Ole Gunnar Solskjær | 2021/22 Discussion

[Robbie Boy]

Its interesting how human beings are so readily programmed to criticise than to praise though isn't it? There is a hypothetical thread about whether Pep would have won the title with us that has had almost as many posts in the same amount of time as a post match thread after a 4-0 away win in Europe. I honestly have never understood why more people can't just pop in with sentence or two of praise about an actual game of football. Isn't this all ultimately supposed to be about the actual football?

But I think it's a common theme both inside and outside of the football world. Look at the Arteta thread; it was bumped right on full time last night slagging him off after a draw. Same with Klopp; his thread has been ridiculously active lately due to Liverpool struggling. People love drama for whatever reason and are drawn to it. As I said, good news stories are usually buried at the end of a news feed as there's little discussion around them. Compare that to a good ouel controversial story which will remain top of any news feed and garner the most discussion. We all know the ones who don't rate Ole but it would hardly be conducive to good discussion if they came in here being negative after a good win.

The Pep thread you mention is active because there's actually contrasting opinions in it which brings about debate. What contrasting opinions are there from last night? We won, anyone who has posted has praised him so there's zero debate to be had. If we draw or lose, you will have some saying we played well and were unlucky while others will feel we were piss poor and this brings the debate and the drama.

I think it's a much bigger discussion/topic regarding human nature and what draws us to debates. Yeah sure, maybe more could come in and praise him but it seems like moaning for the sake of moaning to point out people not praising him. In the Fergie era, I can't imagine there were massive threads on him every season praising him after every win.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

Yeah, I don't disagree. I just find it a little hard to understand why a good win is not worthy of debate. Its not even that replies are way down after a win, its actual views of the thread. People aren't even bothering to visit. Its the first thing I do after the final whistle. I guess I'm the weird one. I did have my suspicions.

But what is there to debate about the win? Debate comes from disagreements?

What is there to disagree with last night? Should I say Ole did something shit to get the debate going? Didn't shout enough? Didn't bring on Diallo after 0-2?

It seems to me those on the permanent defensive regarding Ole, expect this thread should be buzzing after every good win, but the truth it, disagreement "buzzes" threads, not agreements.

Rob touched on it above, but a quiet manager thread is generally a good thing, a compliment to the management if you like.

 

[Skåre Willoch]

But what is there to debate about the win? Debate comes from disagreements?

What is there to disagree with last night? Should I say Ole did something shit to get the debate going? Didn't shout enough? Didn't bring on Diallo after 0-2?

It seems to me those on the permanent defensive regarding Ole, expect this thread should be buzzing after every good win, but the truth it, disagreement "buzzes" threads, not agreements.

Rob touched on it above, but a quiet manager thread is generally a good thing, a compliment to the management if you like.

Well, you could always discuss why we played good yesterday, or what was different from games we haven't played well?
How the gameplan worked out?
How come we managed to win a game without having to rely on "individual brilliance"?
How the clueless tacticians in our team seemingly had prepared very well, and had some decent tactics planned for once?
How we got our first win in 10 games against spanish opposition?
Or just give credit where it's due?

 

[Mainoldo]

Well, you could always discuss why we played good yesterday, or what was different from games we haven't played well?
How the gameplan worked out?
How come we managed to win a game without having to rely on "individual brilliance"?
How the clueless tacticians in our team seemingly had prepared very well, and had some decent tactics planned for once?
How we got our first win in 10 games against spanish opposition?
Or just give credit where it's due?

You do it and I’ll have something to pick up on from it

Build some pages after a win!

 

[Skåre Willoch]

You do it and I’ll have something to pick up on from it

Build some pages after a win!

I've already shared some views on the game. Trying to build some pages

Great game by Ole and the coaching team. We got to rest some players, and got some others going as well. Good rotation during the game as well, even though Mata and Diallo might have come on a bit earlier.

With this result we can field a backup XI for the return leg at home to be ready for the Chelsea game a few days after. Essential.

 

[Mainoldo]

I've already shared some views on the game. Trying to build some pages

I agree with your observation! Felt exactly how you did.

Yeah I don’t think this discussion is going to work

See you again when we drop points unimpressively.

 

[Skåre Willoch]

I agree with your observation! Felt exactly how you did.

