Managers do and should rely on their best players, not discounting that. However any manager worth his salt should also not be rely one player to have his team play cohesive football and get results against poor outfits. Take Fernandes out of this side and I'm not sure you'll see the massive improvement people think they're seeing in our general performances.
Ole Gunnar Solskjær | 2021/22 Discussion
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Managers do and should rely on their best players, not discounting that. However any manager worth his salt should also not be rely one player to have his team play cohesive football and get results against poor outfits. Take Fernandes out of this side and I'm not sure you'll see the massive improvement people think they're seeing in our general performances.
Fernandes was off form for the best part of a month until we played Roma. We still kept on winning, and he's arguably been our 2nd best player behind Shaw during the season overall. We also battered Spurs during this run for example, and he was for the most part a cog in the performance rather than the main man.
We've gotten to the point where he is one among three or four key players who are important to the team, but by no means is he the sole basis of our success in any one match. The key is to add more Bruno's and develop more Shaw's and Rashford's from within the squad.
I like Shaw and always stick up for him.
But, it is ridiculous to say Shaw is a better player overall this season than Bruno.
I can think of another manager that was lauded as the best in the world, but his team have struggled immensely this season without one of their best players. I think all top managers rely on having their best players available.
His contract runs out at the end of the next season. If he by that time not won the PL or the CL then he should go regardless of the place we finish in the league. Rebuild bs can not go on for a decade.
Why did Chelsea and Spurs sack their managers ? And Arsenal might ?
Chelsea because Lampard had 2 wins, 1 draw and 5 defeats in the 8 games leading up to him being sacked.
Spurs because everyone as usual hated Mourinho
Arsenal because they are 9th in the table - 18 points behind us. And lost to Villareal
I don't even understand why you compare this to OGS whose record is 17 wins, 9 draws and 1 defeat in 27 matches in the league - and reaching the Europa League final after destroying Granada 4-0, Roma 8-5, Sociedad 4-0 and then beating Milan 2-1
I am sorry - but I wonder what world you live in. If this isn't good enough - it's not high standards, it's ridiculously high standards which no manager can follow. every single season.
Funniest thing is this: We win it and the 'ins' will be running wild telling everyone this is progress while the outs will say it's 'only a tin pot cup'.
We lose and the 'ins' will say that it doesn't matter it was the 'only a tin pot cup' while the outs will use it as a stick to beat Ole with.
I already know the posters from both sides who are setting the wheels in motion for either scenario. For me, I said at the start of the season that part of progression would be reaching a cup final/winning it - just reaching the final is mission accomplished and losing a one-off final can happen.
In saying that, I would obviously be disappointed if we don't win it. I feel it'll be a great platform to build upon, and my belief is that success breeds a successful, winning mentality. Ole, by his own admissions focuses a-lot on man management/squad harmony, and I believe this bunch of lads winning something together will be a good platform for us to build upon for future success. Going into next season after finishing second and being EL winners will bring a real confidence to the squad. It's not a major cup obviously, but it would be great to see Ole as our manager lift a trophy and winning cups, leagues etc. is what it's all about. Obviously losing in the final doesn't negate all the good work we done to get there. But I admit I enjoyed our EL win under Jose - it was one of the good nights under his tutelage.
Overall, winning it changes very little for Ole in a-lot of ways but I truly believe we can use it as a platform to build on.
Not really - what we have done in the league is progress. What we have done to get to the Europa League final - by basically toying with every single team we have played apart from Milan, is progress. It will still be progress if we are beaten by Villareal - but it will mean we wont need get the trophy which probably will make it a lot easier to take the next step. And it will mean that OGS isn't quite as safe as he is if we win.
Well yeah, that's exactly what I said as my personal take. However, what I said at the start of the post I can near guarantee will happen too. Also, from a personal perspective, I would be disappointed if we don't win it but it doesn't negate the fact that it's progression. I honestly don't think he's any more or less safe whether we win it or lose it. Coming second and making the final of the EL will have him safe either way.
Yeah I'd absolutely agree with your view on how things will go around here either way and that a cup can be a stepping stone for a team, although not a major factor in a manager's contract renewal.
Zero importance after 3 years as a manager. The only thing he should be judge with is him winning the PL or CL. At the end of his contract if he is not winning the big trophies, then the club should let him go back to Norway.
Are you sure? He's set for an extension to 2024.
Ridiculous
Funniest thing is this: We win it and the 'ins' will be running wild telling everyone this is progress while the outs will say it's 'only a tin pot cup'.
We lose and the 'ins' will say that it doesn't matter it was the 'only a tin pot cup' while the outs will use it as a stick to beat Ole with.
I already know the posters from both sides who are setting the wheels in motion for either scenario. For me, I said at the start of the season that part of progression would be reaching a cup final/winning it - just reaching the final is mission accomplished and losing a one-off final can happen.
In saying that, I would obviously be disappointed if we don't win it. I feel it'll be a great platform to build upon, and my belief is that success breeds a successful, winning mentality. Ole, by his own admissions focuses a-lot on man management/squad harmony, and I believe this bunch of lads winning something together will be a good platform for us to build upon for future success. Going into next season after finishing second and being EL winners will bring a real confidence to the squad. It's not a major cup obviously, but it would be great to see Ole as our manager lift a trophy and winning cups, leagues etc. is what it's all about. Obviously losing in the final doesn't negate all the good work we done to get there. But I admit I enjoyed our EL win under Jose - it was one of the good nights under his tutelage.
Overall, winning it changes very little for Ole in a-lot of ways but I truly believe we can use it as a platform to build on.
Not sure if you're agreeing or disagreeing with my point.
But I do agree with the 1st two lines of your post. Because that's exactly what has been happening on this forum for the past 2 years.
