Ole Gunnar Solskjær | 2021/22 Discussion

[Sylar]

I think the first goal was literally the first shot on goal

Sure, if you take away Maguires header (on target )

 

[crossy1686]

How are we winning 4-1 and people are complaining about the football we played? What is the actual expectation around here these days? Barcelona circa treble years? Brazil World Cup winners? What do some of you actually want? Do you even know anymore or are you so prepositioned to be negative about everything that you cannot find the joy in anything anymore? This is probably the effect of a long term Tory government at this point.

 

[Matriac]

Sure, if you take away Maguires header (on target )

And what would have been on target from Sancho if it wasn't boxed away.

 

[NZT-One]

Keep what in mind? That some posters are wired differently and can't help but react negatively?

Do we really want to talk about the "wiring" of people who feel the need to come into a thread they seemingly "hate" and "not get" 5 minutes after kick-off to ask why it is quiet? There are a few lunatics that are waiting for chances to jump on the managers back, but there are just as many lunatics on the other side.

To me, there is just one possible explanation - some people are here only for attention.

 

[Ibi Dreams]

That stat is meaningless without the underlying context towards how those data was accumulated. When Newcastle broke, which they did a lot, they made wrongs decision consistently and was not clinical enough. There was many times when Newcastle players was open in the box for a drag back for easy goal, which was ignored. Simple factors like that which a player with a higher footballing IQ would notice isn’t implemented in those stats, amongst many other factors like the quality of players at their disposal.

Once again, a lot of ifs. If they had done this, if they had that. They didn't use the ball well when they had the chance to, and we did. That's why we won and they didn't, and why we played better than they did. You're basing your opinion on things that didn't happen

 

[Sylar]

And what would have been on target from Sancho if it wasn't boxed away.

Yeah I mentioned this in the Sancho thread, which was annoying var didn't give it

 

[90 + 5min]

How are we winning 4-1 and people are complaining about the football we played? What is the actual expectation around here these days? Barcelona circa treble years? Brazil World Cup winners? What do some of you actually want? Do you even know anymore or are you so prepositioned to be negative about everything that you cannot find the joy in anything anymore? This is probably the effect of a long term Tory government at this point.

Haters will always hate.

Whatever Solskjaer does, there will always be those who will say that we could done better. Even if we win every game and win everything there is to be won, there will be those who would complain.

 

[podurban2]

He can make a stand that in our attack, rather than consistently try for the risky passes, that we can implement a build up play that is meticulous and intricate. Have a talk with the players. He is the manager, not the players. The fourth goal we saw is how we should be playing when trying to break defense down, not trying aimless long balls and crosses.

like I said, I might just have high standards. Those constant risky passes might be more apt to the football we play though.

I kind of see it the other way, we should make more ”risky” passes in attack (e.g. Pogba, Greenwood, Fernandes). Newcastle defended with 10 men. However, when our creativity relies on Matic, as it did at times today, yea then it’s a managerial problem.

 

[Berbasbullet]

Haters will always hate.

Whatever Solskjaer does, there will always be those who will say that we could done better. Even if we win every game and win everything there is to be won, there will be those who would complain.

If we start winning the narrative will shift to us doing well in spite of the manager.

 

[mu4c_20le]

Do we really want to talk about the "wiring" of people who feel the need to come into a thread they seemingly "hate" and "not get" 5 minutes after kick-off to ask why it is quiet? There are a few lunatics that are waiting for chances to jump on the managers back, but there are just as many lunatics on the other side.

To me, there is just one possible explanation - some people are here only for attention.

It was only a question though. Someone could just as easily asked it in the Lingard thread. Easy to just ignore it instead of forcing yourself to express negatively, no?

 

[Berbasbullet]

I kind of see it the other way, we should make more ”risky” passes in attack (e.g. Pogba, Greenwood, Fernandes). Newcastle defended with 10 men. However, when our creativity relies on Matic, as it did at times today, yea then it’s a managerial problem.

Agreed, we had 75% possession at one point in the first half and we’re constantly going left and right, which is fine as it tired newcastle out, but to say we need to keep possession more is silly.

 

[Strelok]

I'm a big Ole in but tbh I don't think we played well in the first half. Of course it's super difficult to play against a parked bus with 10 man behind the ball. Any team would.

But imo Pogba should have a license to venture further foward and let the passing for our CBs and Matic if those passes were only from side to side. He's not a big help against a counter situation anyway. And we would have done better with him in the box I think. Most of the time it was only Ronnie and Bruno there against like 6 defenders or something.