Yeah I don’t think this discussion is going to work

I'll try to get it going then, since you've all of a sudden become socially awkward and shy

What do you think was a key factor to our win and good performance?

Do you think we made any tactical changes after our game against WBA?

Do you think credit should be given to the coaching team for yesterdays performance? If yes, why? If no, why?

See you again when we drop points unimpressively.

Of that I have no doubt.

 

[Mainoldo]

I'll try to get it going then, since you've all of a sudden become socially awkward and shy

What do you think was a key factor to our win and good performance?

Do you think we made any tactical changes after our game against WBA?

Do you think credit should be given to the coaching team for yesterdays performance? If yes, why? If no, why?



Of that I have no doubt.

I think Sociedad played a very high line which as you know is suicidal against our pace on the attack. As you can see with WBA they actually probably took time out to research on how to play us.

The thing is we are actually a very good team and unless you are a City or Liverpool as an example. You are not going to beat us in a fist fight. Leeds found that out too.

 

[tomaldinho1]

Why? Because "talking points", debating if Pep would succeed at United or whether or not Bailly should have rushed in on Isak create debates, and therefore pages.

Debates aren't created in manager threads after enjoyable wins agains average sides. Who is really gonna to debate the standard boring as feck "Good team selection, nice win, happy Diallo got minutes"?

Yet ivaldo's in a thread pretending Bailly got "saved by Maguire" and "beaten all ends up", gifs were posted, bollocks was spouted by all, I'm pretty sure one fella threw in some algebra, Lindelöf then joined the mix, and no-one called him Victoria which was a huge relief for everybody involved. Try creating a similar debate about last night and the management team and I'm all in, gif of Phelan anyone?

That was me with the algebra!

Completely agree though - this thread is going to come alive when anything unexpected happens, issue this season is we've been so bad versus the top 6 or so. I'm sure after the PSG win, or RBL win or even the earlier win versus Everton there were a lot of happy posters but there's no real discussion in a mangers performance thread. Basically if he could have done subs earlier and then maybe some funny moments i.e. LVG's dive or Jose cupping his ear type stuff.

Basically everyone used to go down the pub to chat shit with their mates, now we can't do that we're just chatting shit on the caf!

 

[romufc]

As you can see with WBA they actually probably took time out to research on how to play us.

Not really, that is how a big Sam team plays.

 

[Skåre Willoch]

I think Sociedad played a very high line which as you know is suicidal against our pace on the attack. As you can see with WBA they actually probably took time out to research on how to play us.

The thing is we are actually a very good team and unless you are a City or Liverpool as an example. You are not going to beat us in a fist fight. Leeds found that out too.

I agree, it was suicidal indeed. I guess they tried to exploit our weak defense, as they’ve analyzed us and realized we make blunders and fall apart defensively every now and then.

And I guess they read the caf as well, and simply believed the people saying Rashford and James are useless and can’t score.

We’re also better than Liverpool, so we can indeed use them as an example. They’re 6 points behind in the league and we knocked them out of the FA cup not too long ago

 

[rotherham_red]

But what is there to debate about the win? Debate comes from disagreements?

What is there to disagree with last night? Should I say Ole did something shit to get the debate going? Didn't shout enough? Didn't bring on Diallo after 0-2?

It seems to me those on the permanent defensive regarding Ole, expect this thread should be buzzing after every good win, but the truth it, disagreement "buzzes" threads, not agreements.

Rob touched on it above, but a quiet manager thread is generally a good thing, a compliment to the management if you like.

The clue is in the title of the sub-forum this thread is located in: performance. And the second clue is in the title of this thread: discussion. Hence, I'm expecting a similar level of discussion from people whether it's good or bad. Otherwise, it just comes across as being very disingenuous when the impression an observer gets is that one side of the debate is here rain or shine, and the other just retreats when things are going well and only seem to come out to have a pity party when they go south.

By the logic that you framed in your post, this forum should have been dead in 2008 and 1999 (I was here in 2008, and guess what, it wasn't). Equally, why is it that the players' corresponding performance threads are active irrespective of a loss or win? The manager had a good performance yesterday and got a very good result, but outside of a few posts (the vast majority of which weren't from his biggest detractors, might I add) this thread was eerily quiet. I thought it was an interesting observation.

