Ole Gunnar Solskjær | 2021/22 Discussion

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Two seasons in a row we've dropped an inordinate amount of points to clubs in the bottom table home and away. Now you're going to claim everyone but the manager is responsible, but because I'm in a good mood despite my sad life, I'll do you a solid and explain a very simple and rudimentary element of team sports, which you are either not bright enough to understand, or more likely you just refuse to acknowledge.

Those dropped points, and for that matter the loss to Liverpool as well, came because the players took the foot off the gas like they were up 3-0. This has been happening over and over and over again throughout Ole's reign as manager. There is enough quality in the side and the manager is good enough tactically to allow for comebacks against inferior teams, but it's not something that can be relied upon enough to win a title.

What's this got to do with the manager you ask? Well, too often he is powerless to put an end to these periods of lethargy and unprofessionalism during the course of a game. This has nothing to do with tactics or player selection, but simply an inability to exert his authority, and that's a huge problem unless you're just ok with not winning another title just so you can childishly insult anyone that doesn't think your boy is the bestest manager in all of history.

Everything above is fact, so your opinion in regards to this post is irrelevant. Have a nice day.

Thats some quality mental gymnastics.

Every team look lethargic and casual at times. That does not mean the manager has "no authority".

No one will be particularly pleased with that performance, but we've had a grueling schedule this season where most of the burden has fallen on the shoulders of the players who started today. Everyone wants us to win and play well, but i'll actually excuse the players for being a bit casual in a game that was more of an exhibition match than anything, especially when we have a final on the horizon.

A good leader knows when to demand 100% and when to take his foot of the gass and be a bit more lenient. Maybe you would have wanted Ole to be fuming on the sidelines and given them a proper bollocking for being a bit leisurely today, but imo that kind of leadership style is going to wear you down eventually (Look: Jose)

If this was somehow about the league title or top 4, i would have been fuming as well, but in a game like this its perfectly fine to not be 100% focused
 
Which striker could he have brought on?

You’re acting like the players didn’t try, they tried. They had more than enough chances to win the game, they just didn’t finish their chances, that’s nothing to do with not trying. The overreaction is strange.

Then leave him on. Those 10 mins wouldn't have killed him.

It's not an overreaction to expect that billion pound squad to win against a relegated Fulham side at home in front of the fans for the first time since a very very long time. We are so poorly coached it's unreal
 
We're in a very weird spot now with Ole. He's obviously not good enough to win us the PL or the CL, but he's done a lot of good things at the club- a constant upward trajectory, decent signings, seemingly has the backing of the players, and could win us a Europa League final- our first trophy in years. But ultimately, let's be honest, we play pretty awful football and rely a lot on magical moments from our world class talents, rather than carve out chance after chance due to a consistent and structured pattern of play. Our CFs, whoever it is, struggle to find themselves in goalscoring positions often. We are too reliant on Bruno having a great game or a great moment. Our defense, with or without Maguire, is often a complete mess. We are prone to absolute collective meltdowns in matches - Spurs, Liverpool, Leipzig, Istanbul, Everton come to mind.

Next season, City are going to even better with a new striker. Liverpool are probably gonna make top 4 and be back with VVD and on an upwards trajectory again. Chelsea are definitely going to compete for the title. We will probably be middling around the top 4- depending on vibes, we might be near the top for a bit but ultimately will fail to win matches we should be winning because of the aforementioned issues which have not been solved and seemingly won't be.

We can't sack Ole now - after all, we've finished 2nd and are in a final. The only way we sack him is if we don't get top 4 next season (I'm fairly sure top 4 and getting out of the CL group stages will be enough for him to keep his job). The cold, ruthless, ambitious decision would be to sack him now, thank him for the progress he's made at the club, and get in a real manager with actual pedigree who can take this team to the next level (ala Tuchel) because that's what we desperately need. If the club could recognize this, and have the balls to act on it, we could mount a real title challenge next season, but obviously this will never happen- he's a club legend, the fans will hate the board for doing this, it will cause an uproar the likes of which the world has never seen, and there'll be too much pressure on the new manager right from the off. So essentially, what we're stuck with is yet another average season next year, or a terrible one which gets Ole sacked and gets us a tactical genius manager, but only if we fall out of top 4 - which means unhappy players, low morale, and potentially yet another rebuild.

