Started the game just like last year. Back six, slow football, detached front 4 players from the rest of the team. Same tactics he has always used when he is scared.And you just know that when we come up against Chelsea City Liverpool or any other good team in the champions league he will again play exactly the same way.Back 6 no initiative and wait for a counter attack or individual skill. We will never see our team play possession attacking football against one of the top sides even though we have a squad more than capable. Unfortunately like I’ve said many times, the quality of the squad and the manager are not on the same level.
Ole Gunnar Solskjær | 2021/22 Discussion
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We seem to be against it. Any manager that wants his team to excel at it would have signed a CM to suit that kind of football by now. Chelsea added Jorginho and Kovacic for precisely this reason. We seem to not care. Muscle and hustle is all we need.
This guy is really good, he should turn professional
I know. If we play like that against Southampton away imagine how we are going to set up to play against Chelsea Liverpool City or big champions league games..
The minimum standard this season is a sustained title challenge and a trophy. Both sides of the Ole debate have made the same points on and on again, but this season really is the one that will give everyone the evidence on whether Ole has another level or has peaked. He’s been sufficiently backed with new signings, so time for Ole to show whether he has it in him or not. If we use yesterday as early evidence, it seems he can’t get out of his own way to take this team to the next level that we should all be demanding and expecting this season.
You are acting as if Jose won the CL or PL. The man won 3 trophies (one community shield). Fair play and I won't be a hypocrite in playing down those trophies as I enjoyed when we won. But let us not forget what happened in 18-19 season. We were in a worse position than he took over. This is why I said a lot of things have to be looked at when judging a manager. And hence arteta reference who by the way have been equally backed and is doing a crap job. But because he won fa cup , doesn't automatically mean he has done a better job than Ole at United. Trophies are important but they should come with other things like stability.
And it is not about defendinf Ole because for me he has to deliver now. No more bs excuses of building for the future or talks of progression. For me he has to challenge for the title and win a silverware. He may win two silverwares this season but if we finish 8th, I will call it a poor job. There is no hiding behind trophies either for him (like Jose). The succes has to be on both the front. Win a domestic cup and also do well in the league and CL.
That's the reality of it, I agree as an Ole supporter.
However, the online section of the fanbase is the most negative and whiney bunch - can we not all agree to give the season to see is he the right manager? I think Ole is aware himself that he needs to deliver this season or the club looks elsewhere for a manager - which is completely fair.
Ole is learning on the job and I have accepted that. If this is to be make or break for silverware, he's missed his window given especially Chelsea and City look ridiculously stronger this season than previously. Liverpool won't be far behind either.
But don't you think that's a really messed up way of judging the situation? Why is Ole continuing to be doubted when he's probably the single biggest factor of us being in the position to challenge? Why is it that one draw (let alone a defeat) can somehow eradicate all that progress that we've made? The process and progress has never been linear and there will bumps along the way, but if every negative outweighs the multiple positives before it, then it just seems that nothing will ever be good enough unless we win the title or CL. Why is it that a loss in a semi or a final somehow means that everything before it has been reduced to nought? Do people not remember how close we were to spiralling in the same way that Arsenal are? In fact, Arsenal had a much better league record than we had since Fergie left and finished ahead of us in 18/19. Ole coming in arrested that decline and now he's in a position to push further on, but there are still gaps (and one in particular) that need to be filled especially when you compare it to City and Chelsea who had a headstart. He's done the hard part in building us back up to the extent that top level players like Varane and Sancho want to be here. He just needs two more big additions (which should be coming in next year) and the team will be set for the immediate and long-term. Even with the draw yesterday, I'd still back us to finish 3rd this year at a minimum.
Now don't get me wrong, I understand that he'll always be criticised, that's just the nature of the job and culture in the English sporting press, but even so, surely he has done enough to be given some benefit of the doubt?
The worst thing Moyes-van Gaal-Mourinho did was instill so much pessimism in the fanbase. There's a trust issue there and people don't want to get their heart broken again. Like I distinctly remember hopefulness during Moyes' season early on till it wasn't feasible anymore. But the hope was there. Mourinho butchered it completely.
There's absolutely no hope shown when it comes to Ole. One defeat (not even a defeat) and the season's done.
