole to Klopp, that's ridiculous. But the problem is that even if we discount that comparison, spending close to 500 million over 3 seasons and still not delivering ANYTHING except the bare minimum is really, really bad. Even in terms of performances we're dreadful and unenjoyable to watch.
I've said my piece on the matter, it's just my opinion and of course you're entitled to your opinion.
We're not going to see eye to eye on it so it's pointless going around and around. Ultimately we'll just see what happens over time
On what planet are 66 and 74 league finishes "better than could be reasonably expected"? And obviously the less said about our performances in Europe the better.
Of course that goes without saying. Hell, if he (or any other manager) wins the treble, even then I'd say have a list of potential candidates in place if something happens.
And to the 2nd point, unless we crash out of CL in GS and he loses the dressing room, I don't see his job in danger till atleast end of Feb
Er NO.
It's called a RE-BUILD.
So you think you can go into a club and taking over a toxic, dead wood filled club, like the position Man Utd were in and get them all singing a tune and "Patterns of Play" and become a world title building team in 12 months.
How about no.
Look at the LVG, Mourinho tenures. They came in and made the team have patterns of play, LVG more so than Mourinho. As LVG had a CLEAR pattern of play. Look how those appointments turned out.
Ole had to come in rip out all of LVG's mediocre signings on huge wages and fix the toxic environment that was in the club and then put his stamp on things. Which he is doing now.
How dare you call me a fecking WUM.
It takes time to build something. It takes patience. Which fans fail to understand.
Then it has been 3 years not 7 days yes ? 3 years of 0 improvement inside the pitch.
Nope
The rebuild has taken 3 years yes, but HIS club and HIS team is right now.
If you can't see the improvement the team has gone under, there's no convincing you of anything.
Guess 6th to 2nd isn't good enough of an improvement.
Why wasnt last year his team though ? We fail to won EL against Villareal with his team. Mou got us to win the EL as much as I dislike him.
6th to 2nd after spending almost the same amount of Saint Pep is not something to be proud of. Moyes done a far better job with West Ham then if that is your metric without spending half billion
After £400m and 3 years, no it isn't good enough. 66 to 74 points is a pathetic 'improvement', frankly. And that's before we get to how abysmal our performances generally are, and not just against the top sides or in Europe either.
Because it was clear we still needed and Ole wanted another CB, a CB who can play out from the back better, hence why we got Lindeloff. It was also clear our right side was an issue, which is why we got Sancho. It was also clear we needed a ST, so we got Ronaldo. It is much more his team now than his team last year. Cavani didn't play all of the games last year either.
Who said anything about a metric, and to be specific 'my metric'??
You can't exactly compare us to West Ham of all teams. West Ham can afford to buy players at a cheaper rate because, well, their West Ham, Man Utd tax and all that.
Lots of money can be spent but high transfer doesn't always equate to good player. Take a look at Hazard at Madrid for that. We spent too much on too many mediocre players during LVG's reign and now we're paying the price for it.
A 'pathetic improvement eh?' so you'd be just as upset with the club if we had still spent the same amount of money and we finished 5th, 6th, 7th, the last 3 years would you? How much of a 'pathetic' performance would that be?
You also can't use points as a metric for improvement either. Year on year other teams are getting more points, the league is getting more and more competitive. So there won't be such a steep rise in points gained. As long as the points you attain get you higher up the league, who really gives a feck. I'd take winning the league on 66 points if that's what winning the league requires.
By that logic, would you move the goal posts if Ole wins the league? Would the excuse be Liverpool, City, Chelsea all had a poor season? Would it be one of them had a really bad injury? What would it be? What would your excuse be to still get him to go?
Yep, although at least we won 3 trophies in those years. I'd take that over reliably finishing in the top four and then embarrassing ourselves in the CL group stage the following season.
Yes you can use points. No, year on year most teams are not getting more points, even if the eventual titles winners might have the last couple of seasons. For the rest of the league it's actually the opposite. Finishing second place with only 74 points case in point. Usually 74 points would be fighting for top four. Usually 66 points wouldn't be good enough for top four.
Nope. But there's no chance of that.
After we lost 1-2 agains the Swiss team in CL.
