Ole Gunnar Solskjær | 2021/22 Discussion

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Red Star One said:
I guess it’s up to discussion. One can believe Ole can consistently go toe-to-toe with other managers with comparable squads, the other might think he lacks some talent and skills other managers have. And we can discuss that - without claims that the guy who doesn’t like Ole’s tactical approach wants to see United doomed.
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I think the comparisons with other managers are apt.

Ole would not have been appointed in a modern-day anonymous interview based purely on managerial skills and experience. That is obvious. Similarly, if Ole was to quit tomorrow, the elite clubs would not even consider him, to be honest, I doubt many clubs from any of the top European divisions would consider him.

That isn't to say he therefore can't be successful, or he wasn't the right appointment. I think it's obvious that cold hard 'previous experience' is not the only thing that matters, for example, Poch at PSG may be considered a superb tactical manager but isn't right for that job, and whilst someone like Sean Dyche has done obviously very well in his role, it would be laughable (outside of the ol' lad pundits) to suggest him for a top job.

I think the issue is that Ole is an annoying level of quality in the role. We can argue about how much is in spite of Ole, and how much is because of Ole, but regardless three years in and it feels like Ole's team is always just good enough to justify his retention, but never good enough to truly push on or do what Manchester United / a squad of this quality should be doing.

I think the case for removing Ole, if the aim is to go and win major honours, was clear quite a long time ago. To me it is obvious he is not an elite level manager. However, maybe that isn't the aim. Maybe stability and top four is.
 
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Drainy said:
Or maybe it was obvious so I'm not blown over by the supposed genius move?
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It was obvious? So what you're saying here is that managers are a non factor when it comes to guiding elite young talents. Do you think Mourinho would've made the same move at that juncture of Messi's career for instance? Is that why De Bruyne made it at Chelsea? Salah too? How about Gnabry, Thierry Henry etc
 
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Doesn't matter what kind of philosophy Ole has as long as our fundamental problems continue. Declan Rice or any other new "star" doesn't solve our real problem. Therefore our coaching staff needs fresh new blood. Someone who's tactically up to date, who has modern visions and know how to implement his ideas. We all want Ole to succeed and we have almost everything in place. I hope Ole, or any of his advisers, are brave enough to accept that there must be changes around his staff so we don't fall behind because af tactical reasons. Sir Alex acknowledged when he needed help and I think Ole is mature enough to realize that now its his time to search for new ideas. Doesn't mean he's a bad manager or don't have a clue it just mean he knows his limitations and do what is best for himself and the club.

I don't know but maybe this process is already ongoing but he don't find a new assistant coach with the right profile. If he's not searching then put pride and stubbornness aside and get it done ASAP before is to late. Maybe I'm and old man who's naive and romatic but sometimes in life we all need help to take the next step. Some of you would probably laugh and make fun of this thoughts but those who are brave enough to listen and understand is also those who often end up with success in thier life.
 
Gawge said:
I think the comparisons with other managers are apt.

Ole would not have been appointed in a modern-day anonymous interview based purely on managerial skills and experience. That is obvious. Similarly, if Ole was to quit tomorrow, the elite clubs would not even consider him, to be honest, I doubt many clubs from any of the top European divisions would consider him.

That isn't to say he therefore can't be successful, or he wasn't the right appointment. I think it's obvious that cold hard 'previous experience' is not the only thing that matters, for example, Poch at PSG may be considered a superb tactical manager but isn't right for that job, and whilst someone like Sean Dyche has done obviously very well in his role, it would be laughable (outside of the ol' lad pundits) to suggest him for a top job.

I think the issue is that Ole is an annoying level of quality in the role. We can argue about how much is in spite of Ole, and how much is because of Ole, but regardless three years in and it feels like Ole's team is always just good enough to justify his retention, but never good enough to truly push on or do what Manchester United / a squad of this quality should be doing.

I think the case for removing Ole, if the aim is to go and win major honours, was clear quite a long time ago. To me it is obvious he is not an elite level manager. However, maybe that isn't the aim. Maybe stability and top four is.
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So can we then say those that want him here have them same Aim as the Glazers? Arsenal standards?
 
