Ole Gunnar Solskjær | 2021/22 Discussion

[Flexdegea]

Well played.

You'll get your excuse the day he get sacked



FFS, stop with the "fanboys" crap. Cant moan about @Wumminator bullying you when you bring that kind of divisive rhetoric yourself.

As several people have said already, hes not immune to critizism, nor should he be. The problem is that after every bad result or performance this thread gets flooded with the same shite and its not only tiresome. Its stupid, because judging a manager on a game-to-game basis is senseless. And the fact that this thread gets about 15 new pages every time we lose or draw is very much evidence that people are just waiting for a chance to pounce. His in game managment wasn't great yesterday and there is no doubt he and his coaches could have done that a lot better. That still does not change the fact that we lost the match because of two massive feck ups by our own players

The fact is, the overall trend is improving and has been since he was appointed. We are currently top of the table in the PL and have had a great summer window. Considering Villareal and Atalanta drew yesterday its not like we have crashed out already. You said yourself several times "he has to win the CL or PL this season". The fact that you think we are in serious contention for those trophies must mean hes done a decent job, because we looked properly fecked in 2018 after Jose was sacked and if he was such incompetent clown we could easily have gone the way of Arsenal and scrapping it out in midtable

If you have concrete criticism related to the team selection, subs, tactics. By all means go ahead, but these meltdowns after every bad result are just dumb, espeically in a game where we get a man sent off and give away a free goal from a stupid back pass

Couldn't have said it any better.


Feel like sometimes I'm living in a alternative reality anytime we drop points. Around here the meltdowns you see from people are crazy.

 

[Adisa]

Ole needs a better tactical mind around him.

How Carrick and Mckenna can come up with that formation/plan at half time and think it's for the best?

Bringing on another CB at half time was ridiculous. We should have stayed as a 4-4-1.

Unfortunately he got himself in a pickle trying to keep his favourites on the pitch (pogba,bruno,ronaldo) instead of doing what was best for the team IMO.

That 5-3-1 was just a disaster.

We are the only club where the the assistant coaches are blamed for tactical.ineptitude.

 

[ShinjiNinja26]

Which begs the question.. Why the feck didn’t you do that?

 

[Adam-Utd]

This, even gave Greenwood the night off in spite of him having a whole two weeks off during the international break.

If only we had competent owners who'd tell him his job is to pick the best team and not try to be everyone's mate and give them a game when he can.

Part of me wishes he'd bench AWB for a stupid red card that cost us the match, but I fully expect him to be starting against West Ham at the weekend.

Greenwood might have had a knock

I saw Varane coming on and my first reaction was good that he is taking Lindelof off but I was stunned to see it was DVB going off. As soon as the red happened you just knew that which players would be taken off . When you are down to 10 common sense says that you have to keep some pace on and players who can run out with the ball but instead he took Sancho off because that was the easy call

Yep it just didn't make sense to me.

I think in their minds they were hoping we 'd keep possession with Bruno and Pogba and then use the wing backs to get forward and provide the width.

Unfortunately though Fernandes is not great with keeping the ball, and Pogba was having a bad day. It didn't help we have very little forward balls to play either. Ronaldo was getting fouled every time they chucked it forwards and he couldn't keep making the runs.

Realistically we should have kept Sancho on, subbed 1 of Bruno or DVB. I'd even have considered subbing Ronaldo earlier with either Martial/Greenwood to have that extra counter attacking energy.

All we ended up doing was surrendering possession, allowed the pressure to build + the fans to believe. We had enough quality on the pitch, Ole should have trusted the players.

I hope they learn from this, but I think being 1-0 up at the time made them play overly defensive.

 

[Drainy]

Well Pep did enjoy his Barca job due to his connections and he delivered. Yes winning with Barca, Bayern and City is easier... but he dominated the leagues. Barca was unplayable. Bayern and City at times were suffocating.
Zidane got his job via pedigree as well. And he delivered.

What did Ole achieve really?What makes you think Ole is the right coach?

Delivered with a team that Rijkaard had done all the hard work to build and take Barcelona out of the dirt and left with the gift of Messi.

Ole has had a decent management career, winning some trophies with the reserves and in Norway (which doesn't necessarily qualify him for a job at United obviously) and like a lot of managers, Klopp included, making mistakes and failing in some jobs. Funnily enough all of the managers mentioned got their breaks at former clubs.