 

[Zlatan 7]

I agree with your observation! Felt exactly how you did.

Yeah I don’t think this discussion is going to work

See you again when we drop points unimpressively.

Bit more discussion for you.

Do you think we look coached last night or had specific tactics? That we just let the players run around doing what they want and hope Bruno picked the ball up at some point and used some individual brilliance to get us a goal? Or somewhere in between?

 

[Mainoldo]

I agree, it was suicidal indeed. I guess they tried to exploit our weak defense, as they’ve analyzed us and realized we make blunders and fall apart defensively every now and then.

And I guess they read the caf as well, and simply believed the people saying Rashford and James are useless and can’t score.

We’re also better than Liverpool, so we can indeed use them as an example. They’re 6 points behind in the league and we knocked them out of the FA cup not too long ago

Haha. You know what I meant by Liverpool. We are never going toe to toe with them as we don’t believe we can beat them for 3 points that way especially if they have a fit 11. You abs me probably think otherwise.

 

[Mainoldo]

Bit more discussion for you.

Do you think we look coached last night or had specific tactics? That we just let the players run around doing what they want and hope Bruno picked the ball up at some point and used some individual brilliance to get us a goal? Or somewhere in between?

We played like we always play. Counter attacked. Which is why when a team sits back and we have to break them down we don’t have a clue what to do except for rely on a moment of brilliance.

I mean did we score a goal last night that wasn’t on the break away?

 

[lex talionis]

Some of the criticism of Ole should be redirected to players who underperform, regardless of tactics employed by us or our opponent.

Yes, we have plenty of player discussion threads, but what I’m getting at are defeats to clubs like Sheffield and West Brom (let’s be honest, it was two points dropped). Take six points instead of one from those two matches and the world looks completely different. It shouldn’t have required a MasterClass by Ole to have accomplished that.

 

[Robbie Boy]

I actually thought last night was very pleasing. He rotated the squad and we played pretty brilliant against a Sociedad side who are no mugs, and made them look a pretty poor side. We totally dominated and could have won it 6 nil. If we play like that on Sunday, we'll smash Newcastle.

 

[b82REZ]

I actually thought last night was very pleasing. He rotated the squad and we played pretty brilliant against a Sociedad side who are no mugs, and made them look a pretty poor side. We totally dominated and could have won it 6 nil. If we play like that on Sunday, we'll smash Newcastle.

It isn't an issue of us playing well, it's whether the opposition allows us to play to our strengths. Sociedad played very high which suits our attackers.

If Newcastle stick 10 men behind the ball I expect we'll flatter to deceive again.

 

[Anustart89]

Its interesting how human beings are so readily programmed to criticise than to praise though isn't it? There is a hypothetical thread about whether Pep would have won the title with us that has had almost as many posts in the same amount of time as a post match thread after a 4-0 away win in Europe. I honestly have never understood why more people can't just pop in with sentence or two of praise about an actual game of football. Isn't this all ultimately supposed to be about the actual football?

Goes for all things, not just football though. If the government does something good in terms of their Covid strategy you won't see as many posts as if they decide not to lock down airports or something. Surely you are more likely to post something critical than positive, aren't you? If Trump signs a good executive order, it won't generate as many reactions as him locking up children in cages, is it?

 

[Robbie Boy]

It isn't an issue of us playing well, it's whether the opposition allows us to play to our strengths. Sociedad played very high which suits our attackers.

If Newcastle stick 10 men behind the ball I expect we'll flatter to deceive again.

I don't disagree at all mate. I am positive right now but what you laid out could just as conceivably happen. We have shown how great we can be but struggled with consistency.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

By the logic that you framed in your post, this forum should have been dead in 2008 and 1999 (I was here in 2008, and guess what, it wasn't).

feck off Fergie’s thread was active everytime he won a game.

Utter utter bollocks.

I just checked back all threads with his name in the title from 2002-2010, no fecking surprise the majority were made in bad times or after bad results, at the end of great seasons or a general theead made to celebrate the brilliant man or speculate on his retirement.
As if everyone camped in Fergie’s thread every bloody week praising him after every win, total horseshit.

