Ole Gunnar Solskjær | 2021/22 Discussion

[lilcurt]

His comment is what annoys me, this whataboutism.... yes, another club did not get the result they wanted, so we should be happy we lost at home to Villa.

It is not even the result, it is the problems that we have and Ole can't solve them as he's not a very good manager. Some people just can't seem to realize that and rather close their eyes

This is spot on.

We have an element of the fan base on here who like to portray themselves as superior 'top reds' by belittling the arguments of other fans who want to see Ole gone. They often like to compare our results to other teams and play the "what if" scenarios.

Facts are Ole doesn't have cash in the bank like other manager, nowhere in his managerial career has he been there and done it. While at United he has seemingly fell at every hurdle and showed no sign of being capable of securing silverware.

We now have the best squad we have had for a decade and it may only be a this season situation when you consider who may leave next summer. Yet we are wasting the opportunity with a poor manager and clueless coaches.

The board love Ole because he shields them from the fan base, but I can even sense that turning as fans are beginning to become tired with the same issues and poor football.

 

[GueRed]

Another poor performance.

Ole, McKenna and Carrick got done by Dean Smith this time.

Obviously i hope im wrong but we're winning diddly-squat under this management!

 

[therealtboy]

What irks me the most is we all watch football, we watch La Liga, we watch Serie A, we all watch Bundesliga, we see other teams play attacking structured football and surely does Solksjaer and his team so can't they see what is actually needed, can't they see styles we can adopt and put into place?

This 4231 rubbish that he stubbornly sticks to is worse than LVGs philosophy stuff. Doesn't Solksjaer want to improve as a manager? He talks as if things will change after a defeat then we play the same dross the next game. He has a world class squad, forget the DM deficiency, thats not why we can't score against Villa at home. We need a change, nothing is going to change under Ole unfortunately, he hasn't grown as a manager or evolved tactically one bit since he took over.

 

[jamesjimmybyrondean]

If he underachieves and Zidane is attainable then he will be gone. The club loves a big name and given we have Pogba Varane and Ronaldo, the club will probably deem the squad perfect for Zidane

 

[Bobcat]

Have slept a bit and calmed down, but still, that match yesterday was far from good enough and those are the kind of matches we need to win comfortably if we are going to seriously challenge for the league. I've backed him so far and i stand by that. Hes lifted the club from the toxic mess that Jose left behind and as even his most fervent critics point out: We have a very good squad now. He deserves credit for that.

So even if you dont rate him, hes still a United legend and he has still (in my eyes at least) done a pretty good job up until this point. Name calling and abuse makes you look like an entitled twat imo. There are fewer jobs in the world with the amount of pressure like the manager of United, so have some respect.

That being said, the last couple of games have been far from good enough and this season is make or break for him in my eyes. Going forward this season there are a few key points regarding his job that i want to adress

• He absoloutely MUST qualify from that CL group. Its a fairly easy group so not getting past that would be a huge black mark on his CV. But most of all, seing Varane and Ronaldo play in the fecking EL would make me cringe so hard i might die
• He MUST make a serious league challenge. That means being within striking distance of the league leaders around March-April
• He MUST improve his points haul in the league. This one should be fairly easy

Regarding our football, there are also a couple of things i want to adress

• He has to stop playing McFred in the double pivot. Honestly i dont think they are as bad as some people make them out to be and particularly Fred is quite good at breaking up play. The two of them together though are incredibly detrimental to the way Ole wants us to play. If you want to build from the back, you 100% need CM's who are good at the "pass and move" aspect of midfield play and those two are not it. One of Pogba or VdB has to play there to make the transition from defense to attack go a bit smoother. Some people will say "he needs a CM", but hes had plenty of time to sort that out now. Hes made his bed regarding that and hes been backed well now
• The way we played vs Villa is was simply unacceptable. Not because we lost at home, but because we were careless, sloppy and greedy and we did not look like a team that wanted to win the league.
  • I dont mind him telling the players to take a shot as i dont want to see LvG football where we try to pass the ball into the goal, but if you can pass to a teammate who has a better chance of scoring than you, you fecking pass that ball.
  • The amount of unforced errors we made the last couple of games is also something he needs to sort out ASAP. if we keep fecking up simple 10 yard passes, then either the players are not focused enough or we really need to do passing drills in training. Either way, its his responsibility to sort them out
  • Villa, despite not having the talent we have, more than matched us because they were first to every second ball and fought tooth and nail to press us, where as we as a team seemed to play in 2nd gear and there were numerous times were i saw us ball watching instead of getting stuck in there. The reason City and Liverpool managed to win the league this past years is not just because they "have patterns". Its because the whole team work their socks off for 90+ minutes for every fecking game. If somehow we think we are too good to put in the maximum amount of effort, we are well and truly fecked and Ole is already done and dusted as manager here