Ole may not end up being the manager who takes us over the finish line, but at this point given the great job he's done with squad replenishment he's earned the right to be given the shot at least until the end of the season. If he fails to win anything then we should be looking for opportunities when its clear he's taken us as far as he can by being knocked out of contention for all trophies. Not sure who the obvious replacement would be.

 

[Majima]

"The only difference is the quality of the managers, Man City, Chelsea, Liverpool have proven winners".

Good quote from a former teammate.

Good on him for not being afraid to voice his opinion. As a former team mate it's the most he can say I guess.

I can imagine he probably feels a lot stronger about it in private. We can all see it, he's not blind.

 

[Denis Irwinning]

Shambolic from our manager and team last night. Why the hell anyone would think taking off Ronaldo and Fernandes to bring on Matic and Lingard, neither of which should still be at the club, was a good idea is beyond me. Again, losing away in the Champions League is not the problem it is the never-ending procession of unconvincing performances, mixed with dire attitudes and bizarre coaching decisions, hoping that a bit of magic from attacking players will see us through that creates most concern.

They were taken off cause we kept getting overloaded. Ronaldo had to be taken off he was offering no press whatsoever.

 

[lefty_jakobz]

Dont see the point in criticising him anymore, as long as he gets top 4 his job is safe. He so severely limited as a manager it would be funny if it wasnt so sad.
Making the same mistakes over and over and not learning is shocking but a man who once said “winning trophies is for other managers...” shows his ambition.
Our squad is very good, shame our manager is very limited.

 

[smi11ie]

His in-match tactics are really strange. He heeps so much pressure on himself. I hope he can work out some simple and effective tactical changes before he gets canned.

I have never liked listening to him talking. This has always been my main gripe with him. I wonder if the players feel the same. Anyway, I want him to succeed but I don't want to hear him talking.

 

[Desert Eagle]

Dont see the point in criticising him anymore, as long as he gets top 4 his job is safe. He so severely limited as a manager it would be funny if it wasnt so sad.

Exactly it's boring and we all know our board will never be proactive. Either shit really hits the fan and he goes or like you say we get top 4 and he survives with some new metric of progress.

 

[Pickle85]

23 pages of crap because we lost a game, we were winning handily, to a decent team whilst playing for an hour with 10 men.

Good to know perspective is still tip top on here

This post ignores a few very significant points of context:

1. The quality of the opposition (poor)
2. The manner of the defeat (a couple of shots and very little threat)
3. The strange changes made

Ole is a United legend for me but I've always thought that for us to take the next step and to start winning serious trophies we'll need to get someone else in. He's done an excellent job of steadying the ship and his recruitment has by and large been good, but I think he is tactically lacking at the very highest level.

 

[CassiusClaymore]

First time yesterday where I genuinely thought he had absolutely no clue of what to do and that's worrying. Looked to me like he was flapping and just changing the team for the sake of it. Every substitution he made just handed the opposition more initiative.

 

[youmeletsfly]

We lost the game because of two dumb fecks doing things dumb fecks do, which is entirely normal in football.
Red cards and misplaced passes are not something new.

Ole's in-game management and overall tactics are well known to be bad, you don't need to be spouting this shit after each and every loss.
I'm one of the guys that actually can't stand him and his fecking fake interviews, but yesterday we were doing a fine job until AWB decided to almost break someone's leg and Lingard forgot where the other goal is.

If you guys expect us to play decent and win big competitions with AWB and no natural DM in this team, stop watching football, it's not for you. As long as we have two massive holes in our team, we can't expect to win every game, especially in the Champions League.
Think about that Leicester team that won the title, not one of their god damn players was as bad as AWB is technically and tactically, not even their fecking bench.

 

[izec]

His die hard fans always make excuses and like to think it is a blip. If its not the ref, then the red card or some players letting him dow, wasted chances etc. It is in difficult games and circumstances where you see how out of depth he is.

At the end of the day, we have to decide if we want to win actual trophies or if top 4 is our trophy. Because Ole's ceiling is top 4, and that mainly because we have a great squad.

