The players need to be consistent. Pogba, while he made some delightful passes, was woeful in possession. I'm curious about how many times he gave the ball away in the centre of the park? It was diabolical at times. That being said, we got a result. Fred is tough to watch sometimes. If he continues to pull the strings from deep in midfield, we are fuked.
Ole Gunnar Solskjær | 2021/22 Discussion
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there has to be more to it than this
we've signed loads of players in the last four or five windows and none were midfielders
clearly if Ole wanted one he could've bought one by now
The inconvenient truth. The one midfielder he bought doesn't play. Clearly Ole thinks Pogba as a sitter is what he wants and that combined with fred, matic, ,mctom is good enough for the type of football he wants to play.
Well yeah, the last 2 games haven't been good watches whatsoever. I'm hoping that after the international break, there's a marked improvement in our football.
Agreed. The last time we had actually a good run of performances under Ole was the season before last during project restart.
I don't think most people here realize that it was that long ago since this team had played consistently well for a good period.
Bruno and VDB not midfielders now?
You mean we finished 2nd, got to the EL final, league Cup semi and QF of the FA Cup last season with out ever having a good run of performances?
Imagine if we find some consistency we will win everything!
Performances ≠ results, I thought we learned that already under Mourinho.
they were signed to play as number 10
anyway you know what I mean, he hasn't signed anyone to play in the double pivot - which is what we all think we desperately need
Yup. I think people have to understand that the criticism is within the context of the ambition of the club that is to win the PL and CL and consistently challenge for both, and hence people view the progress made in the quality of football from that lense. For example, when I watched Liverpool get CL footy under Klopp by finishing 4th and making the CL final, they didn't achieve anything trophy-wise but some of the football they played, especially in attack, was absolutely brilliant. They were one major step (resolving defensive issues) away from challenging, so you could see them being very close to being a contender despite us finishing 2nd and them finishing 4th.
After all, he is the man responsible for getting us to this stage.
He does need to start giving Donny a go in midfield though. Nobody else is covering themselves in glory.
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It's an Ole issue because this squad is currently carrying 4 very senior players who are going to play basically no part of anything important on the pitch this season. Okay there was no chance of getting rid of Jones, but we didn't need to give Matic a new deal to 2023, that was mental. We didn't need to resign Grant as a fourth goalkeeper and we didn't need to give Mata an extension. All done for sentimental reasons.
We should never be in a position where the only way we can sign a fourth player hinges on selling Lingard. And this issue is going to persist as well because Matic and Jones are under contract until 2023. So if any of Mata, Grant and Lingard get any more extensions we'll be tying our hands behind our backs in terms of number of signings for next summer. And obviously Williams, Tuanzebe, Chong and Pereira will all contribute to issue this as well if they aren't loaned out again. The deadwood is piling up to unmanageable levels.
Alternatively, the board dont want to spend lots of money and Ole would rather buy quality over quantity and so rather than having a tiny squad he signs on our older players who are fine being squad players to keep us with a healthy squad size. Don't have issues signing on Mata/Matic. Jones was clearly an error and it seemed pre summer we were preparing for one of Henderson/De Gea to leave. That hasn't happened, presumably because despite the complaints both senior keepers want to duke it out and while De Gea is on an insane wage he will be extremely difficult to sell.
Bring back Ernest Mangnall!
It's not really a problem, we were much more bloated last summer. (We didn't register some players until January)
The squad is actually quite healthy now.
If we want to sign another player today without an outgoing we just don't register Grant for PL (and he's still available for domestic cups). He was extended mostly for training ground work anyway.
Matic contract was longer than we'd like, but it's what he demanded to not go elsewhere, and we knew we couldn't afford to buy another backup player for his role, so the 2 year deal was still cheaper than the alternative.
Its important to note that United fans, due to our emotional attachment to the team, have an obvious and understandable tendency to view our own performances through a different lens. I would say that United were absolutely brilliant in attack against Leeds but it's instantly forgotten as soon as the next subpar performance comes around.
If United had failed to put away a 10 man Chelsea as Liverpool did, or lost to Spurs as City did, those performances would be remembered and used in arguments for a long time to come but we quickly forget those. Without that emotional connection its easy to come away with a different perception of certain events.
It's not the emotional connection, it's the difference between clearly looking one of the best attacking/buildup play teams around over the course of a season (Liverpool before they challenged under Klopp) and us doing it in a few games.
As for Liverpool's draw and City's loss, they have already proven themselves at the highest level by winning a CL + PL and multiple PL +cups, respectively, hence nobody is going to use one game as a basis of arguments when you have genuine top class accomplishments to refer to. In fact, nobody is doing that for us (basing things off just one game) either.
Only because Ole doesnt know how to adapt change his tactics to avoid having to rely on a defensive double pivot.
