Ole Gunnar Solskjær | 2021/22 Discussion

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NZT-One said:
I think rationality would be ashamed how the term gets used these days. I made that point a few times already but I think, the discussion would be a lot less stingy, if some, and I think you kind of belong into that group, would apply the same claims for "rationality" or "objectivity" yourself. I am surely not the only one who has the feeling that this particular is ready to bash everything and anything but the manager in itself. Its the Glazers, its quality of offense/midfield/defense, its squad depth at offense/midfield/defense, its being unlucky with chance creation/chance conversion, being unlucky with referee decisions, its "we are not there yet" - but in no way, shape or form is there a chance that it could have anything to do with the manager. All factors play their parts but there is no chance, the manager isn't a factor in that as well. We can and should discuss the extend of influence of each and every factor.

Putting all the blame on the manager is just as irrational as taking him out of the equation.

Controversial opinion: If Ole identified the RW as the most pushing issue of last years transfer summer, he, as part of the transfer team, should have been pushing towards not just having plan A. I would expect that sort of rationality from every member of a so called transfer team but the more you are a football person, and the more you expect this position to be a problem, you can't just line up a big transfer and chase it all summer. At some point, you just have to turn away, execute plan B.
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That's not manager job to understand and say it's impossible to sign Sancho aka plan A. That was Matt & Ed's job, they were the people who have the knowledge, information, and power as they were in charged to negotiate and deal with the budget. The manager just says his targets and changes the target if the people above him say no. This is really not rocket science.

If both Matt & Ed told Ole we can't get Sancho sooner instead of telling him the last days of window, Ole and his teams would have time to organise and execute for his plan B & C. The fact that all report last summer after 10th August were saying that the club still believe that they can land Sancho and the last week of the window we submitted a bid, that sums up everything what I posted.

Would Torres be in Ole's plan B or C if the board told Ole the club couldn't afford Torres before July 2020? Probably, who knows but I'm sure there will be plan B or C.
 
JanK said:
I'd like to see that back 3 more and more. Shaw at LCB was very promising. Telles is more of a wingback than left back. His crosses are good, he is quick and he is more attack-minded. Yes, I have seen what Shaw can do, but he was really good at LCB. Good at carrying the ball, too. Then we can change Axel and Lindelöf, depending on the opponent. AWB has shown that he can cross and attack the space, too.

Also, there was a decent shout that Rash, Greenwood and Martial are more of wide forwards than pure wingers. This 3-4-3 or 3-5-2 would be really efficient.

If we have a back 3, then no need to play McFred and overshield the defence, instead play Pogba, Fred/McTominay and Bruno in 3-5-2 and whoever from 4 strikers we have; with 3-4-3/3-4-1-2 we can play Bruno in 10 and Pogba with Fred/McTominay in the middle. Double pivot becomes less defence-minded and Pogba can more roam around and seek for areas to do the most damage.

I feel that our pure wingers (James, Diallo) are too weak to be played for their strengths, so I'd drop the 4-2-3-1 and focus mainly how to find the balance between defence and attack. Bruno adds up nicely for attack and back 3 combined with CM has its balance as well.


To be honest, we have the necessary pieces to perform at the top level, but we are still looking for wingers and trying to play with a double pivot or a back 4.
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We've played back three a few times now and it's pretty much always been a disaster.

We don't have two competent wingbacks for a start.

Also James/Diallo don't even play so I don't see how they can be used as justification for moving away from 4-2-3-1
 
UNITED ACADEMY said:
That's not manager job to understand and say it's impossible to sign Sancho aka plan A. That was Matt & Ed's job, they were the people who have the knowledge, information, and power as they were in charged to negotiate and deal with the budget. The manager just says his targets and changes the target if the people above him say no. This is really not rocket science.
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You create the impression that it is a law of nature what the managers job is and what not. Considering that there was some big shuffling around with the introduction of Murtough and Fletch, it is even more weird, that you state things like that.
I am not shocked, that you consider this as not "Ole's job". After all, thats what I wrote in my last post, you seem to think, he simply cannot be involved in anything problematic.