It's alright. GW3, we win 3-0 again and the Ole outers will go quiet for another week.
There's absolutely no hope shown when it comes to Ole. One defeat (not even a defeat) and the season's done.
It's alright. GW3, we win 3-0 again and the Ole outers will go quiet for another week.
I would save yourself the trouble of reading any of the ridiculous takes from the Twitter brigade or talksport for that matter. I think Ole has done a decent job in helping to stabilize the club through a very rough patch. Question is whether decent is enough. If for example, we finish 4th with 78 points and are within 10 points of the title, and win the fa cup/carabao cup, is that progress the supporters would be happy with? The Glazers for sure would be happy.
If you look at stats, we did have the 5th highest possession in the league last year despite not having the MF for that. We also had the 3rd most shots on target in the league. We also played 31% of our game in final third last season (3rd best in the league), played 26% of our game in the defensive third (3rd least). So...
If it was one game, yes, I'd agree. It's the fact he's not learning from these same mistakes time and time again.
As I say I've been a big supporter. But I've come to the conclusion we aren't going to win a league with him. He repeats the same mistakes too often. It's his third year. Time to learn. Every year we play 2 defensive midfielders against cannon fodder. It's cost us too many times for him to have not seen the trend.
The ownership will be happy as long as the club is qualifying for the Champions League, this much is obvious. The ownership sanctioned two deals this summer with relatively low initial expenditure on foot of the protests end of last season. This is for a different thread though.
I think we need to realise that Man Utd are a top four / cup team currently. The club need a world class manager and another four or five high level signings to be competing with City and Chelsea at the moment and that clearly isn't happening.
So it doesn't hurt to support Ole as he continues to improve. He we among the top ten managers last season as recognised by UEFA. There is a process here. The club is trying to compete with oil money and there are no quick fixes. It might be slow but it is relatively steady. The constant online whining and negativity really doesn't help.
Is he learning? Why are we still wheeling matic and fred out in games against teams we should batter? Why is he persisting with martial up top? Especially after an amazing performance by Mason the previous week?
As always, when you actually add a quality manager, the things you really need to compete with the best turn out to be much lesser than what you initially. Lampard's Chelsea squad winning the CL seemed a laughable notion 11 months back. Turns out Chelsea were in a much better place than we all thought, even leaving Lukaku out. Their defence which we used to laugh at has been absolutely brilliant since he took over. So no, if we add a top class manager we don't need 4/5 high level signings to compete with City and Chelsea. We have an excellent squad right now.
and fyi under mourinho we signed pogba and lukaku and under van gaal signed di maria and falcao. Top players will always want to join us cause we are man united, nothing to do with Ole. We should not compare ourselves to Arsenal aka banter fc and you are right about one thing, nothing will be good enough till we win the league or the CL. Also you have about 6 strawmen in that one paragraph.Yup, fair. The section of the fan base who say he is doing a "great" job, and refuse to ever criticise him, are just as bad though. He deserves the season to see if he can meet the expectations which have fairly been placed on him. If he doesn't deliver, then it'll be time to look elsewhere. The excuses are over.
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So I'd have a couple questions on this.
A) what manager is available that could elevate this squad to title challengers guaranteed?
B) what becomes of the current process should the club seek to replace Ole only when his squad is starting to come together? We are back to square one with a new manager and a board that sanctions transfers at quite a slow pace i.e. another three or four transfer windows before a new manager has their squad.
Consistency is the problem. Hopefully we can turn it around, but yesterday was a poor enough performance. We have to go away to the other teams in the so called top six and then you have leicster and Everton away too, so really we should have won yesterday.
I am optimistic we can turn it around, but yesterday was worrying. Two steps forward and then two steps back.
I am optimistic we can turn it around, but yesterday was worrying. Two steps forward and then two steps back.
This feels like setting a deliberately high bar to absolve the manager of blame when he fails to reach it. We certainly do not need four or five new players just to compete. A new CM is an essential and more competition at right back would be helpful. Other than that, this squad is almost complete. It feels like we're teetering into the Mourinho defence, whereby a manager can't be expected to succeed unless he has 11+ world-class talents at his disposal.