Aside from the gumbly feck threads started when SAF apparently did something wrong to cost us in a posters opinion, you may get a very rare thread on the manager after a massive win, such as when we beat Barca in 2008, a thread was made titled “All hail the tactical genius that is called Sir Alex Ferguson”, it made 2 pages.

There’s 7 pages here talking about the performance, enjoy: https://www.redcafe.net/threads/post-match-vs-real-sociedad.460978/

 

[M15 Red.]

We're very frustrating still under Ole. If we were still dropping points by virtue of tactics or a system that's progressive then I would be more sympathetic. But we're not. We are still dropping points because we have a stagnant way of playing that mostly relies on individual brilliance. Is that enough to carry us to a league title. I doubt it. We score some great goals as a team at times but against the very best, we are still a long way short.

 

[UnofficialDevil]

I actually thought last night was very pleasing. He rotated the squad and we played pretty brilliant against a Sociedad side who are no mugs, and made them look a pretty poor side. We totally dominated and could have won it 6 nil. If we play like that on Sunday, we'll smash Newcastle.

We didn't dominate we counter attacked. Sociedad played a high defensive line, and we took advantage with counter attacks and balls over their defence which they couldnt handle just like the Leeds game, they left lots of open space for us, no way Newcastle will play like that against us.

 

[Robbie Boy]

We didn't dominate we counter attacked. Sociedad played a high defensive line, and we took advantage with counter attacks and balls over their defence which they couldnt handle just like the Leeds game, they left lots of open space for us, no way Newcastle will play like that against us.

To be honest, dominate was the wrong word. I haven't seen the stats, but I'm guessing Sociedad had the lion's share of the possession. The thing is, we looked far better than them both in and out of possession and I'm guessing we had far more shots. We genuinely could have won that 6 or 7 nil and Ole got it spot on. I think he has flaws for sure, but Ole is no mug and he can genuinely get us playing very well. What he lacks is consistency and ideas agsinst ultra defensive sides.

 

[horsechoker]

For what it's worth, we're 12 points better of at this point than we were last season.

Bear in mind that we had a pretty bad start to the season.

I think we could get past 80 points (we had 66 last season)

Won't be enough for the title but hopefully it's progress than can be built on.

 

[Withnail]

To be honest, dominate was the wrong word. I haven't seen the stats, but I'm guessing Sociedad had the lion's share of the possession. The thing is, we looked far better than them both in and out of possession and I'm guessing we had far more shots. We genuinely could have won that 6 or 7 nil and Ole got it spot on. I think he has flaws for sure, but Ole is no mug and he can genuinely get us playing very well. What he lacks is consistency and ideas agsinst ultra defensive sides.

It was 60/40 but they did very little with it and yes we had the most shots (13 vs 8) and most shots on target (10 vs 2)

It depends on your definition of domination. It was a dominant performance in that they were never in the game and United had loads of clear cut chances, scored four and as you say could have had a lot more. Granted I started watching after the first three eventful minutes but Real Sociedad never looked like getting into the game.

Just because the opposition had 60% possession doesn't mean we weren't the much better team. As far as I'm concerned you don't need to have the highest possession stat to dominate but I understand others disagree.

 

[Robbie Boy]

It was 60/40 but they did very little with it and yes we had the most shots (13 vs 8) and most shots on target (10 vs 2)

It depends on your definition of domination. It was a dominant performance in that they were never in the game and United had loads of clear cut chances, scored four and as you say could have had a lot more. Granted I started watching after the first three eventful minutes but Real Sociedad never looked like getting into the game.

Just because the opposition had 60% possession doesn't mean we weren't the much better team. As far as I'm concerned you don't need to have the highest possession stat to dominate but I understand others disagree.

You worded it much better than me, but that's more what I meant by 'dominated' although I can see how the terminology could be misconstrued.

 

[Withnail]

For what it's worth, we're 12 points better of at this point than we were last season.

Bear in mind that we had a pretty bad start to the season.

I think we could get past 80 points (we had 66 last season)

Won't be enough for the title but hopefully it's progress than can be built on.

It's definitely progress but I don't see us reaching 80.

And to get past 80 would mean getting at least 35pts from the remaining 14 games.