In addition to that, who would you think, should have been the person in the transfer team to stand up and tell the others "hey guys, we need an RW, we cannot just hope that Plan A works, please start preparations of plan B." Of course thats Ole - who was the one responsible for the sport aspects? As if we would be the only people to know what Judge and Woody were able to do in the past. If Ole was part of the transfer team, he is just as responsible as the rest of the team. And I intentionally say responsible insteat of at fault, because I think, RW might no have been that big of on issue for Ole. Still, I am sure we can agree, that we don't want to see us again chasing shadows all summer and standing in the rain in October. Just because we weren't ready to step back from Plan A and adapt. Like all other clubs have to do from time to time.

UNITED ACADEMY said:
If both Matt & Ed told Ole we can't get Sancho sooner instead of telling him the last days of window, Ole and his teams would have time to organise and execute for his plan B & C. The fact that all report last summer after 10th August were saying that the club still believe that they can land Sancho and the last week of the window we submitted a bid, that sums up everything what I posted.
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Again, you are completely convinced that others are responsible. I'd tell you that I, would I have been in Oles position, would have prepare the transfer team with Plans B to F at the start of the summer. It appears pretty naive to me, that you think, that Ole didn't have enough time to execute plan B. Thats madness. A loan, some veteran player, some guy from a Chinese team like Ighalo, strengthening another position to be not as reliant on an RW - there are so many options that would have been better than just waiting and hoping.
And I agree with you, I certainly believe that the club believed that they finally will succeed with Sancho. But the responsible figures shouldn't just "believe". They should make sure. With Plan A to Plan C. Maybe thats me being very German but still, I wouldn't want to be forced into a situation that could be avoided just by putting more effort in planning and preparation.
 
NZT-One said:
You create the impression that it is a law of nature what the managers job is and what not. Considering that there was some big shuffling around with the introduction of Murtough and Fletch, it is even more weird, that you state things like that.
I am not shocked, that you consider this as not "Ole's job". After all, thats what I wrote in my last post, you seem to think, he simply cannot be involved in anything problematic.

In addition to that, who would you think, should have been the person in the transfer team to stand up and tell the others "hey guys, we need an RW, we cannot just hope that Plan A works, please start preparations of plan B." Of course thats Ole - who was the one responsible for the sport aspects? As if we would be the only people to know what Judge and Woody were able to do in the past. If Ole was part of the transfer team, he is just as responsible as the rest of the team. And I intentionally say responsible insteat of at fault, because I think, RW might no have been that big of on issue for Ole. Still, I am sure we can agree, that we don't want to see us again chasing shadows all summer and standing in the rain in October. Just because we weren't ready to step back from Plan A and adapt. Like all other clubs have to do from time to time.


Again, you are completely convinced that others are responsible. I'd tell you that I, would I have been in Oles position, would have prepare the transfer team with Plans B to F at the start of the summer. It appears pretty naive to me, that you think, that Ole didn't have enough time to execute plan B. Thats madness. A loan, some veteran player, some guy from a Chinese team like Ighalo, strengthening another position to be not as reliant on an RW - there are so many options that would have been better than just waiting and hoping.
And I agree with you, I certainly believe that the club believed that they finally will succeed with Sancho. But the responsible figures shouldn't just "believe". They should make sure. With Plan A to Plan C. Maybe thats me being very German but still, I wouldn't want to be forced into a situation that could be avoided just by putting more effort in planning and preparation.
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It was reported that Ole kept pushing for Sancho. The plan was obviously to wait till the last days and try and lowball dortmund and see if they give in as the Sancho price was too high. They didn't. The plan B was a loan deal hence the Dembele links. Ole and that new DoF has said already that we will not make panic buys and would be willing to wait using short term deals. We couldn't get that loan deal though. So the only other option I think was just to keep going with Greenwood who was playing well at RW. I'm not sure if we would have gotten Diallo and Pellistri if we got Sancho though but that's my two cents. Seeing as we are after Sancho still maybe we'd have gotten one of them at least
 
NZT-One said:
You create the impression that it is a law of nature what the managers job is and what not. Considering that there was some big shuffling around with the introduction of Murtough and Fletch, it is even more weird, that you state things like that.
I am not shocked, that you consider this as not "Ole's job". After all, thats what I wrote in my last post, you seem to think, he simply cannot be involved in anything problematic.

