Ole Gunnar Solskjær | 2021/22 Discussion

[VP89]

But it’s still Ole’s second full season, he has another 2 to go and money to spend before you can make that same comparison with klopp. Unless you’re comparing with klopps first two seasons where he was being called a bluffer for losing so many finals

Even then I'm confused as to what his expectation is. To be on the same level of consistency as City? Bit of an ask for any manager in their 2nd full season, before we even talk about our current one.

 

[Womp]

Anyways, as fun as this has been, everyone quoting me seems to be making the same points, with me responding with the same rebuttals now. It's getting boring and honestly getting nowhere. Also, I think we all know regardless of what points either side makes, given the tribal nature of this topic in particular, no-one is going to be in any rush to change their pov, so I'm done responding to these for now.

I do sincerely hope that you all can come back to quote all these posts of mine one day when we win the league or CL with Ole.

Enjoy your weekend guys!

 

[GoldTrafford99]

Worth pointing out as well that the first 3 years under Klopp Liverpool finished 8th(Lower than under Rodgers management), 4th and 4th again. The Ole out people would have been demanding Klopp be sacked if they were Pool fans.

Klopp is great example against their argument.

It's not only that.

The club these guys have chosen to support - Manchester United - have only ever had two periods of success in their entire 140-year history, albeit they turned into long periods of success.

But they were long periods of success built off of a platform of giving managers time.

It took SIX YEARS for Alex Ferguson to win a league title...

It took SIX YEARS for Matt Busby to win a league title....

These guys like @Womp and @Mainoldo who want our current manager sacked and an Allegri or a Pochettino appointed instead have clearly chosen the wrong club to support. They don't even understand why the club they have chosen to support has ever been successful in the past... they just don't get it.. It's embarrassing for them... mortifying, to be honest.


There simply is NO DOUBT about this at all...

Womp and Mainoldo would have wanted Ferguson sacked in 1989 (because he was doing a LOT worse than Ole is doing now).

And Womp and Mainoldo would have wanted Busby sacked in 1949 (because he was doing a LOT worse than Ole is doing now).

These muppets clearly don't see a bigger picture... they're only interested in the last result. It's simply called narrow-mindedness. I don't know why you guys are giving them the time to respond to them. They are not Manchester United supporters... they claim they support Manchester United and they might have a few jerseys in their wardrobes... but they are not Manchester United SUPPORTERS.. Because in order to be a Manchester United supporter, you actually have to SUPPORT and understand the club... These guys aren't supporting, clearly, and they obviously don't understand the history and heritage of our great club.

They're simply just an embarrassment.

 

[Zlatan 7]

You're right. I think you all misunderstand me in this point. I would be more than happy to give Ole time, if I saw enough to suggest he could get us playing the football required to top the big two in the league. Heck, I'd be willing to give him time if he acknowledged his shortcomings as a coach (something all coaches have) and hire the respective coaching staff to help him. There is no shame in admitting you aren't of the same coaching level as a Klopp or Pep. Especially when by now it's quite clear that Ole is a very good man manager.

SAF acknowledged his weaknesses, masked them with Carlos etc. in the past.

You're also right, Klopp also did struggle the first two years - but you could see what he was implementing, you could see they were here for the long run and building something special. I unfortunately, as much as I want to, currently don't see that with Ole. I really don't think our football has improved all that much since he came in. We are still an incredibly deadly time on the break, but still look absolutely lost for ideas when trying to break teams down.

Fair enough, I guess we just see things differently, I see a marked improvement in us over the last two years and have more hope that will lead to something in the next season or two, just as klopp basically built an entire new first eleven and then finished it off with a world class defender and keeper. It took players and time.

 

[romufc]

Yeah, but it's quite different in smaller leagues because the concurrence isn't that high. That's why Malmo are dominating in Sweden now, they managed to grab all the money from Europe and although they are playing like shit, they still won the league with ease last year because they are a step ahead financially and have by far the best squad. It was just a perspective into it. You can't really do more than win, and he did that. But I wouldn't say it's impressive. The fact is that Ole is unproven as hell. He has done a decent job at United rebuilding and so on, but he's still unproven and without clear results in titles. Personally, I'm not THAT bothered by the lack of titles, if I see development I'm good with that, people here called Klopp a serial loser and see what happened. I just don't see that clear development in our play, I guess I want a coach that has a clear identity. Hopefully, Ole will get us where we want but I can't see it.

Fair enough. I think that is what is lacking in this team. We all want us to to dominate games against most teams. I can understand the 1/2 off game here and there but we need to have wave after wave of attacks.

I am slightly different, I don't want a coach with clear identity, LVG and Jose had that and I would prefer Ole to them. If Ole fails this season, I want a coach with attacking identity, I am tired of defensive football.

 

[Kajus]

You completely miss my point. Klopp is coming off TWO consecutive years where he has won the CL and PL, before this injury ridden season. That's the whole point here. He has proven he has what it takes. Ole, even with arguably luck of the draw with injuries this season - has got us knocked out of the CL and is falling behind a City team who have also been dealt a shite hand with injuries at rapid pace.

No-one was calling for his head last season due to the injuries and needing time. What is the excuse this season?

Also re your point on not responding to people's posts: I really just can't be fecked responding to 7 posts all saying the same thing in different ways. Apologies.

What?

 

[anant]

You're right. I think you all misunderstand me in this point. I would be more than happy to give Ole time, if I saw enough to suggest he could get us playing the football required to top the big two in the league. Heck, I'd be willing to give him time if he acknowledged his shortcomings as a coach (something all coaches have) and hire the respective coaching staff to help him. There is no shame in admitting you aren't of the same coaching level as a Klopp or Pep. Especially when by now it's quite clear that Ole is a very good man manager.

SAF acknowledged his weaknesses, masked them with Carlos etc. in the past.

You're also right, Klopp also did struggle the first two years - but you could see what he was implementing, you could see they were here for the long run and building something special. I unfortunately, as much as I want to, currently don't see that with Ole. I really don't think our football has improved all that much since he came in. We are still an incredibly deadly time on the break, but still look absolutely lost for ideas when trying to break teams down.

Hmm, now I'm confused because people brought up his neglect of defending argument, remember that?