Sorry. But I think, it is needed. We aren't in these flame wars since over two years because one side is evil and the other is fighting the honorable war. That just isn't the case. We are on an internet forum with anonymity. The posts here are harmless compared to facebook or twitter.
I also don't get, why some people seemingly feel the need to repeat the same shit over and over at any given opportunity, but that sucks just the same no matter which side is doing it. Ole received unjust criticism early in his stint. And it was the right thing to harshly show support but at this point it has devolved into a selfsustaining circle where people feel the need to defend the manager against simply anything.
I don't know how many newbies will feel the need to repeat the same question "I don't get why some people are so impatient, we have to support the club" over and over and over ad nauseum. To then get congratulated for expressing the same thought for the 1000th time.
I get it, it sucks. But as we have read today: "the ole in'ers are usually the more balanced posters" ... So far so good...
If we all manage to stay more on-topic, the spiral might end sooner than expected. But it won't happen, because this place is full of petty people, no matter if they are for or against Ole.
That's human nature! Haven't you wondered why the Sun is always reporting scandals, mistakes, embarrasments and such?! Because it draws more attention. And it is the same thing here. Undenied - there are people who seemingly come here to relief themselves of the frustration they have in their life. And that isn't good. But this will never stop so better we find a way to just ignore the most blatant shit and discuss as on-topic as possible and adress posters who violate the rules. But just being of different opinion and standing in for it, shouldn't be seen as an issue.
Then maybe save yourself the trouble to go into certain threads after certain performances.Seriously guys, we are just a bunch of strangers talking about football. No need for crusade for positivity.
Just because its an anonymous forum does not mean it has to descend into a cesspool of shit flinging like twitter. No sane person would suggest Ole is above criticism, nor claim its never merited, because hes had plenty of feck ups along the way, both short term and long term. For example buying VdB and then never playing him and then ending this window completely overstocked on attacking players and only 2(3) proper DM's is madness
Its the constant low effort shitposting that grinds my gears and turns this thread into such a shitshow. After every bad result, or even bad performance, you have the same people piping up with the same lame one-liners. Just calling him a clueless twat for the 500th time and then leaving at the that adds absolutely nothing
I agree that both sides should stay away from trying to one-up the other side and trying to rub it in when things are "going your way". The thing is though, if Ole is doing well, the team is doing well so if people are being positive, thats not necessarily them trying to wind up the "Ole outs", they are simply happy the team is doing well and we are winning. Also, giving Ole praise does not mean you think hes should be manager for life and hes completely safe from the sack.
Lastly, just because the The Sun is a steaming turd on the face of humanity does not mean we have to be as well
Rob you have absolutely nailed it about the coaching needing to show up and if necessary he needs to have that ruthlessness to upgrade on both Carrick & Mckenna maybe even mid season if we are still in the title race of course. My gut feeling is that our yankee leech owners still won't be prepared to judge him until that DM has been signed (mental mindset) and only has to get top 4 in order to be safe as houses too because that's how they operate.
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Wouldn’t this be a reason for him to sign someone for it then?
Regarding the tweet above which claims that we have not brought in a midfielder, is it not the case that Bruno and Van de Beek are midfielders? And while we didn't buy McTominay, isn't it the case that Ole gave McTominay his first run of games?
The proper criticism is that Ole has not bought in defensive midfielder, that he's persisted too long with Matic and McFred and that we're now left with a gaping hole in that position.
The proper criticism is that Ole has not bought in defensive midfielder, that he's persisted too long with Matic and McFred and that we're now left with a gaping hole in that position.
I agree with you on anything.
I don't know how it works, maybe this is something for the mods or admins? Maybe lock this thread for 4 hours after the game. I don't know, give it a try. But my feeling is, these feelings want to be expressed with some people so they will find a place to put it. If you think, it is just the same people, isn't there an ignore function. I don't like that but if that really bugs you to a degree of insufferability, you might try the tools.
No, Mourinho played McTominay as well. The player established himself as a worthy squadmember under Ole and for a while, even a reliable 1st team player, but then hit a plateau or something.
And when people talk about midfielders, they obviously mean central midfielders. Lets not make it harder than it should be...
I wonder how his transfer spend compares with Jose and LVG? Ole's been backed, no denying that.
Making it clear is the point. To suggest that Donny is not a midfielder is pretty bizarre. He may be shit, scared of his own shadow or whatever, but he’s most definitely a midfielder, a midfielder that Ole bought.
His net spend (a better figure to use) is significantly lower - we got 70m for Lukaku, 25 or 30 for James, some 10m for various loan fees, and then there were also some minor sales like Fellaini etc. So net spend is closer to 300m.
He did inherit Pogba, Shaw, DDG, Rashford, Martial, Mc Tominay, Fred and Lindelof as well.
