Ole Gunnar Solskjær | 2021/22 Discussion

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That was Klopp's 2nd full season in charge. It's true that Liverpool finished 4th with 75 points that season but didn't mention that they also played in the Champions League final which OGS won't acheive at the end of his 2nd full season in charge of United.
He also threw the domestic cups away and only got through a tight CL group because of the slightest of head to head margins, on GD they would have not made it. And that group wasn't the strongest either: PSG, Napoli, Red Star. Certainly not the same as a finalist and semi-finalist from the last year's competition.

So yeah, not exactly the same.
 
Lukaku, De Gea, Young, Rashford, Pogba, Martial, Smalling, Matic.

It’s not bad. Conte could work with that. Well we know he can. He’s about to win the league with 4 of our players.

It doesn't counter the point at all because you are mentioning some players who are declining, some ageing that can't even play week in week out, some young players that are not in their prime yet. You need to stop forgetting or purposely ignoring what I posted and I'll be gladly repeat them specifically with bold mark (below) to remind you so they will stuck into your head forever. :lol:

Conte also had top top players who were still in their prime that won the PL title when he was hired as Chelsea manager. Thus why the time and development were not an issue when Conte already had top top players in their prime age.

Yeah it's Serie A mate, you can't compare it to EPL that tier above it. None of this season Serie A teams are even comparable to Man City. And the fact that there is no longer Serie A teams are still in UCL and only one team AS Roma in EL sums it up.
 
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He also threw the domestic cups away and only got through a tight CL group because of the slightest of head to head margins, on GD they would have not made it. And that group wasn't the strongest either: PSG, Napoli, Red Star. Certainly not the same as a finalist and semi-finalist from the last year's competition.

So yeah, not exactly the same.

You’re confusing the years.

The year in question they finished top of their (very easy) group without losing a match and beat Porto, Man City and Roma en route to the final.
 
Thats ok, thanks for saying sorry, no worries. I probably do come across as negative because I'm not happy with Ole as our manager and most of my posts are about that. I made the same mistake of posting too much when Moyes was manager and got the Anti Scottish tag.. :wenger:
Ha, it’s easy to become negative at times I suppose, I just try to enjoy the ride, happy ish so far.

tones hard to get across but it was only said in jest, like I had a oh yeah I must have got the right name moment when I seen those from so many years ago :)
 
If he wins a trophy or hopefully 2 and gets second place then there will be no arguments he doesn't deserve next year. A poster above said we need a defender and attacker and for the board to back him. I'd argue our biggest need is a top class CM. If we start the season with Mcfred as our most played cm partnership we aren't competting for the big trophies. I don't think Ole is good enough. He has issues with subs, squad rotation, tactics and talent recognition. I'd love to proven wrong and for him to win the trophies we want but keeping this season aside, we need a big summer. Keep Pogba, sign a midfielder and one other signing and ole should have no excuses when it comes to his team.

If he gets 2nd at the end of the season, there is no point in sacking him then. I still do not think he is going to win the PL or the CL and the biggest issue for me is not Ole himself as per but his coaching staff hence it is his responsibility. He may not get the players he wants but sure for heck he can get better and more experienced coaches than Carrick and McKenna.
Yes he needs a top quality DM and another top quality CF for sure.
 
Speaking of biased I think your post is biased or you didn't read the second paragraph. I'm saying this not trying to wind you up so let me explain it here in two parts.

One, Spurs had very good squad in the season when they reached UCL Final. Their squad was different to what they have now because they had prime Aldeweireld, Eriksen, Vertonghen, Trippier, Rose. Some of those players could upgrade our team. And I'm not being biased because I have been sticking to my words about this before in December 2020 I made statements that lot of players from Poch Spurs's XI are actually an upgrade to our ''current'' XI (check link below). Our players are not in their prime age right now.
https://www.redcafe.net/threads/epl-title-race-20-21.459537/post-26493925

How does spurs players improving our squad has anything to do with what I wrote? I was comparing Poch's spurs vs Mou's Spurs. The difference between their squads is that they were 1 year older, they didnt lost anyone important in the summer after.

My point is players looking class or average is highly influenced by the manager in turn.
[/QUOTE]


Two, who said managers don't influence big time on player's potential/level? Come on, let's not making things up here. If anything, I have been saying Ole is a big influence on how our players have shown improvement every year and being well developed. End of the day, you don't turn a baby into a man in one year because there are steps, learn how to walk, talk and etc. Same with footballers, you don't turn young age footballers to their full potential in 1-2 years.