There's a lot of quality managers in the league at the moment and Klopp is one of them. He's the weakest of them all though imo.

His complete neglect for defending, his insistence in running his players into the ground all season long are mistakes.

It's not just the players. Have you seen their positioning when defending free kicks? It's a shambles. Genuinely beginning to think Klopp just doesn't know how to set up a good defence.

Liverpool wouldn't be in this situation under Jose.

He's a good manager, but not on the same level as others in the league.

He hasn't won anything in years pal. He's slowly but surely reaching Wenger status. His teams play some breathtaking football, I'd say his teams attack better than any team in the World, even City. Problem is that's all for nowt if you can't defend for shite.

Not targeting you specifically or anything, but fans usually have jackshit idea about what is going to happen 2 years down the line especially when we're relying on "patterns" and "style" and other BS. The only thing fans usually get correct is around sustainability of results in the near future (due to how stats have evolved), and the personnel profile (provided the same manager stays)

These posts and posts around Ole seem quite similar, don't they?

 

[FatherWolff]

Logged on. Logging off again. Jesus...

 

[Bobcat]

Since I really cannot be fecked responding to everyone's posts individually, I'll just respond to yours.

To start, the 80% win rate really isn't absurd, you're just living under a rock. Let's assess the last few EPL wins, shall we, since Pep and Klopp etc. joined. 16-17 was won with a 79% win percentage, 17-18 was won with a 84% win percentage, 2018-19 was won with a 84% win percentage so too was 2019-20. That's 4 consecutive years of 80 or so or above win percentage to win the league. It's not absurd, it's what's required to top the quality of coaching in this country with Pep and Klopp.

We are neck and neck with City and Liverpool for chances and goals, you're right. Where I disagree is the quality of said chances. We are scoring goals with a substantially less XG than those two teams. It is/was an anomaly. Which explains the whole individual brilliance schitk. We aren't scoring from places on the pitch/movements that usually result in goals as consistently as those teams. I wonder why that is.

That also explains how fecking drab we look when we can't score a goal forcing the opposition team to open up. Also, even without stats, you simply need to watch us play to see the difference in quality. It has nothing at all to do with personnel. City and Liverpool at their best can look as good as they do because there is a system which improves the players collectively. You compare that to us, terribly unorganised pressing, extremely slow and lethargic passing, predictable or lack of movement off the ball. Those are things that are taught, has nothing to do with the personnel.

Also, your point on City's squad depth is laughable. Claiming what I write seems like it's from Rawk, but then you go onto claim that if Sterling is shite they have all these players. For starters, Foden would play with Sterling, not as a back up to and Gundogan doesn't even play in the positions they do. It was a ridiculous take. That's like claiming our squad depth is so good because if Rashford is shite we can play Scotty. If anything, our squad depth is hardly something to laugh at. We have Martial, Rashford, Cavani, Greenwood, Bruno, Pogba, Daniel James, VDB, Amad (when and if he plays) etc. for 4 positions potentially.

You're right, we did have to spend money on the defence, that's fine. What isn't fine, is spending 150m on the defence and having the 10th best defence in the league. We have a worse defensive record than a Liverpool team playing with midfielders in defence who are supposedly having a terrible season. Arsenal, Villa, West Ham etc. just to name a few have a better defensive record than us. Fecking Arsenal. After we spent 150m on the defence.

Finally you're contradicting yourself. You can't claim that City's squad was being groomed for years and then talk about how much money he spent to change up his squad. Which one is it? Could it maybe just be that the serial trophy winner, who has just broken the record for consecutive wins in EPL history is just a better coach than Ole?

Also re my point on the injuries. I don't understand why people keep mentioning our injuries last season? I was critical of Ole at times last season but I was hardly calling for his head, I acknowledged he would need time. The difference is, at full strength, Klopp has won Liverpool the CL and the EPL. At full strength, Ole in 2 years has won us feck all.

Also my last point: and the most important one, I don't know why people keep quoting transfer fees and spend to me. I don't give a shite how much Klopp and Pep spent. You could see the fruits of what they were trying to implement even when their squads needed major surgery. Klopp's Pool were gegenpressing like their lives depended on it and Pep's teams were passing you into the ground. We do none of those things. It's not about personnel, it's about style. They spent heaps on players, you're right, but they earnt the right to do so by illustrating what they were implementing and having a history to show for it.

Above 80% is an anomaly and you know it. Right now City sit at 68% win rate in the league which will give them 86 points which happens to be smack average for PL winners since the competition was started. And this whole exercise is just pointless really. Pep and Klopp are both very much unavailable, so who the feck is going to come in and get us to an 80+ win rate in the league?

Our xG is 41.65, Pool has 42.93 and City have 46. So either you are getting your stats from somewhere else or you are just pulling them from your arse. And these "observations" of yours prove nothing. I happen to think currently we play much better football than Liverpool, who right now cant score in a brothel and seems completely out of ideas unless they spam crosses or play long onto Salah/Mane.

Yeah, our squad depth have improved quite a bit, but 5 of those players you mentioned was brought in by Ole, 6 if you count Greenwood. Should he not get some credit for getting the squad in that shape? And you've made your point about our defensive record about 5 times now. We get it. It should be better. But take away the total calamity vs Spurs when we were not even halfway matchfit and we are tied 4th best with Chelsea.

Klopp also won feck all his two(three) first seasons. In fact, besides Jose winning the EL we have won nothing of note since Fergie left, so what Klopp and Pep does at other clubs is really irrelevant in the grand scheme of things. The fact that you continually use the success of Liverpool and City to bash Ole with shows you're not really arguing in good faith, you're just having a good old moan.

And the fact that City was preparing for Pep AND he spent a lot of money when he first got there is not mutually exclusive you know? KdB, Sterling, Silva Aguero etc were exactly the type of player that Pep likes so its not like he came into a club that he had to overhaul from top to bottom You dont give a shit how much they spend but keep lambasting Ole for spending on defenders? Nice double standard there.

And that last bolded part really touches on the core of the matter. Who the feck do you suggest we bring in to get us to those lofty heights you long for? Nagelsmann? Rose? Klopp and Pep are very much unavailable so pining for those two wont do us much good.

 

[Mickson]

Fair enough. I think that is what is lacking in this team. We all want us to to dominate games against most teams. I can understand the 1/2 off game here and there but we need to have wave after wave of attacks.