If only football worked like real businesses do where you consistently try to hire the best person for the job and attempt to keep improving your performances, building on previous good work. Don't need to resort to complete catastrophe to enforce a change. Alas, it'll never happen and I completely understand why, but it's just really frustrating.
 
Thats some quality mental gymnastics.

Every team look lethargic and casual at times. That does not mean the manager has "no authority".

No one will be particularly pleased with that performance, but we've had a grueling schedule this season where most of the burden has fallen on the shoulders of the players who started today. Everyone wants us to win and play well, but i'll actually excuse the players for being a bit casual in a game that was more of an exhibition match than anything, especially when we have a final on the horizon.

A good leader knows when to demand 100% and when to put his foot of the gass and be a bit more lenient. Maybe you would have wanted Ole to be fuming on the sidelines and given them a proper bollocking for being a bit leisurely today, but imo that kind of leadership style is going to wear you down eventually (Look: Jose)

If this was somehow about the league title or top 4, i would have been fuming as well, but in a game like this its perfectly fine to not be 100% focused

Nothing you said disputes the fact that we look casual and lethargic at the beginning of the season, the middle of the season and the end of the season. These are facts, but I applaud you for the audacity to accuse me of mental gymnastics and when you're attempting to refute and dance around cold hard facts. And look what happened after we went 1st earlier in the season. Was it perfectly fine to not be 100% focused then too? While we're on the subject of mental gymnastics, I clearly stated I was speaking in the context of the body of work as a whole, not just these last couple of matches, but of course your response is in the context of the last couple of games because in that context you can chuck out another excuse.
 
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Is that +5 points improvement from last season then with one game to go? I’m slowly getting more depressed by the end of this season whimper and starting to dread this Europa final thought. It smacks of “job done” by every member of the playing and coaching staff I’m afraid....
 
Okay, we have moved a tiny bit forward.

Again that's not doing him justice. From the starting point, which was 7th, toxic, packed with deadweight, etc, we've come on leaps and bounds.

If you want to win people over to the e out side you need to be honest about what he's achieved, otherwise its hard to take your opinion on what he can yet achieve seriously.
 
Then leave him on. Those 10 mins wouldn't have killed him.

It's not an overreaction to expect that billion pound squad to win against a relegated Fulham side at home in front of the fans for the first time since a very very long time. We are so poorly coached it's unreal

How do you know that he didn’t signal to Ole that he was fecked? He’s 34 and he knows there’s a more important game coming up, creating big chances and dominating possession for large parts of the game is not being poorly coached, it’s called, not taking your chances.. As for the reactions on here, us drawing this game means absolutely nothing.

I’d agree with you if we created nothing and sat in our own half for most of the game but that’s not what happened. We dominated the game, had more shots, more shots on target more possession. We just couldn’t finish, it’s not a big deal, on another day we’d have won 3-0. Some of the reactions on here are embarrassing, mostly from spoilt brats. I wonder how many actually watched the game..
 
Sam Alladyce said something interesting during his post match interview against Liverpool on Sunday.

“we played well because we were not stupid enough to play out from the back against the best pressing team in Europe”.

Liverpools 3rd goal at OT came to mind straight away.
 
Then leave him on. Those 10 mins wouldn't have killed him.

It's not an overreaction to expect that billion pound squad to win against a relegated Fulham side at home in front of the fans for the first time since a very very long time. We are so poorly coached it's unreal

It was a meaningless game. Easy to say stuff with benefit of hindsight, but considering our subs have scored most number of goals this season, I'd like to think Ole knows what he's doing
 
3rd season in a row we have huge decline at the end of the season. That is something to worry about for next season
 
3rd season in a row we have huge decline at the end of the season. That is something to worry about for next season

Hmm. You sure about that? Last I remember we were arguably the most in-form team in last season's run in
 
3rd season in a row we have huge decline at the end of the season. That is something to worry about for next season

What huge decline?

We played the reserves against Leicester, no one genuinely cares about that match unless you have some type of weird agenda
Liverpool is the only game I'm dissapointed with. We conceded goals after schoolboy errors by normally solid players, like Shaw

Not winning today is down to the boys not finisingt the chances, we had about 15 shots during the game.

