Ole Gunnar Solskjær | 2021/22 Discussion

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captaincantona said:
The volume of repetition this arguement gets along with “we finished second last season and got to a final so we must be well coached” is really silly to me. It’s as if no one had a telly and we just look at stats on livescore after each game and say...we must be good!

We all have eyes. I presume we all watched every game last season and this season. Name me games in that period which we played well...you know...where afterward you said...Jesus we were good today. We have played 66 times I think. I can count Leeds twice, Southampton, once against City, 3-2 against pool in the FA Cup, RB and PSG in the CL and Sociadad and Roma in the EL. That’s 9 good/top performances for me - out of 66.

I remember watching those other 57 matches and not feeling like I’d watched good performances over all. So why would I then just look at the possession stats, shots on goal, goals scored and convince my own eyes they were wrong as the stats say we must be a good football team? I saw the matches so I don’t need Contextless metrics to correct my opinions.

I love Utd, I love Ole, I don’t like how we play football most of the time. It’s slow, we often lack intensity and we ride our luck. I happen to believe that could be corrected by better coaching in the same way we have tried to correct our set piece play( early days but looking better).

just cause someone doesn’t like how we have been playing doesn’t make them a glory hunter, fair weather, tactical bullshitter, coaching gimp, internet fan or whatever other names you lads sling at them around here.
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So if we finish at the top of the league this season, with less than 15% of the games being "top performances", has he failed? Should he be sacked?

The all-conquering champions of Liverpool scrambled to many scrappy wins, especially in the second half of that season. Do you think the scousers could give a shit?

Last season, Rashford was carrying an injury for most of it.
Pogba missed a third of the league games.
Martial played even less.
We had no pre-season.

In this time, we went unbeaten away in the league, and finished second.

We made a profit selling Dan James, and brought in Jadon Sancho for £47m less than last years price.
Bought 4 times Champions league winner, and World Cup winner, Varane.
Returned Cristiano feckin Ronaldo.

And you wonder why some of us get upset with the whining, entitled, hair-splitting, joyless cnuts in here.

Give your head a good shake.
 
What’s the expectation this season and beyond for Solskjaer and United?

We’re in a very good place at the moment, and despite a certain section of the support trying to bring the mood down constantly, most of us are cautiously excited about the season.

However, the situation with Pochettino at PSG got me thinking about our situation. What do we really want this season? Why about next season?

I mention Poch because it’s obvious PSG want a CL that he probably won’t be able to deliver, therefore he’ll get the boot. Solskjaer will not win the CL either, he’s hardly managed in it over his career and I don’t think he knows how to manage the games effectively right now, he will learn to, like Fergie did, but it will take time.

I personally think he’s putting all his eggs in the PL basket, and I think he’s right to. It would be nice to win a CL but we all really want to be the dominant team in the PL again first. For me it’s clear that’s what he’s working towards and that’s why we should stand by him while he continues to build something.
 
Isotope said:
It’s been an on going problem. Our possession is easily crumbled under pressure.

For instance, you see that under SAF, we could see out games (when we need to) by maintaining possession. And that’s the basic standard of top teams.
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After taking the lead last season 26 times, we dropped a total of 12 points.
Pool dropped 15 points (27 games), City dropped 13 points (32 games), Chelsea dropped 10 points (23 games).
https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/pre...ttbewerb/GB1/plus/?saison_id=2020&spiele=alle

So, I'd say, apart from City, we were up there in holding onto the lead as well.
 
crossy1686 said:
What’s the expectation this season and beyond for Solskjaer and United?

We’re in a very good place at the moment, and despite a certain section of the support trying to bring the mood down constantly, most of us are cautiously excited about the season.

However, the situation with Pochettino at PSG got me thinking about our situation. What do we really want this season? Why about next season?

I mention Poch because it’s obvious PSG want a CL that he probably won’t be able to deliver, therefore he’ll get the boot. Solskjaer will not win the CL either, he’s hardly managed in it over his career and I don’t think he knows how to manage the games effectively right now, he will learn to, like Fergie did, but it will take time.