I am slightly different, I don't want a coach with clear identity, LVG and Jose had that and I would prefer Ole to them. If Ole fails this season, I want a coach with attacking identity, I am tired of defensive football.

Don't get me wrong, I prefer Ole to Mourinho (who I don't think had an identity) and LvG, who was too boring. I like some of the things LvG did though, and his win at Anfield was masterclass IMO. I don't think we should have to choose between them. I had a friend who texted me like a year ago, who is an Arsenal fan. I think we played City. "Manchester United should dominate games, can you be happy with this? All my life, I have seen Man Utd dominate, you are the most powerful club in the country. It shouldn't look like this!" And even though we were in the beginning of Ole's reigm and we had to require patience, it got me thinking. Why should we settle for this? Man City is miles ahead of us. CITY IS AHEAD, OF UNITED! I think we all are a little bit guilty of lowering our standards, that's one of my biggest fears with United now. Not only the fans, but I sometimes sense that kind of thing from the club, from the manager, and even the players (Bruno exception). We haven't won the league in nearly ten years, time flies, and the years just roll by. It has been a process for nearly ten years. When does it stop? This is just general thinking and doesn't even have to do much with Ole... As I have stated, Ole has done good things, no doubt. But maybe I just want more, I want to see us dominate games again. Maybe it will come with Ole, but maybe it doesn't. What then?

 

[romufc]

Don't get me wrong, I prefer Ole to Mourinho (who I don't think had an identity) and LvG, who was too boring. I like some of the things LvG did though, and his win at Anfield was masterclass IMO. I don't think we should have to choose between them. I had a friend who texted me like a year ago, who is an Arsenal fan. I think we played City. "Manchester United should dominate games, can you be happy with this? All my life, I have seen Man Utd dominate, you are the most powerful club in the country. It shouldn't look like this!" And even though we were in the beginning of Ole's reigm and we had to require patience, it got me thinking. Why should we settle for this? Man City is miles ahead of us. CITY IS AHEAD, OF UNITED! I think we all are a little bit guilty of lowering our standards, that's one of my biggest fears with United now. Not only the fans, but I sometimes sense that kind of thing from the club, from the manager, and even the players (Bruno exception). We haven't won the league in nearly ten years, time flies, and the years just roll by. It has been a process for nearly ten years. When does it stop? This is just general thinking and doesn't even have to do much with Ole... As I have stated, Ole has done good things, no doubt. But maybe I just want more, I want to see us dominate games again. Maybe it will come with Ole, but maybe it doesn't. What then?

I totally agree with this. This is not about Ole, this is about Manchester United as a football club. I have said this before, we need a club philosophy. We went from Moyes, okay that we tried didn't work, to a possession based manager to a defensive manager? The club don't know what they want.

Firstly, I would give Ole till the end of the season and judge him on a few things.

1. League position - given the state we are in it has to be top 3.
2. Trophy - He has to win a trophy.
3. Style of play - We need to start dominating games, even ones we lose.

If he fails, he should be sacked.

If he is sacked, we need a manager who can work with this squad, one who will dominate football games, the rebuild narrative will not fly anymore and it shouldn't.

We have rebuilt the squad, we have a young squad and a couple additions and we have to be playing some of the best football in Europe. By this I mean, if you get drawn to Manutd, you are scared. Any team coming to OT knows they will concede chances, knows they will struggle to get a shot on goal.

I have watched City, Liverpool and the like dominate games against big teams and we need to start doing that. We can't be a team that hopes we score the first goal. Alot of big games, we struggle to come back after conceding first because we are set up that way.

 

[Matriac]

Don't get me wrong, I prefer Ole to Mourinho (who I don't think had an identity) and LvG, who was too boring. I like some of the things LvG did though, and his win at Anfield was masterclass IMO. I don't think we should have to choose between them. I had a friend who texted me like a year ago, who is an Arsenal fan. I think we played City. "Manchester United should dominate games, can you be happy with this? All my life, I have seen Man Utd dominate, you are the most powerful club in the country. It shouldn't look like this!" And even though we were in the beginning of Ole's reigm and we had to require patience, it got me thinking. Why should we settle for this? Man City is miles ahead of us. CITY IS AHEAD, OF UNITED! I think we all are a little bit guilty of lowering our standards, that's one of my biggest fears with United now. Not only the fans, but I sometimes sense that kind of thing from the club, from the manager, and even the players (Bruno exception). We haven't won the league in nearly ten years, time flies, and the years just roll by. It has been a process for nearly ten years. When does it stop? This is just general thinking and doesn't even have to do much with Ole... As I have stated, Ole has done good things, no doubt. But maybe I just want more, I want to see us dominate games again. Maybe it will come with Ole, but maybe it doesn't. What then?

This is the problem I have with so many people on here. It's not like we forgot to flip a switch that would have us dominating. Our club regressed extremely after SAF, in big part because we had no long term plan and we tried a bunch of different things.
We couldn't swap managers tomorrow and suddenly dominate matches.

"Both sides" on the last pages here have admitted that both Pep and Klopp was given time and resources, in Peps case they even built up his squad before he arrived, and Klopp was given time because expectations were lower. Considering our results the years before Ole shouldn't our expectations be a bit more moderate in the short term?
Unless we completely crash this season we are set to at least finish top4 two season in a row for the first time since SAF left, that sounds like stabilizing the club at the top and progress to me.

Does that mean I'm happy with our current predicament and will be satisfied if we stay at this level for the next 10 years? Of course not, I as any fan of our great club will demand progression and I really want us to dominate certain games again. But if you look at other matches than ours, say pool games last season, they struggled to dominate in many matches, barely edging out a win with a late goal. Even in such a heralded season of theirs they couldn't dominate every match. So I'm happy when we manage to get the percentages to edge out wins like we have this season, now I just want us to build on this to get some more games to dominate in the future. The Everton game looked to be one of those at half time, but we lost focus and they punished us (like they did to Spurs last night with 3 rapid goals).

We definitely have progress with Ole in charge, unlike our last managers who maybe started decent but kept regressing. Ole with the help of the club had to clean up after those experiments, and has shown progress year over year while doing it. That's why I'm happy. I don't consider it to be me lowering my expectations, it's me keeping realistic expectations of what is achievable per season as we build for the future.