Other than a 0-0 draw against a Leeds side that beat City and drew against Liverpool the games prior, we've been doing a lot of winning lately.

Once again, the gentlemen of Caf are outdoing themselves with overreacting to nothing.
 
Hmm. You sure about that? Last I remember we were arguably the most in-form team in last season's run in
We were? We were great in the middle but we were not good on EL final 8.
Maybe i am wrong. Last season's covid brake completely messed up my memory
 
It was a meaningless game. Easy to say stuff with benefit of hindsight, but considering our subs have scored most number of goals this season, I'd like to think Ole knows what he's doing

For our fans in the stadium it wasn't. And I'm sure for Ole and the players it wasn't either. The only benefit of hindsight is calling this game meaningless.

Either way. For Fulham it meant feck all too. So no reason for the 2nd placed team to beat an already relegated team.
 
Ole is a steady manager who keeps it all fairly simple, he’s shown he’s better than his CV suggests but there’s also probably not a lot more to come.

Finishing season poorly is understandable, players are thinking about final and after long and difficult season it was always likely to happen.

A good transfer window is needed as is better management and coaching. Ext season should be make or break for Ole, needs a big step forward but he has done enough to be given that opportunity.
 
We're in a very weird spot now with Ole. He's obviously not good enough to win us the PL or the CL, but he's done a lot of good things at the club- a constant upward trajectory, decent signings, seemingly has the backing of the players, and could win us a Europa League final- our first trophy in years. But ultimately, let's be honest, we play pretty awful football and rely a lot on magical moments from our world class talents, rather than carve out chance after chance due to a consistent and structured pattern of play. Our CFs, whoever it is, struggle to find themselves in goalscoring positions often. We are too reliant on Bruno having a great game or a great moment. Our defense, with or without Maguire, is often a complete mess. We are prone to absolute collective meltdowns in matches - Spurs, Liverpool, Leipzig, Istanbul, Everton come to mind.

Next season, City are going to even better with a new striker. Liverpool are probably gonna make top 4 and be back with VVD and on an upwards trajectory again. Chelsea are definitely going to compete for the title. We will probably be middling around the top 4- depending on vibes, we might be near the top for a bit but ultimately will fail to win matches we should be winning because of the aforementioned issues which have not been solved and seemingly won't be.

We can't sack Ole now - after all, we've finished 2nd and are in a final. The only way we sack him is if we don't get top 4 next season (I'm fairly sure top 4 and getting out of the CL group stages will be enough for him to keep his job). The cold, ruthless, ambitious decision would be to sack him now, thank him for the progress he's made at the club, and get in a real manager with actual pedigree who can take this team to the next level (ala Tuchel) because that's what we desperately need. If the club could recognize this, and have the balls to act on it, we could mount a real title challenge next season, but obviously this will never happen- he's a club legend, the fans will hate the board for doing this, it will cause an uproar the likes of which the world has never seen, and there'll be too much pressure on the new manager right from the off. So essentially, what we're stuck with is yet another average season next year, or a terrible one which gets Ole sacked and gets us a tactical genius manager, but only if we fall out of top 4 - which means unhappy players, low morale, and potentially yet another rebuild.

If only football worked like real businesses do where you consistently try to hire the best person for the job and attempt to keep improving your performances, building on previous good work. Don't need to resort to complete catastrophe to enforce a change. Alas, it'll never happen and I completely understand why, but it's just really frustrating.

Stopped reading at “obviously not good enough”

Despite leading us to a 2nd place finish (all but 2nd place) and a deficit of 12 points compared to 33 point difference between top and us last year. But yeah “not good enough eh:lol: :lol:

We were? We were great in the middle but we were not good on EL final 8.
Maybe i am wrong. Last season's covid brake completely messed up my memory

We were arguably the most inform team in the league before the Liverpool game got called off!
 
We were? We were great in the middle but we were not good on EL final 8.
Maybe i am wrong. Last season's covid brake completely messed up my memory

Mate we covered a 14 point gap on Leicester. Apart from the draws vs Spurs, WHU and Southampton, we won the other 6 games in that time period.
 