I personally think he’s putting all his eggs in the PL basket, and I think he’s right to. It would be nice to win a CL but we all really want to be the dominant team in the PL again first. For me it’s clear that’s what he’s working towards and that’s why we should stand by him while he continues to build something.
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The league should always be the primary objective.
 
crossy1686 said:
What’s the expectation this season and beyond for Solskjaer and United?

We’re in a very good place at the moment, and despite a certain section of the support trying to bring the mood down constantly, most of us are cautiously excited about the season.

However, the situation with Pochettino at PSG got me thinking about our situation. What do we really want this season? Why about next season?

I mention Poch because it’s obvious PSG want a CL that he probably won’t be able to deliver, therefore he’ll get the boot. Solskjaer will not win the CL either, he’s hardly managed in it over his career and I don’t think he knows how to manage the games effectively right now, he will learn to, like Fergie did, but it will take time.

I personally think he’s putting all his eggs in the PL basket, and I think he’s right to. It would be nice to win a CL but we all really want to be the dominant team in the PL again first. For me it’s clear that’s what he’s working towards and that’s why we should stand by him while he continues to build something.
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I, for one, have always considered the league as the bread and butter. It might be controversial to say this but for me winning the CL is worth less if you can't win your domestic league. Can hardly claim to be the best in Europe when you're not even the best in your own country. Maybe its colored by the SAF times where we only won the CL as an add on to the league, but to me finishing 4th and winning the CL is just a consolation prize that "good you can beat any team on a given day, but you're not consistently the best team".

As for expectations, anything other than a legitimate title challenge is a big disappointment (barring a major injury crisis) and would seriously put Ole's standing with the fans in jeopardy. However I wouldn't expect him to be fired unless he fails to make top 4 - that seems to be how our board functions.
 
anant said:
After taking the lead last season 26 times, we dropped a total of 12 points.
Pool dropped 15 points (27 games), City dropped 13 points (32 games), Chelsea dropped 10 points (23 games).
https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/pre...ttbewerb/GB1/plus/?saison_id=2020&spiele=alle

So, I'd say, apart from City, we were up there in holding onto the lead as well.
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Nice stats. But what does it have to do with seeing out games with possession?? With possession, players conserve energy and in control. Most top teams are able to do that.
 
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amolbhatia50k said:
This season is only 5 minutes old.

And quality possession play is not simply about how much you have of the ball. Barcelona had 72% of the ball this weekend but played terribly. This is definitely a weakness ours which we need to improve at significantly.
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Yeah and it's the sample size that we have to go on.

Like I've already said, he specifically said maintaining possession, which is an area that we're second best in the league. I'd like to see us move the ball quicker and more sharply sometimes but then again, we've scored the most goals as well so it's not like we're wasting our possession either.
 
Raven said:
Yeah and it's the sample size that we have to go on.

Like I've already said, he specifically said maintaining possession, which is an area that we're second best in the league. I'd like to see us move the ball quicker and more sharply sometimes but then again, we've scored the most goals as well so it's not like we're wasting our possession either.
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The same size is bigger than that. People don't base their views off 5 games.
 
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crossy1686 said:
What’s the expectation this season and beyond for Solskjaer and United?

We’re in a very good place at the moment, and despite a certain section of the support trying to bring the mood down constantly, most of us are cautiously excited about the season.

However, the situation with Pochettino at PSG got me thinking about our situation. What do we really want this season? Why about next season?

I mention Poch because it’s obvious PSG want a CL that he probably won’t be able to deliver, therefore he’ll get the boot. Solskjaer will not win the CL either, he’s hardly managed in it over his career and I don’t think he knows how to manage the games effectively right now, he will learn to, like Fergie did, but it will take time.

I personally think he’s putting all his eggs in the PL basket, and I think he’s right to. It would be nice to win a CL but we all really want to be the dominant team in the PL again first. For me it’s clear that’s what he’s working towards and that’s why we should stand by him while he continues to build something.
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I don't expect dominance in the Prem for a while, by any team. I think City had a period of dominance, partly through their excellence but also through their rivals all having bad spells. Liverpool were still building until a couple of years back, we've been wandering around the backwaters for yonks and Chelsea are always a bit up and down. But over the next 2 to 3 seasons I think there will always be at least 2 teams in a good place, maybe 3 or 4 teams. So I think dominating will be extremely hard.