Oh and it has gone 7 seasons since we won a title, that's nearer to 5 than 10 years. But it will be 8 if we don't win this year (which I'm not expecting).

 

[FatherWolff]

This is the problem I have with so many people on here. It's not like we forgot to flip a switch that would have us dominating. Our club regressed extremely after SAF, in big part because we had no long term plan and we tried a bunch of different things.
We couldn't swap managers tomorrow and suddenly dominate matches.

"Both sides" on the last pages here have admitted that both Pep and Klopp was given time and resources, in Peps case they even built up his squad before he arrived, and Klopp was given time because expectations were lower. Considering our results the years before Ole shouldn't our expectations be a bit more moderate in the short term?
Unless we completely crash this season we are set to at least finish top4 two season in a row for the first time since SAF left, that sounds like stabilizing the club at the top and progress to me.

Does that mean I'm happy with our current predicament and will be satisfied if we stay at this level for the next 10 years? Of course not, I as any fan of our great club will demand progression and I really want us to dominate certain games again. But if you look at other matches than ours, say pool games last season, they struggled to dominate in many matches, barely edging out a win with a late goal. Even in such a heralded season of theirs they couldn't dominate every match. So I'm happy when we manage to get the percentages to edge out wins like we have this season, now I just want us to build on this to get some more games to dominate in the future. The Everton game looked to be one of those at half time, but we lost focus and they punished us (like they did to Spurs last night with 3 rapid goals).

We definitely have progress with Ole in charge, unlike our last managers who maybe started decent but kept regressing. Ole with the help of the club had to clean up after those experiments, and has shown progress year over year while doing it. That's why I'm happy. I don't consider it to be me lowering my expectations, it's me keeping realistic expectations of what is achievable per season as we build for the future.

Oh and it has gone 7 seasons since we won a title, that's nearer to 5 than 10 years. But it will be 8 if we don't win this year (which I'm not expecting).

Good post mate! I would like to add we are doing some very good work in the youth department to. The club is being transformed back to its identity. What we lack is a DOF and a better strategy in the market for first team players.
It’s not on Ole we didn’t get Sancho or spent to much on Maguire. All these things take time, wether some believe it or not.

 

[Sweet Square]

No, he is not a great example against their argument. Because Liverpool fans would have had rightly had lower expectations, considering their club just doesn't have the same financial resources as some of their rivals.

They've spend 66 million and 75 million on a defender and goalkeeper. United have lost the greatest club manager of all time and haven't won a league title since, plus we've got tight fisted owners.

There's really no reason why United supporters shouldn't also have low expectations.

People here have been looking at Klopp's achievements thinking: Yeah, it was expected, less than this would have been a failure. No, I would say he over achieved compared with what people thought he would do when he was appointed.

Pool had a title challenge under Rodgers. Kopp came to Pool after almost getting Dortmund relegated, his first 3 years were bog standard in the league.

Agree that he has over achieved but that took plenty of time, with many ups and downs.

 

[AshRK]

I totally agree with this. This is not about Ole, this is about Manchester United as a football club. I have said this before, we need a club philosophy. We went from Moyes, okay that we tried didn't work, to a possession based manager to a defensive manager? The club don't know what they want.

Firstly, I would give Ole till the end of the season and judge him on a few things.

1. League position - given the state we are in it has to be top 3.
2. Trophy - He has to win a trophy.
3. Style of play - We need to start dominating games, even ones we lose.

If he fails, he should be sacked.

If he is sacked, we need a manager who can work with this squad, one who will dominate football games, the rebuild narrative will not fly anymore and it shouldn't.

We have rebuilt the squad, we have a young squad and a couple additions and we have to be playing some of the best football in Europe. By this I mean, if you get drawn to Manutd, you are scared. Any team coming to OT knows they will concede chances, knows they will struggle to get a shot on goal.

I have watched City, Liverpool and the like dominate games against big teams and we need to start doing that. We can't be a team that hopes we score the first goal. Alot of big games, we struggle to come back after conceding first because we are set up that way.

My only worry is if we sack him at end of this season (not likely), who should we go for. My preferred choices were Poch and Tuchel and both are off market now. I don't want Allegri, not that he is a bad manager but I don't want us to again play with inferior complex. Naggelsmann would be a good shout but I don't think he is joining us and I don't think he is ready now. Rodgers a big NO. If people think Ole is a bottler what makes anyone think Rodgers will topple Klopp/Pep.

I just don't know who should take over from Ole!

 

[Bobcat]

This is the problem I have with so many people on here. It's not like we forgot to flip a switch that would have us dominating. Our club regressed extremely after SAF, in big part because we had no long term plan and we tried a bunch of different things.
We couldn't swap managers tomorrow and suddenly dominate matches.

"Both sides" on the last pages here have admitted that both Pep and Klopp was given time and resources, in Peps case they even built up his squad before he arrived, and Klopp was given time because expectations were lower. Considering our results the years before Ole shouldn't our expectations be a bit more moderate in the short term?
Unless we completely crash this season we are set to at least finish top4 two season in a row for the first time since SAF left, that sounds like stabilizing the club at the top and progress to me.

Does that mean I'm happy with our current predicament and will be satisfied if we stay at this level for the next 10 years? Of course not, I as any fan of our great club will demand progression and I really want us to dominate certain games again. But if you look at other matches than ours, say pool games last season, they struggled to dominate in many matches, barely edging out a win with a late goal. Even in such a heralded season of theirs they couldn't dominate every match. So I'm happy when we manage to get the percentages to edge out wins like we have this season, now I just want us to build on this to get some more games to dominate in the future. The Everton game looked to be one of those at half time, but we lost focus and they punished us (like they did to Spurs last night with 3 rapid goals).

We definitely have progress with Ole in charge, unlike our last managers who maybe started decent but kept regressing. Ole with the help of the club had to clean up after those experiments, and has shown progress year over year while doing it. That's why I'm happy. I don't consider it to be me lowering my expectations, it's me keeping realistic expectations of what is achievable per season as we build for the future.

Oh and it has gone 7 seasons since we won a title, that's nearer to 5 than 10 years. But it will be 8 if we don't win this year (which I'm not expecting).