Nothing you said disputes the fact that we look casual and lethargic at the beginning of the season, the middle of the season and the end of the season. These are facts, but I applaud you for the audacity to accuse me of mental gymnastics and when you're attempting to refute and dance around cold hard facts. And look what happened after we went 1st earlier in the season. Was it perfectly fine to not be 100% focused then too? While we're on the subject of mental gymnastics, I clearly stated I was speaking in the context of the body of work as a whole, not just these last couple of matches, but of course your response is in the context of the last couple of games because in that context you can chuck out another excuse.

So the 18 teams below us in the league are just more casual and lethargic? We tend to start games slowly, but the impressive number of comebacks this season paints a completely different picture than you try to do here. The players clearly give a feck, but if you prefer to throw your toys out of the pram and make far fetched conclusions about the professionalism and attitude because of a pointless end of the season match than i will leave you to it
 
People actually worrying about the last couple of games as if they represent this season as a whole or the future for that matter:lol:
 
It's hard to judge on these last games because we've little to play for and the players have one eye on the final and one eye on the Euros. The final is the important game.
 
People actually worrying about the last couple of games as if they represent this season as a whole or the future for that matter:lol:

This. These are meaningless games. To see some of the reactions in here makes you think we are about to get relegated or something. At the end of the day, we were never going to win the league this year, and we have clearly progressed from last season. I think whether we make the next step is less down to Solskjaer, and more down to whether we do the business on transfers. If we bring in a Varane, Rice, and Sancho (or equivalently talented players in those three key positions), we can dream about winning a major trophy next year. If it's Milenkovic, Garner back from loan, and keep Pogba on the wing, we'll be scrapping for top 4.
 
I think us being 2nd place can be misleading, our football is just so random and not just once or twice it has been obvious throughout the season.

The goals we concede looks repetitive and nothing seems to be addressing these defenses issues which with the amount we spent and the names we have at the back it should have been resolved since that spurs game at least...

In addition to that, we seem to sh**t the bed quite often and concede one or two goals in a matter of minutes, and I think one of the reasons for that is is not having a clear pattern of playing style or method.


I worry he thinks this is good enough and we can challenge next season, Chelsea and Liverpool are finding their feet again and even leicester could potentially up their game with some backing in the summer.

I like him and I really want to see him succeed with us, but he has so much to do..

I’m already shi**ing myself for that final..
 
This. These are meaningless games. To see some of the reactions in here makes you think we are about to get relegated or something. At the end of the day, we were never going to win the league this year, and we have clearly progressed from last season. I think whether we make the next step is less down to Solskjaer, and more down to whether we do the business on transfers. If we bring in a Varane, Rice, and Sancho (or equivalently talented players in those three key positions), we can dream about winning a major trophy next year. If it's Milenkovic, Garner back from loan, and keep Pogba on the wing, we'll be scrapping for top 4.

Domo arigato, talking roboto!
 
2nd place secured tonight. Loads of people including many decent journalists thought United would struggle to finish 4th especially after a poor transfer window and slow start to the season.

So credit where credit is due to Ole and the players for achieving that and showing clear progress on the last two seasons and if a trophy is won next Wednesday it will be Uniteds best and most successful season since Ferguson retired.
 
This. These are meaningless games. To see some of the reactions in here makes you think we are about to get relegated or something. At the end of the day, we were never going to win the league this year, and we have clearly progressed from last season. I think whether we make the next step is less down to Solskjaer, and more down to whether we do the business on transfers. If we bring in a Varane, Rice, and Sancho (or equivalently talented players in those three key positions), we can dream about winning a major trophy next year. If it's Milenkovic, Garner back from loan, and keep Pogba on the wing, we'll be scrapping for top 4.
Exactly. They're dead rubbers, the squad has had a grueling season and has a final coming up. I don't really blame them for taking the foot off the gas and seeing the league out.
 
I really hope we win the Europa. Would be a nice confidence boost heading into next season. We need to challenge next season. If not, Ole's time is up.
 