Rather I think we go into every season expecting to be in the title race. Winning the actual title involves a bit of luck, a bit of good timing, the form of key players arriving at the right moments, and so on. The difference between first and second can be as slim as Lingard hitting the bar at the weekend vs hitting the back of the net. So I don't think narrow losses in a title race are a concern. Just being genuinely in the race every year is the bar now.
 
Man Utd fall down a bit on possession stats because we have a team of ball carriers and dribblers. It’s a stat that isn’t that important to us.
 
Isotope said:
Nice stats. But what does it have to do with seeing out games with possession?? With possession, players conserve energy and in control. Most top teams are able to do that.
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The fact that we don't lose points as often as other teams when leading points to the fact that we are fine in seeing out games as well. It doesn't have to be possession based. Our team has better carriers than passers and hence "seeing out game via possession" is way too specific a stat to use here
 
Kush said:
You're talking as if he was out of contract. He still had an year left on his deal. Questions regarding his ability to win silverware are genuine, whether you like it or not. Club could’ve been more prudent and waited until half-way point to gauge how we are going before handing him a new deal. This renewal was pre-mature just like the original one. There’s no guarantee Ole would’ve got full-time job in the first place, if we had waited until season was finished in 2019.

This is all a moot point because I’ve said in my previous post, our club is content with CL football and there isn’t an emphasis on winning silverware. So, Ole is their man which is evident by them handing him a 4 year deal before a ball was even kicked.
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You don't let the head of your entire football organisation go into the last year of his contract. Its just bad business. You are talking as though its a computer game and nothing else in the organisation is affected by it, but it would have a ripple effect throughout the club and only negative consequences

Putting you on ignore for the bolded sentence. Nothing personal dude. Just bored of reading the opinion that a club thats just signed Varane, Sancho & Ronaldo are settling for top four. Its ridiculous
 
crossy1686 said:
What’s the expectation this season and beyond for Solskjaer and United?

We’re in a very good place at the moment, and despite a certain section of the support trying to bring the mood down constantly, most of us are cautiously excited about the season.

However, the situation with Pochettino at PSG got me thinking about our situation. What do we really want this season? Why about next season?

I mention Poch because it’s obvious PSG want a CL that he probably won’t be able to deliver, therefore he’ll get the boot. Solskjaer will not win the CL either, he’s hardly managed in it over his career and I don’t think he knows how to manage the games effectively right now, he will learn to, like Fergie did, but it will take time.

I personally think he’s putting all his eggs in the PL basket, and I think he’s right to. It would be nice to win a CL but we all really want to be the dominant team in the PL again first. For me it’s clear that’s what he’s working towards and that’s why we should stand by him while he continues to build something.
Click to expand...

For me the expectations for our team have been a solid title challenge - you know where we are in the hunt at the end of the season (instead of being out of it after 20 games), and at least QF in the Champions League, while playing mostly enjoyable football.

The league is the place where consistency is rewarded. Cups are about the luck of the draw as much as they are about team performance. So as much as I would love us to win a trophy, "must-win-a-cup" is, for me, an unrealistic expectation (ask me again if we get to the semis though!).
 
captaincantona said:
The volume of repetition this arguement gets along with “we finished second last season and got to a final so we must be well coached” is really silly to me. It’s as if no one had a telly and we just look at stats on livescore after each game and say...we must be good!

We all have eyes. I presume we all watched every game last season and this season. Name me games in that period which we played well...you know...where afterward you said...Jesus we were good today. We have played 66 times I think. I can count Leeds twice, Southampton, once against City, 3-2 against pool in the FA Cup, RB and PSG in the CL and Sociadad and Roma in the EL. That’s 9 good/top performances for me - out of 66.

I remember watching those other 57 matches and not feeling like I’d watched good performances over all. So why would I then just look at the possession stats, shots on goal, goals scored and convince my own eyes they were wrong as the stats say we must be a good football team? I saw the matches so I don’t need Contextless metrics to correct my opinions.