Nail. On. Head

Having a meltdown because we dont match two of the greatest league campaigns in modern history, lead by arguably the two best managers in the sport right now is just fecking weird. Of course everyone would prefer if we smashed everyone with style, but considering where we were two years ago i'd say we clearly are moving in the right direction

Of course things could be better. It could also be much worse. I also find it weird how confident people are that x,y and z manager who currently ply their trade and do reasonably well at a smaller club, with comparatively zero pressure, suddenly are going to turn us into world beaters "because coaching"

As you said, unless we collapse at the end of the season and miss out on CL, then Ole deserves another window to make the finishing touches on the squad, winning the FA cup or EL would of course be nice, but judging a manager by how they do in cups is not that smart honestly, since there is a fair bit of luck involved there

Case in point, this was our routes when we won the FA-cup and EL under LvG/Jose
Fa cup: Sheffield U, Derby, Shrewsbury, West Ham, Everton, Palace
EL: Saint-Etienne, Rostov, Anderlecht, Celta Vigo, Ajax

Not trying to shit on them here, but thats a pretty kind draw in both cases

 

[Amir]

They've spend 66 million and 75 million on a defender and goalkeeper. United have lost the greatest club manager of all time and haven't won a league title since, plus we've got tight fisted owners.

There's really no reason why United supporters shouldn't also have low expectations.

We have spent tons of money since Fergie. Not always wisely, but a lot. By the time Liverpool signed Alisson and Van Dijk, for instance, we already made Pogba the world's most expensive footballer - and he cost more.

The money Liverpool spent on a defender and goalkeeper took a team that was already playing terrific football and brought it up to that final level that made it whole and great. But the set up was there, the level of football and coaching was there.

Pool had a title challenge under Rodgers. Kopp came to Pool after almost getting Dortmund relegated, his first 3 years were bog standard in the league.

Agree that he has over achieved but that took plenty of time, with many ups and downs.

Obviously they weren't good enough to win the titles during those years, but again, you are looking at Liverpool and Klopp through the standards of United.

It doesn't matter what you say about Solskjaer, good or bad. Comparing him to Klopp does him no service what so ever.

 

[romufc]

My only worry is if we sack him at end of this season (not likely), who should we go for. My preferred choices were Poch and Tuchel and both are off market now. I don't want Allegri, not that he is a bad manager but I don't want us to again play with inferior complex. Naggelsmann would be a good shout but I don't think he is joining us and I don't think he is ready now. Rodgers a big NO. If people think Ole is a bottler what makes anyone think Rodgers will topple Klopp/Pep.

I just don't know who should take over from Ole!

That is a big concern. We need someone who is used to winning titles, that is what will take us to another level. A manager that will demand the highest standards week in week out.

I know the likes of Nagglesman, Hen Tag and even to some extent Hassnhutl are good managers but they aren't elite managers yet.

I think Nagglesman will get there but I feel he would need a season or so to implement his style and we do not have that time anymore.

This is the reason I really want Ole to get a trophy this season and get that money of the back.

 

[Desert Eagle]

It's not only that.

The club these guys have chosen to support - Manchester United - have only ever had two periods of success in their entire 140-year history, albeit they turned into long periods of success.

But they were long periods of success built off of a platform of giving managers time.

It took SIX YEARS for Alex Ferguson to win a league title...

It took SIX YEARS for Matt Busby to win a league title....

These guys like @Womp and @Mainoldo who want our current manager sacked and an Allegri or a Pochettino appointed instead have clearly chosen the wrong club to support. They don't even understand why the club they have chosen to support has ever been successful in the past... they just don't get it.. It's embarrassing for them... mortifying, to be honest.


There simply is NO DOUBT about this at all...

Womp and Mainoldo would have wanted Ferguson sacked in 1989 (because he was doing a LOT worse than Ole is doing now).

And Womp and Mainoldo would have wanted Busby sacked in 1949 (because he was doing a LOT worse than Ole is doing now).

These muppets clearly don't see a bigger picture... they're only interested in the last result. It's simply called narrow-mindedness. I don't know why you guys are giving them the time to respond to them. They are not Manchester United supporters... they claim they support Manchester United and they might have a few jerseys in their wardrobes... but they are not Manchester United SUPPORTERS.. Because in order to be a Manchester United supporter, you actually have to SUPPORT and understand the club... These guys aren't supporting, clearly, and they obviously don't understand the history and heritage of our great club.

They're simply just an embarrassment.

Did you cry your little heart out Moyes wasn't given 6 years?

 

[GoldTrafford99]

That is a big concern. We need someone who is used to winning titles, that is what will take us to another level. A manager that will demand the highest standards week in week out.

I know the likes of Nagglesman, Hen Tag and even to some extent Hassnhutl are good managers but they aren't elite managers yet.

I think Nagglesman will get there but I feel he would need a season or so to implement his style and we do not have that time anymore.

This is the reason I really want Ole to get a trophy this season and get that money of the back.

What about Mourinho... he's won titles all over Europe, right?

Or maybe Van Gaal, same as Mourinho, he, too, has won titles all over Europe.. I mean, They're the two most decorated managers around... I reckon if we got one of them in, United would just start eating up league titles. Guaranteed!

 

[GoldTrafford99]

Did you cry your little heart out Moyes wasn't given 6 years?

Like Alex Ferguson had asked of us, I supported Moyes every single day of his reign and was devastated when he was sacked.

That is the day we turned from being a football club entrenched in our envious heritage and history into a football club run by Ed Woodward, The day he sacked the long-term project of Moyes (because he, like a lot of idiot fans, couldn't see it as a long-term appointment, which is EXACTLY what Ferguson and Gill had rercuited Moyes for) and replaced him with short-termisim (and it was DESPERATE short-termism, let's all be honest about that) by appointing LvG was the day we turned into an absolute mess of a football club. Two years later he was sacking LvG for fecking Jose Mourinho. And three years later he was sacking him and turning back to Ferguson who told him "you need to be fecking thinking long-term" which is why they turned to Ole Gunnar.