Or I'd sometime switch him and AWB when we're in possession. Imo AWB would be much better against a counter situation than Pogba. And Pogba with Mason would be a much better and more dangerous combination. His dribbling ability, flair and strength would be very handy there. While AWB is basically useless offensively.

Most of the time when Pogba had the ball it's a lofted pass for Bruno or Ronnie to run behind the defense. That was a bit too simple for my liking and made it quite easy for their defenders imo. We need to have more ideas and options in our attack to supprise their defenders and force them into making mistakes I think.

 

[Matriac]

If we start winning the narrative will shift to us doing well in spite of the manager.

They already started just a few posts above today.

Apparently Ole is now clearly the weakest element in the team, but we might have success due to stars papering over his cracks with their individual brilliance.

 

[crossy1686]

Haters will always hate.

Whatever Solskjaer does, there will always be those who will say that we could done better. Even if we win every game and win everything there is to be won, there will be those who would complain.

There are people who are on the fence still about certain things, which I totally understand, we all are to a degree and would happily see Ole be moved on should we not make the top 4. However, as someone previously mentioned, I think there's a bunch of people who just can't stand people being overtly positive about Ole or the team and have to weigh in with random bullshit 'tests' that Ole has to prove himself with unlike any manager before him. That then causes two sets of extreme's to fly around the place when really everyone is more or less down the middle about everything.

 

[crossy1686]

They already started just a few posts above today.

Apparently Ole is now clearly the weakest element in the team, but we might have success due to stars papering over his cracks with their individual brilliance.

This happened when Ole first became the coach. We were on a 12 game winning streak and there was a lot of people saying that they hoped we would lose a couple of games so they could see how Ole handled the situation and if we recovered. They simply didn't want him from the start and didn't have the balls to say it back then so they had to make up shit like this.

 

[NZT-One]

It was only a question though. Someone could just as easily asked it in the Lingard thread. Easy to just ignore it instead of forcing yourself to express negatively, no?

Come on... I don't buy it. Don't act as if you wouldn't know this isn't just an innocent question. Especially from this poster. It was baiting, and I am actually a bit impressed, there weren't more people to jump on it. Look at it, there are more posts about "negativity" than it is about the actual match. You don't like that "neverending circle" - then stop fueling it.

Btw: I didn't express myself negatively. I pointed out, that in my opinion there were neither plus- nor minus points to be attributed to the manager. Sure - he receives plus points for setting us up to win the game but there was nothing that stood out. Which isn't a dig, just an observation from a naturally biased viewer.

 

[Bebestation]

I remember nearly the whole of the CAF was crying out for Mourinho at one point.

You wonder how they would be acting if it was him who had raised this team or any other manager with a well known name or CV.

 

[Mindhunter]

They already started just a few posts above today.

Apparently Ole is now clearly the weakest element in the team, but we might have success due to stars papering over his cracks with their individual brilliance.

Exactly. While we had Mourinho and LVG at the helm, we lost because the manager but when we win under Ole, we win despite him. Absolutely ridiculous.

I am no Ole fan and I do believe that he isn’t the best manager tactically. However, I do feel he is up there when it comes to managing Man Utd because he gets the club. He has done a massive rebuilding job after he was hired and even though I hate his passive game management, he deserves time to now win us a trophy.

 

[NZT-One]

Agreed, we had 75% possession at one point in the first half and we’re constantly going left and right, which is fine as it tired newcastle out, but to say we need to keep possession more is silly.

I don't think, that this is silly at all. It is easier to keep possession when the teams surrenders it to you like Newcastle did today. But maybe you remember the games against Southhampton or Wolves - it showed that this isn't a skill we are really good at while keeping possession is a key skill for top teams in all leagues. I am not saying that it needs to be plan A but keeping the ball better gives you so many angles to control a game and an opponent and we have seen, how we looked in the matches mentioned above. Taking todays game as proof against that, isn't really smart.

I remember nearly the whole of the CAF was crying out for Mourinho at one point.

You wonder how they would be acting if it was him who had raised this team or any other manager with a well known name or CV.

I think, there would be just as many on the fence and skeptical. For some critics, this isn't just about Ole not being a big name, it simply is about showcased ability managerial wise. (Just for protocol - I don't think, todays game gave any hints about that ability - neither positively nor negatively.)

 

[roonster09]

I don't think, that this is silly at all. It is easier to keep possession when the teams surrenders it to you like Newcastle did today. But maybe you remember the games against Southhampton or Wolves - it showed that this isn't a skill we are really good at while keeping possession is a key skill for top teams in all leagues. I am not saying that it needs to be plan A but keeping the ball better gives you so many angles to control a game and an opponent and we have seen, how we looked in the matches mentioned above. Taking todays game as proof against that, isn't really smart.