But this is the reality of it though? City and Chelsea have better squads than Man Utd? I'm not absolving Ole of any blame but it is clear as day that he is being backed by the board and will be given the time to develop as a manager. Rightly or wrongly this is where Man Utd are as a club. He has signed a new contract and is going nowhere - how does it help to have online fans crying every weekend?
This isn't the issue - I don't mind him being a bit more pragmatic against those teams, particularly when it's a team that will be offensive which suits us. The latter part re possession against a top side just isn't what Ole wants and we kind of have to accept that as there's no 'right' way to play football, no matter how much we might want to see it.
Biggest issue we have as a team (and the biggest gripe I have) is that we should not feel the need to be so defensive against lower table teams...Ole has been the master of drawing games since he became our manager and this is why, teams can always nick a goal no matter how defensively sound you are (and we were very poor defensively last season), the focus really needs to shift onto creating chances and being ok with conceding goals if it allows us to play offensive football which in turn will lead to more points, even if we lose a few more games every season because we avoid a crippling amount of draws.
Season is early, there's no disaster yet but playing that way against teams like Soton, Palace, Sheffield United, Brighton, WBA, Burnley, Fulham etc last season is why those games were never comfortable. That's what needs to change for me.
Its funny when you see it written down like this. It should help some realise how ridiculous they are acting but it won't. We have a fanbase that are all too ready to throw in the towel at the first hint of trouble.
Regarding the bits in bold:
1) You could very easily argue the improvement is mostly is down to better recruitment on our part. And while Solskjaer plays a part in that, he certainly isn't responsible for it entirely as quite a lot of changes have occurred in the background as well. The whole point of those improvements is that they can outlast any given manager.
2) I don't think one draw does eradicate the progress he's made, nor does it mean he shouldn't be given the benefit of the doubt. I certainly don't think people should be throwing their toys out of the pram over two dropped points. We saw City struggle a lot at the start of last season before going on to win the league, for example.
But equally it shouldn't take the progress we've made being eradicated to to conclude he isn't a manager on the level of Klopp, Guardiola, Tuchel, etc if our season doesn't go as well as hoped. And (for the first season since he's arrived) he's actually expected to hit the levels of those managers as we're now cast as title competitors against them rather than a club slowly rebuilding. So with those heightened expectations reactions are going to be more extreme.
3) He does need new additions, but the fans of all the teams we're competing with would say they need additions too. The expectation for a manager at this level is that you're able to be competitive without your squad being the finished article. Taking City as an example, they had to rely on Ilkay Gundogan being their top scorer in the league last season and are in desperate need of a CF this season too, yet they won the league last year and will be criticised if they don't compete for the league again this season.
I'm not saying we should be winning the league but having some flaws in what is a generally excellent squad shouldn't absolve Solskjaer of blame if/when things go wrong given part of his job is to organise us so we can perform beyond our weaknesses. And it's important that we don't need to wait for the team to completely implode again before we contemplate the quality of our manager, else the last several years of rebuilding will have been for nothing.
My biggest problem with Ole isn't results. I think he has done, to some extent, decent results and he has built a pretty good squad. My problem is our play, we don't play progressive football and I don't see any big development in our style from season to season. We still have the same problems we have had for a long time. I then see Tuchel implement his style at Chelsea quickly, I see Potter being really progressive at Brighton and I see Rodgers at Leicester and wonder, why aren't we as good at certain things? And it's on the manager. I've said it for a long time now, we will never be number one under Ole. Although I don't think he's a 'PE teacher', he is obviously not good enough IMO. I also think he's boring, tactically inept, and has no charisma which I think is needed for the biggest job in football and don't get me started on the myth "he gives youth a chance" FYI both Klopp and Pep, who never brags about giving youth a chance, has given more chances to youth in the last two seasons. Klopp played Elliott against Burnley and Pep has played a few youngsters in their opening games now, one thing Ole would never do. He would never play Hannibal instead of Mata, Lingard or James when it matters. He is not brave enough, which you can see in so many games when we sit back a lot.
Overreaction on the caf, what a shocking revelation.
We drew a game. Whoever wins the league isn't going to win every game between now and May. We should have done better but it did emphasise a worrying hole in the middle. Personally, I don't mind the McFred midfield but an injury to either and we've got serious problems. We really can't rely on Matic, certainly not against high pressing/energetic/physical teams, as per yesterday.