So, yes, I was HUGELY disappointed when we sacked David Moyes, cos I saw what was coming. We are now where we shudda been probably the next year into Moyes' reign.. working our way slowly up to being contenders again. We have wasted, in the intervening years - 1.5billion on players and managers transfers and wages and seven years of our club's heritage. We nearly threw it all away.... We would have thrown it away had Ferguson not gotten Woodward to finally see a long-term vision by appointing Ole. In fact, from what I hear, it was more Ole who convinced Woodward than Fergie.

But thankfully, the guy running our football club has seen the light. He has finally learned how Manchester United have been successful and how we should be successful. Imagine if we had have just kept going down the road of appointing Allegri, and then Tuchel or something like that.. We would have been Chelsea. CHELSEA!!!

We are Manchester United for feck sake. We are a football CLUB, not a football TEAM. We win when we dominate. We don't win an odd league title here and there when we manage to get one managerial appointment along our ridiculous goes on the managerial merry-go-round correct. I would hate to support a football club like that.

I support Manchester United.

Now either you do, too. Or you don't.

 

[Robbie Boy]

Like Alex Ferguson had asked of us, I supported Moyes every single day of his reign and was devastated when he was sacked.

That is the day we turned from being a football club surrounded by our heritage and history into a football club run by Ed Woodward, The day he sacked the long-term project of Moyes (because he, like a lot of idiot fans, couldn't see it as a long-term appointment, which is EXACTLY what Ferguson and Gill had rercuited Moyes for) and replaced him with short-termisim (and it was DESPERATE short-termism) was the day we turned into an absolute mess of a football club. Two year slater he was sacking him for fecking Jose Mouirnho. And three years later he was sacking him and turning back to Ferguson who told him "you need to be fecking thinking long-term" which is why they turned to Ole Gunnar.

So, yes, I was HUGELY disappointed when we sacked David Moyes, cos I saw what was coming. We are now are KNOW where we shudda been probably the next year into Moyes' reign... We have wasted, in the intervening years - 1billion on players and managers and seven years of our club's heritage.

Drama of the year contender with each and every post from you. Devastated when Moyes was sacked

 

[#07]

 

[Dr. StrangeHate]

Like Alex Ferguson had asked of us, I supported Moyes every single day of his reign and was devastated when he was sacked.

That is the day we turned from being a football club surrounded by our heritage and history into a football club run by Ed Woodward, The day he sacked the long-term project of Moyes (because he, like a lot of idiot fans, couldn't see it as a long-term appointment, which is EXACTLY what Ferguson and Gill had rercuited Moyes for) and replaced him with short-termisim (and it was DESPERATE short-termism) was the day we turned into an absolute mess of a football club. Two year slater he was sacking him for fecking Jose Mouirnho. And three years later he was sacking him and turning back to Ferguson who told him "you need to be fecking thinking long-term" which is why they turned to Ole Gunnar.

So, yes, I was HUGELY disappointed when we sacked David Moyes, cos I saw what was coming. We are now are KNOW where we shudda been probably the next year into Moyes' reign... We have wasted, in the intervening years - 1billion on players and managers and seven years of our club's heritage.

You think Moyes would have gotten us to the level Ole has. Please share what you are smoking.

 

[Desert Eagle]

Like Alex Ferguson had asked of us, I supported Moyes every single day of his reign and was devastated when he was sacked.

That is the day we turned from being a football club entrenched in our envious heritage and history into a football club run by Ed Woodward, The day he sacked the long-term project of Moyes (because he, like a lot of idiot fans, couldn't see it as a long-term appointment, which is EXACTLY what Ferguson and Gill had rercuited Moyes for) and replaced him with short-termisim (and it was DESPERATE short-termism, let's all be honest about that) by appointing LvG was the day we turned into an absolute mess of a football club. Two years later he was sacking LvG for fecking Jose Mourinho. And three years later he was sacking him and turning back to Ferguson who told him "you need to be fecking thinking long-term" which is why they turned to Ole Gunnar.

So, yes, I was HUGELY disappointed when we sacked David Moyes, cos I saw what was coming. We are now where we shudda been probably the next year into Moyes' reign.. working our way slowly up to being contenders again. We have wasted, in the intervening years - 1.5billion on players and managers transfers and wages and seven years of our club's heritage. We nearly threw it all away.... We would have thrown it away had Ferguson not gotten Woodward to finally see a long-term vision by appointing Ole. In fact, from what I hear, it was more Ole who convinced Woodward moreso than Fergie.

Thats all I needed to read. Lets agree to disagree.

 

[romufc]

What about Mourinho... he's won titles all over Europe, right?

Or maybe Van Gaal, same as Mourinho, he, too, has won titles all over Europe.. I mean, They're the two most decorated managers around... I reckon if we got one of them in, United would just start eating up league titles. Guaranteed!

Before you get in and have tongue in cheek comments, please read the original thread.

" We went from Moyes, okay that we tried didn't work, to a possession based manager to a defensive manager? The club don't know what they want. "

And also, the poster mentioned progress not titles.

I don't know what you think you are trying to do with these posts, neither me or the poster said we want Ole sacked or we want Jose.

 

[romufc]

Like Alex Ferguson had asked of us, I supported Moyes every single day of his reign and was devastated when he was sacked.

That is the day we turned from being a football club entrenched in our envious heritage and history into a football club run by Ed Woodward, The day he sacked the long-term project of Moyes (because he, like a lot of idiot fans, couldn't see it as a long-term appointment, which is EXACTLY what Ferguson and Gill had rercuited Moyes for) and replaced him with short-termisim (and it was DESPERATE short-termism, let's all be honest about that) by appointing LvG was the day we turned into an absolute mess of a football club. Two years later he was sacking LvG for fecking Jose Mourinho. And three years later he was sacking him and turning back to Ferguson who told him "you need to be fecking thinking long-term" which is why they turned to Ole Gunnar.

So, yes, I was HUGELY disappointed when we sacked David Moyes, cos I saw what was coming. We are now where we shudda been probably the next year into Moyes' reign.. working our way slowly up to being contenders again. We have wasted, in the intervening years - 1.5billion on players and managers transfers and wages and seven years of our club's heritage. We nearly threw it all away.... We would have thrown it away had Ferguson not gotten Woodward to finally see a long-term vision by appointing Ole. In fact, from what I hear, it was more Ole who convinced Woodward than Fergie.