Crucial months ahead with some really big matches coming up. If we qualify from our CL group and are still around the top of the league table, he deserves to see out the season and we will take it from there. If not, i hope he has the sense to bow out himself, because i really dont want to see the OT crowd turn at him and him getting sacked in a nasty manner like with our former managers

 

[Polar]

Sure you watched us? It wasn't the greatest of games but we were not as bad as some make it look like. Individually everybody was a t least solid. Villa though was great, great pressing and real intent in their attacks. We simply didn't create anything of note against them. Oles potential ways to influence were hampered due to forced subs because of injuries to Shaw and Maguire. We conceded a set piece and didn't make use of a penalty later on. It was a deserved loss (I think it would have been after 1st 45minutes as well).

Deserved loss after 1st 45m? For sure not. Was surprised how bad AV appeared.

 

[mav_9me]

Have slept a bit and calmed down, but still, that match yesterday was far from good enough and those are the kind of matches we need to win comfortably if we are going to seriously challenge for the league. I've backed him so far and i stand by that. Hes lifted the club from the toxic mess that Jose left behind and as even his most fervent critics point out: We have a very good squad now. He deserves credit for that.

So even if you dont rate him, hes still a United legend and he has still (in my eyes at least) done a pretty good job up until this point. Name calling and abuse makes you look like an entitled twat imo. There are fewer jobs in the world with the amount of pressure like the manager of United, so have some respect.

That being said, the last couple of games have been far from good enough and this season is make or break for him in my eyes. Going forward this season there are a few key points regarding his job that i want to adress

• He absoloutely MUST qualify from that CL group. Its a fairly easy group so not getting past that would be a huge black mark on his CV. But most of all, seing Varane and Ronaldo play in the fecking EL would make me cringe so hard i might die
• He MUST make a serious league challenge. That means being within striking distance of the league leaders around March-April
• He MUST improve his points haul in the league. This one should be fairly easy

Regarding our football, there are also a couple of things i want to adress

• He has to stop playing McFred in the double pivot. Honestly i dont think they are as bad as some people make them out to be and particularly Fred is quite good at breaking up play. The two of them together though are incredibly detrimental to the way Ole wants us to play. If you want to build from the back, you 100% need CM's who are good at the "pass and move" aspect of midfield play and those two are not it. One of Pogba or VdB has to play there to make the transition from defense to attack go a bit smoother. Some people will say "he needs a CM", but hes had plenty of time to sort that out now. Hes made his bed regarding that and hes been backed well now
• The way we played vs Villa is was simply unacceptable. Not because we lost at home, but because we were careless, sloppy and greedy and we did not look like a team that wanted to win the league.
  • I dont mind him telling the players to take a shot as i dont want to see LvG football where we try to pass the ball into the goal, but if you can pass to a teammate who has a better chance of scoring than you, you fecking pass that ball.
  • The amount of unforced errors we made the last couple of games is also something he needs to sort out ASAP. if we keep fecking up simple 10 yard passes, then either the players are not focused enough or we really need to do passing drills in training. Either way, its his responsibility to sort them out
  • Villa, despite not having the talent we have, more than matched us because they were first to every second ball and fought tooth and nail to press us, where as we as a team seemed to play in 2nd gear and there were numerous times were i saw us ball watching instead of getting stuck in there. The reason City and Liverpool managed to win the league this past years is not just because they "have patterns". Its because the whole team work their socks off for 90+ minutes for every fecking game. If somehow we think we are too good to put in the maximum amount of effort, we are well and truly fecked and Ole is already done and dusted as manager here

Crucial months ahead with some really big matches coming up. If we qualify from our CL group and are still around the top of the league table, he deserves to see out the season and we will take it from there. If not, i hope he has the sense to bow out himself, because i really dont want to see the OT crowd turn at him and him getting sacked in a nasty manner like with our former managers

A very good post in support of Ole. While I would replace Ole now, I agree with your points.

