Ole Gunnar Solskjær | 2021/22 Discussion

[Godfather]

We came 2nd in the best and hardest league in the world. Hardly crime of the century is it yet our fans behave like we came 16th. It's utterly bizarre.

Some go over the top. However most simply hoped to see a proper improvement from last season right from the start. We don't see that at the moment though. We significantly strengthened our squad but look quite toothless. Let's hope it's just because our new signings need time to bed in but I have my doubts. It feels like Ole might have reached his ceiling as a manager.

 

[OrcaFat]

Touche. Just as well the conversation I was having wasn't stating anything of the sort.

Alright. But did I misunderstand that you don’t support Ole? Not that it matters.

 

[Robbie Boy]

Alright. But did I misunderstand that you don’t support Ole? Not that it matters.

Yep, totally misunderstood. Read my follow up post or any other posts for that matter.

 

[pocco]

We came 2nd in the best and hardest league in the world. Hardly crime of the century is it yet our fans behave like we came 16th. It's utterly bizarre.

Christ. Don't you remember what was going on at Liverpool, Chelsea and Spurs last season? To call it the hardest league last season has to be a bit of a stretch. The fact Liverpool finished so close was an absolute joke really.

We finished as close to 7th place as we did 1st too.

 

[Giggsy13]

Christ. Don't you remember what was going on at Liverpool, Chelsea and Spurs last season? To call it the hardest league last season has to be a bit of a stretch. The fact Liverpool finished so close was an absolute joke really.

We finished as close to 7th place as we did 1st too.

That’s what a lot of people don’t understand or appreciate, we finished 5 points ahead of the scousers when they suffered significant injuries and had a horrid run of form at home. I suppose some are satisfied being the Arsenal of the northwest.

 

[Dve]

Christ. Don't you remember what was going on at Liverpool, Chelsea and Spurs last season? To call it the hardest league last season has to be a bit of a stretch. The fact Liverpool finished so close was an absolute joke really.

We finished as close to 7th place as we did 1st too.

Yeah, and the CL final was Barcelona vs Real Madrid. I think.

 

[pocco]

Yeah, and the CL final was Barcelona vs Real Madrid. I think.

What's that got to do with anything?

 

[Dve]

What's that got to do with anything?

One would think that the European competitions somehow mirror the strength of different leagues. I can´t remember having seen a Lithuanian team winning any European trophies, but hey, maybe their league is fantastic anyway.

 

[Paxi]

One would think that the European competitions somehow mirror the strength of different leagues. I can´t remember having seen a Lithuanian team winning any European trophies, but hey, maybe their league is fantastic anyway.

Pity we crashed and burned in said competition.

 

[Andrew7582]

One would think that the European competitions somehow mirror the strength of different leagues. I can´t remember having seen a Lithuanian team winning any European trophies, but hey, maybe their league is fantastic anyway.

How do you explain us getting knocked out of the group stage of CL and then failing to win the europa league then?

 

[pocco]

One would think that the European competitions somehow mirror the strength of different leagues. I can´t remember having seen a Lithuanian team winning any European trophies, but hey, maybe their league is fantastic anyway.

Whilst you do have a point generally speaking, the logic doesn't quite work when you try to apply it to the PL because Chelsea were way off (9th!) until they canned Lampard. Tuchel arrived in time to get them the CL but couldn't influence the PL standings enough in such a short time. City are obviously very good and finished way ahead of us anyway, it's not like we stacked up well against them.

The rest were poor, even they would admit that. Liverpool you would have expected to finish ahead of us but when you have to play your CM at CB and a second choice CM, I think they have an excuse.

 

[Paxi]

Is that a vote of confidence?

Edit: never mind, it’s paper talk from the sun.

 

[anant]

Is that a vote of confidence?

Edit: never mind, it’s paper talk from the sun.

We just gave Phelan a contract extension, are planning on extending contracts of Carrick and McKenna. Dont need papers to tell that the board is backing Ole

 

[Robbie Boy]

Is that a vote of confidence?

Edit: never mind, it’s paper talk from the sun.

Given he only signed a new deal this summer, he's most definitely being backed 100%. I imagine these latest renewals have been on the cards for a-few months now, and aren't spontaneous.

It's really no big deal, though. The pressure to deliver this season will remain the exact same, and a poor season will see them all moved on, in all likelihood. The general consensus is that if our poor performances continue, we could be well off the pace come the start of December. If that's the case, the pressure will really be on Ole. Given our Board aren't reactive, compared to other clubs, I think Ole will see the season out no matter what.