We drew a game. Whoever wins the league isn't going to win every game between now and May. We should have done better but it did emphasise a worrying hole in the middle. Personally, I don't mind the McFred midfield but an injury to either and we've got serious problems. We really can't rely on Matic, certainly not against high pressing/energetic/physical teams, as per yesterday.
A) There are no guarantees in this business, only Pep and Klopp can (somewhat) provide that right now. But look what Tuchel has done at Chelsea in such a short time.
B) Again, Chelsea replace managers like paper napkin. They are doing fine.
https://www.skysports.com/football/...-league-rules-must-not-turn-football-in-rugby
feck me, what planet is he on?! Smacks of desperation, never a bloody foul. Enough of the lame excuses now.
feck me, what planet is he on?! Smacks of desperation, never a bloody foul. Enough of the lame excuses now.
Why was that not seen under Moyes, Van Gaal and Mourinho? Ole is one of the main reasons they are alot of the changes of the background aswell.
Anyway, I feel like people are loving the squad that Ole is building. You hear everyone running around for signing Sancho and Varane - potentially having Haaland as our striker next year etc.
We are arguably a transfer window away from having a the most complete squad we have had since 2006-2008.
It's personally why I as a fan is happy for us to keep improving bit by bit rather than crying about not being the best of the best all too quickly. What makes people think a new manager that chucks Ole out the window can entice and bring Varane in to this new version of United or even Haaland? Let's keep improving and when Ole is not getting the best of the best then let's let him go.
@rotherham_red
To be fair Klopp said the same.
Would you prefer if Man Utd operated with the same model as Chelsea?
It was a foul imo. Even Sourness thought it was.
A) Off the top of my head - Zidane and Conte. And there are no guarantees in life. We could sign Haaland and still not win the title. Doesn't mean we shouldn't. And it's for the club to figure out. I bet you didn't think Tuchel would have such a brilliant impact on Chelsea. There is always quality.
B) Current process, back to square one - it's just United fans who consider the road to the top for one of the richest clubs on the planet to be that you'd expect from clubs like Spurs. When you can buy the likes of Sancho and Varane you're in a category of football club that can fly under the right management. Again, I refer to Chelsea. They didn't have to restart anything under Tuchel. He came and managed them like a top class manager would.
Absolutely. It's only United fans who are so afraid of change. That's how you evolve and improve - by identifying where you can be better and making that move.
I'd love for Ole to smash it this year. But I just don't see the excellence in our football.
What's wrong with Chelsea's model? Is this the whole we have the higher moral ground with the United way thing again?
It's not for me personally. Trophies are not the the be-all and end-all for me and not the sole reason I started supporting Man Utd. That might just be me though.
No, I'm defending him against unfair criticism and statements that I think are false.
You won't find me going at people who are saying they're not sure about him, but go ahead and look if you want.
I generally don't buy into this cult of coach and tactics stuff. I reckon the best group of players win 9 times out of 10 and any manager with our resources and a decent head on his shoulders will get us close. I think that is playing out with Ole.
The grass isn't always greener and you only have to look at what arsenal fans have done to their club to see the damage that can be done.
Well trophies were everything for Sir Alex under whom I'm guessing alll your best moments as a United fan came. Don't see the issue with Chelsea's model. They're giving youngsters a chance now too with Mount and other young players now part of the mix (if good enough). I like our youth focus a lot but these are just excuses to keep Ole in. It's hardly as though Tuchel would sell Greenwood.
Ole has spent close to £400m during his tenure and won precisely nothing. Posters seem to forget that we are Manchester United, not Burnley or Everton. There is an expectation that the team will win trophies with exciting football. So far, no trophies and just the occasional exciting game which makes the frustration even worse. If we don’t beat Wolves, the season is over. I know Ole would say there’s a long way to go but we would be possibly five points behind Liverpool and Chelsea. I think Chelsea will win the PL. Top manager who doesn’t piss about. If you don’t perform, you’re out. Fred wouldn’t last one game there. Ole needs to chop out the shirkers before we can mount a challenge.
Do city a team that lost their opening game look much stronger than last season having only added Jack Grealish that really doesn't offer them anything new?
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