I love Utd, I love Ole, I don’t like how we play football most of the time. It’s slow, we often lack intensity and we ride our luck. I happen to believe that could be corrected by better coaching in the same way we have tried to correct our set piece play( early days but looking better).

just cause someone doesn’t like how we have been playing doesn’t make them a glory hunter, fair weather, tactical bullshitter, coaching gimp, internet fan or whatever other names you lads sling at them around here.
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I agree that we could keep it better and move it faster but I still think on the whole we play much better than we did say 2 years ago. Don't you agree?
 
Kush said:
You're talking as if he was out of contract. He still had an year left on his deal. Questions regarding his ability to win silverware are genuine, whether you like it or not. Club could’ve been more prudent and waited until half-way point to gauge how we are going before handing him a new deal. This renewal was pre-mature just like the original one. There’s no guarantee Ole would’ve got full-time job in the first place, if we had waited until season was finished in 2019.

This is all a moot point because I’ve said in my previous post, our club is content with CL football and there isn’t an emphasis on winning silverware. So, Ole is their man which is evident by them handing him a 4 year deal before a ball was even kicked.
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The manager having 6 months left on his contract would have had a negative effect on performances. Remember when Fergie said he was going in 2002.

Lots of balls had been kicked by the time Ole got his contract and the board like most fans thought his progress deserved further backing and with 1 year left the time was apt for an extension.

Quite simple really
 
Olecurls99 said:
The manager having 6 months left on his contract would have had a negative effect on performances. Remember when Fergie said he was going in 2002.

Lots of balls had been kicked by the time Ole got his contract and the board like most fans thought his progress deserved further backing and with 1 year left the time was apt for an extension.

Quite simple really
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Even as someone sceptical of where Ole will be able to take us, having the distracting mini-drama of will he/won't he sign a new contract all season, and being linked with other managers all the time, is just a negative factor we don't need. If he has a bad season he'll be gone, if he has a good season he'll be here, whatever the contract situation.
 
anant said:
The fact that we don't lose points as often as other teams when leading points to the fact that we are fine in seeing out games as well. It doesn't have to be possession based. Our team has better carriers than passers and hence "seeing out game via possession" is way too specific a stat to use here
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You could be right, man.
 
captaincantona said:
The volume of repetition this arguement gets along with “we finished second last season and got to a final so we must be well coached” is really silly to me. It’s as if no one had a telly and we just look at stats on livescore after each game and say...we must be good!

We all have eyes. I presume we all watched every game last season and this season. Name me games in that period which we played well...you know...where afterward you said...Jesus we were good today. We have played 66 times I think. I can count Leeds twice, Southampton, once against City, 3-2 against pool in the FA Cup, RB and PSG in the CL and Sociadad and Roma in the EL. That’s 9 good/top performances for me - out of 66.

I remember watching those other 57 matches and not feeling like I’d watched good performances over all. So why would I then just look at the possession stats, shots on goal, goals scored and convince my own eyes they were wrong as the stats say we must be a good football team? I saw the matches so I don’t need Contextless metrics to correct my opinions.

I love Utd, I love Ole, I don’t like how we play football most of the time. It’s slow, we often lack intensity and we ride our luck. I happen to believe that could be corrected by better coaching in the same way we have tried to correct our set piece play( early days but looking better).

just cause someone doesn’t like how we have been playing doesn’t make them a glory hunter, fair weather, tactical bullshitter, coaching gimp, internet fan or whatever other names you lads sling at them around here.
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We don't set up to play well for 90 minutes, so I'm not going to use that benchmark. There's no denying we ground out a lot of wins last season for a number of reasons, but since that's got nothing to do with the stats for this season which I was referring to I'm not sure what relevance they have.
 
cyberman said:
Man Utd fall down a bit on possession stats because we have a team of ball carriers and dribblers. It’s a stat that isn’t that important to us.
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Also worth noting possession % really means nothing without seeing where the possession is. There were times under LVG where the ball just went back and forth across the back four, the ball might as well have been dead but we were known as a possession team.
 
Its quite funny to see comments that fans and the club have lowered expectations, then the same people criticise Ole.

I would like to remind people it was Jose who lowered expectations with his press conference and comments about 2nd being his biggest achievemnt.