But thankfully, the guy running our football club has seen the light. He has finally learned how Manchester United have been successful and how we should be successful. Imagine if we had have just kept going down the road of appointing Allegri, and then Tuchel or something like that.. We would have been Chelsea. CHELSEA!!!

We are Manchester United for feck sake. We are a football CLUB, not a football TEAM. We win when we dominate. We don't win an odd league title here and there when we manage to get one managerial appointment along our ridiculous goes on the managerial merry-go-round correct. I would hate to support a football club like that.

I support Manchester United.

Now either you do, too. Or you don't.

Firstly, Moyes sacking was warranted. Forget his long term planning and what not. First of all he couldn't convince Kroos, thiago and the like to join and then he made us go after the likes of Fellaini, Baines and Mata when we had Kagawa.

Then he sacked everyone in the coaching staff thinking he knows best and got us playing football they play at Everton. Like you said this is MANCHESTER UNITED.. not a mid table club where you play for a corner.

The players who played under Fergie saw standards drop which is the reason he got sacked.

Get on with the times, managers come and go, stop living in the 20th century where you think one manager will win you title after title, alot of things have changed..

The detail in football, wages, competition has all changed, you cannot expect your team to just go and win title after title. If we change 10 managers and win 6 titles, I will take it over winning nothing in 10 years.

You must be very very naive to think that Fergie is the reason Ole is still in the job. Fergie might have an influence but he is not the reasons decisions are made..

 

[Sweet Square]

We have spent tons of money since Fergie. Not always wisely, but a lot. By the time Liverpool signed Alisson and Van Dijk, for instance, we already made Pogba the world's most expensive footballer - and he cost more.

The money Liverpool spent on a defender and goalkeeper took a team that was already playing terrific football and brought it up to that final level that made it whole and great. But the set up was there, the level of football and coaching was there.

66 million and 75 million is a lot of money(Pogba cost 15 million more than Van Dijk). Liverpool aren't so broke football club, they are sadly still a pretty big deal in world football.

The level of football, set up and coaching wasn't there(League wise)in the first 3 seasons. It's only now that they've won the league we can look back and say well of course that team was going to achieve great things(People will make the same arguments if we will the league this season or next).

It doesn't matter what you say about Solskjaer, good or bad. Comparing him to Klopp does him no service what so ever.

It's less a comparison and more pointing out that even great managers like Klopp need time.

 

[Robbie Boy]

I don't know what you think you are trying to do with these posts, neither me or the poster said we want Ole sacked or we want Jose.

Best ignored mate. All his posts are absolute hysterical, preachy, bullshit to show what a top fan he is. He literally ignores the context of every post he quotes, and goes on the exact same rampage with pretty much the same content in every one of his posts. There's absolutely no chance he's not a returnee who was banned.

 

[Amir]

66 million and 75 million is a lot of money(Pogba cost 15 million more than Van Dijk). Liverpool aren't so broke football club, they are sadly still a pretty big deal in world football.

They are not broke... but even most of that money they received by selling Coutinho.

They are a level or two below us when it comes to spending power.

The level of football, set up and coaching wasn't there(League wise)in the first 3 seasons. It's only now that they've won the league we can look back and say well of course that team was going to achieve great things(People will make the same arguments if we will the league this season or next).

Naa, I'd say those things were very much there. Obviously they needed to be complemented with higher quality of players in a couple of positions in which they were very weak, but the coaching and set up weren't improved just because they signed Allison and Van Dijk.

Sure, you could never be certain what they were showing in the first three seasons would be further improved to the level they can compete for the league and CL, but they were a very, very impressive side and the coaching was very, very impressive.

It's less a comparison and more pointing out that even great managers like Klopp need time.

That can potentially be true to any manager. But of course, you could also end up just wasting time.

 

[Olecurls99]

You're right. I think you all misunderstand me in this point. I would be more than happy to give Ole time, if I saw enough to suggest he could get us playing the football required to top the big two in the league. Heck, I'd be willing to give him time if he acknowledged his shortcomings as a coach (something all coaches have) and hire the respective coaching staff to help him. There is no shame in admitting you aren't of the same coaching level as a Klopp or Pep. Especially when by now it's quite clear that Ole is a very good man manager.

SAF acknowledged his weaknesses, masked them with Carlos etc. in the past.

You're also right, Klopp also did struggle the first two years - but you could see what he was implementing, you could see they were here for the long run and building something special. I unfortunately, as much as I want to, currently don't see that with Ole. I really don't think our football has improved all that much since he came in. We are still an incredibly deadly time on the break, but still look absolutely lost for ideas when trying to break teams down.

Whereas Liverpool and there amazing genius coach are beating teams 6 nil every week are they? Why isn't Jurgen able to supercoach his players to break teams down recently? Come to think of it, we're on course to get roughly the same amount of goals as their title winning side. If they have a super coach who can destroy teams with his tactical prowess, then how come Ole and his team are on course to get roughly the same amount of goals that Liverpool got last season?

Think for yourself Wompy. Don't believe the media hype.

 

[abbulf]

Ole, even with arguably luck of the draw with injuries this season - has got us knocked out of the CL and is falling behind a City team who have also been dealt a shite hand with injuries at rapid pace.

No-one was calling for his head last season due to the injuries and needing time. What is the excuse this season?

This is just beyond crazy.

The team is currently 2nd in the premier league, in the qf of the fa cup after recently knocking out Liverpool, and there is a need for excuses???

Sure, sack the guy. That is surely what any sane person would do.

 

[GoldTrafford99]

Best ignored mate. All his posts are absolute hysterical, preachy, bullshit to show what a top fan he is. He literally ignores the context of every post he quotes, and goes on the exact same rampage with pretty much the same content in every one of his posts. There's absolutely no chance he's not a returnee who was banned.

nonsense.

The ire of my posts is not the players of the club I support, nor the manager of the club I support, whom have all done a great job in turning this club around from almost becoming Chelsea.

My ire is at the shit-show of 'supporters' who come on here crticising all aspects of the club, from the owners, to the manager, to the best academy graduate we will probably ever have in Marcus Rashford. Literally every day, somebody is having a pop at our football club, Yet they call themselves 'fans.' I don't go round bitching about the club I chose to support....

I am supporting my club.

I am backing my club.

That's what SUPPORTERS are supposed to do.