My fear is it will get nasty as I think Glazers are too cowardly to make a change

 

[Adisa]

His comment is what annoys me, this whataboutism.... yes, another club did not get the result they wanted, so we should be happy we lost at home to Villa.

It is not even the result, it is the problems that we have and Ole can't solve them as he's not a very good manager. Some people just can't seem to realize that and rather close their eyes

He realises. He's just using stawman argument. I don't bother debating with people like that. It is exhausting.

 

[Manchie]

It's not so insane. There's reason not to expect anything from Ole and there's reason to. The reason to is basically what you've said which I'm in support of for now. We've been improving every season since he's been here. The 'next improvement' requires what most are clamouring for which is a title challenge and a cup win. So since we've been improving since Ole came, one would be more optimistic that Ole can deliver this 'next improvement"

The reason not to I'd say is because Ole has lost every chance to win a trophy whether facing an inferior or superior team and he just did that recently again. So expecting him to win a cup can only be met with pessimism. As for the league I'm guessing people look at his competition Chelsea, City, Liverpool. All these teams have a squad at least as good as ours as well as superior coaches to Ole and even if we were to look past that I'd say their tactics or system is superior to Oles so anyone can pessimistic about our chances of challenging

Thank you for elaborating my point, no one deny that we have been improving every season so far, however, for me Ole doesn't have either the experience or tactical know-how to make us title challenger. This is his peak in terms of improving us, I want to be proved wrong though.

 

[SeanyC]

•fail to qualify to the knockouts in CL
•fail to make a serious run at the PL

Any of the above and he has to go. Yesterday just sealed it for me. No strategy, no plan b or c,
Just blames VAR. this is how it starts, managers blaming other things and this leads to player revolts, seen in with Mourinho.

just a point to make also, McKenna and Carrick, can anyone seriously say the players like being coached by them? I never heard of McKenna and Carrick was a decent player but terrible coach.
Anyways, any of the two above and they all got to go. Who we bring in is the next serious question

 

[clarkydaz]

If he underachieves and Zidane is attainable then he will be gone. The club loves a big name and given we have Pogba Varane and Ronaldo, the club will probably deem the squad perfect for Zidane

Zidane supposedly has no interest in coming to England

 

[Wilt]

Young Boys, West Ham, Aston Villa, three giants of modern football.

Utd now have the best squad seen in years and on paper should be capable of winning any competition. And while Ole should take credit for that, he’s now reached his limit.

It‘s no good having a Ferrari if you don’t know how to drive it.

 

[hungrywing]

I had a dream last night that I got up to pee and when I passed by the computer I could see a caf thread about how he'd resigned. (But it had a weird, oblique title)

Oh, wow. I'll read it in the morning.

 

[Djemba-Djemba]

We've played well once this season, against Leeds.

Every other game has ranged from ok to fecking terrible.

We don't have enough games where at full time you can genuinely say we've played well. It's always a struggle.

 

[Kopral Jono]

So what is you point? You would rather we lose on Wednesday?

Some conjecture, this. I take no pleasure in saying this but all I was saying is some of us have been seeing a pattern with Ole that many on here are only beginning to see.

 

[jamesjimmybyrondean]

Zidane supposedly has no interest in coming to England

If that's the case I think Ole stays until things get really bad. The club likes safe options so I think the next manager will be a safe appointment and that is Zidane or Conte. But I can't imagine we'd go for Conte when he's been termed Mourinho 2.0 and we have ptsd

 

[AneRu]

Have slept a bit and calmed down, but still, that match yesterday was far from good enough and those are the kind of matches we need to win comfortably if we are going to seriously challenge for the league. I've backed him so far and i stand by that. Hes lifted the club from the toxic mess that Jose left behind and as even his most fervent critics point out: We have a very good squad now. He deserves credit for that.

So even if you dont rate him, hes still a United legend and he has still (in my eyes at least) done a pretty good job up until this point. Name calling and abuse makes you look like an entitled twat imo. There are fewer jobs in the world with the amount of pressure like the manager of United, so have some respect.