Ive watched Barca - Bayern.
You see these passing triangles all over the field, from both teams.
Pass and move, pass and move. (and not just move, but moving into the right area).
Has anyone ever seen our side create passing triangles? Genuine question.
Ive watched Barca - Bayern.
You see these passing triangles all over the field, from both teams.
Pass and move, pass and move. (and not just move, but moving into the right area).
Has anyone ever seen our side create passing triangles? Genuine question.
You're a WUM.
You've actually claimed this year is his first year of a rebuild, despite having been here for almost 3 years. I've seen your posts across the forum and if you're not a WUM (which is looking very unlikely based on your posts) you're fecking delusional.
I am not a wum, I can assure you of that.
If you can't read what I've put and explained why I believe that this is is first full year of having his team. Then you're more blinkered than you believe I am.
Stick me on Ignore.
I'll state it again, how dare you call me a WUM. Based on my own personal opinion?
??? So Ole wanted a ball playing centreback so he bought Lindelof, despite Lindelof already being here? You're such an obvious troll. How are you not banned?
I'm not sure how any fan can pretend to have knowledge of how coaches perform behind the scenes.
Based on your confrontational, wummy posts. The fact you're getting so upset by it shows you at least recognise that to an extent.
Having your view is fine, but it's your very subjective list of excuses. The this is the first year on his rebuild takes the cake for the stupidest take I've seen on this forum in a long time.
I'll continue to call you a wum and call out your wummy posts while you continue to spew such nonsense.
Moyes as a fecking metric
You may also recall how Moyes took the reigning Champions to sixth place once, right?
I'd like an apology please:
Victor Lindelof: Manchester United sign £31m Benfica defender (2017)
The Sweden international, 22, travelled to Manchester on Wednesday to discuss terms and have a medical.
Lindelof, who has won 12 caps for Sweden, becomes United's most expensive defender, overtaking the £29.1m paid for Rio Ferdinand in 2002.
"I'm thrilled," said Lindelof, who joins on a four-year contract with an option for a fifth year.
The centre-back made 47 appearances as Benfica won a Portuguese domestic double last season.
"I have enjoyed my time at Benfica enormously and I have learned a lot there," he said. "But I'm looking forward to playing in the Premier League at Old Trafford and for Jose Mourinho.
"I'm keen to get started and make my contribution to the team's efforts to win more trophies."
Mourinho said: "Victor is a very talented young player, who has a great future ahead of him at United.
"Our season last year showed us that we need options and quality to add depth to the squad and Victor is the first to join us this summer."
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/40236474
Feck me, Ole is so great he was signing players before he even arrived. Truly magical stuff
Yeah, as long as you think tallying up the transfer spend represents a meaningful measure of expected results over the same period. Which it of course isn't. Also, you need to get a grip on where we actually were when OGS took over, which was in crisis. No one expected United to win anything in 19/20, and the focus was firmly - and rightly - on doing a proper rebuild job.
Don't know what you thought ahead of 19/20, for my part I thought 5th place looked like a reasonable aim. That was without knowing our two best offensive players would be out with injuries for long periods. Luckily, it was also without knowing we'd buy a transformative player in late January. But in any case, where we were at the end of that season was well ahead of anything I'd expected at the beginning of it.
For 20/21, with the limited reinforcements in that transfer window, I expected further progress. Which we got. All good.
Now with major signings this summer, there is every reason to expect us to perform at roughly the same level as the other 3 top clubs. We haven't so far. But come on, "3 years and 300 million, where are my trophies?", that's just crude.
You know Ole isn't Mourinho right?
Yes, I know.
I'm passionate about the club but also self aware enough to know when I made a tit of myself. This Lindeloff/Varane thing, is one of those times.
On the real one. Not the one where fans count transfer money and feel insulted they haven't got a trophy.
Yeah that is a good one. Hope to see it more often, sadly I feel like its not a common occurence.
@UnitedSofa You’ve had an absolute mare in this thread. I suggest logging out and giving yourself a break pal.As long as you're self aware!Yes, I know.
I'm passionate about the club but also self aware enough to know when I made a tit of myself. This Lindeloff/Varane thing, is one of those times.
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