Adisa said:
As much as I don't think he's the man, as much as I think we will regret letting our rivals sign 3 of the most talented managers in the last decade, there's no one out there I fancy.
I don't want Zidane, I certainly don't want Conte, Pochettino has messed me up. He's the best option at the moment. It's what happens when you're not a forward thinking club.
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Ten Hag or Luis Enrique?
 
7even said:
Doesn't matter what kind of philosophy Ole has as long as our fundamental problems continue. Declan Rice or any other new "star" doesn't solve our real problem. Therefore our coaching staff needs fresh new blood. Someone who's tactically up to date, who has modern visions and know how to implement his ideas. We all want Ole to succeed and we have almost everything in place. I hope Ole, or any of his advisers, are brave enough to accept that there must be changes around his staff so we don't fall behind because af tactical reasons. Sir Alex acknowledged when he needed help and I think Ole is mature enough to realize that now its his time to search for new ideas. Doesn't mean he's a bad manager or don't have a clue it just mean he knows his limitations and do what is best for himself and the club.
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At this point I'm hoping having players who are hungry to win and playing together as a team is more important than having someone who's a tactical nerd. LvG / Jose's final days are a reminder of what happens when players just go through the motions without buying into the manager's vision fully.

I agree that our problems are fixable by having the right coaches and we don't necessarily need to sack the manager.

Specifically, IMO the biggest weakness this team has is in playing out from the back against a high press and more generally, calmness in the midfield. It's partly personnel, Fred has 1-2 blunders in him every game, AwB is clumsy on the ball, but it's also tactics. You can't expect a CM to receive the ball, have two players closing in at 100mph and expect them to make the perfect decision every single time over 90 mins. We saw this happen to "technical" players like Shaw against Pool, Pogba against Southampton and a bunch of players against Wolves (incl Maguire who's supposed to be our passing CB and Bruno).

The rest of our game play I'm happy with. Counter pressing isn't essential - conserving energy and falling back is fine, Pep / Klopp do this as well. Relying on individuals to find solutions in the final 3rd is fine. Lots of good coaches still do this and we have some spectacular individuals. Defensively we're solid, Transitioning from defense to counter attack is a strength despite the one-off game against Young Boys. We seem to have fixed the set piece problem through coaching as well. (*knocks on wood*)
 
Adisa said:
As much as I don't think he's the man, as much as I think we will regret letting our rivals sign 3 of the most talented managers in the last decade, there's no one out there I fancy.
I don't want Zidane, I certainly don't want Conte, Pochettino has messed me up. He's the best option at the moment. It's what happens when you're not a forward thinking club.
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I won't say anything about Pep, cause he's good at his job, even though I'm unsure if I would have wanted him managing United even before his stint at City.

The summer Klopp decided to take a break from Dortmund and managing in general, we signed Van Gaal to clean up the disappointment from Moyes. Seemed like a safer bet (plus Klopp wanted a break). A year later he signed for the scousers, but it took 3-4 seasons before people stopped making fun of them for hiring him. Then he did really well for 2 seasons before having a somewhat disappointing season again (but ended better than it looked it would).

Last season nobody really wanted Tuchel as he had just been fired from PSG for performing badly in a one horse league. Now because he managed to win a cup competition (albeit the biggest one) he's suddenly one of the most talented managers in the last decade? If that's "all" it takes then whoever wins(/lucks) the next CL is also one of the most talented managers of the decade?
 
Red Star One said:
This is really boiling my piss and reminds me of Polish political culture, full of bullshit statements, strawmen and one side claiming to be the only loyal side with the other being traitors. I’m no one big at this forum, but perhaps we could consider banning / yellow carding WUMs that continuously claim there are Man United fans on this forum that wish us lose only so that “their agenda can be fueled”.