That being said, the last couple of games have been far from good enough and this season is make or break for him in my eyes. Going forward this season there are a few key points regarding his job that i want to adress

• He absoloutely MUST qualify from that CL group. Its a fairly easy group so not getting past that would be a huge black mark on his CV. But most of all, seing Varane and Ronaldo play in the fecking EL would make me cringe so hard i might die
• He MUST make a serious league challenge. That means being within striking distance of the league leaders around March-April
• He MUST improve his points haul in the league. This one should be fairly easy

Regarding our football, there are also a couple of things i want to adress

• He has to stop playing McFred in the double pivot. Honestly i dont think they are as bad as some people make them out to be and particularly Fred is quite good at breaking up play. The two of them together though are incredibly detrimental to the way Ole wants us to play. If you want to build from the back, you 100% need CM's who are good at the "pass and move" aspect of midfield play and those two are not it. One of Pogba or VdB has to play there to make the transition from defense to attack go a bit smoother. Some people will say "he needs a CM", but hes had plenty of time to sort that out now. Hes made his bed regarding that and hes been backed well now
• The way we played vs Villa is was simply unacceptable. Not because we lost at home, but because we were careless, sloppy and greedy and we did not look like a team that wanted to win the league.
  • I dont mind him telling the players to take a shot as i dont want to see LvG football where we try to pass the ball into the goal, but if you can pass to a teammate who has a better chance of scoring than you, you fecking pass that ball.
  • The amount of unforced errors we made the last couple of games is also something he needs to sort out ASAP. if we keep fecking up simple 10 yard passes, then either the players are not focused enough or we really need to do passing drills in training. Either way, its his responsibility to sort them out
  • Villa, despite not having the talent we have, more than matched us because they were first to every second ball and fought tooth and nail to press us, where as we as a team seemed to play in 2nd gear and there were numerous times were i saw us ball watching instead of getting stuck in there. The reason City and Liverpool managed to win the league this past years is not just because they "have patterns". Its because the whole team work their socks off for 90+ minutes for every fecking game. If somehow we think we are too good to put in the maximum amount of effort, we are well and truly fecked and Ole is already done and dusted as manager here

Crucial months ahead with some really big matches coming up. If we qualify from our CL group and are still around the top of the league table, he deserves to see out the season and we will take it from there. If not, i hope he has the sense to bow out himself, because i really dont want to see the OT crowd turn at him and him getting sacked in a nasty manner like with our former managers

Well said.

 

[Dorris]

Done a brilliant job rebuilding the squad, and I think he probably deserves this season to prove whether he can challenge for the top honours, but I think ultimately we’re going to have to hire a top coach if we want to take that next step. We’re going to have to show our ruthless side at some point, and I fear we don’t have the board for that.

If it was Chelsea, the next time a top manager became available Ole would be gone, and that’s why they win things.

 

[jamesjimmybyrondean]

It was very worrying how Greenwood kept shooting. Same with Rashford last season. Or when Pogba and Maguire hogs the ball for too long etc. Our players act on their own too often rather than a system

 

[AneRu]

So your saying Ole should win every game until he wins the PL or CL? No leeway until then? And should dominate every team, every game?

This is just another delusional strawman argument, no one wins or is expected to win every game but we are trophyless in four years whilst having built a very strong side (credit to him) and its only right that fans demand the next step which we look far from taking.

Some conjecture, this. I take no pleasure in saying this but all I was saying is some of us have been seeing a pattern with Ole that many on here are only beginning to see.

This is the challenge with Ole, he will never be bad enough to make it clear that he has to go which means that the management needs to be decisive early on because we have a squad good enough to win. Ole won't lose six on the trot, the fan base won't turn on him but I think it's clear now that he doesn't have it in him to take us further. He timidly lost a European Cup final to Villarreal of all teams, he won't get closer than that ever again.

 

[AFC NimbleThumb]

I see those goalposts are being moved again. People asking for a ‘serious title challenge’ then caveat it with, being ‘close in March’ - the season ends in May ffs! Similar excuses will be made next season if he’s still here.

This is the challenge with Ole, he will never be bad enough to make it clear that he has to go which means that the management needs to be decisive early on because we have a squad good enough to win. Ole won't lose six on the trot, the fan base won't turn on him but I think it's clear now that he doesn't have it in him to take us further. He timidly lost a European Cup final to Villarreal of all teams, he won't get closer than that ever again.

Good point.

The way he’s been allowed to walk away from the Villarreal, Sevilla & Leicester loses without the whole fanbase demanding better really has spun me.

 

[TheGame]

Some conjecture, this. I take no pleasure in saying this but all I was saying is some of us have been seeing a pattern with Ole that many on here are only beginning to see.

Not conjecture. I was merely asking a question in response to the tone of your post which you still haven’t answered.