I think, there would be just as many on the fence and skeptical. For some critics, this isn't just about Ole not being a big name, it simply is about showcased ability managerial wise. (Just for protocol - I don't think, todays game gave any hints about that ability - neither positively nor negatively.)

We had 63% and 56% vs Southampton an Wolves.

 

[Berbasbullet]

I don't think, that this is silly at all. It is easier to keep possession when the teams surrenders it to you like Newcastle did today. But maybe you remember the games against Southhampton or Wolves - it showed that this isn't a skill we are really good at while keeping possession is a key skill for top teams in all leagues. I am not saying that it needs to be plan A but keeping the ball better gives you so many angles to control a game and an opponent and we have seen, how we looked in the matches mentioned above. Taking todays game as proof against that, isn't really smart.


I think, there would be just as many on the fence and skeptical. For some critics, this isn't just about Ole not being a big name, it simply is about showcased ability managerial wise. (Just for protocol - I don't think, todays game gave any hints about that ability - neither positively nor negatively.)

Sorry I didn't make myself clear, as I do value possession, I meant a poster complaining about us not keeping the ball enough in reference to the first half is a strange criticism.

 

[NZT-One]

We had 63% and 56% vs Southampton an Wolves.

Let me be more precise: when I talk about being better in possession, then it means moving the ball well to create high-quality chances. Just to have the ball isn't "being good in possession" - just look at the game today, Newcastle surrendered the ball to us, it wasn't like the tried to take it away from us all over.

This isn't even a dig, it is our way of playing the game: be vertical and fast. It serves us well. But until today, it didn't get us trophies, so we have to adjust, right? Now having Varane and Ronaldo additionally to Maguire for set pieces, will be a good Plan B. Maybe that is enough to get us a title. If not, we have to dig deeper.

Sorry I didn't make myself clear, as I do value possession, I meant a poster complaining about us not keeping the ball enough in reference to the first half is a strange criticism.

Agreed. I wouldn't agree to that statement as well. But I guess, the issue is more about definitions. As explained above, possession for its own sake can be a misleading metric. It is only valuable, if you a) can keep it while the opponent tries to get it from you and b) you can make use of the ball (dark days of LVG saw us having great deals of possession...)

 

[roonster09]

Let me be more precise: when I talk about being better in possession, then it means moving the ball well to create high-quality chances. Just to have the ball isn't "being good in possession" - just look at the game today, Newcastle surrendered the ball to us, it wasn't like the tried to take it away from us all over.

This isn't even a dig, it is our way of playing the game: be vertical and fast. It serves us well. But until today, it didn't get us trophies, so we have to adjust, right? Now having Varane and Ronaldo additionally to Maguire for set pieces, will be a good Plan B. Maybe that is enough to get us a title. If not, we have to dig deeper.

So instead of using possession, you could have said "We don't create enough chances".

 

[afrocentricity]

in the second half. Even in the match day thread, you can tell a lot of fans will disagree with that sentiment.

They are idiots....

 

[owlo]

Yes. Ole inners are unreasonable.

You can tell your hoping for us to fail.

Ole inners like what they see on the whole and are annoyed with people trying to get him sacked with every bad performance. Baiting those trouble makers is fair game I say

Not hoping, expecting. It's not that hard to understand.

Enjoy your 'baiting' game.

 

[zenith]

That stat is meaningless without the underlying context towards how those data was accumulated. When Newcastle broke, which they did a lot, they made wrongs decision consistently and was not clinical enough. There was many times when Newcastle players was open in the box for a drag back for easy goal, which was ignored. Simple factors like that which a player with a higher footballing IQ would notice isn’t implemented in those stats, amongst many other factors like the quality of players at their disposal.

It's a football game in the premier league, ofcourse the other team will have their chances. It's not a game of chess or machines playing

 

[NZT-One]

So instead of using possession, you could have said "We don't create enough chances".

Well yes and no.

Yes, I certainly think we don't create enough high value chances overall.
But No, us being not great in possession isn't only causing issues in the chance creation. Not being great at keeping the ball also causes issues in the built-up play (which can result in us not really being able to control a match or an opponent), which can be described as often impatient and rash (It can obviously also be described with other and more positive words, but in the context of our specific topic, impatient seems to be the most precise to me.)

 

[Ole's screen]

Not hoping, expecting. It's not that hard to understand.

Enjoy your 'baiting' game.