 

[Dve]

How do you explain us getting knocked out of the group stage of CL and then failing to win the europa league then?

The explanation is certainly not because the Spanish league is stronger than the PL. The budget of a mid-table PL teams is incomparable to a mid-table Spanish side.

 

[Dve]

Whilst you do have a point generally speaking, the logic doesn't quite work when you try to apply it to the PL because Chelsea were way off (9th!) until they canned Lampard. Tuchel arrived in time to get them the CL but couldn't influence the PL standings enough in such a short time. City are obviously very good and finished way ahead of us anyway, it's not like we stacked up well against them.

The rest were poor, even they would admit that. Liverpool you would have expected to finish ahead of us but when you have to play your CM at CB and a second choice CM, I think they have an excuse.

While we fell off after the demonstrations at Old Trafford where we had to play our B team in two of the matches + we had no preseason. If we are stacking up excuses for the other teams, we cannot just blindly overlook factors in our disadvantage. Maybe we could have had 10 points more.

The question, however, was which league is the most competitive, and of course that has to be the PL, although I would agree that one CL season is not sufficient as proof alone, while this may be an indication:

https://www.uefa.com/memberassociations/uefarankings/country/#/yr/2022

 

[Andrew7582]

The explanation is certainly not because the Spanish league is stronger than the PL. The budget of a mid-table PL teams is incomparable to a mid-table Spanish side.

Did the european campaigns of the two teams that finished 2nd and 3rd in the premier league ''mirror the strength'' of the premier league? Liverpool knocked out in the quarters by a spanish team and United failing to get out of the group and then failing to win the europa league. Chelsea's form only turned around after Tuchel came in, they were having a very poor season up to that point. The premier league really wasn't very strong last season, chelsea and liverpool were in a sorry state for most of it. But apparently finishing second under such conditions, a long way behind the leaders is some impressive achievement. I predicted long ago that this season would be a reality check for us once our rivals sorted out their very fixable issues, and we are starting to see that now.

 

[pocco]

While we fell off after the demonstrations at Old Trafford where we had to play our B team in two of the matches + we had no preseason. If we are stacking up excuses for the other teams, we cannot just blindly overlook factors in our disadvantage. Maybe we could have had 10 points more.

The question, however, was which league is the most competitive, and of course that has to be the PL, although I would agree that one CL season is not sufficient as proof alone, while this may be an indication:

https://www.uefa.com/memberassociations/uefarankings/country/#/yr/2022

Without looking at the link, I will say that I do think the PL is the best league in the world and the most competitive. However, last season it simply wasn't at it's usual standard in my opinion. Though the English two, Chelsea and City, pulled it together to do well in Europe. Had Tuchel started the season at Chelsea then I think you'd have seen 2 rivals at their best rather than just City. But you can't ignore what went on at Liverpool. Imagine we had a season of Matic and McTominay in defence with Pogba, Fred and Mata (or Pereira... whoever) in midfield. Damn if it wasn't rightly rolled out as a massive excuse for Ole.

So yes, on paper it's the best in the world. Last season, not for me. We'll probably see it at it's best this year, let's see how we go on. With our squad we should be competing all the way for the title.

 

[Dve]

Did the european campaigns of the two teams that finished 2nd and 3rd in the premier league ''mirror the strength'' of the premier league? Liverpool knocked out in the quarters by a spanish team and United failing to get out of the group and then failing to win the europa league. Chelsea's form only turned around after Tuchel came in, they were having a very poor season up to that point. The premier league really wasn't very strong last season, chelsea and liverpool were in a sorry state for most of it. But apparently finishing second under such conditions, a long way behind the leaders is some impressive achievement. I predicted long ago that this season would be a reality check for us once our rivals sorted out their very fixable issues, and we are starting to see that now.

Haha, let´s give it a couple more weeks, shall we. Last season, I´m sure you predicted he would be sacked by Christmas. Instead we were top of the league.

 

[Dve]

Without looking at the link, I will say that I do think the PL is the best league in the world and the most competitive. However, last season it simply wasn't at it's usual standard in my opinion. Though the English two, Chelsea and City, pulled it together to do well in Europe. Had Tuchel started the season at Chelsea then I think you'd have seen 2 rivals at their best rather than just City. But you can't ignore what went on at Liverpool. Imagine we had a season of Matic and McTominay in defence with Pogba, Fred and Mata (or Pereira... whoever) in midfield. Damn if it wasn't rightly rolled out as a massive excuse for Ole.

So yes, on paper it's the best in the world. Last season, not for me. We'll probably see it at it's best this year, let's see how we go on. With our squad we should be competing all the way for the title.