 

[lefty_jakobz]

Exactly it's boring and we all know our board will never be proactive. Either shit really hits the fan and he goes or like you say we get top 4 and he survives with some new metric of progress.

We will be here having the same conversation next season. There will be little to no progression. We will spend another 70-100m on a cdm but it will not make much difference.
The level of squad we have deserve a far better manager than we have

 

[Brunaldo]

Delivered with a team that Rijkaard had done all the hard work to build and take Barcelona out of the dirt and left with the gift of Messi.

Ole has had a decent management career, winning some trophies with the reserves and in Norway (which doesn't necessarily qualify him for a job at United obviously) and like a lot of managers, Klopp included, making mistakes and failing in some jobs. Funnily enough all of the managers mentioned got their breaks at former clubs.

Ole may not end up being the manager who takes us over the finish line, but at this point given the great job he's done with squad replenishment he's earned the right to be given the shot at least until the end of the season. If he fails to win anything then we should be looking for opportunities when its clear he's taken us as far as he can by being knocked out of contention for all trophies. Not sure who the obvious replacement would be.

He has to learn stick with his decisions, he shouldn't had 3 center backs on field last night, ruined any chance off still giving them a game, I cant imagine if varane started would he have put on lindelof, no chance, just doesnt trust lindelof but hadnt the balls to take him off or stick with him, just ruined the game instead,pointless martial coming on too,guy wont fight for the ball and is shite in the air, City Chelsea or Liverpool would seen that game out with far more possession than we had

 

[Drainy]

Because Ole's ceiling is top 4, and that mainly because we have a great squad.

That he assembled having inheriting a mess

 

[izec]

That he assembled having inheriting a mess

Well done to him, but now it is time to go. The last time i checked, stagnation is not United's ethos

 

[harms]

At this point I still wonder — so far it's only been mentioned in fan theories, but...

Considering that Ole have been relatively competent in identifying our team's weak points (even those that he haven't patched up yet), is there a chance that he would be willing to look for an assistant that would deal with most of the tactical stuff? It may sound weird to completely give up that part of the job but he has to see that something is not working when he does it and Fergie of all people (although later in his career) had those kind of assistants.

 

[Olecurls99]

This post ignores a few very significant points of context:

1. The quality of the opposition (poor)
2. The manner of the defeat (a couple of shots and very little threat)
3. The strange changes made

Ole is a United legend for me but I've always thought that for us to take the next step and to start winning serious trophies we'll need to get someone else in. He's done an excellent job of steadying the ship and his recruitment has by and large been good, but I think he is tactically lacking at the very highest level.

1. I said the opposition was decent. I think they'll take points off the others too. Especially at home. They're are no bad teams at this level.

2. Again I did say we were winning handily. 10 men for an hour is tough going. There goals were flukey too. They hardly carved us open.

It is extremely difficult for anyone to win a possession war with 10 men against a team that are running around like its the World Cup final.

3. I liked the Varane change and bringing on Dalot. I though the 351 was a good way to adapt to the sending off. We did keep them to long range shots, a deflected cross fluke goal and a gift right at the end. Tough to take but we'll still come out of this group

 

[Desert Eagle]

We will be here having the same conversation next season. There will be little to no progression. We will spend another 70-100m on a cdm but it will not make much difference.
The level of squad we have deserve a far better manager than we have

100% agree.

 

[padzilla]

West Ham away next is the first league game this season where we might not be expected to pick up three points. It's going to be crucial to see if we can win that now to make sure a rot doesn't set in, usually with Ole it's either a streak of fantastic form followed by a string of dire performances.

 

[DWelbz19]

As long as he gets top four he will be fine, he's just signed a new contract with the club. Just for the record I'm not defending him he's taken us as afar as he can and he's not the right manager for us.

I think so too. I don't think the clubs (Glazers) ambition is much stronger than that. As long as Ole's 'steering the ship' -- a top 4 finish with some good performances sprinkled in here and there, he should be fine.

 

[Drainy]

Well done to him, but now it is time to go. The last time i checked, stagnation is not United's ethos

what part of last season wasn't progress? We finished 2nd, got to a load of semis and a final, and were unbeaten away from home all year.

This season is 5 games in and we're sat unbeaten in the league on our ever highest points total after 4 games and just lost our first game away from home in Europe being a man down for 60 mins.