 

[Kopral Jono]

This is just another delusional strawman argument, no one wins or is expected to win every game but we are trophyless in four years whilst having built a very strong side (credit to him) and its only right that fans demand the next step which we look far from taking.

This is the challenge with Ole, he will never be bad enough to make it clear that he has to go which means that the management needs to be decisive early on because we have a squad good enough to win. Ole won't lose six on the trot, the fan base won't turn on him but I think it's clear now that he doesn't have it in him to take us further. He timidly lost a European Cup final to Villarreal of all teams, he won't get closer than that ever again.

Under Ole we're basically living in the purgatory world of Arsenal under Wenger post-2004. Good enough to beat anyone on our day, heck, dare I say we could even reach the Champions League final one day and win a few trophies every now and again under Ole just like Arsenal did, but we won't challenge for anything major on a consistent basis and the Glazers would be absolutely fine with this.

I really don't know what else to say any more, right now I'm just feeling a bit resigned to our fate.

 

[TheGame]

Have slept a bit and calmed down, but still, that match yesterday was far from good enough and those are the kind of matches we need to win comfortably if we are going to seriously challenge for the league. I've backed him so far and i stand by that. Hes lifted the club from the toxic mess that Jose left behind and as even his most fervent critics point out: We have a very good squad now. He deserves credit for that.

So even if you dont rate him, hes still a United legend and he has still (in my eyes at least) done a pretty good job up until this point. Name calling and abuse makes you look like an entitled twat imo. There are fewer jobs in the world with the amount of pressure like the manager of United, so have some respect.

That being said, the last couple of games have been far from good enough and this season is make or break for him in my eyes. Going forward this season there are a few key points regarding his job that i want to adress

• He absoloutely MUST qualify from that CL group. Its a fairly easy group so not getting past that would be a huge black mark on his CV. But most of all, seing Varane and Ronaldo play in the fecking EL would make me cringe so hard i might die
• He MUST make a serious league challenge. That means being within striking distance of the league leaders around March-April
• He MUST improve his points haul in the league. This one should be fairly easy

Regarding our football, there are also a couple of things i want to adress

• He has to stop playing McFred in the double pivot. Honestly i dont think they are as bad as some people make them out to be and particularly Fred is quite good at breaking up play. The two of them together though are incredibly detrimental to the way Ole wants us to play. If you want to build from the back, you 100% need CM's who are good at the "pass and move" aspect of midfield play and those two are not it. One of Pogba or VdB has to play there to make the transition from defense to attack go a bit smoother. Some people will say "he needs a CM", but hes had plenty of time to sort that out now. Hes made his bed regarding that and hes been backed well now
• The way we played vs Villa is was simply unacceptable. Not because we lost at home, but because we were careless, sloppy and greedy and we did not look like a team that wanted to win the league.
  • I dont mind him telling the players to take a shot as i dont want to see LvG football where we try to pass the ball into the goal, but if you can pass to a teammate who has a better chance of scoring than you, you fecking pass that ball.
  • The amount of unforced errors we made the last couple of games is also something he needs to sort out ASAP. if we keep fecking up simple 10 yard passes, then either the players are not focused enough or we really need to do passing drills in training. Either way, its his responsibility to sort them out
  • Villa, despite not having the talent we have, more than matched us because they were first to every second ball and fought tooth and nail to press us, where as we as a team seemed to play in 2nd gear and there were numerous times were i saw us ball watching instead of getting stuck in there. The reason City and Liverpool managed to win the league this past years is not just because they "have patterns". Its because the whole team work their socks off for 90+ minutes for every fecking game. If somehow we think we are too good to put in the maximum amount of effort, we are well and truly fecked and Ole is already done and dusted as manager here

Crucial months ahead with some really big matches coming up. If we qualify from our CL group and are still around the top of the league table, he deserves to see out the season and we will take it from there. If not, i hope he has the sense to bow out himself, because i really dont want to see the OT crowd turn at him and him getting sacked in a nasty manner like with our former managers

Very good post. I would say that McFred can work in some games like they did last season so they should be playing dependent on the game. The chosen 2 in midfield needs to be dependent on the opposition. Pogba for example wouldn’t work there against some teams.

I would also argue the squad management needs to be much better. Too many players playing a number of games last season ran them into the ground eg Bruno. There are more options this season so the squad management needs to be improved.

 

[Kopral Jono]

Not conjecture. I was merely asking a question in response to the tone of your post which you still haven’t answered.