The league is not only about the top teams, and since we did quite bad against them anyway last season, Liverpool´s and Chelsea´s lack of form did not influence our point tally much.

Not sure what´s the point of this discussion anyway, other than to dismantle our second place. The bottom line is that the results we´ve had the last two seasons have been good enough to earn Ole another shot at it, and we´ll see in May where we are then. He´ll be judged by actual results - not by speculations about what could have been if this or that.

 

[Anustart89]

In José's final season, we were four points worse off after 7 games (having played Leicester and Tottenham out of the competitive teams). Those were then followed by ten points in four games leaving us at 20 points from 11 games. That means that we need to get 6 points from Leicester, Liverpool, Spurs and City to match the meltdown season stats after eleven games points-wise.

 

[Andrew7582]

Haha, let´s give it a couple more weeks, shall we. Last season, I´m sure you predicted he would be sacked by Christmas. Instead we were top of the league.

Certainly not, i predicted a comfortable top 4 finish. Expectations have rightly changed now given the amount of time Ole has been in the job, and the very impressive summer window that we had. I'm not predicting for him to be sacked by christmas this season either by the way, with a more proactive board it could happen but not with the board we have.

 

[OrcaFat]

Yep, totally misunderstood. Read my follow up post or any other posts for that matter.

I take your word for that of course and apologies.

I went about it the wrong way but the point I was making was many don’t support Ole even though they know he won’t be sacked. The more rational thing (if one supports the team) is to support the manager until he actually does get sacked instead of bleating and stinking the place out with insults and negativity. There’s a world of difference between querying or discussing decisions or tactics vs the common practice of saying he’s the worst manager in the league and all the other worthless hacking that goes on. I suspect many of these posters are simply not supporters of United. But, again, apologies if my post was lumping you in with that type.

 

[Client6]

I take your word for that of course and apologies.

I went about it the wrong way but the point I was making was many don’t support Ole even though they know he won’t be sacked. The more rational thing (if one supports the team) is to support the manager until he actually does get sacked instead of bleating and stinking the place out with insults and negativity. There’s a world of difference between querying or discussing decisions or tactics vs the common practice of saying he’s the worst manager in the league and all the other worthless hacking that goes on. I suspect many of these posters are simply not supporters of United. But, again, apologies if my post was lumping you in with that type.

Thank you for saying this - I have seen quite a few on here who say "I know Ole won't be sacked until he mathematically misses out on top 4 in the league and I am resigned to that fact" but then go on to stink up the place with "Ole you clueless PT teacher shit coach stealing a living". And to say that about Ole Gunnar Solksjaer of all people. What the feck?! Give your heads a wobble. Most of them can't even come up with an apt replacement manager because all they want is someone who's going to win trophies with United right away at any cost so that they feel good about themselves for a day or two.

I mean the manager, the coaches, and the players - all are trying to pull in the same direction, and genuinely want best for the club. Get behind the team FFS, especially when they are down. Get behind the club.

 

[Blood Mage]

It feels like the media pressure is building on Ole. The BBC main headline on their sport page is that Sir Alex said "you should always start your best players". I can't remember this much talk about his future for a long long time. A poor result against Leicester and I think we'll be talking about "X games to save his job"

He'll need to lose several games on the bounce before that happens. And we definitely won't drop points against Leicester right now, they're a bigger shambles than us.

 

[UnofficialDevil]

 

[ReallyUSA]

In José's final season, we were four points worse off after 7 games (having played Leicester and Tottenham out of the competitive teams). Those were then followed by ten points in four games leaving us at 20 points from 11 games. That means that we need to get 6 points from Leicester, Liverpool, Spurs and City to match the meltdown season stats after eleven games points-wise.

Knowing Ole he will get 12, we will have our false dawn, then he will feck up again. Then we will be here again. Rinse and repeat.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

We came 2nd in the best and hardest league in the world. Hardly crime of the century is it yet our fans behave like we came 16th. It's utterly bizarre.

2nd in a weak PL season. Nice but similar to Jose's 'achievement'.

Nobody considers it a crime. But its definitely shocking that fans of one of the world's biggest and richest clubs expect excellence not being decent (a point missed by most).

 

[amolbhatia50k]

One would think that the European competitions somehow mirror the strength of different leagues. I can´t remember having seen a Lithuanian team winning any European trophies, but hey, maybe their league is fantastic anyway.

Yes, Chelsea's performance in the league last year should be guaged not by their performance in the league last year but their performance in Europe.

 

[EtH]

2nd in a weak PL season. Nice but similar to Jose's 'achievement'.