Basically, Ole has an average annual net spend that is lower than Mourinho's and roughly on par with Van Gaal.
Oh, and prices have gotten insane post 2018. Van Gaal(and Mourinho for the most part) were operating in a much more sensible transfer market. You could get young and PL proven players like Shaw for 25 million back then. Today he'd cost twice as much.
The myth that Ole is just throwing money at the problem needs to stop. He's spending less than his predecessors when you take all variables into consideration. He also spends smarter on top of this.
Big questions will have to be asked about him if he can't get this squad playing. No, we didn't get a DM, but the team Ole now has at his disposal is easily good enough to be challenging for everything. I do trust him to get it right.
I agree that he has higher expectations now but I do find it hilarious that’s what the journalists are writing about and not the fact that arsenal are bottom. 
This is very true. The only exception is VDB so far - strange transfer, others were good or better.
James and VDB are his only failures so far I'd say. The former wasn't that expensive and was always considered a gamble anyways. The latter still has time, but it doesn't look good for him.
I'm not 100% convinced that VDB is Ole's signing, though. At least James got a lot of playtime despite not really performing and often having harsher competition for his position than VDB.
I don't think James should be considered a failure. Did his job well and was supposed to be a squad player who had to play more often than expected because of injuries to others. On top of that, we earned a 10m profit on him (the only profitable sale in post-SAF era)
Yeah, 'failure' was a bit harsh of me.
The issue is that to get the most out of Bruno (and Pogba if he plays LAM/LW) you need that balance.
You could argue we could try playing something like 4-1-4-1 or 4-4-2, but that means our good offensive players (Bruno, Pogba, Sancho, Greenwood etc) get less attacking freedom and more defensive responsibility. For example playing Bruno as a box-to-box player or Greenwood or Sancho as a traditional LM or RM would be a waste of their talents
I'd also argue Fred and McTomminay on their day are quite decent in a double pivot, but neither of them have the skills needed to play as a lone DM. In fact, i'd say only McTomminay is a traditional allround CM, where as all the other midfelders are either predominantly defensively or offensively oriented, with the latter far outnumbering the former right now
If we had prime Carrick in our squad right now, it would easier to move away from the double pivot, but with our current squad it would leave us very unbalanced and vunerable imo.
Folks are not ready to have this argument. Ole has had 6 transfer windows to rectify that position. McTominay, Fred and Matic have been mainstay in our midfield during his tenure here. The fact Fred starts pretty much every game should tell us that manager sees something in him. Otherwise, he would've prioritized to upgrade him over other position. Or, meddle and test new solution such as vDB/Lindelof in there. Our squad was mostly filled with garbage and few gems when he took over. So, I don't want to pretend, he didn't have a massive job on his hand to re-build. But, 6 window and 3 years is a very long time to fix CM, IF he perceived it to be a gaping hole. Especially when you factor we have spent almost half a billion during that time.
Ole has signed two attacking midfielders for £100m during his tenure in Bruno and vDB, he has signed 4 wingers for £145m in Sancho, James, Diallo and Pellestri. This is without factoring, emergence of a player like Greenwood. He has also signed 2 strikers in Cavani and Ronaldo, while keeping Martial on books. He's had enough resources to fix the CM position, if it ranked high on his priority. It is about time, folks start to entertain this possibility instead of giving him a pass and pin the blame on board/squad.
James was not a failure. We signed him pretty cheap and turned in a profit. The only un-equivocal dud has been van de Beek. Just wrong player at wrong club at wrong time. We should've cut our losses this summer. Bizarre signings have to be Diallo and Pellestri for £50m combined. Not sure what we were thinking on these two, they won't be ready for us for at least 3-4 years and in latter case perhaps never. We could've spent the money last summer more wisely.
Not sure the point you are trying to make?
Tuchel isn't being praised for not spending money. He's being praised to make a stacked squad work without any significant signings. He delivered CL qualification and big ears last season by adjusting a system for players he had at his disposal. I highly doubt anyone in here last season, looked at 32yo Azpilicueta, Rudiger, Christensen and said, wow what a tremendous defence. Same set of players were languishing in 9th under Lampard, his management has made the difference. You could extend this for Pep too, last season around Christmas, City were 8th in the PL and struggling for goals with both their strikers in Aguero and Jesus injured. Pep tried Gundogan as CF and he went on a ridiculous scoring spree which basically won them the title. Even this season, City don't have a left-back or a striker but most have them as favorites. Top/elite coaches find a solution for their problems, it's not always by buying, but many times making adjustments within their system to cover up for flaws. That's why Tuchel name is constantly brought up, along with other elite coaches. If a top class coach could make more of a difference in here. Hypothetical scenario, mind.
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