You quoted my post and arrived at the assumption that I want us to lose, how is that not a conjecture? To answer your question: no United fan in their right mind would want us to lose under any circumstances.

 

[TheGame]

You quoted my post and arrived at the assumption that I want us to lose, how is that not a conjecture? To answer your question: no United fan in their right mind would want us to lose under any circumstances.

I merely queried from the tone of your post because there have been people on here previously on here who have wanted us to lose so the manager could be sacked.

 

[IncyWincySpider]

Looking back now I think it was a lazy and complacent effort yesterday. Our strongest 11 on paper were sent out there in front of a home crowd and expected to just do it. They were taken by surprise by Villa's appetite, workrate and co-ordination. Our lack of response allowed Villa to keep growing into the game and in the end the result was inevitable.

The table looks okay, which is my main concern. We can still progress in the CL but it will be difficult. The biggest problem is the quality of our performances so far this season, which apart from a few bright sparks, have been poor. At some point soon we have to start performing consistently well or this season will be over before it gets going.

 

[E-mal]

He is not good enough, period!
The facts are there to see and the eye test clearly shows that. We are persistently not in control of games. Tactically out of his depth.

 

[Kopral Jono]

I merely queried from the tone of your post because there have been people on here previously on here who have wanted us to lose so the manager could be sacked.

I must have missed something because I see nothing wrong with the tone of that post. I was only stating the fact that there is indeed a clear trend with Ole's United, and I must say to the manager's full credit, to bounce right back after abject results, only to have the cycle repeat itself in a not-so distant future.

 

[Ralph1386]

It was very worrying how Greenwood kept shooting. Same with Rashford last season. Or when Pogba and Maguire hogs the ball for too long etc. Our players act on their own too often rather than a system

I said that in another thread: our players act like that simply because there is no system. It’s basically improvised football with no structure.

 

[DreadnoughtRS88]

I am sorry that my first post here has to be a critique of a club legend and someone I genuinely wanted to succeed at this football club. However, there is no getting around the fact we have quite possibly the worst manager in the league.
I have been watching football for 30 years, seen plenty of games in the top 5 leagues and I can honestly say I have never seen a team with so much talent perform so poorly for so long. We are totally clueless.
Solskjaer was one my favourite players back in the day, obviously not to the extent the likes of Keane, Beckham, Giggs, Van Nistelrooy, etc. were, but right up there in tier 2. Now, all I see when I look at him is a stubborn, arrogant, uneducated football-wise parody of a manager who is ruining our best chance at a PL trophy in the past 8 years despite being backed in the transfer market more than greats such as Sir Alex, Van Gaal and Mourinho were. I am not joking now, Moyes is a managerial giant compared to Ole.
If this club had any sense or courage, they would have sacked him at the end of last season, we were a joke and it was obvious we weren't going anywhere, despite finishing second, ahead of Liverpool without defence and Chelsea who would have finished ahead of us had they changed managers in a timely manner.
Anyway, I will not go into tactics, Fred, van de Beek, etc. in this post, too depressing right now. Ole OUT!

 

[NK86]

It was very worrying how Greenwood kept shooting. Same with Rashford last season. Or when Pogba and Maguire hogs the ball for too long etc. Our players act on their own too often rather than a system

Noticed that. However he was not at all like that last season. Not sure if he wants to score to keep his spot or wants to keep proving he deserves the #9. Whatever it is, definitely was not his usual style.

Not too worried about him. The kid is a diamond and will definitely sort this out.

Back to our tactics, well I cannot see one tbh. Counter attacking is one but that's about it.

 

[NZT-One]

Have slept a bit and calmed down, but still, that match yesterday was far from good enough and those are the kind of matches we need to win comfortably if we are going to seriously challenge for the league. I've backed him so far and i stand by that. Hes lifted the club from the toxic mess that Jose left behind and as even his most fervent critics point out: We have a very good squad now. He deserves credit for that.

So even if you dont rate him, hes still a United legend and he has still (in my eyes at least) done a pretty good job up until this point. Name calling and abuse makes you look like an entitled twat imo. There are fewer jobs in the world with the amount of pressure like the manager of United, so have some respect.