He needs to sort the midfield and defence out or else I foresee another slog for top 4 next season. Our biggest problem isn't, not having a right sided attacker, like some claim, but rather us being poor at transitioning play from the back and through the midfield which includes the fullbacks. Also it's important, Solskjaer understands what his budget is for next season. If it's £100m, then he needs to find 3 players within that budget, who will come in and strengthen the squad. I don't think we're in a position to spend 150m to 200m, so broadening our horizons to look for players who are on the cusp of being top class is important, rather than getting fixated on singular targets that blow a hole in our budget and then complain about not being backed. The likes of Campos and Rangnick who many wanted here, do just that by identifying young talent within a set budget.

I'd personally be happy if we sign two midfielders and a CB, or a CB, midfielder and a left sided inside attacker, within the allocated budget. That would give us a more balanced team. We can't control games even against the likes of Fulham which should be a huge concern.
 
He needs to sort the midfield and defence out or else I foresee another slog for top 4 next season. Our biggest problem isn't, not having a right sided attacker, like some claim, but rather us being poor at transitioning play from the back and through the midfield which includes the fullbacks. Also it's important, Solskjaer understands what his budget is for next season. If it's £100m, then he needs to find 3 players within that budget, who will come in and strengthen the squad. I don't think we're in a position to spend 150m to 200m, so broadening our horizons to look for players who are on the cusp of being top class is important, rather than getting fixated on singular targets that blow a hole in our budget and then complain about not being backed. The likes of Campos and Rangnick who many wanted here, do just that by identifying young talent within a set budget.

I'd personally be happy if we sign two midfielders and a CB, or a CB, midfielder and a left sided inside attacker, within the allocated budget. That would give us a more balanced team. We can't control games even against the likes of Fulham which should be a huge concern.

I don't think any players brought in will change too much regarding us controlling games better.

Ole doesn't strike me as that type of manager.
 
I think us being 2nd place can be misleading, our football is just so random and not just once or twice it has been obvious throughout the season.

The goals we concede looks repetitive and nothing seems to be addressing these defenses issues which with the amount we spent and the names we have at the back it should have been resolved since that spurs game at least...

In addition to that, we seem to sh**t the bed quite often and concede one or two goals in a matter of minutes, and I think one of the reasons for that is is not having a clear pattern of playing style or method.


I worry he thinks this is good enough and we can challenge next season, Chelsea and Liverpool are finding their feet again and even leicester could potentially up their game with some backing in the summer.

I like him and I really want to see him succeed with us, but he has so much to do..

I’m already shi**ing myself for that final..

No, the league table doesn't lie.

Fair point about the goals we concede, though. They do seem a bit typecast.
 
In a season where the teams around us all arguably had better transfers than we did, and where we've played two games per week almost every week, and with no preseason, surely no one is going to begrudge this team tiring as we near the finishing line? That too in a game which didn't even matter?

Look, I understand if you're worried re the final. I am too, and would hate to go another season trophy less but considering they've done the job in the league and that there has been a clear dip since the rescheduled games, I'm not going to blame the players and staff if they're feeling worn out or tired because truthfully speaking as a fan, I am too.
 
We're in a very weird spot now with Ole. He's obviously not good enough to win us the PL or the CL, but he's done a lot of good things at the club- a constant upward trajectory, decent signings, seemingly has the backing of the players, and could win us a Europa League final- our first trophy in years. But ultimately, let's be honest, we play pretty awful football and rely a lot on magical moments from our world class talents, rather than carve out chance after chance due to a consistent and structured pattern of play. Our CFs, whoever it is, struggle to find themselves in goalscoring positions often. We are too reliant on Bruno having a great game or a great moment. Our defense, with or without Maguire, is often a complete mess. We are prone to absolute collective meltdowns in matches - Spurs, Liverpool, Leipzig, Istanbul, Everton come to mind.

Next season, City are going to even better with a new striker. Liverpool are probably gonna make top 4 and be back with VVD and on an upwards trajectory again. Chelsea are definitely going to compete for the title. We will probably be middling around the top 4- depending on vibes, we might be near the top for a bit but ultimately will fail to win matches we should be winning because of the aforementioned issues which have not been solved and seemingly won't be.