Win a game against better side - Individual brilliance, " but he cant beat SHU"
Win against a poorer side - we were expected to win this
Lose against a better side - Top managers make their side perform better than sum of its parts, "games like this show we wont win PL/CL under Ole"
Lose against poorer side - * Avoid this thread
Oh give me a break! So if we get 90 points next season and end 3 points behind City - he should be fired ? People like you are the reason I seriously fear a fan-owned football club
Thankfully @Giggsyking is being sarcastic here. He accepts that finishing 2nd is progress.
https://www.redcafe.net/threads/wou...e-poll-reopened.450911/page-835#post-26353027
https://www.redcafe.net/threads/wou...e-poll-reopened.450911/page-835#post-26353027
Sorry. This is BS, man. You need to asses based on circumstances. For instance, if next season Rashford, Maguire, or Bruno are out for a season, 100% it would massively affect us. How about if City spend 300m this Summer, while we spend pittance?
Ridiculous for fans with no ambitions to win big trophies. Fans who are happy to be there hovering in the top 6 for eternity without winning anything of importance.
How did Liverpool win the CL and PL with city doing the same thing? Sorry, not buying your excuses.
You can’t say “win the EPL or UCL in the next 12 months or buh bye.” It’s fair to say you expect a challenge for those titles, but even under Fergie I didn’t ‘expect’ to win them, I expected the club to challenge.
There are too many variables out of ones control, if we’re up there fighting next season and don’t win it it’s still good progress. No point being so binary.
Yeah thats it's exactly. No nuance or decision making based on the actual reality of the situation in front of your face.
You probably think that it's ruthless and that's what big clubs do.
It's never been the Man Utd way, though has it?
Read my post again. I said, if he does not win anything of importance at the end of his contract. the club should let him go. In the beginning of the season when fans where asked about our realstic goal for this season I said to fight for the title (which we didnt) or at least reach the CL final (we didnt). A club in the size and the prestige of our giant club should not be happy finishing top 4. It is nauseating to hear the "first time since Fergie finish twice in top 4". It tells you that the mediocrity has gotten too deep in our fanbase.Thankfully @Giggsyking is being sarcastic here. He accepts that finishing 2nd is progress.
https://www.redcafe.net/threads/wou...e-poll-reopened.450911/page-835#post-26353027
Who exactly do we replace him with?
Does anyone really take the few remaining 'Ole outers' seriously anymore?
No, they are a bit like Spurs. Always good for a laugh.
This! Sometimes I seriously wonder why I bother trying to argue in this place
I gave up a long time ago.
I'm agreeing - well from my perspective anyway, but I know others will clearly have a different take. As I said, at the end of last season I posted a number of my own personal expectations for this season which were a comfortable top 4 finish, reach a cup final/win a cup and improve our playing style. For me, Ole has now achieved all that so losing a one off final won't change the fact we've made good progress. Nevertheless, I would of course be disappointed if we don't win it as I feel it would be a good platform to build upon. But either way, it's been a good season with steady progress.
Nobody is saying we are happy or that we "have arrived" by finishing in top 4 for two seasons in a row. But it's a tangible result of progress compated to the years before since Fergie. It means that top 4 should be the absolute minimum for us, which it hasn't been for a while.
The next step is to realistically challenge for the title, which we came closer to this year than I thought we would at this stage of Ole's tenure.
And really, regarding European competitions, we have mostly breezed through EL this season against much tougher opposition than in 2017. Had one cup result gone a different way for us before Christmas I feel certain that we would have at least gotten a good way into the CL knockouts. Now it's time to finish this season as best as possible and then prove that in the next season.
after that summer window many thought we'd be lucky to finish top 4Apart from Sir Alex. We have also been ruthless.
Big Ron sacked after winning the FA cup twice and 5 consecutive top 4 finishes. LVG right after winning the FA cup. Jose after finishing second and winning two titles. DM after only few months as a manager. I dont think Real Madrid fans are losing sleep after sacking the managers and winning 14 CL.
As always, make the discussion personal. Bring some pity laughs from other posters to bully another poster. Why are you so sensitive and tend to make the discussions personal. Are you Ole's mother?
I get where you're coming from. We seem to be so comfortable and happy with 2nd place and Europa league final. People are still reluctant to put pressure on Ole by saying he should win the title. I miss the pressure cooker environment we had before, even though it did get toxic when we didn't have managers (or even upper management) who could back it up.
With that said, expecting a CL Final is incredibly harsh. Those do not come by very often and there's a lot more luck involved in them than in a league campaign. It's fair to ask to fight for the title and we did to a certain extent. My hope for next season is that Ole has finally finished learning and growing as a manager, and we can all agree that we need a league win next season, or at least get back to a certain level of expectation. It's been way too long.
Do you even get the sense that the job at hand is just too much for a nice guy like Ole?
That is the job of the club not me. As a fan of the biggest club in the world, I expect winning major trophies and not being happy celebrating "two successive top 4 finish". Their are zero pressure on the manager to win the league or the CL which is strange for a club as big as ours.
Reread what you've written.
And genuinely what were the odds of us actually being in a title challenge or CL final at the start of the season? If you really think we should sack our manager for not achieving which was at 100/1 or so odds, guess you'd never be satisfied
So the fact there isn't really anybody out there, we could put ourselves in a really bad position.
This is where the OleOut brigade are disingenuous, nobody is celebrating that, people bring that up because it shows we’ve made progress but I suppose you already know this.
I want to hold Ole's supporters accountable for the expectation, most of them will not give you a direct answer. they will try to hide their goals for next season, some of them will lower their expectation (like they did at the begining at the season) to make a top 4 finish as a major trophy.
Is it not realistic to win the league next season? If not what is?
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