I mean you can say that about two of Klopp, Pep and Tuchel too since only one of them can win the league. I "expect" two of them to fail this season too.

I'm assuming that's your bar for failure?

 

[Ram1fy]

tl-dr; Unless club structural issues are fixed and Manager's role is well-defined, Ole is our best bet, so good to back him.

Regardless of tactical astuteness, Ole needs credit for assembling the squad and creating an atmosphere for Ronaldo to entertain the thought of joining. Ronaldo wouldn't have joined us, had it been the 2019 squad with his exact same career situation, simple as that. 3 managers tried doing what he tried, but didn't come close. There are clubs like Chelsea that are built for a modular structure that enable outsiders to come in and manage, while everything else is running on it's own. United on the other hand, given how Ferguson managed it was more centralized. Only an insider who understands what made Ferguson's United successful could manage it successfully. This is what Mourinho called "structural" issues. So until Ed Woodward and others figure out how to create a modular structure with segregation of duties well established, etc., it has to be an insider.

 

[Bobcat]

Ole is a lucky manager. Not only does he have the individual talents to bail him out if we are playing shite which I will not be surprised we will see more of this season, but now events that you Would not believe is happening to aid his fortune such as Wilson being out today and now, for our next game west ham best player in Antonio is suspended. I will have to take ole to Las Vegas with me.

If you watched the first half, can you say we played good football?

Jesus Christ.

The prodigal son is home

He scored two in re-debut

The stadium was absolutely electric

We won 4-1

...and here you are, posting salty comments in the manager thread because we won. And you are even salty because our current and future opponents have players injured. Klopp, Pep, Poch and Tuchel have never faced teams with injured players. Never. Always full strength.

Honestly, you should just come out out of the closet fully and abandon this pretense of a United supporter

Your a Poch man. Embrace it and be happy

 

[Ram1fy]

Also, making judgements about the manager based on today's game are somewhat pointless. It is obvious that the team needs to play more, maybe 3 or 4 more games together, before we can attribute mistakes to individuals and that includes the manager

 

[Ole's screen]

tl-dr; Unless club structural issues are fixed and Manager's role is well-defined, Ole is our best bet, so good to back him.

Regardless of tactical astuteness, Ole needs credit for assembling the squad and creating an atmosphere for Ronaldo to entertain the thought of joining. Ronaldo wouldn't have joined us, had it been the 2019 squad with his exact same career situation, simple as that. 3 managers tried doing what he tried, but didn't come close. There are clubs like Chelsea that are built for a modular structure that enable outsiders to come in and manage, while everything else is running on it's own. United on the other hand, given how Ferguson managed it was more centralized. Only an insider who understands what made Ferguson's United successful could manage it successfully. This is what Mourinho called "structural" issues. So until Ed Woodward and others figure out how to create a modular structure with segregation of duties well established, etc., it has to be an insider.

Great post. This guy gets why exactly Ole could work for us why why he has a better chance to be successful here than many of the more lusted after coaches.

PS: On another note I'm not exactly sold on the need to become more like Chelsea in that regard. There's a reason I like United over Chelsea as an overseas fan and one of them is exactly the "family run" feel to it, whereas at Chelsea it seems hollow, just chop and change for the latest hipster coach. We should know what we are and our future managerial appointments should cater to that rather than what makes other clubs successful.

 

[afrocentricity]

feck me why did I come in here? What was I thinking?

 

[crossy1686]

in the second half. Even in the match day thread, you can tell a lot of fans will disagree with that sentiment.

Who gives a shit? We won 4-1. If we lost 3-0 but played brilliant football would that be the moral victory you and some people need?

Sitting top of the table after dispatching a team that came for a draw, in a setup we've struggled to break down over the last few seasons and all you care about is how many pretty little triangles we've played? This is a fecking parody at this point.

 

[Desert Eagle]

"Fantastic coach" according to Ronaldo in the post match interview.

 

[Grylte]

"Fantastic coach" according to Ronaldo in the post match interview.

Nah, Amadeus knows better than Ronaldo :P

 

[crossy1686]

feck me why did I come in here? What was I thinking?

Full of people boiling their own piss because we won but didn't play enough one-two's. It's mental.

 

[R'hllor]

What Ronaldo supposed to say? "Nah, Ole is fecking shit"

 

[mav_9me]

Yeah I mentioned this in the Sancho thread, which was annoying var didn't give it

I was surprised nothing was mentioned. I am not sure it was even reviewed.

 

[Zen86]

"Fantastic coach" according to Ronaldo in the post match interview.

Glazer stooge