Nobody considers it a crime. But its definitely shocking that fans of one of the world's biggest and richest clubs expect excellence not being decent (a point missed by most).

Yup. And trumpeting any league position but first is for Arsenal fans.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

Yup. And trumpeting any league position but first is for Arsenal fans.

I agree. Unless you're a club that has a tight budget or has run the top team very close after a long time (Liverpool in 18/19), don't think one should be hailing the 'achievement'. It's a decent step in the right direction but many feel the football wasn't/isn't headed towards the top - for example Liverpool in 17-18 when they finished 4th generated more hope than we did on either occasion of finishing 2nd.

 

[YeahYeah]

Its actually funny that while we improved so much, we actually got worse and personally I think its because fitting in Ronaldo primarily requires some serious coaching now. Its not easy.
When Bruno was running the show, things just worked. Remember, we were 8th before we got Bruno and then we went on that great run and well we have been pretty good since.
Bruno is like Ole's dream player. Ole relies on individual brilliance of players and Bruno loves a free role and he can deliver. It was a perfect match.

However things have changed. Bruno needs a more structured role now and Ronaldo requires a change of gameplay and possibly a change of formation too. He is not a conventional player at this point but we need to build around him and Oles formation is very conventional.
The arrival of Ronaldo is probably way too much for Ole.

On the other hand players like Bruno and Cavani perfect for him as Oles whole philosophy according to him is 'well there are 6's, 8's and 10's'..his whole philosophy is very simplistic.

And to add to all of that...teams just figured us out. We are very easy to play against despite our individual brillliance. Perhaps even a more important point than the Ronaldo one.

 

[YeahYeah]

In José's final season, we were four points worse off after 7 games (having played Leicester and Tottenham out of the competitive teams). Those were then followed by ten points in four games leaving us at 20 points from 11 games. That means that we need to get 6 points from Leicester, Liverpool, Spurs and City to match the meltdown season stats after eleven games points-wise.

Speaking of Jose I was just thinking he got dirty by the board. They didnt respect him at all yet they gave the keys of the castle to Ole, a manager with no CV to speak of.
Anything Jose wanted was blocked, be it Maguire, be it the sale of Martial, arrival of Perisic, you name it.

They must have hated him. Must have been infuriating to Mourinho.

 

[Anustart89]

Speaking of Jose I was just thinking he got dirty by the board. They didnt respect him at all yet they gave the keys of the castle to Ole, a manager with no CV to speak of.
Anything Jose wanted was blocked, be it Maguire, be it the sale of Martial, arrival of Perisic, you name it.

They must have hated him. Must have been infuriating to Mourinho.

Probably, but he was done so with the blessing of the fans, which is why we’re in such a sticky situation with Ole. It’s going to take much worse results on the pitch (despite a FAR better squad) to reach the level of public discontent with Ole than it did with Jose, because he used to play for us and he’s a great human being as opposed to Jose.

 

[EtH]

The real concern at present is our inability to move on as a team from relying on quick counters. How long has OGS been touting this new, more expansive playing style ? It is past the point of necessity at this point. Opposing teams were already figuring out that sitting back is the way to play against us. But now with the addition of Ronaldo literally no one aside from the really top sides will actually come at us.

And playing with such a focal point (Ronaldo) requires much more consistent control of possession and midfield. Which makes the consistent preference of McFred in midfield all the more baffling. And even more curious is the fact that we push so far up the pitch as if we are indeed trying to play this more proactive style the manager has mentioned on more than one occasion. Yet we are still running out the same midfield pairing we utilized to counterattack superior sides previously.

It's as if Solskjær doesn't realize that implementing a more proactive, possession-based system starts with the midfield. And the result is counterattack after counterattack. Only now it is the opposition cutting us to pieces rather than the other way around. Watching a few of the matches back lately is maddening to watch. We are pushed so far up the pitch which is seemingly a new tactic from the bench. Yet we are running out players who are either loose in possession (Bruno & Pogba) or limited in possession (McFred). The former which could be solved with a simple bit of instruction. The real shocker again however is relying on McFred despite the fact that we are obviously at least attempting to play on the front foot.

What top side relies on runners in midfield ? And what top coach would try to play on the front foot with runners in midfield ? These are damning questions IMO. Again watching some of the matches back the performances and tactics behind them are inexcusable to the point of laughable if I'm being really honest. It is an issue I don't see Ole solving and I think it will cost him his job in the end unfortunately.

 

[anant]

Speaking of Jose I was just thinking he got dirty by the board. They didnt respect him at all yet they gave the keys of the castle to Ole, a manager with no CV to speak of.
Anything Jose wanted was blocked, be it Maguire, be it the sale of Martial, arrival of Perisic, you name it.