And other thing is, read the second paragraph of the post you replied because your point makes zero sense to counter mine.

Again read the post I wrote I never said anything about Ole, you're just assuming stuff. Any way moving on.
 
The position absolutely is the main thing. The points totals are completely irrelevant. Just so we’re clear, Man City of 17/18 are better than United 07/08?

Klopp got to the CL final and got battered by Madrid, if Liverpool had played Madrid in the round of 16 they’d have been knocked out.

Again the point is, nobody is comparing Ole and Klopp as managers. people are comparing the jobs they have done at their respective clubs, they’re not too dissimilar. I find It quite funny when people get upset when you compare the jobs they have both done.

Except for the trophies, the style of football, the pressing and the setting high standards.
 
You’re confusing the years.

The year in question they finished top of their (very easy) group without losing a match and beat Porto, Man City and Roma en route to the final.

That makes it worse then. Because it is even much easier group stage of UCL and they had the same amount of wins (3) as ours this season in UCL.
 
If he gets 2nd at the end of the season, there is no point in sacking him then. I still do not think he is going to win the PL or the CL and the biggest issue for me is not Ole himself as per but his coaching staff hence it is his responsibility. He may not get the players he wants but sure for heck he can get better and more experienced coaches than Carrick and McKenna.
Yes he needs a top quality DM and another top quality CF for sure.
I agree but the addition of fletcher and promotion of the two scottish guys implies we are stuck in this "traditional" style of people and football. We had a slight taste of an old van gaal and it was boring so people are turned off "philosophy" managers. It'd be much easier to swallow all this talk of progress if we were playing a modern style of football and keeping up with the tactical innovational happening over the past decade.
 
How does spurs players improving our squad has anything to do with what I wrote? I was comparing Poch's spurs vs Mou's Spurs. The difference between their squads is that they were 1 year older, they didnt lost anyone important in the summer after.

It is just to make sure you don't say biased again when I complimented that Spurs squad. Even 1 year older is still big difference. John Terry was in PFA TOTY in 14/15, following season not the same player anymore, massive declined.

My point is players looking class or average is highly influenced by the manager in turn.

So we have the same point but you called mine as biased? :rolleyes:

Again read the post I wrote I never said anything about Ole, you're just assuming stuff. Any way moving on.

The thread is about Ole.
 
Speaking of biased I think your post is biased or you didn't read the second paragraph. I'm saying this not trying to wind you up so let me explain it here in two parts.

One, Spurs had very good squad in the season when they reached UCL Final. Their squad was different to what they have now because they had prime Aldeweireld, Eriksen, Vertonghen, Trippier, Rose. Some of those players could upgrade our team. And I'm not being biased because I have been sticking to my words about this before in December 2020 I made statements that lot of players from Poch Spurs's XI are actually an upgrade to our ''current'' XI (check link below). Our players are not in their prime age right now.
https://www.redcafe.net/threads/epl-title-race-20-21.459537/post-26493925

Two, who said managers don't influence big time on player's potential/level? Come on, let's not making things up here. If anything, I have been saying Ole is a big influence on how our players have shown improvement every year and being well developed. End of the day, you don't turn a baby into a man in one year because there are steps, learn how to walk, talk and etc. Same with footballers, you don't turn young age footballers to their full potential in 1-2 years.

And other thing is, read the second paragraph of the post you replied because your point makes zero sense to counter mine.
For the sake of it: would you be so kind to at least give some more in-depth explanation about the particular influence of the current manager in the improvement of one particular player. Bullet points might be enough, you seem so sure about it, so there must be some striking things.

BTW: Of course it is valid to bring that Prime-time factor into the equasion. Doesn't really make it easier though. How does somebody get into that prime? I think experience and/or playing in a system that fits that player perfectly and/or getting improved by coaches. I am sure that experience applies to our our players. The system fits players like Bruno and Rashford like a glove. The others - I am not sure. Improvement by coaching, I don't see that, you do - maybe we don't look at the same things so it would be nice for you to explain.

Klopp finished on 75 points and 4th in his 3rd season. Lying to prove a point isn't really helping the debate here.