In addition to that, who would you think, should have been the person in the transfer team to stand up and tell the others "hey guys, we need an RW, we cannot just hope that Plan A works, please start preparations of plan B." Of course thats Ole - who was the one responsible for the sport aspects? As if we would be the only people to know what Judge and Woody were able to do in the past. If Ole was part of the transfer team, he is just as responsible as the rest of the team. And I intentionally say responsible insteat of at fault, because I think, RW might no have been that big of on issue for Ole. Still, I am sure we can agree, that we don't want to see us again chasing shadows all summer and standing in the rain in October. Just because we weren't ready to step back from Plan A and adapt. Like all other clubs have to do from time to time.


Again, you are completely convinced that others are responsible. I'd tell you that I, would I have been in Oles position, would have prepare the transfer team with Plans B to F at the start of the summer. It appears pretty naive to me, that you think, that Ole didn't have enough time to execute plan B. Thats madness. A loan, some veteran player, some guy from a Chinese team like Ighalo, strengthening another position to be not as reliant on an RW - there are so many options that would have been better than just waiting and hoping.
And I agree with you, I certainly believe that the club believed that they finally will succeed with Sancho. But the responsible figures shouldn't just "believe". They should make sure. With Plan A to Plan C. Maybe thats me being very German but still, I wouldn't want to be forced into a situation that could be avoided just by putting more effort in planning and preparation.
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This is just common in real life that CEO & Director have more power than the manager to make decision whether the company can afford to add new member into the manager's team. A good example of the story that Ed called Bournemouth for 15 minutes to sign Josh Kings. Another good example, Ole wanted Reguillon, but the board told Ole to sign alternative (Telles) because Real Madrid wanted to insert buyback clause on him. More example? Look at video below. Ole chose the player but the one who does the transfer negotiation & financial decision whether the club can afford the player are not football manager.

How is Murtough and Fletch are being appointed making what I stated weirder? Are you forgetting the fact that Ed had been working on that ESL project? Put it together and it will make sense for you.

I never say Ole cannot be involved in anything problematic. I was specifically talking about a topic that related to problem that involves our board and negotiator and you were replying to that post mate.

How is the plan B can be executed if the board & negotiator still deluded themselves to think they can actually execute plan A by convincing Dortmund to sell in the last minute? Remember, that saga was on until end of the week transfer window, while the club wasted their time on Sancho instead of move on, the options for Plan B & C would be gone. For instance, Torres was signed by City on 4th August 2020, which 6 days before Dortmund's deadline on Sancho. So by the time we give up on Sancho, we already lost him.

Good interview as example from Michael Knighton at 4:20 about his time at Manchester United & 6:20 about football manager & the board in transfer business.
 
UNITED ACADEMY said:
This is just common in real life that CEO & Director have more power than the manager to make decision whether the company can afford to add new member into the manager's team. A good example of the story that Ed called Bournemouth for 15 minutes to sign Josh Kings. Another good example, Ole wanted Reguillon, but the board told Ole to sign alternative (Telles) because Real Madrid wanted to insert buyback clause on him. More example? Look at video below. Ole chose the player but the one who does the transfer negotiation & financial decision whether the club can afford the player are not football manager.

How is Murtough and Fletch are being appointed making what I stated weirder? Are you forgetting the fact that Ed had been working on that ESL project? Put it together and it will make sense for you.

I never say Ole cannot be involved in anything problematic. I was specifically talking about a topic that related to problem that involves our board and negotiator and you were replying to that post mate.

How is the plan B can be executed if the board & negotiator still deluded themselves to think they can actually execute plan A by convincing Dortmund to sell in the last minute? Remember, that saga was on until end of the week transfer window, while the club wasted on Sancho instead of move on, the options for Plan B & C would be gone. For instance, Torres was signed by City on 4th August 2020, which 6 days before Dortmund's deadline on Sancho. So by the time we give up on Sancho, we already lost him.

Good interview as example from Michael Knighton at 4:20 about his time at Manchester United & 6:20 about football manager & the board in transfer business.
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Did Manchester United the club! Want Josh King?

Memphis Depay?
Schweinstiger?
Ibrahimovic?
Fellaini?
Daley Blind?

Or are these manager influenced signings? The drill you talk and believe at times is shocking.

Also you managing Tesco ain’t the same as being a football manager at Manchester United.
 
Mainoldo said:
Did Manchester United the club! Want Josh King?