I tell you this mate - I’ve been Ole outer for a long while now, mainly because I believe United deserves a manager recruited on merit rather than on his status within the club. Do I think this man will lead us to glory? No, because he hasn’t shown anything to make me believe he can win against top managers, nothing to convince me he has deep tactical understand of the game and I am very much convinced he is not making our squad better and not providing much value added. Does it mean I’d rather see us lose to be “proven right”? Obviously fecking no, I’d much rather have to swallow my pride and to be proven wrong. There’s not a single United fan that wants to see the team fail, so really let’s stop with this lunacy.
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Well said mate, I'm feed as well with that nonsense argument about Ole outers wishing we lose so we can critique Ole.

I mean in their minds us following ManUtd, subscribing to the forum and participating here is just because some hidden hate against Ole, apparently that makes a lot of sense in their heads.
 
Red Star One said:
This is really boiling my piss and reminds me of Polish political culture, full of bullshit statements, strawmen and one side claiming to be the only loyal side with the other being traitors. I’m no one big at this forum, but perhaps we could consider banning / yellow carding WUMs that continuously claim there are Man United fans on this forum that wish us lose only so that “their agenda can be fueled”.

I tell you this mate - I’ve been Ole outer for a long while now, mainly because I believe United deserves a manager recruited on merit rather than on his status within the club. Do I think this man will lead us to glory? No, because he hasn’t shown anything to make me believe he can win against top managers, nothing to convince me he has deep tactical understand of the game and I am very much convinced he is not making our squad better and not providing much value added. Does it mean I’d rather see us lose to be “proven right”? Obviously fecking no, I’d much rather have to swallow my pride and to be proven wrong. There’s not a single United fan that wants to see the team fail, so really let’s stop with this lunacy.
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Doesn't help that you only show up and have a moan when we lose does it
 


Very well written article. There is a big myth going around that he will be blindly backed because he is a club legend. I don't think so.
 
A good example of us this season is Lampard at Chelsea. Lampard did great in getting Chelsea top 4 with a transfer ban then Chelsea spend 200+ so even though he did well the expectation changed. He got sacked with them in 9th and they won CL and got top 4

Ole has done well here so far with top 4 then a 2nd place finish. But having spend 450+ million and our squad looking very strong(credit to him for this) most are expecting a challenge in the league and a decent CL run. Now I’m not saying he will be sacked if that doesn’t happen but I don’t think a top 4 finish being 20 point off the pace or a CL group exit will be accepted like it was over last 2 years.
 
AshRK said:


Very well written article. There is a big myth going around that he will be blindly backed because he is a club legend. I don't think so.
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The club won't sack him just for not getting past the group. Its just not how it operates. If this is coupled with several defeats in a row in the league, then it is definitely a possibility.
 
7even said:
Some of you would probably laugh and make fun of this thoughts but those who are brave enough to listen and understand is also those who often end up with success in thier life.
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I know one person who did it. Alex Ferguson. I don't think anyone would question that he was a better coach than Ole. Yet he knew he needed better people for the coaching and relied on them. So how Ole can't see this just beggars belief. Perhaps he can. I hope he can and is doing something about it as we speak. Because surrounding yourself by inexperience when you're inexperienced yourself is the definition of foolish in my book.
 
I honestly don't get why people are writing him off completely. Sure he has not done anything so far in his entire managerial career for anyone to think he can win us the league or compete with the best. But in his 3 years here I don't see why people write him off completely as not good enough either. I'd say the odds of us competiting for the title are not as good as Chelsea or City or Liverpool because of him. But to write him off completely is premature
 
HailtotheKing said:
I know one person who did it. Alex Ferguson. I don't think anyone would question that he was a better coach than Ole. Yet he knew he needed better people for the coaching and relied on them. So how Ole can't see this just beggars belief. Perhaps he can. I hope he can and is doing something about it as we speak. Because surrounding yourself by inexperience when you're inexperienced yourself is the definition of foolish in my book.
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That's why he brought back Phelan.
 
jamesjimmybyrondean said:
I honestly don't get why people are writing him off completely. Sure he has not done anything so far in his entire managerial career for anyone to think he can win us the league or compete with the best. But in his 3 years here I don't see why people write him off completely as not good enough either. I'd say the odds of us competiting for the title are not as good as Chelsea or City or Liverpool because of him. But to write him off completely is premature
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It's the amount of tactical mistakes he's made in the last 12 months that has made me doubt his ability as manager. I imagine that's why people have started to write him off.
 