He also got knocked out early in the league cup and fa Cup so perhaps the comparison is fair.
My apologies, I fecked up the columns in my source.

I agree though with another poster: my point was, comparisons only get you so far so lets focus on the things at hand. The things that are apparent issues of the team and how they are approached. It is a bit unlucky, that both of the best managers in improving players are now in the same league. Of course they had different conditions. Wasn't my intention to negate that fact.

So, so far so good then. Grealish will be our Van Dijk signing and next year we'll go close. Cup runs are hard to guage because it's often about the luck of the draw.
Bottom line, Ole needs to be backed with a big signing in his 3rd summer the way Klopp was with Van Dijk. Then the comparison will be fair and Ole won't have excuses if we don't challenge next year.
So there it is. We only need to add one great player. The question is only for which position. So I guess we will repeat that vicious circle for a while.


First of all points totals are completely irrelevant...

What? It might be irrelevant for the size of the trophy, that's true. But it is certainly not irrelevant when trying to evaluate the job of your squad and/or manager. With all due respect - that statement feels insane to me.
Imagine this scenario: we add a great player to our team this summer. We go into the season. We win all our games except for draws in all games against City and Liverpool. We become third in the end because Liverpool and City scored more goals. What do you think the reaction in a place like this will be if somebody claims we have to get rid of the manager because he only brought us 3rd?
(I know it is an exaggerated example and of course conditions differ year by year. But you can only play against the team you are scheduled. How good or bad it is, or to how much of an extent their playing style matches yours is something you can't influence. Getting 3 points by winning is all you can achieve. So of course, if our competitors in City and Liverpool have 95+ point-seasons in them, we need to get to that level as well if we want to compete with them. And of course we can do that by adding new players to mix. But this is a slippery rope, think about how transfers like Di Maria or Lukaku went. To rely only on that factor is a big gamble and I know I wouldn't want to do that.)


I agree but the addition of fletcher and promotion of the two scottish guys implies we are stuck in this "traditional" style of people and football. We had a slight taste of an old van gaal and it was boring so people are turned off "philosophy" managers. It'd be much easier to swallow all this talk of progress if we were playing a modern style of football and keeping up with the tactical innovational happening over the past decade.

Agree. Feels almost as if people are traumatized and filed that experience under "Thats what you get if you hire top managers".
 
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That makes it worse then. Because it is even much easier group stage of UCL and they had the same amount of wins (3) as ours this season in UCL.

They got to the Champions League final and we went out at the first hurdle but because we had the same number of wins in the group stages they’re comparable campaigns?

The mental gymnastics on that is quite something.
 
It is just to make sure you don't say biased again when I complimented that Spurs squad. Even 1 year older is still big difference. John Terry was in PFA TOTY in 14/15, following season not the same player anymore, massive declined.

I didnt call you biased I said the argument of "proper squad" is biased. Which it is, is like the "team of winners" argument, no one is a winner until you're finaly one. The fact they reached the final proves they're good enough, but it the same squad wouldn't reached the final does that makes them not "proper"?

Its like the chicken and the egg dilema, which comes first? Because under that premise any manager could take a squad that has never win anything and be absolved of failures since they're not a "proper" squad.


The thread is about Ole.
Doesn't mean that my argument is directed towards him, again you made assumptions.
 
The position absolutely is the main thing. The points totals are completely irrelevant. Just so we’re clear, Man City of 17/18 are better than United 07/08?

Klopp got to the CL final and got battered by Madrid, if Liverpool had played Madrid in the round of 16 they’d have been knocked out.

Again the point is, nobody is comparing Ole and Klopp as managers. people are comparing the jobs they have done at their respective clubs, they’re not too dissimilar. I find It quite funny when people get upset when you compare the jobs they have both done.
The whole reason people talk about Top 4 is due to the CL. Klopp got Liverpool to the CL final while Ole got knocked out of the CL at the first hurdle. First hurdle vs final is quite dissimilar.
 
What?

You literally said points mean more than positions.

It’s not irrelevant it’s your whole argument.
You are obviously not interested in a discussion and on this forum just for trolling. You can easily understand from my post there are other achievements beside the league position and POINTS. Did Leicester win the treble? No so your case is irrelevant.
 
The whole reason people talk about Top 4 is due to the CL. Klopp got Liverpool to the CL final while Ole got knocked out of the CL at the first hurdle. First hurdle vs final is quite dissimilar.