If the above sentence doesn't make you reflect, I don't know what to say.

Like I said, its time for Ole to show he can win us trophies, but he's made enough progress with his holistic approach to squad replenishment and performance to show he deserves the shot this season.

 

[V.O.]

First time yesterday where I genuinely thought he had absolutely no clue of what to do and that's worrying. Looked to me like he was flapping and just changing the team for the sake of it. Every substitution he made just handed the opposition more initiative.

I'd agree with this, though there have been other instances where I'd merely strongly suspected that he hadn't got a clue what to do.

His man-management seems very good (and that's probably the most important aspect of managing a big club) and the squad is in a better place now than at any other time post-2013. He's also shown up several great managers in quite a few big games as well, so I think saying he's useless tactically is massively reductive.

However, his in-game tactical management has been extremely dodgy. If Plan A doesn't work or something changes, Ole is fecked. So many times we've looked awful and Ole has just sat there watching it with us until the 75th minute before doing anything at all. When he isn't passive, we get a situation like last night where he just seemed to be flailing around making changes with no apparent rhyme or reason (other than maybe 'Cristiano is old and Jesse likes to run around a lot').

Hopefully the solution is as @harms suggested, and we get a Carlos Queiroz-type figure in the coaching staff to help him out with that side of management because the current brain trust just hasn't shown the ability to change things for the better in games at all. With the squad we've got now, it's a waste to just keep waiting for Ole, Carrick and co to find their feet and figure out that side of the game.

 

[Womp]

I think the difference is he doesn't sound like a cnut when he says it. I don't think there's anything controversial in what he said, they have better managers and Ole needs to win something.

How exactly are the majority of people criticising him being cnuts, if you don't mind me asking? There are obviously some trolls who are attacking him personally etc. who should be ignored but the majority are just claiming he isn't good enough and justifying why, from what I've seen.

 

[Eddy_JukeZ]

I'd be very wary of signing yet another not-Man Utd style coach, even in the case of Pep really. If I had a list honestly Klopp would be top, I think he's the only one with the talent, reputation and style that would definitely work at our club, but unfortunately he's a Scouse bastard. Zidane would be the next closest match but there's definitely still a question mark over just how much better he is as a coach than Ole in my book. Worth a punt though if this season doesn't go well in my view.

Otherwise I'd almost be tempted to take a punt on Simeone even though his style isn't that close to ours, and the reason I say that is that he's proven not only to be a winner, but also adaptable, which is key for us I think. That would assume he's interested in the job though.

What is a Man-Utd style coach?

What does that even mean?

 

[DWelbz19]

We are the only club where the the assistant coaches are blamed for tactical.ineptitude.

Hah, true. Look at Pep - he was excelling in spite of Mikel Arteta as his assistant!

In all seriousness though, football shows the common denominator in clubs. It isn't the players, endless rebuilds, and deadwoods; it isn't the assistant coaches; it's the manager. If we don't perform this year there really is no excuse. We had a transfer window of signing Cristiano Ronaldo, Raphael Varane, and Jadon Sancho ffs and we're still outside favourites at best.

 

[Pickle85]

1. I said the opposition was decent. I think they'll take points off the others too. Especially at home. They're are no bad teams at this level.

2. Again I did say we were winning handily. 10 men for an hour is tough going. There goals were flukey too. They hardly carved us open.

It is extremely difficult for anyone to win a possession war with 10 men against a team that are running around like its the World Cup final.

3. I liked the Varane change and bringing on Dalot. I though the 351 was a good way to adapt to the sending off. We did keep them to long range shots, a deflected cross fluke goal and a gift right at the end. Tough to take but we'll still come out of this group

Young Boys are fourth in the Swiss league. No disrespect to them but we really should be beating them. Even with ten men we should have taken a point but, in all honesty, they probably deserved the win as they were playing nicely on the break even before the sending off and then afterwards they dominated possession in a way that a side of their calibre shouldn't against us, regardless of being a man up. Theoretically, we should have the players to keep the ball in an 11 vs 10 situation against a side like Young Boys, but the reality is different. Given the gulf in ability I would attribute that to how the side is set up and coached.

 

[Eddy_JukeZ]

At this point I still wonder — so far it's only been mentioned in fan theories, but...

