Ole Gunnar Solskjær | 2021/22 Discussion

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I'm happy that ole has improved the team, squad and style of play since he joined. Everything is on an upward trajectory for me albeit not a steep one. If he misses out on top 4 from here then he should go as it would be absolutely calamitous.

If he does stay which I'm sure he will as I expect top 4 then board need to back him during the summer with 3 to 4 very good additions that all start in team or at least challenge for places to see if we can really kick on. I expect next season oles third full season in charge to be the making or breaking of him. He will of had sufficient time by then
 
The Mirror are doing everything possible to write anti-Ole articles.
What's their agenda ??
 
Womp said:
Whilst I agree, you could use the exact same reasoning for Ole. If not for Bruno in January, he arguably wouldn't even be in a job anymore. Not to add, there has been a pattern to our form since Ole has come in with periods of good results, followed by periods of underwhelming results and a reliance on individual play - something that was also prevalent with Jose.

I think we'd be much better off giving Ole funds to rebuild because his recruitment and man management seems to be the best aspects of his managerial ability but to simply justify that season due to Dave's brilliance, but not justifying Ole's due to the brilliance of Rashford, Bruno etc. isn't fair imo.
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Not sure if I agree with that line of reasoning.

With Bruno, Ole has given him absolute freedom to be himself, and that needs to credited to Ole. You won't see a lot of managers giving this freedom to any player in their team, certainly can't imagine Mou or LVG doing that even to Messi. So, you can say that this is a part of his gameplan or tactics or whatever you want to call it.

However, with Dave, it's tough to imagine Mou relying on Dave's shot stopping ability. Basically, what I mean to say is, his tactic board wouldn't involve a line saying to the defenders and everyone to let opposition take shots from 12 yards out and we can rely on Dave to do his job. I'd give Mou/his coaching staff for getting the best out of him, but a side whose best player is a GK can't be called the 2nd best side in the league
 
anant said:
Not sure if I agree with that line of reasoning.

With Bruno, Ole has given him absolute freedom to be himself, and that needs to credited to Ole. You won't see a lot of managers giving this freedom to any player in their team, certainly can't imagine Mou or LVG doing that even to Messi. So, you can say that this is a part of his gameplan or tactics or whatever you want to call it.

However, with Dave, it's tough to imagine Mou relying on Dave's shot stopping ability. Basically, what I mean to say is, his tactic board wouldn't involve a line saying to the defenders and everyone to let opposition take shots from 12 yards out and we can rely on Dave to do his job. I'd give Mou/his coaching staff for getting the best out of him, but a side whose best player is a GK can't be called the 2nd best side in the league
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That’s all subjective though isn’t it. Our strikers where also our top scorers. You could argue you can’t be called the 2nd best side in the league if your striker doesn’t score goals.
 
Ali Dia said:
Sorry to interrupt but I’d have to disagree on that. We’ve seen loans and free transfers and players at the end of their best brought in as short term fixes all though out the years, it’s just in the post Fergie years it’s been more prevalent and big budget. It seems to be a club policy almost. Basti, Falcao, Ighalo, Cavani, Zlatan, Matics long new contract. Matas last deal... all under different managers. The squad age thing was just a cop out with Jose. the reason Jose was sacked was because he totally lost the dressing room and our performances spiralled.

I doubt speaking out about the owners not backing him would have ever got him sacked if we were doing well. It sounded like he wanted players sold that the board had no intention of letting leave and he was pissed we didn’t fully back him when he came 2nd. Just a disaster of a situation all round really after his new deal! Ole definitely won’t make the same mistakes Jose did with the in fighting. If he has to build slow he will. He’s not going to rock the boat too much. I think he’ll make the hard calls if he’s given the freedom and means to make the changes.
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There are two aspects to this point - 1. Quality of signings; 2. Value of the signings over long term.

In terms of quality he wasn't doing that well, maybe Zlatan and at a stretch Matic aside none of Mou's signings had become a success under Mou.

The 2nd bit is more important. The side that Mou inherited, which admittedly wasn't great, didn't need a player of age profile of Mkhi, Matic, Alexis and the likes. Our signings should have been in early 20s rather than peak years. Also, our signings should have been more focused on replacing the likes of Rooney (which we did by first going for Zlatan and then Lukaku), Valencia (we should have bought a backup RB sooner who would ultimately replace Valencia), Young, Schmidfield (which we partly did by going for Pog).

The two factors combined meant that the number of players who might have needed replacing was way too high. Sign Boateng and Perisic by selling Shaw and Martial would mean that 2 years later you're looking at replacing these two plus the others who got old plus the deadwood you've collected over the years.