Memphis Depay?
Schweinstiger?
Ibrahimovic?
Fellaini?
Daley Blind?

Or are these manager influenced signings? The drill you talk and believe at times is shocking.

Also you managing Tesco ain’t the same as being a football manager at Manchester United.
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Did you read this below? Because that post was posted to you yesterday and actually answered your questions and counter your post. You can come back after you read that and tell me what you disagree about it.

UNITED ACADEMY said:
Players are Ole's signings. However, the ones who do transfer negotiation, adjusting budget, understand whether players are available or affordable is not Ole or the manager's job, it's Ed & Matt Judge responsibility. And you don't understand that.

Torres had 100m release clause in 2019 and Valencia wouldn't let him go in 2019 for less than that. In 2020, Torres was available because his contract was expired in 2021 and Valencia was forced to sell their main players due to financial problem. Man City signed Torres on 4th August 2020 and we were still chasing for Sancho at that time. Why is it Ole's fault for targeting the better player to upgrade his starting XI? :wenger:

Everything is Ole's fault in your mind. Will you ever think rationally sometime?
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sglowrider said:
Interesting insight from Carl Anka, The Athletic on the job Ole has had to do:

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Saw that yesterday, good watch. Anyone CBA to watch the whole thing, the 10mins or so from 32mins onward are pretty enlightening into how shoddy the club has been and the sort of thing Ole has had to sort out. Goes far beyond the obvious things we can see like needing a half decent #6.
 
R77 said:
Saw that yesterday, good watch. Anyone CBA to watch the whole thing, the 10mins or so from 32mins onward are pretty enlightening into how shoddy the club has been and the sort of thing Ole has had to sort out. Goes far beyond the obvious things we can see like needing a half decent #6.
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Indeed, and considering that Anka is far from an Ole fan, it's telling that he's the one who's relaying the news
 
NZT-One said:
You create the impression that it is a law of nature what the managers job is and what not. Considering that there was some big shuffling around with the introduction of Murtough and Fletch, it is even more weird, that you state things like that.
I am not shocked, that you consider this as not "Ole's job". After all, thats what I wrote in my last post, you seem to think, he simply cannot be involved in anything problematic.

In addition to that, who would you think, should have been the person in the transfer team to stand up and tell the others "hey guys, we need an RW, we cannot just hope that Plan A works, please start preparations of plan B." Of course thats Ole - who was the one responsible for the sport aspects? As if we would be the only people to know what Judge and Woody were able to do in the past. If Ole was part of the transfer team, he is just as responsible as the rest of the team. And I intentionally say responsible insteat of at fault, because I think, RW might no have been that big of on issue for Ole. Still, I am sure we can agree, that we don't want to see us again chasing shadows all summer and standing in the rain in October. Just because we weren't ready to step back from Plan A and adapt. Like all other clubs have to do from time to time.


Again, you are completely convinced that others are responsible. I'd tell you that I, would I have been in Oles position, would have prepare the transfer team with Plans B to F at the start of the summer. It appears pretty naive to me, that you think, that Ole didn't have enough time to execute plan B. Thats madness. A loan, some veteran player, some guy from a Chinese team like Ighalo, strengthening another position to be not as reliant on an RW - there are so many options that would have been better than just waiting and hoping.
And I agree with you, I certainly believe that the club believed that they finally will succeed with Sancho. But the responsible figures shouldn't just "believe". They should make sure. With Plan A to Plan C. Maybe thats me being very German but still, I wouldn't want to be forced into a situation that could be avoided just by putting more effort in planning and preparation.
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We don't actually know how the club handles transfers. A fair assumption would be that the manager, scouts and someone like Butt/Murtough look at potential signings and compile a list of players for each position, ranked by priority. This list will get evaluated and updated on a fairly regular basis, as new players are discovered/brought to attention. Woodward/Judge will use this list to start making inquiries. I can guarantee you that Ole doesn't just say "I want Sancho" and then stands by and watches Ed spend an entire window failing to sign him. There's no need to go "oh shit, we might not get our preferred target. Better sit down and find an alternative" because there's usually numerous alternatives ready to go. Ole shouldn't have to go to Ed and tell him to move on to the next target on the list, Ed's the guy doing the transfers, he's the one who should know if there's a chance a deal can be made.
 