Ole came in and straight away said its a 3 year building process, in his 3rd full year, he and the players all want to win the league. So ole has actually brought the expectations back to where they are meant to be.
 
What is it about patterns of play - or lack of - that have certain United fans utterly obsessed? It's weird.

Also, what even are patterns of play?
 
Ole's screen said:
I, for one, have always considered the league as the bread and butter. It might be controversial to say this but for me winning the CL is worth less if you can't win your domestic league. Can hardly claim to be the best in Europe when you're not even the best in your own country. Maybe its colored by the SAF times where we only won the CL as an add on to the league, but to me finishing 4th and winning the CL is just a consolation prize that "good you can beat any team on a given day, but you're not consistently the best team".

As for expectations, anything other than a legitimate title challenge is a big disappointment (barring a major injury crisis) and would seriously put Ole's standing with the fans in jeopardy. However I wouldn't expect him to be fired unless he fails to make top 4 - that seems to be how our board functions.
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I think you're downplaying how hard it is to win the CL over the course of a season. It's not like a three week tournament where decent teams can fancy themselves against one of the big boys based on current form or a well planned strategy in a short period. The CL is harder to win the world cup IMO. Winning it is just as good as winning the PL
 
Random Task said:
What is it about patterns of play - or lack of - that have certain United fans utterly obsessed? It's weird.

Also, what even are patterns of play?
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Probably heard it on TV once after a loss and ran with it ever since.

It's basically that people want us to play exactly the same way as City. I don't think I've seen anyone point to any other team as an example
 
Random Task said:
What is it about patterns of play - or lack of - that have certain United fans utterly obsessed? It's weird.

Also, what even are patterns of play?
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Yes apparently we have no patterns of play, which is entirely paradoxical to the fact we create a lot of chances, score a lot of goals and those goals are spread throughout our attack.

Without patterns of play we wouldn't achieve that. They will have you believe we rely on Bruno to score a penalty or for Pogba to put it top bins in order for us to ever win a game (individual brilliance they say :boring:)
 
RUCK4444 said:
Yes apparently we have no patterns of play, which is entirely paradoxical to the fact we create a lot of chances, score a lot of goals and those goals are spread throughout our attack.

Without patterns of play we wouldn't achieve that. They will have you believe we rely on Bruno to score a penalty or for Pogba to put it top bins in order for us to ever win a game (individual brilliance they say :boring:)
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Most of the people who say it have no idea what Pattern of play means.

Like you say, apparently all our goals are individual brilliance, our losses are poor tactics. Its almost as if we play with 10 men behind the ball and say to Ronaldo / Bruno, you do you when you get it.

I mean if you have the talent of Bruno / Pogba, you expect them to play brilliant passes into the box.

When KDB plays a wonderful pass into the area, its rehearsed, any old player can do that.

When Liverpool missed VVD last season, was nothing to do with him being a top player. If other teams don't rely on Individual brilliance too, there would not be a need to spend more than £20m on a player.
 
romufc said:
Most of the people who say it have no idea what Pattern of play means.

Like you say, apparently all our goals are individual brilliance, our losses are poor tactics. Its almost as if we play with 10 men behind the ball and say to Ronaldo / Bruno, you do you when you get it.

I mean if you have the talent of Bruno / Pogba, you expect them to play brilliant passes into the box.

When KDB plays a wonderful pass into the area, its rehearsed, any old player can do that.

When Liverpool missed VVD last season, was nothing to do with him being a top player. If other teams don't rely on Individual brilliance too, there would not be a need to spend more than £20m on a player.
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Exactly. Just one of many trendy things to say when it doesn’t at all match the reality.
 
Leftback99 said:
Probably heard it on TV once after a loss and ran with it ever since.
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I remember when Jose once used the phrase 'first station passing' to describe a part of his strategy against high pressing opponents. Suddenly all the wannabe tacticians started using it as often as possible..
 
largelyworried said:
Even as someone sceptical of where Ole will be able to take us, having the distracting mini-drama of will he/won't he sign a new contract all season, and being linked with other managers all the time, is just a negative factor we don't need. If he has a bad season he'll be gone, if he has a good season he'll be here, whatever the contract situation.
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Absobloodyexactly
 
crossy1686 said:
What’s the expectation this season and beyond for Solskjaer and United?