Considering that Ole have been relatively competent in identifying our team's weak points (even those that he haven't patched up yet), is there a chance that he would be willing to look for an assistant that would deal with most of the tactical stuff? It may sound weird to completely give up that part of the job but he has to see that something is not working when he does it and Fergie of all people (although later in his career) had those kind of assistants.

Maybe we should just hire a manager that's proficient with the tactical side of things?

 

[Womp]

What is a Man-Utd style coach?

What does that even mean?

I'd like to know too. Also, how exactly is Simeone, arguably one of the most defensive top flight coaches in football, a proper candidate in this case?

 

[Eddy_JukeZ]

I think so too. I don't think the clubs (Glazers) ambition is much stronger than that. As long as Ole's 'steering the ship' -- a top 4 finish with some good performances sprinkled in here and there, he should be fine.

The Glazers' ambition likely isn't.

However, if we're battling for just top 4 at the end and suffered another embarrassing CL exit, I highly doubt Ronaldo would be satisfied with that and would sit quietly.

 

[Eddy_JukeZ]

I'd like to know too. Also, how exactly is Simeone, arguably one of the most defensive top flight coaches in football, a proper candidate in this case?

Literally makes no sense.

I would presume he wants someone that promotes attacking football and youth. But then he names the most pragmatic and defensive top level manager out there in Simeone.

 

[harms]

Maybe we should just hire a manager that's proficient with the tactical side of things?

I won't pretend like that's not a (probably better) option. But if Ole stays, this has to be the way to go.

 

[DWelbz19]

The Glazers' ambition likely isn't.

However, if we're battling for just top 4 at the end and suffered another embarrassing CL exit, I highly doubt Ronaldo would be satisfied with that and would sit quietly.

That would be a bit juicy.

 

[Eddy_JukeZ]

I won't pretend like that's not a (probably better) option. But if Ole stays, this has to be the way to go.

Not even sure which top coach would subscribe to that role though?

If he has that much tactical nous, he might opt to manage himself.

 

[Eddy_JukeZ]

That would be a bit juicy.

Hopefully it doesn't happen, because I don't think it'd end well.

I still think we'll have a good season, but maybe it's blind hope in me. My gut feeling is that Ole isn't great and we need him to be great vs Pep and Klopp(and even Tuchel).

 

[mu4c_20le]

How exactly are the majority of people criticising him being cnuts, if you don't mind me asking? There are obviously some trolls who are attacking him personally etc. who should be ignored but the majority are just claiming he isn't good enough and justifying why, from what I've seen.

I dunno, something like we will never win anything with him in charge? Or the armchair quarterback stuff about coaching and tactics. Scholes is usually supportive of him and backed him during the tough times, which also led to people bringing up the mates stuff. What he meant here was nothing more than what most of us said during the summer window, that we now have a squad as good as the others in the top 4 and the only difference is they have better managers. He didn't say he wasn't good enough, just stating the obvious that Pep and Klopp are better.

 

[Womp]

I dunno, something like we will never win anything with him in charge? Or the armchair quarterback stuff about coaching and tactics. Scholes is usually supportive of him and backed him during the tough times, which also led to people bringing up the mates stuff. What he meant here was nothing more than what most of us said during the summer window, that we now have a squad as good as the others in the top 4 and the only difference is they have better managers. He didn't say he wasn't good enough, just stating the obvious that Pep and Klopp are better.

What does this even mean? His job expectation especially with how much he's spent and how much time he has been given is to win major trophies. If he isn't delivering on that as other managers are better, than that determines, by default, that he isn't good enough, does it not?

If the expectation at the club was to be the third/fourth best team in the country, then yes, he may well be good enough, but that isn't really the case, is it

 

[Eddy_JukeZ]

I dunno, something like we will never win anything with him in charge? Or the armchair quarterback stuff about coaching and tactics. Scholes is usually supportive of him and backed him during the tough times, which also led to people bringing up the mates stuff. What he meant here was nothing more than what most of us said during the summer window, that we now have a squad as good as the others in the top 4 and the only difference is they have better managers. He didn't say he wasn't good enough, just stating the obvious that Pep and Klopp are better.

Not being as good as Pep/Klopp or on that top level is him not being good enough.

Are we supposed to just give up on winning just because Pep/Klopp manage our rivals?