I see the same issues in our opening games that I saw last season and which Ole and the club failed to act upon:

  1. A poorly balanced CM with only one specialist CDM who does not have the legs any longer. McFred are good/decent when we play a counterattacking game but are quite poor in possession.
  2. How to accomodate Pogba and Bruno in the same team? Pogba in a two man midfield rarely works and Pogba as a leftsided CM leaves Rashford on the bench.
  3. AWB is a great defender one on one but is poor going forward and in possession.
  4. AWB, Fred and Pogba in the same team leave us very exposed to teams which press high up the pitch.
I would be very surprised if this team can challenge for the PL or the CL title. I hope that I am proven wrong. The way forward is probably McFred and Rashford against the top teams and Pogba and McTominay against teams where we have more possession. Then Sancho or Rashford can play LW.
 
There is absolutely nothing wrong with having
AshRK said:


Very well written article. There is a big myth going around that he will be blindly backed because he is a club legend. I don't think so.
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If Ole fails to make it out of this very beatable Champions League group and just manages top 4, he absolutely should be sacked with this team.

I don't think Ole will fail, and more importantly Ole has earned the right to prove he can succeed. But yeah bottling this group stage with the squad he has would be ludicrous and rightly put huge pressure on him.
 
I wonder, both Ole In or Out and everybody else?

Isn't this obsession with keeping Lingard at the club beginning to get just a tad bit on your nerves?

Especially with Moyes now saying that Lingard was never an option because Ole specifically told him he was not for sale.
 
Although how he knows the opinion of majority of United fans, is very questionable. Is he mind reader? reading forums? poll of his friends?
 
So far, Solskjaer has been integrating into the squad the best footballer in recent times, one of the better defenders, and one of the better young players. United sit at the top of the table, so the squad harmony is still there despite the highly visible incomings. He has been equal to the challenges of being the manager of the biggest football team.
 
copen1945 said:
So far, Solskjaer has been integrating into the squad the best footballer in recent times, one of the better defenders, and one of the better young players. United sit at the top of the table, so the squad harmony is still there despite the highly visible incomings. He has been equal to the challenges of being the manager of the biggest football team.
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This is true and so far people that want him gone or sacked are just mental.
The fans with some sense that question him are unsure whether he has the ability to challenge for top honours or win trophies which is a genuine concern.
He has met expectations built a great squad now he has too show his ability and challenge. Just because you can build a boat doesn’t mean you can sail, the question marks over his ability to win things is a fair assessment.

So far he has delivered let’s hope he does again.
 
MattofManchester said:
I wonder, both Ole In or Out and everybody else?

Isn't this obsession with keeping Lingard at the club beginning to get just a tad bit on your nerves?

Especially with Moyes now saying that Lingard was never an option because Ole specifically told him he was not for sale.
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Doesn't look good on ole. We could have sold him and got a dm ffs. And lingards value will only go down now.
 
We do need a DM but Fred can play that role or McTom. Bring Bruno back into midfield have him and Pogba play as 8s. Have the DM sit behind those two and never leave the 2/3rds of the pitch so that the DM has a good overview of whats coming. It’s all about instructions and discipline.
 
Think People on both sides of the argument about Ole need to take a breather.

There must be pre conditions about what the team achieves this season to warrant Ole staying on. So the Sack him now crowd are not being realistic.
Similarly. The Back Ole no matter what crowd are nauseating.
He clearly has made very poor game management decisions that warrant scrutiny.

We have a great squad and he needs to get the best of them.

I'm looking forward to Sunday.

Lets hope we get back to winning ways.
 