As far as Ole extending Matic's and Mata's contract is concerned, it wasn't surprising. Ole had given enough hints that Sanchez's and Lukaku's time was up, which meant we'd have to sign atleast 1 attacker if not two to replace them. We also knew Valencia is leaving and Ole didn't have faith in Dalot which meant that we were going to sign a RB, Smalling wasn't rated by Ole as well. Mata's contract extension was more to ensure that they aren't left with lack of depth than anything else. Ditto for Matic - I really think that had COVID not happened, Matic might have been given a 1 year extension at most
 
Mainoldo said:
That’s all subjective though isn’t it. Our strikers where also our top scorers. You could argue you can’t be called the 2nd best side in the league if your striker doesn’t score goals.
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What?! A manager's job is to help team maximize the number of chances they get and minimize the number of chances opposition gets. Under Mou, we hadn't minimized the chances opposition was getting. Under Ole, giving Bruno complete freedom has meant that we are trying to maximize the goalscoring chances we're getting.
 
anant said:
What?! A manager's job is to help team maximize the number of chances they get and minimize the number of chances opposition gets. Under Mou, we hadn't minimized the chances opposition was getting. Under Ole, giving Bruno complete freedom has meant that we are trying to maximize the goalscoring chances we're getting.
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What are you trying to discuss? We were defensively sound under Mourinho. We literally played with 6 at the back at times.

Giving Bruno a free role means in big games if you mark him out you literally cut off out attacking supply. Which is why what he’s ‘trying’ to do has us with zero goals from open play in the big games in the league.
 
Mainoldo said:
What are you trying to discuss? We were defensively sound under Mourinho. We literally played with 6 at the back at times.

Giving Bruno a free role means in big games if you mark him out you literally cut off out attacking supply. Which is why what he’s ‘trying’ to do has us with zero goals from open play in the big games in the league.
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But we weren't good under Mou defensively. Despite including the 1st three games of the season, we're conceding lesser number of shots this season than we did in 17/18 (11.1 vs 11.5). Our xGA/90 is roughly the same if we include the first 3 games, and significantly better if we exclude those 3.
And Mou was brought in because someone claimed that Ole might not be given funds in summer like we did to Mou, which are two different cases.

As far as your last point is concerned, I'd expect teams to have figured that out so far. Yet he's scored and assisted vs Leicester this season, scored(3) and assisted vs Everton, scored vs Pool and assisted vs Leipzig and I'm just talking about this season, and not including penalties. There are two possibilities: 1. Either cutting off Bruno is not a solution as that would leave other attackers with too much space or 2. Managers like Rodgers, Nagelsmann, Ancelloti, Klopp are stupid for not having seen this piss obvious thing that you have. Take your pick
 
anant said:
But we weren't good under Mou defensively. Despite including the 1st three games of the season, we're conceding lesser number of shots this season than we did in 17/18 (11.1 vs 11.5). Our xGA/90 is roughly the same if we include the first 3 games, and significantly better if we exclude those 3.
And Mou was brought in because someone claimed that Ole might not be given funds in summer like we did to Mou, which are two different cases.

As far as your last point is concerned, I'd expect teams to have figured that out so far. Yet he's scored and assisted vs Leicester this season, scored(3) and assisted vs Everton, scored vs Pool and assisted vs Leipzig and I'm just talking about this season, and not including penalties. There are two possibilities: 1. Either cutting off Bruno is not a solution as that would leave other attackers with too much space or 2. Managers like Rodgers, Nagelsmann, Ancelloti, Klopp are stupid for not having seen this piss obvious thing that you have. Take your pick
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We was never a bad defensive unit under Jose and we have turned into a defensive unit under Ole ever since Spurs exposed our high line. I’m not surprised if those stats are actually logical especially removing the first couple of games. But at the same time the point you are trying to make I just don’t understand.

Are you saying Ole has improved our defence as a unit compared to prime Jose?
 
Mainoldo said:
We was never a bad defensive unit under Jose and we have turned into a defensive unit under Ole ever since Spurs exposed our high line. I’m not surprised if those stats are actually logical especially removing the first couple of games. But at the same time the point you are trying to make I just don’t understand.