You can get on with bitching about our club if you so wish. But you won't shut me up, Bobby.

 

[Hellboy]

It's not only that.

The club these guys have chosen to support - Manchester United - have only ever had two periods of success in their entire 140-year history, albeit they turned into long periods of success.

But they were long periods of success built off of a platform of giving managers time.

It took SIX YEARS for Alex Ferguson to win a league title...

It took SIX YEARS for Matt Busby to win a league title....

These guys like @Womp and @Mainoldo who want our current manager sacked and an Allegri or a Pochettino appointed instead have clearly chosen the wrong club to support. They don't even understand why the club they have chosen to support has ever been successful in the past... they just don't get it.. It's embarrassing for them... mortifying, to be honest.


There simply is NO DOUBT about this at all...

Womp and Mainoldo would have wanted Ferguson sacked in 1989 (because he was doing a LOT worse than Ole is doing now).

And Womp and Mainoldo would have wanted Busby sacked in 1949 (because he was doing a LOT worse than Ole is doing now).

These muppets clearly don't see a bigger picture... they're only interested in the last result. It's simply called narrow-mindedness. I don't know why you guys are giving them the time to respond to them. They are not Manchester United supporters... they claim they support Manchester United and they might have a few jerseys in their wardrobes... but they are not Manchester United SUPPORTERS.. Because in order to be a Manchester United supporter, you actually have to SUPPORT and understand the club... These guys aren't supporting, clearly, and they obviously don't understand the history and heritage of our great club.

They're simply just an embarrassment.

What’s embarassing is your moral ground

You don’t have the ownership of how to support Manchester United.

 

[Raveneye]

I'm of the opinion Ole will do enough to coach Manchester United successfully for years to come.

If you are of the opinion that he has done a lot to get Manchester United healthy and thriving again, but doubt he has what it takes to take us to the absolute top, then here's a question for you: What coach would fit Manchester United'a direction? Ole inners welcome to give input as well.

Let's say we accept that the scouts are well supported, the academy is thriving, morale is high, players have been purchased that fit Ole's idea of how Manchester United should play. You shouldnt take all that and then cram someone like LVG in there because LVG's ideas about football just don't fit how this team has been built. You would take a Hammer to Bruno Fernandes at the knees if you forced him to play strict possession football. Fred and AWB and Rashford would never suit such a system. Manchester United are built for direct football, where risky passes get made and a number of players have freedom to play in coached but optional roles.

Let's say the board "promote" Ole to Director of Football. Ole is now focused on everything he does best other than perhaps being less involved day to day as a man manager. He has pretty much final say on transfers, monitors the academy, talks to the scouts and keeps building the club and the team the way he envisions it.

Who could work with Ole? Because to me that would be an important factor. Whoever came in next would need to be able to do better with what Ole has built than what Ole can do, and that would in part mean not tearing everything Ole apart everything he has built and would continue to build as DoF.

 

[Robbie Boy]

nonsense.

The ire of my posts is not the players of the club I support, nor the manager of the club I support, whom have all done a great job in turning this club around from almost becoming Chelsea.

My ire is at the shit-show of 'supporters' who come on here crticising all aspects of the club, from the owners, to the manager, to the best academy graduate we will probably ever have in Marcus Rashford. Literally every day, somebody is having a pop at our football club, Yet they call themselves 'fans.' They're like a bunch of bitches. I don't go round bitching about the club I chose to support....

I am supporting my club.

I am backing my club.

That's what SUPPORTERS are supposed to do.

You can get on with bitching about our club if you so wish. But you won't shut me up, Bobby.

Jesus

 

[MinGin]

I totally agree with this. This is not about Ole, this is about Manchester United as a football club. I have said this before, we need a club philosophy. We went from Moyes, okay that we tried didn't work, to a possession based manager to a defensive manager? The club don't know what they want.

Firstly, I would give Ole till the end of the season and judge him on a few things.

1. League position - given the state we are in it has to be top 3.
2. Trophy - He has to win a trophy.
3. Style of play - We need to start dominating games, even ones we lose.

If he fails, he should be sacked.

If he is sacked, we need a manager who can work with this squad, one who will dominate football games, the rebuild narrative will not fly anymore and it shouldn't.

We have rebuilt the squad, we have a young squad and a couple additions and we have to be playing some of the best football in Europe. By this I mean, if you get drawn to Manutd, you are scared. Any team coming to OT knows they will concede chances, knows they will struggle to get a shot on goal.

I have watched City, Liverpool and the like dominate games against big teams and we need to start doing that. We can't be a team that hopes we score the first goal. Alot of big games, we struggle to come back after conceding first because we are set up that way.

But even in Sir Alex era (after 03"), we had not dominated the games so often and not like the style of City and Liverpool, we were played like a open play games with a high transition. Lets the opposites side attack then counter them wave by wave.

 

[romufc]

But even in Sir Alex era (after 03"), we had not dominated the games so often and not like the style of City and Liverpool, we were played like a open play games with a high transition. Lets the opposites side attack then counter them wave by wave.

Yes, thats the tactic that worked. Also, you can't tell me the 07/08 team didn't dominate matches because they did. If you want to pick seasons we didn't thats fine.

Also, under Fergie if we were a goal down or drawing at 60 minutes you would see wave after wave not sit back, go watch some of those games back.

Finally, I am not saying I want the Fergie style football back, fans need to move on from Fergie. We need to dominate games.

 

[Mainoldo]

Whereas Liverpool and there amazing genius coach are beating teams 6 nil every week are they? Why isn't Jurgen able to supercoach his players to break teams down recently? Come to think of it, we're on course to get roughly the same amount of goals as their title winning side. If they have a super coach who can destroy teams with his tactical prowess, then how come Ole and his team are on course to get roughly the same amount of goals that Liverpool got last season?

Think for yourself Wompy. Don't believe the media hype.

So why do we need a new defence yet our defenders are all fit. Meanwhile the super coach has no first team CB but has conceded less goals than us?

Riddle me that Curly!

 

[romufc]

So why do we need a new defence yet our defenders are all fit. Meanwhile the super coach has no first team CB but has conceded less goals than us?

Riddle me that Curly!

Bailly and Tuanzebe are always injured

Phil Jones is always injured

Yet the narrative is our defenders are all fit.