One thing ole did not impress me is the substitutions. Over the last 3 years I did not feel he made right substitutions nor at the right time.
If you are not strong enough to make decisions you will never win any trophy. Luck can take you only a little far.
people are arguing about lingard but one thing ole has been good is clearing out deadwood. After westham loan, he might have thought lingard might be a good option in squad especially after James leaving and mata end of next season. And it won’t be a bad decision if he extends with low wages. We would have paid more for his replacement than he would have got us.
 
I have my complaints about Solskjaer. Namely in-game management, and him repeating some of his mistakes.

However I'm seeing a large number of oppo fans and pundits just wanting Ole to be sacked, now. The thing is, Ole has had far worse spells for us, when they were like "United should keep him". For all of complaints about Ole(some of which are valid, every manager has flaws), he has literally improved us every season he's been in charge, there's been progress. This is the strongest United have been under him, and our squad now is in a much much better shape than when he joined(and just spending money doesnt ensure that as we saw under LVG and Mourinho). I would get the sacking argument, if there was a Pep/Klopp on the manager market, but there isnt. Who will he hire? Graham Potter? There are no guaranteed choices here.

I think some of the opposition fans/pundits are scared at the progress he's making. That's why they are putting pressure on his job. With all kind of arbitrary deadlines/targets like "sack him if he fails to win a trophy" or "needs to win the PL this season" etc.
 
Also a lot seem to think if we sack Ole and bring in someone "better", what is working now will keep on working, while we get better at everything else.

While in reality, it maybe that we may improve in some new things, while regressing at things we are good at now. Maybe Bruno's effectiveness will lessen. Maybe squad harmony would decrease. Who knows.

You see a cow in a field...
 
The Firestarter said:
The club won't sack him just for not getting past the group. Its just not how it operates. If this is coupled with several defeats in a row in the league, then it is definitely a possibility.
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If, after spending the amount he has, he can’t get through a group with Atalanta, Villarreal and Young Boys then he absolutely deserves the sack!
 
The Firestarter said:
The club won't sack him just for not getting past the group. Its just not how it operates. If this is coupled with several defeats in a row in the league, then it is definitely a possibility.
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He couldn't complain. After going out last year, failing this season in a way easier group and with a better squad at hand would be ridiculous
 
jamesjimmybyrondean said:
I honestly don't get why people are writing him off completely. Sure he has not done anything so far in his entire managerial career for anyone to think he can win us the league or compete with the best. But in his 3 years here I don't see why people write him off completely as not good enough either. I'd say the odds of us competiting for the title are not as good as Chelsea or City or Liverpool because of him. But to write him off completely is premature
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Cause of the amount of times we bottled it when it mattered. Semis and EL final were horrendous. And also because of the inconsistent form for 3 years now.
 
AshRK said:


Very well written article. There is a big myth going around that he will be blindly backed because he is a club legend. I don't think so.
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Nobody actually believes that though, so it isn't really a "myth". It's just another variation of overly dramatic "waa waa";

"Waa waa, Ole will be here forever"
"Waa waa, lowered ambitions"
"Waa waa, our board is happy with just top four"
"Waa waa, the perfect manager for our owners"

Obviously, his position is going to be untenable if he doesn't win anything big soon, with the board, the fans, the owners and the players. People just tend to blurt out deterministic woe-is-me-nonsense in moments of disappointment.
 
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Karlos PFC said:
Cause of the amount of times we bottled it when it mattered. Semis and EL final were horrendous. And also because of the inconsistent form for 3 years now.
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luke511 said:
It's the amount of tactical mistakes he's made in the last 12 months that has made me doubt his ability as manager. I imagine that's why people have started to write him off.
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I do think those are worrying signs that he can't take us to the top or maybe he's just shit in cup games like Conte. He's done well in the league so far so that's what I'm holding on to
 
Jericholyte2 said:
If, after spending the amount he has, he can’t get through a group with Atalanta, Villarreal and Young Boys then he absolutely deserves the sack!
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Godfather said:
He couldn't complain. After going out last year, failing this season in a way easier group and with a better squad at hand would be ridiculous
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I agree it should be done in such a case, I am saying the club won't do it.
 
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