Are you saying Ole has improved our defence as a unit compared to prime Jose?
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My point is that we were an average defensive side under Mou, but were being saved by Dave
 
Foxbatt said:
To me it's a strange situation with Ole. I want him to succeed. He is a legend and it's seems an all-round nice guy.
Then I get angry with him because I see that he is not doing everything to succeed. ( In my opinion). One of the biggest issues I have him is his coaching staff. No Manager in the PL has time to coach the players now. They are overall in charge and get the coaching staff to do the training.
If Ole gets proven and experienced coaches he can become successful.
I had no problems with his team selection yesterday apart from bringing on Rashford but I guess he maybe trying to see if Rashford can play deeper and be a creative player in the middle?
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Yeah there is so much frustration that Ole doesn't seem willing at all to add some coaching experience to his Utd old boys club because some new ideas in these big six games are much needed
 
anant said:
But we weren't good under Mou defensively. Despite including the 1st three games of the season, we're conceding lesser number of shots this season than we did in 17/18 (11.1 vs 11.5). Our xGA/90 is roughly the same if we include the first 3 games, and significantly better if we exclude those 3.
And Mou was brought in because someone claimed that Ole might not be given funds in summer like we did to Mou, which are two different cases.

As far as your last point is concerned, I'd expect teams to have figured that out so far. Yet he's scored and assisted vs Leicester this season, scored(3) and assisted vs Everton, scored vs Pool and assisted vs Leipzig and I'm just talking about this season, and not including penalties. There are two possibilities: 1. Either cutting off Bruno is not a solution as that would leave other attackers with too much space or 2. Managers like Rodgers, Nagelsmann, Ancelloti, Klopp are stupid for not having seen this piss obvious thing that you have. Take your pick
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This post proves stats can be manipulated to suit any agenda. So conceding fewer shots is better than conceding fewer goals, gotcha.
 
croadyman said:
Yeah there is so much frustration that Ole doesn't seem willing at all to add some coaching experience to his Utd old boys club because some new ideas in these big six games are much needed
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Defending Ole is acceptable to me. I have said he can be a very good manager with better coaching staff. But some people here make him to be infallible.
SAFs best years were with coaches outside of the United Old Boys club. I don't mind keeping Phelan as the assistant but saf had Rene Meulensteen as the head coach. Carlos Quiroz as his assistant and Steve McLaren, Archie Knox. They were all outside of United. Only Kiddo played for United. What Ole did was get a bunch of newbies who never had any coaching experience at any top level and knows nothing outside of the United set up as his coaching staff.
New ideas are not going to come from old set up.
 
b82REZ said:
This post proves stats can be manipulated to suit any agenda. So conceding fewer shots is better than conceding fewer goals, gotcha.
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Put a prime DDG in God mode in this team like the one that Jose had and guess what, we concede less. It's not rocket science.
 
rotherham_red said:
Put a prime DDG in God mode in this team like the one that Jose had and guess what, we concede less. It's not rocket science.
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We concede the same type of goals and DDG has had a good season. Prime DDG would still have conceded those set piece goals and prime DDG still conceded goals.
 
b82REZ said:
This post proves stats can be manipulated to suit any agenda. So conceding fewer shots is better than conceding fewer goals, gotcha.
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Jesus Christ! It's exactly why I brought in xGA as well. 2017/18 was arguably the best season a GK has ever had in terms of points won for the team. Without Dave, I'm more than certain, we would have conceded 40+ goals instead of 28. This season, Dave has been indifferent. He's saved some shots that only he can save, but he's also made errors that have resulted in us conceding quite a few goals.
 
Mainoldo said:
We was never a bad defensive unit under Jose and we have turned into a defensive unit under Ole ever since Spurs exposed our high line. I’m not surprised if those stats are actually logical especially removing the first couple of games. But at the same time the point you are trying to make I just don’t understand.

Are you saying Ole has improved our defence as a unit compared to prime Jose?
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Come on mate we didn't have prime Jose.

We were fifth for xg against when we came second. There is a strong argument that De Gea's heroics had a lot to do with the low number of goals conceded that season.
 
Withnail said:
Come on mate we didn't have prime Jose.

We were fifth for xg against when we came second. There is a strong argument that De Gea's heroics had a lot to do with the low number of goals conceded that season.
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There’s a strong argument if it wasn’t for Bruno we’d be next to Jose right now. So all in all it is what it is.
 
Mainoldo said:
There’s a strong argument if it wasn’t for Bruno we’d be next to Jose right now. So all in all it is what it is.
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Because Dave is a GK and Bruno isn't. How is it so hard to understand?

In Bruno's case, his numbers are coming due to Ole having given him a free role - a role that not many managers would give to any player of theirs. Sure, you can call it individual brilliance or whatever the feck you want to discredit Ole but Bruno's play style is a part of tactics. In Dav's case, I'm quite certain that Mou wouldn't have instructed out outfield players to be shit at defending as we can rely on Dave's shot stopping abilities. Hel, had we played a high line and Dave was doing a Neuer type sweeper job, I'd have credited Mou, but it doesn't take a lot of analysis of our games that season to realize that Dave was the difference between another EL place finish and 2nd place
 
anant said:
Because Dave is a GK and Bruno isn't. How is it so hard to understand?