We’re in a very good place at the moment, and despite a certain section of the support trying to bring the mood down constantly, most of us are cautiously excited about the season.

However, the situation with Pochettino at PSG got me thinking about our situation. What do we really want this season? Why about next season?

I mention Poch because it’s obvious PSG want a CL that he probably won’t be able to deliver, therefore he’ll get the boot. Solskjaer will not win the CL either, he’s hardly managed in it over his career and I don’t think he knows how to manage the games effectively right now, he will learn to, like Fergie did, but it will take time.

I personally think he’s putting all his eggs in the PL basket, and I think he’s right to. It would be nice to win a CL but we all really want to be the dominant team in the PL again first. For me it’s clear that’s what he’s working towards and that’s why we should stand by him while he continues to build something.
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It would be stupid to sack him now. He needs to given to the end of this season to see what he can do.
If Poch can't win the CL with PSG, why should we even look at him? He is simply not good enough then.
But Ole has to deliver something this season and challenge for the PL and the CL this season. He has the players to do so now.
 
Foxbatt said:
It would be stupid to sack him now. He needs to given to the end of this season to see what he can do.
If Poch can't win the CL with PSG, why should we even look at him? He is simply not good enough then.
But Ole has to deliver something this season and challenge for the PL and the CL this season. He has the players to do so now.
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Well whoever wins the title, that will mean two of Tuchel, Pep or Klopp should be sacked ( hopefully all 3), for not winning the league.
We'll have our pick then.
Hang about! They'll be proven losers.
feck that!
 
Verminator said:
Well whoever wins the title, that will mean two of Tuchel, Pep or Klopp should be sacked ( hopefully all 3), for not winning the league.
We'll have our pick then.
Hang about! They'll be proven losers.
feck that!
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Hmmm, fair comparison comparing Ole to Klopp who won the Premier League 15 months ago and the Champions League the season before and Tuchel and Pep who won the Champions League and Premier League respectively just a few months ago.
 
PoTMS said:
Hmmm, fair comparison comparing Ole to Klopp who won the Premier League 15 months ago and the Champions League the season before and Tuchel and Pep who won the Champions League and Premier League respectively just a few months ago.
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Where have I compared him to any of them?
Klopp only just scraped top 4. The other two are backed by bottomless pits of money.
I am highlighting the folly of failure to win the league, being a sackable offence.

You have just highlighted the calibre of manager he is up against. Thanks.
 
Foxbatt said:
It would be stupid to sack him now. He needs to given to the end of this season to see what he can do.
If Poch can't win the CL with PSG, why should we even look at him? He is simply not good enough then.
But Ole has to deliver something this season and challenge for the PL and the CL this season. He has the players to do so now.
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That’s my point. Ole isn’t going to win the CL so if that’s the expectation then we might as well sack him now. However it clearly isn’t, it seems we’re focusing on the league and building something formidable instead, in which case we should continue to back him but be aware the CL is seen as a bonus
 
PoTMS said:
Hmmm, fair comparison comparing Ole to Klopp who won the Premier League 15 months ago and the Champions League the season before and Tuchel and Pep who won the Champions League and Premier League respectively just a few months ago.
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You can’t live of past achievements. Someone’s getting sacked this summer
 
largelyworried said:
Even as someone sceptical of where Ole will be able to take us, having the distracting mini-drama of will he/won't he sign a new contract all season, and being linked with other managers all the time, is just a negative factor we don't need. If he has a bad season he'll be gone, if he has a good season he'll be here, whatever the contract situation.
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What constitutes a good or bad season though? We’ve all got differing opinions on that, and I imagine the board do as well.

For me, we have to be challenging, even if we don’t win. Securing a top 4, whether that be 2nd, 3rd or 4th, isn’t enough if we don’t look like title contenders. Similarly in the cups, personally, I’m yet to see us give it our best and say the other team were just be better, we’ve typically limped out at the crucial moment.
 
10 seconds away from another cup embarrassment and he's having a giggle on the sidelines.

This is the winning mentality we need.
 
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