That's 2.5pts per game and would require a serious step up in performance. If our strikers actually start playing well it could be possible but I don't think it's realistic.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

I think we could get past 80 points (we had 66 last season)

You surely haven’t thought that through? We’re on track for 72.

 

[Mainoldo]

You surely haven’t thought that through? We’re on track for 72.

So we’ll probably end up with 66 again. You can see it. But we’ll make top 4 so it will be progress.

 

[roonster09]

We didn't dominate we counter attacked. Sociedad played a high defensive line, and we took advantage with counter attacks and balls over their defence which they couldnt handle just like the Leeds game, they left lots of open space for us, no way Newcastle will play like that against us.

We dominated. Domination doesn't mean having just better possession. We created good number of chances, scored 4 goals and looked comfortable all game except first 2 mins.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

So we’ll probably end up with 66 again. You can see it. But we’ll make top 4 so it will be progress.

A pessimist would say that, I’d imagine even the most optimistic would hope for 78 max.
Best to see where we are after 38 games, I personally have no idea, wouldn’t wanna place a bet on any outcome.

 

[Water Melon]

Are we really sure United will finish in top 4?

 

[Withnail]

Are we really sure United will finish in top 4?

Yes. We should be finishing in the low to mid 70s points-wise.

So we’ll probably end up with 66 again. You can see it. But we’ll make top 4 so it will be progress.

Literally no one will be saying that. You'll have to try harder mate. That was disappointing. You probably haven't had your coffee yet

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

Are we really sure United will finish in top 4?

No. Our position is precarious now with Chelsea away next up and just 4 points ahead of them.

We play Chelsea, City, Leciester & Spurs away plus City & Leicester at home in the remaining 14 games; so if we quickly sort out our issues in the big games we’ll be fine, otherwise that could seriously bite us in the arse.

 

[Greck]

Are we really sure United will finish in top 4?

Would honestly trade top 4 to win a trophy. The board aren't aiming top 4 to win the CL or attract marquee targets, they seem to do so for the business side of the club and their dividends

 

[OrcaFat]

Can’t take anyone serious that thinks Bruno is a level above Paul Pogba

This fanbase.

More effective = better.

Touch, skill, vision, physique? Not worth as much as goals and assists if winning is the aim. Which it is.

 

[OrcaFat]

No. Our position is precarious now with Chelsea away next up and just 4 points ahead of them.

We play Chelsea, City, Leciester & Spurs away plus City & Leicester at home in the remaining 14 games; so if we quickly sort out our issues in the big games we’ll be fine, otherwise that could seriously bite us in the arse.

Yes that is a pretty challenging set of fixtures. Leicester is the cup. But 5 tough league games. Plus Liv at home.

 

[Water Melon]

Yes. We should be finishing in the low to mid 70s points-wise.



Literally no one will be saying that. You'll have to try harder mate. That was disappointing. You probably haven't had your coffee yet

I hope you are right regarding top4. However, I do see us dropping points against Chelsea and losing to City.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

Yes that is a pretty challenging set of fixtures. Leicester is the cup. But 5 tough league games. Plus Liv at home.

Yeah sorry, we play Chelsea, City & Spurs away plus Leicester & Liverpool at home in the remaining 14 PL games.

Our record so far in the big "6" games is so poor I'm imagining a scenario where we pick up just 1 point from the away games and 4 points from the home games. That'd give us 51 points with 27 points still to play for.

70 points is therefore my prediction, unless we sort out this rotton form against the better sides. We're capable of it, despite losing to PSG at home, the play and ability to beat them was there, but I feel our management have too often not really giving the side the opportunity to go and take it to the bigger sides this season. That has to change, and can change.

Edit:
Nar, I did my PL calculator now https://www.leaguetablecalculator.com and I clearly have it as City and then in no particular order as all on pretty much equal points; Chelsea, United & Liverpool.
Maybe my bias against Leicester is rather strong (as their squad is already overachieving in my opinion and it'll catch up like last season) but even then, I have the 2-4 positions all on 76-77 points and I don't see Leicester in those calculations getting more than 71 points. This obviously would also require us to stop dropping points against shitty teams, as I put all of those in as 3 points in the calculator. Wolves away I gave us 1 point which gave us a PL finish of 77. Would be delighted with that in reality.