In Bruno's case, his numbers are coming due to Ole having given him a free role - a role that not many managers would give to any player of theirs. Sure, you can call it individual brilliance or whatever the feck you want to discredit Ole but Bruno's play style is a part of tactics. In Dav's case, I'm quite certain that Mou wouldn't have instructed out outfield players to be shit at defending as we can rely on Dave's shot stopping abilities. Hel, had we played a high line and Dave was doing a Neuer type sweeper job, I'd have credited Mou, but it doesn't take a lot of analysis of our games that season to realize that Dave was the difference between another EL place finish and 2nd place
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Did he make Dave play out from the back?
 
So we got 3rd last season and now in 2nd place only because of Ole?
But under Jose we got 2nd place and won two Cups in spite of Jose and only due to DeGea?
 
Foxbatt said:
So we got 3rd last season and now in 2nd place only because of Ole?
But under Jose we got 2nd place and won two Cups in spite of Jose and only due to DeGea?
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Basically.

Ole allows Bruno to run riot. Tactical genius. Jose made Dave have to a save more shorts, but thank god Dave was an actual God at the time.

It’s all relevant by the way.
 
Robbie Boy said:
These agenda driven arguments are absolutely nuts :lol:
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I know! Imagine how hostile this place will be if we lose to Chelsea which is very possible under any manager. Our Squad is still paper thin/non existent in areas. Enough quality and depth to challenge should always be a given at one of the worlds richest clubs but we seem to roll by year after year with the same deficiencies and the fans end up getting divided about whether to back the manager or not when it’s the owners they should be angry at first and foremost
 
anant said:
There are two aspects to this point - 1. Quality of signings; 2. Value of the signings over long term.

In terms of quality he wasn't doing that well, maybe Zlatan and at a stretch Matic aside none of Mou's signings had become a success under Mou.

The 2nd bit is more important. The side that Mou inherited, which admittedly wasn't great, didn't need a player of age profile of Mkhi, Matic, Alexis and the likes. Our signings should have been in early 20s rather than peak years. Also, our signings should have been more focused on replacing the likes of Rooney (which we did by first going for Zlatan and then Lukaku), Valencia (we should have bought a backup RB sooner who would ultimately replace Valencia), Young, Schmidfield (which we partly did by going for Pog).

The two factors combined meant that the number of players who might have needed replacing was way too high. Sign Boateng and Perisic by selling Shaw and Martial would mean that 2 years later you're looking at replacing these two plus the others who got old plus the deadwood you've collected over the years.

As far as Ole extending Matic's and Mata's contract is concerned, it wasn't surprising. Ole had given enough hints that Sanchez's and Lukaku's time was up, which meant we'd have to sign atleast 1 attacker if not two to replace them. We also knew Valencia is leaving and Ole didn't have faith in Dalot which meant that we were going to sign a RB, Smalling wasn't rated by Ole as well. Mata's contract extension was more to ensure that they aren't left with lack of depth than anything else. Ditto for Matic - I really think that had COVID not happened, Matic might have been given a 1 year extension at most
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Matic is apparently also a really strong influence in the dressing room in terms of focus and discipline. Makes sure everyone comes in on time for meetings, works closely with Maguire on team policies, no using phones at the gym, that sort of thing. Even fined himself for being 2 seconds late for a meeting.
 
Raveneye said:
Matic is apparently also a really strong influence in the dressing room in terms of focus and discipline. Makes sure everyone comes in on time for meetings, works closely with Maguire on team policies, no using phones at the gym, that sort of thing. Even fined himself for being 2 seconds late for a meeting.
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Really? That is interesting.
 
Raveneye said:
Matic is apparently also a really strong influence in the dressing room in terms of focus and discipline. Makes sure everyone comes in on time for meetings, works closely with Maguire on team policies, no using phones at the gym, that sort of thing. Even fined himself for being 2 seconds late for a meeting.
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Sign him up for another 3 years!
 
Ali Dia said:
I know! Imagine how hostile this place will be if we lose to Chelsea which is very possible under any manager. Our Squad is still paper thin/non existent in areas. Enough quality and depth to challenge should always be a given at one of the worlds richest clubs but we seem to roll by year after year with the same deficiencies and the fans end up getting divided about whether to back the manager or not when it’s the owners they should be angry at first and foremost
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It will be but it shouldn't be. Chelsea are a very strong team and they have players as good as ours and their manager has a lot of experience and managed top clubs and is not a newbie to top level management unlike Lampard. With the squad they have they shouldn't be where they are now. They are going to fight for second place for sure.
 
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