R77 said:
Saw that yesterday, good watch. Anyone CBA to watch the whole thing, the 10mins or so from 32mins onward are pretty enlightening into how shoddy the club has been and the sort of thing Ole has had to sort out. Goes far beyond the obvious things we can see like needing a half decent #6.
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Fergie had a system or a machinery running smoothly like integration of new players for example.
Wonder who dismantled it? Moyes, LVG?
 
Decent season but this team.and coach will not challenge for trophies. Can put my house on it.
 
Just fecking shite. Winning the Europa League could be a curse as it will mean another season of this utter crap.
 
Coasting to a final! Badly need players for next season and kill the bloody games off
 
Going absolutely nowhere under his management.

5 points better than last season after having Bruno for a full season in addition to Pogba, Cavani and Greenwood.

No evident plan on the pitch after 3 years, everything left to the players' whims.
 
Bunch of good games followed by a bunch of abysmal ones. Story of Ole Gunnar Solskjaer as a manager.
 
Took off our 2 most likely goalscorers while drawing at home against a relegated side.
 
Our football is mediocre. Worried about where we are headed under Ole. Can only hope we buy brilliantly because his coaching does feck all for this team.
 
Like I said in the matchday thread, third season in a row under Ole that we finish poorly. At some point we have to stop blaming fatigue as if it's some sort of mystical thing that happens independently of how the squad's used over the course of a season. Not going to win many competitions if we keep limping over the finish line every season.
 
The preparation for the finals was just terrible. We are in poor form and this is not how you should be playing before finals. Looks like our players are already switched off, which isn't good.
 
We should have done everything we could to win the game. I don't think Ole seemed to care as much about momentum as player fitness. We were about to lose our insane record of not losing a home game which we've led at half time, and he was smiling in his dugout with 3 minutes to go pulling off match winners in Cavani and Greenwood.

I am expecting the worst in the EL final.
 
Ronnie O'Sullivan said:
Even if we lose the Europa Final, Ole will keep his job and the owners will likely give him another 3 year contract.
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He'll keep his job because all the other top managers have agreed to join other clubs and there is no one available that we can readily get.
 
Look, we’re second and in a final but at times it feels like we’re so bad. Like the basics of football are barely there, our football for the most part (even when winning) is dog shit.

Not sure how taking off Greenwood and Cavani whilst 1-1 is going to work either
 
There seems to be a lot of people on here and social media who are more happy when we drop points, lets them take our their frustrations on the club and more specifically on the manager. Pathetic really.
 
padzilla said:
Just fecking shite. Winning the Europa League could be a curse as it will mean another season of this utter crap.
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Over reaction in my opinion. Look at what’s happened in the last fortnight:

- The schedule fecked us.
- Our 80m centre back and captain is out injured
- We confirmed top four and missed out on the title so our focus dropped


On top of that, aside from 1 week we have been playing a game every 3 or 4 days, it’s no surprised they’re running on fumes, especially when you consider schedule tipped that over the edge. When was the last time we had any sort of time for preparation and coaching? We had no real break or preseason so we’ve been playing for over 12 months now with no rest.

If we can strengthen our weakest positions. CB, DM and RW, we should make progress again next season. That’s what matters.
 
Have somehow, in a matter of weeks gone from a really good trajectory to the Europa league final possibly putting huge pressure on his job security.

This team is absolutely infuriating
 
UtdAgain08 said:
There seems to be a lot of people on here and social media who are more happy when we drop points, lets them take our their frustrations on the club and more specifically on the manager. Pathetic really.
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Name those people who are happy when we drop points.
 
With kids playing next game, I don't expect a win .

Will end the season on 71 points. That's just 5 points increase from our previous season. Means, a win and a draw more from last year.

5 more goals scored than last year but 7 more conceded.

To be frank, I don't consider that as an improvement atleast not to our standards.
 
I wonder what his fanboys would say If he does not win EL? any football fan with little knowledge can see the huge difference between him and Klopp, Pep. How a club in the size and prestige like our club accept the fact that our rivals have a 10 times better manager than us is unbelievable.
 
SER19 said:
Have somehow, in a matter of weeks gone from a really good trajectory to the Europa league final possibly putting huge pressure on his job security.

This team is absolutely infuriating
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It's the story of our team under OGS. We can win against anybody but we can lose to pretty much everyone too.
 
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