So they can be compared then? You’re saying It all comes down to the fact that Klopp got to a final and lost and Ole didn’t get to a Final. 3rd is better than 4th and 2nd is better than 4th. The facts are they both didn’t win any trophies and Ole finished higher than Klopp did in the table. I hope you’ll say Ole has outperformed Klopp this season if we win a trophy seeing as winning a trophy is better than getting to the final and losing.

Again, for the final time, nobody is comparing Ole to Klopp as a manager, people are comparing Ole’s time at United to Klopp’s at Liverpool to say give the man a break and stop whining over every little thing.
 
So they can be compared then? You’re saying It all comes down to the fact that Klopp got to a final and lost and Ole didn’t get to a Final. 3rd is better than 4th and 2nd is better than 4th. The facts are they both didn’t win any trophies and Ole finished higher than Klopp did in the table. I hope you’ll say Ole has outperformed Klopp this season if we win a trophy seeing as winning a trophy is better than getting to the final and losing.

Again, for the final time, nobody is comparing Ole to Klopp as a manager, people are comparing Ole’s time at United to Klopp’s at Liverpool to say give the man a break and stop whining over every little thing.
Is Ole winning the CL next season? If you guarantee that for me, I will absolutely jump on the Ole wagon.
 
How the feck are you guys even comparing CL runs? It's a cup competition ffs where luck of the draw matter a lot.

In the year, Pool finished runners-up, they faced Hoffenheim in playoffs, the toughest team in their group was Sevilla, then faced Porto, City and Roma before facing RM in finals. No disrespect to what Klopp achieved, but barring City, there was none as difficult as PSG/RBL that we faced in group.
 
How the feck are you guys even comparing CL runs? It's a cup competition ffs where luck of the draw matter a lot.

In the year, Pool finished runners-up, they faced Hoffenheim in playoffs, the toughest team in their group was Sevilla, then faced Porto, City and Roma before facing RM in finals. No disrespect to what Klopp achieved, but barring City, there was none as difficult as PSG/RBL that we faced in group.
This season we ultimately crashed out due to losing to Istanbul Basaksehir, so this excuse doesn't hold up very well.
 
How the feck are you guys even comparing CL runs? It's a cup competition ffs where luck of the draw matter a lot.

In the year, Pool finished runners-up, they faced Hoffenheim in playoffs, the toughest team in their group was Sevilla, then faced Porto, City and Roma before facing RM in finals. No disrespect to what Klopp achieved, but barring City, there was none as difficult as PSG/RBL that we faced in group.
What? we lost against a Turkish side that lost all the other matches in the group.
 
You did cap the rest of the post. And still irrelevant. Leicester did not win the treble. Try harder.

No - you’ve just tied yourself in knots trying to argue something stupid.

Obviously there is more to the league than just points. Saying Mourinho did better than Ole as he had more points is silly. Otherwise, based on that Leicester had a better league side than our 99 treble winning side.

It’s a stupid argument. Just admit it and move on.
 
This season we ultimately crashed out due to losing to Istanbul Basaksehir, so this excuse doesn't hold up very well.
What? we lost against a Turkish side that lost all the other matches in the group.

But because of the difficulty of the group, we weren't able to correct that. As in, had it been say malmo instead of RBL in pot 3, we could have gotten the 3 points required to progress there
 
An absolutely incredible man manager. He's a credit to his club.

We need more than an incredible man manager though.

We need a manager who can decide games by making key substitutions, making players better, implementing an offensive style of football not this tumescent shit we get served every week.

Ole was lying when he said he was going to attack in his first pressers that's why I don't trust him, he's nothing more than a politician and the perfect foil for the Glazers and Woodward's regime, they are a match made in heaven !

Go ask Molde and Cardiff fans what they think of Ole :lol:
 
This thread needs locking. Some nonsense being posted.

No! The cancer will just spread even more all over the rest of the forum then!

It's already bad enough as it is. At least now there's an "attempt" to gather all the shit in one location, even if that's not really true :p I'd prefer it if this thread wasn't visible to non-members, though. It's embarrassing as a United supporter to know that one of the most respected United forums with a fecking newbie system to filter out the morons has such shitty takes blasted all over the front page.
 
No - you’ve just tied yourself in knots trying to argue something stupid.