That being said, the last couple of games have been far from good enough and this season is make or break for him in my eyes. Going forward this season there are a few key points regarding his job that i want to adress

• He absoloutely MUST qualify from that CL group. Its a fairly easy group so not getting past that would be a huge black mark on his CV. But most of all, seing Varane and Ronaldo play in the fecking EL would make me cringe so hard i might die
• He MUST make a serious league challenge. That means being within striking distance of the league leaders around March-April
• He MUST improve his points haul in the league. This one should be fairly easy

Regarding our football, there are also a couple of things i want to adress

• He has to stop playing McFred in the double pivot. Honestly i dont think they are as bad as some people make them out to be and particularly Fred is quite good at breaking up play. The two of them together though are incredibly detrimental to the way Ole wants us to play. If you want to build from the back, you 100% need CM's who are good at the "pass and move" aspect of midfield play and those two are not it. One of Pogba or VdB has to play there to make the transition from defense to attack go a bit smoother. Some people will say "he needs a CM", but hes had plenty of time to sort that out now. Hes made his bed regarding that and hes been backed well now
• The way we played vs Villa is was simply unacceptable. Not because we lost at home, but because we were careless, sloppy and greedy and we did not look like a team that wanted to win the league.
  • I dont mind him telling the players to take a shot as i dont want to see LvG football where we try to pass the ball into the goal, but if you can pass to a teammate who has a better chance of scoring than you, you fecking pass that ball.
  • The amount of unforced errors we made the last couple of games is also something he needs to sort out ASAP. if we keep fecking up simple 10 yard passes, then either the players are not focused enough or we really need to do passing drills in training. Either way, its his responsibility to sort them out
  • Villa, despite not having the talent we have, more than matched us because they were first to every second ball and fought tooth and nail to press us, where as we as a team seemed to play in 2nd gear and there were numerous times were i saw us ball watching instead of getting stuck in there. The reason City and Liverpool managed to win the league this past years is not just because they "have patterns". Its because the whole team work their socks off for 90+ minutes for every fecking game. If somehow we think we are too good to put in the maximum amount of effort, we are well and truly fecked and Ole is already done and dusted as manager here

Crucial months ahead with some really big matches coming up. If we qualify from our CL group and are still around the top of the league table, he deserves to see out the season and we will take it from there. If not, i hope he has the sense to bow out himself, because i really dont want to see the OT crowd turn at him and him getting sacked in a nasty manner like with our former managers

I could sign off that post. Apart from the points about McFred, I agree with your points. It is time to do something. Don't care what, but please do something to show, you are aware of the issues and you try to engage them. For what its worth - I wouldn't mind to have 10 or 20 assistant coaches, somebody for each aspect of the game.

Deserved loss after 1st 45m? For sure not. Was surprised how bad AV appeared.

Well agree to disagree then. To make it a bit easier to find a middle ground: I thought, after 45minutes, United weren't terrible and we had some chances so my plan would have been "change nothing for the next 20minutes because a goal will come". Still I thought Aston Villa played really well, created big issues for us with their pressing and defensive shape and they had two great chances to score from. So I think based on that, a win would have been deserved after 45 minutes while not being completely damning for United. After 90minutes though, I thought it was very obvious that we haven't been the better of the two sides in the game and therefor a little part in me was smiling about the gods of football providing Villa a bit of fortune to survive the penalty late on. I didn't think, individually there were somebody really standing out negatively, haven't rated anybody below 5 I think but as a team, it just wasn't good enough. Not better than Villa in terms of quality, workrate, urgency or tactics (not that I see Ole particularly at fault yesterday mostly due to the injuries, the criticism I guess isn't about the specific game yesterday but more as the match is exemplary for the issues that are a topic around here for quite some time.

 

[Robbie Boy]

Some really good posts from some of the 'in' crowd since yesterday. It's genuinely refreshing to see people can actually be nuanced and not arrogantly stick to their stance. Unfortunately, you have the less desirable 'in' posters belittling other peoples opinions and wumming. I think I have a much clearer picture who the 'in' wums are that can't be taken seriously. Thanks for that.

 

[Devil may care]

It's not just the recent results that are disappointing, it's the manner in which they've came about. Every one of the previous managers post Fergie has had the claim of not being backed but LVG and Mourinho's personalities made them hard to back for most fans, myself included, and Moyes was just out of his depth, for me Ole is looking like Moyes but with a vastly superior squad. Ole can't claim to have not been backed, this is the best squad we've had since the 08/09 season, he just isn't good enough to get maximum performance from it.