We can't sack Ole now - after all, we've finished 2nd and are in a final. The only way we sack him is if we don't get top 4 next season (I'm fairly sure top 4 and getting out of the CL group stages will be enough for him to keep his job). The cold, ruthless, ambitious decision would be to sack him now, thank him for the progress he's made at the club, and get in a real manager with actual pedigree who can take this team to the next level (ala Tuchel) because that's what we desperately need. If the club could recognize this, and have the balls to act on it, we could mount a real title challenge next season, but obviously this will never happen- he's a club legend, the fans will hate the board for doing this, it will cause an uproar the likes of which the world has never seen, and there'll be too much pressure on the new manager right from the off. So essentially, what we're stuck with is yet another average season next year, or a terrible one which gets Ole sacked and gets us a tactical genius manager, but only if we fall out of top 4 - which means unhappy players, low morale, and potentially yet another rebuild.

If only football worked like real businesses do where you consistently try to hire the best person for the job and attempt to keep improving your performances, building on previous good work. Don't need to resort to complete catastrophe to enforce a change. Alas, it'll never happen and I completely understand why, but it's just really frustrating.
Give him the money Pep has been given first, then a second squad that would comfortably compete for a top 4. Only after that we could be sure about.

P/s: and a guy as good as Txiki Begiristain.
 
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I really like the links to grealish, Rice, Torres, Botman, Trippier, Sancho, Haaland etc.

it’s the reason I’m fine with Ole. Not because he is guaranteed to win us a title but I like the sound of his team more than it ever did under alot of other managers.

I want the squad to build up with some more quality and then shake hands with Ole if he has taken it the furthest he can.

knowing United we are just a sacking away from hiring the next young Jose mourinho and I can’t deal with the consequences of such a basic squad of football.
 
Again that's not doing him justice. From the starting point, which was 7th, toxic, packed with deadweight, etc, we've come on leaps and bounds.

If you want to win people over to the e out side you need to be honest about what he's achieved, otherwise its hard to take your opinion on what he can yet achieve seriously.
He took a team finished second with 82 points.
 
He needs to sort the midfield and defence out or else I foresee another slog for top 4 next season. Our biggest problem isn't, not having a right sided attacker, like some claim, but rather us being poor at transitioning play from the back and through the midfield which includes the fullbacks. Also it's important, Solskjaer understands what his budget is for next season. If it's £100m, then he needs to find 3 players within that budget, who will come in and strengthen the squad. I don't think we're in a position to spend 150m to 200m, so broadening our horizons to look for players who are on the cusp of being top class is important, rather than getting fixated on singular targets that blow a hole in our budget and then complain about not being backed. The likes of Campos and Rangnick who many wanted here, do just that by identifying young talent within a set budget.

I'd personally be happy if we sign two midfielders and a CB, or a CB, midfielder and a left sided inside attacker, within the allocated budget. That would give us a more balanced team. We can't control games even against the likes of Fulham which should be a huge concern.

Imo its both. If we had prime Carrick (or Scholes) in midfield alongside Fred i am confident we would have been much, much better at playing out the back. It would make us better at beating the high press and it would also mean we could get much more variety in our build up play. Lindelof and Maguire are ok at hitting those long balls into space for Greenwood/Rashford, but having a player who are consistently able to find those runs with the ball are going to make a world of difference

I also think a RW(Sancho) is a necessity. Our attack is way to loopsided right now which means teams who want to shut us out can pack the center and tell their RW to stay deep so they can double up on the left side and shut out Shaw and Rashford/Pogba. Having a another creative outlet on the right means they have to spread out more or risk Sancho tearing them apart from the right

I know getting Sancho + the next Carrick is a tall order and probably impossible in this climate
 
Give him the money Pep has been given first, then a second squad that would comfortably compete for a top 4. Only after that we could be sure about.

P/s: and a guy as good as Txiki Begiristain.

Psst. You can't speak sense in here.
 
Great to finish 2nd, worried about next season though, with Chelsea having a proper manager for the whole season I don't think we'll get 2nd, look at how close they are to us already?

Then you have to hope Liverpool don't get their act together, if they do we're 4th already, that's without the likes of Leicester, Spurs, Arsenal and Everton in the mix.

We really need to sort our consistency out, hopefully our young players will naturally improve in that regard.
 
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