Obviously there is more to the league than just points. Saying Mourinho did better than Ole as he had more points is silly. Otherwise, based on that Leicester had a better league side than our 99 treble winning side.

It’s a stupid argument. Just admit it and move on.
I dont know how old are you, but obviously you have a hard time understanding. In the post it was obvious I was talking about the achievement of Klopp reaching the CL final while Ole got knocked out of the champions league. You ignore that but as usual you tend to find silly arguments in a big discussion. When I was talking about the points vs position it was pretty obvious it is a better measurement tool as a progress in the league compared to each other specially within the same timeframe not 17 years apart comparing a team 1999 to a 2016. Because as the rest of the post ( that you chose to ignore because you know what you are) I was talking about the what Klopp achieved compared to Ole NOT only the points. Bringing Leicester compared to united is stupid , a team won the league while the other fought on the different competitions at the same time, how is that comparable?
 
This thread needs locking. Some nonsense being posted.
If you don't like what's being posted in this thread, don't open it. If this thread gets locked, lots of Ole threads will pop up.

We need more than an incredible man manager though.

We need a manager who can decide games by making key substitutions, making players better, implementing an offensive style of football not this tumescent shit we get served every week.

Ole was lying when he said he was going to attack in his first pressers that's why I don't trust him, he's nothing more than a politician and the perfect foil for the Glazers and Woodward's regime, they are a match made in heaven !

Go ask Molde and Cardiff fans what they think of Ole :lol:

I already know what Cardiff fans think of him. What do Molde fans think of him?
 
No! The cancer will just spread even more all over the rest of the forum then!

It's already bad enough as it is. At least now there's an "attempt" to gather all the shit in one location, even if that's not really true :p I'd prefer it if this thread wasn't visible to non-members, though. It's embarrassing as a United supporter to know that one of the most respected United forums with a fecking newbie system to filter out the morons has such shitty takes blasted all over the front page.

The cancer...
all the shit...
embarassing as a United supporter...
filter out the morons...
shitty takes...

How isn't that already flagged? Aren't you aware of the fact that this emotional take on things is at least half of the reason of the issues in the first place?

Its ridiculous. There are supposedly adults using ignore-lists to make sure they are not confronted with opinions and statements that make them not feel well. People are calling for bans and thread locks just to make sure, everybody is more in line with their own stances.

So many laughed about RAWK and their behaviour. Now this. The irony...
 
If you don't like what's being posted in this thread, don't open it. If this thread gets locked, lots of Ole threads will pop up.
Thats not how forums work. Looks like you haven't grown up since you first registered.
 
An absolutely incredible man manager. He's a credit to his club.
Actually that is not that far from the truth. He really has made the players very confident and we rarely are completely out of games. Problem is that is just one part of what should be required to be the manager of a club like United. You need the tactical aspect of it as well. Ole is average on that front. If he gets rid of our current coaching staff and brings in more tactically adept coaches, this might actually work long term.
 
Thats not how forums work. Looks like you haven't grown up since you first registered.
What on earth are you talking about? I never mentioned how forums work. If this thread gets locked, there won't be a place to talk about Ole and as such, posters will open threads about him.
 
The cancer...
all the shit...
embarassing as a United supporter...
filter out the morons...
shitty takes...

How isn't that already flagged? Aren't you aware of the fact that this emotional take on things is at least half of the reason of the issues in the first place?

Its ridiculous. There are supposedly adults using ignore-lists to make sure they are not confronted with opinions and statements that make them not feel well. People are calling for bans and thread locks just to make sure, everybody is more in line with their own stances.

So many laughed about RAWK and their behaviour. Now this. The irony...
It seems ignore-lists are essentially creating two different redcafe experiences. One is an Ole-in site in which there are no posts negative of Ole. Second has a lot of negativity about Ole and people with "99" or "Ole" in their username are fighting against it.
 
The cancer...
all the shit...
embarassing as a United supporter...
filter out the morons...
shitty takes...

How isn't that already flagged? Aren't you aware of the fact that this emotional take on things is at least half of the reason of the issues in the first place?

Its ridiculous. There are supposedly adults using ignore-lists to make sure they are not confronted with opinions and statements that make them not feel well. People are calling for bans and thread locks just to make sure, everybody is more in line with their own stances.

So many laughed about RAWK and their behaviour. Now this. The irony...
Thumbs up.
 
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