They must have hated him. Must have been infuriating to Mourinho.

Or because the board opened their eyes and veto'ed his transfers.

People forget the age profile of the squad Mou had built and adding a Perisic, Boateng, etc. while selling Martial, Shaw, Pog would have meant that the next manager would have had no chance of success here.

Additionally, Mo's transfer record had been poor - I doubt any of his signings barring Zlatan (who had left by then) was looking like a successful signing at the start of 18/19 season

 

[honirelandboy]

Ole is to spineless to drop Bruno back to center midfield and put Pogba in his posistion.

It will benefit the team overall and it's only until we get a midfielder in January.

It has to be done.

 

[OleBoiii]

In José's final season, we were four points worse off after 7 games (having played Leicester and Tottenham out of the competitive teams). Those were then followed by ten points in four games leaving us at 20 points from 11 games. That means that we need to get 6 points from Leicester, Liverpool, Spurs and City to match the meltdown season stats after eleven games points-wise.

Mourinho wasn't sacked after game week 11, though. On top of this he was a miserable twat in interviews and had a falling out with our best outfield player at the time.

If we're 11 points behind 4th place in the middle December and Ole has lost the dressing room, then he will definitely be sacked as well.

 

[Giggsyking]

Given he only signed a new deal this summer, he's most definitely being backed 100%. I imagine these latest renewals have been on the cards for a-few months now, and aren't spontaneous.

It's really no big deal, though. The pressure to deliver this season will remain the exact same, and a poor season will see them all moved on, in all likelihood. The general consensus is that if our poor performances continue, we could be well off the pace come the start of December. If that's the case, the pressure will really be on Ole. Given our Board aren't reactive, compared to other clubs, I think Ole will see the season out no matter what.

Agree

 

[Robbie Boy]

I take your word for that of course and apologies.

I went about it the wrong way but the point I was making was many don’t support Ole even though they know he won’t be sacked. The more rational thing (if one supports the team) is to support the manager until he actually does get sacked instead of bleating and stinking the place out with insults and negativity. There’s a world of difference between querying or discussing decisions or tactics vs the common practice of saying he’s the worst manager in the league and all the other worthless hacking that goes on. I suspect many of these posters are simply not supporters of United. But, again, apologies if my post was lumping you in with that type.

No problem at all mate.

I've made my feelings on Ole very clear, and I have nothing to hide. I don't have extreme views on him one way or the other. My stance, as of now, is that I'm backing him but have doubts. I've always had doubts though, so nothing new there. I came into the season brimming with confidence, and fully expecting a title challenge. However, I'm not going to pretend things are rosy, because the performances have been worrying. I had expected us to look a-lot better than we currently do.

There's still plenty of time to turn it around, and maybe he will - we certainly have the personnel to do so. If the performances remain as they have been, I fear it'll be a long two months ahead and this place will go to complete and utter shit. I'm a realist, and if I lose faith in Ole, that's my decision. I won't run around screaming for him to be sacked, as I'm at peace with the fact that he's liklely here until the end of the season. If things go to shit and don't look like improving, I think he should go, but I don't expect him to, given he only signed a new 3 year deal and was backed with Varane, Ronaldo and Sancho.

He's certainly not above criticism though, and posters should be able to voice valid criticism, once it's done in a constructive manner. Yes, I agree the levels some go to, to offer critique, goes above and beyond what would be considered rational. But they're the minority; however they feel repetition and hyperbole is the best way to voice their misgivings, which gives everyone with a dissenting voice, an unfair bad name.

I'm not emotionally invested in him one way or the other. If he left tomorrow, it wouldn't affect me, likewise if he sees the season out, and it's an underperforming one, I'm ok with that. My view - which I won't change - is that he's done on ok job here, nothing more, nothing less. I'm grateful for some of the work he's done, but I also feel he's been below par with some of the work he's done. He's not the oracle some make him out to be, nor is he the PE teacher. He performed the function of fixing a broken club quite well, his transfers have been mostly good and there's a great foundation for the next manager to work with. I feel he may have taken us as far as he can, but I'll reserve judgement on that for another few months.

Both 'sides' need to have a long hard look at themselves, when it comes to fixing this nonsense divisiveness. They are both playing their part widening the division with wummy, provocative bullshit. I hope the mods get a hold on it soon, as we have a tough few months ahead. I'm sick of every single thread on here being a point scoring Ole thread. You can't even go into an opposition manager thread anymore, without it being about Ole. Some are obsessed with the man.