People compare us logically to City, Liverpool and Chelsea but take them out of it for a second and look at a Brighton, Southampton or even Brentford, as teams they look way more cohesive than us, they look like well drilled units, they just don't have the individual firepower we have. I said a PL challenge was unrealistic with the midfield we have so I was looking to see improvement in the performances, but if you look at the good results and bad results the performances are fairly similar bar the one against Young Boys, it's just you can't rely on individual brilliance every game, you need a playing structure and the manager needs to be able to make tactical changes in a game when things aren't working. He's had more than enough time at this point but with this squad he'll have enough to get top 4 and the cycle of being a top 4 challenger rather than title challenger will continue as that's all you need to keep the Manchester United managers job these days.

 

[NoMidfielders]

Even ignoring the league cup, our performance has already been unacceptable in 4 out of our 7 games this season (Saints, Wolves, Young boys and yesterday). We somehow scraped 4 points from saints and wolves but that isn’t sustainable in any way. With the run we’ve got coming up if we continue performing like this our season could be effectively done before Christmas and Ole will be under massive pressure.

 

[Polar]

the criticism I guess isn't about the specific game yesterday but more as the match is exemplary for the issues that are a topic around here for quite some time.

You’re right. We obviously have a problem which is a bit difficult to pinpoint.

In my opinion Ole really struggles with our midfield. The double pivot obviously represents a problem (especially Fred), and I also think how to play Pogba is a tricky one.

Bottom line: it’s combination of not having the right balance of players and the system we play.

I don’t think we’re able to improve our play any more with 4-2-3-1; it limits our further development.

 

[Eriku]

Some really good posts from some of the 'in' crowd since yesterday. It's genuinely refreshing to see people can actually be nuanced and not arrogantly stick to their stance. Unfortunately, you have the less desirable 'in' posters belittling other peoples opinions and wumming. I think I have a much clearer picture who the 'in' wums are that can't be taken seriously. Thanks for that.

Glad to see someone acknowledge that. If nothing else yesterday’s loss seems to have softened the ground between the two stances a bit, as everybody but the blinkered will have been concerned about what we saw yesterday. I’d prefer a win and gloating from the inners, but them’s the breaks

 

[NZT-One]

You’re right. We obviously have a problem which is a bit difficult to pinpoint.

In my opinion Ole really struggles with our midfield. The double pivot obviously represents a problem (especially Fred), and I also think how to play Pogba is a tricky one.

Bottom line: it’s combination of not having the right balance of players and the system we play.

I don’t think we’re able to improve our play any more with 4-2-3-1; it limits our further development.

Yeah you might be right. I wouldn't slam the door though, I mean, there are things to try and experiment with. Asking Bruno to focus more on staying reasonable close to McFred would be a possibility. Asking the wingers to contribute a little more energy to builtup and defending would soften the pressure. Bringing on a nominal third midfielder to really play in midfield in some situations could be tried. Not pushing both fullbacks high so early in the builtup would also contribute to having more numbers in there which would result in having more easy passing options.
Maybe we could even create a bonus system for assists that applies to Ronaldo, Greenwood and Rashford so there is bigger incentive to be aware of their surroundings ().

So yeah, the most obvious solutions seem a bit far right now but there is no damage done by trying other stuff as well.

Glad to see someone acknowledge that. If nothing else yesterday’s loss seems to have softened the ground between the two stances a bit, as everybody but the blinkered will have been concerned about what we saw yesterday. I’d prefer a win and gloating from the inners, but them’s the breaks

You are right, it needs to be acknowledged. So kudos to everybody who took the bitter pill.

 

[Robbie Boy]

Glad to see someone acknowledge that. If nothing else yesterday’s loss seems to have softened the ground between the two stances a bit, as everybody but the blinkered will have been concerned about what we saw yesterday. I’d prefer a win and gloating from the inners, but them’s the breaks

Aye, I suppose the only good that has come from yesterday is that I've seen some really good posts from some of the 'in' guys. This has brought about some nice nuanced discussion which is good to see. Of course, there's the rotten element on here that refuse to play fair and have zero desire in having a reasonable discussion.

Me personally, I'm still behind him for now. But I have to admit, my long standing lingering doubts about him are niggling away at me. We have two home games coming up now, and we could be in a much better place after them, or much worse. I honestly can't call how it will go, but here's to hoping we put in two really good performances and restore a-bit of positivity. In isolation, games like yesterday happen and that's fine. The thing is, our performance bar the Leeds game, haven't been overly amazing, which is a worry. We haven't been terrible, but I feel we should be playing better stuff.