Ole Gunnar Solskjær | 2021/22 Discussion

[bond19821982]

I haven't updated this since the Everton result, but this should show some of you that we are making progress. 44 points at 22 games in is the 2nd best season we've had since Sir Alex retired. This is a team that is still progressing, still getting better, it's taking time, it requires patience. But it's clear to anyone with eyes that we're going in the right direction. It's just taking time as we're so fecking slow in the transfer market.

Games Played	20-21	19-20	18-19	17-18	16-17	15-16	14-15	13-14
16​	33​	24​	26​	35​	27​	29​	31​	25​
17​	36​	25​	26​	38​	30​	29​	32​	28​
18​	37​	25​	29​	41​	33​	29​	35​	31​
19​	40​	28​	32​	42​	36​	30​	36​	34​
20​	40​	31​	35​	43​	39​	33​	37​	34​
21​	41​	31​	38​	44​	40​	34​	37​	37​
22​	44​	34​	41​	47​	41​	37​	40​	37​

You should probably add the final position of each year as well.

We were only 3 points off on 16-17 and 18-19 and yet we missed the top 4 . Reiterates why we can't be sloppy like this weekend because all it takes is couple of results to push us back.

 

[UnofficialDevil]

My memory of Jose (apart from 3 months of excitement when we got him and the sun was shining) was boring as feck and going no where even when we did win, it’s light years away to where we are now no matter how much you want to compare points across seasons

But he still has to do better than 2nd 86 points 68 goals scored, to be considered an improvement. And win the Europa.

 

[Hellboy]

Literally the only stat you've got.

How many times did we bottle when it matters most ? It comes from the manager.

4 semi final exits, pathetic Champions League campaign where 1 point from 3 games was needed to qualify.

He’s tactically clueless as shown against Everton again, didn’t react to their second half change of formation and made his first non forced sub in added time while we were crying out for more control in the middle and he always complains about fixture congestion.

He’s a good man manager but an absolute clown of a coach, up there with the worst in the league and definitely not good enough to make us challenge for top honors, he said himself that we were not in a title charge, no wonder Bruno Fernandes came out all gun blazing in his post match interview .. I would also hate having a loser of a manager in charge.

 

[Zlatan 7]

How many times did we bottle when it matters most ? It comes from the manager.

4 semi final exits, pathetic Champions League campaign where 1 point from 3 games was needed to qualify.

He’s tactically clueless as shown against Everton again, didn’t react to their second half change of formation and made his first non forced sub in added time while we were crying out for more control in the middle and he always complains about fixture congestion.

He’s a good man manager but an absolute clown of a coach, up there with the worst in the league and definitely not good enough to make us challenge for top honors, he said himself that we were not in a title charge, no wonder Bruno Fernandes came out all gun blazing in his post match interview .. I would also hate having a loser of a manager in charge.

We must watch different matches and thinking people differently. I thought we controlled that match against Everton bar brain farts for the goals. And Ole a loser? Come on

 

[OleBoiii]

But he still has to do better than 2nd 86 points 68 goals scored, to be considered an improvement. And win the Europa.

81 points. And Mourinho didn't win a single trophy in his second season. And his football was piss boring. And things went straight to hell immediately after.

 

[Hellboy]

We must watch different matches and thinking people differently. I thought we controlled that match against Everton bar brain farts for the goals. And Ole a loser? Come on

Everton had more big chances created and was running through our midfield for fun in the second half. What did we create in the second half apart from McT’s goal ? Not much.

 

[Zlatan 7]

Everton had more big chances created and was running through our midfield for fun in the second half. What did we create in the second half apart from McT’s goal ? Not much.

The Everton match? I thought they had the 3 shots on goal and 3 goals, mainly from mistakes.
Ole a loser?

 

[AltiUn]

How many times did we bottle when it matters most ? It comes from the manager.

4 semi final exits, pathetic Champions League campaign where 1 point from 3 games was needed to qualify.

He’s tactically clueless as shown against Everton again, didn’t react to their second half change of formation and made his first non forced sub in added time while we were crying out for more control in the middle and he always complains about fixture congestion.

He’s a good man manager but an absolute clown of a coach, up there with the worst in the league and definitely not good enough to make us challenge for top honors, he said himself that we were not in a title charge, no wonder Bruno Fernandes came out all gun blazing in his post match interview .. I would also hate having a loser of a manager in charge.

Solskajer's a loser? The man's probably won more than our entire team combined.

 

[Karlos PFC]

Solskajer's a loser? The man's probably won more than our entire team combined.

As a player. Big difference

 

[romufc]

How many times did we bottle when it matters most ? It comes from the manager.

4 semi final exits, pathetic Champions League campaign where 1 point from 3 games was needed to qualify.

He’s tactically clueless as shown against Everton again, didn’t react to their second half change of formation and made his first non forced sub in added time while we were crying out for more control in the middle and he always complains about fixture congestion.

He’s a good man manager but an absolute clown of a coach, up there with the worst in the league and definitely not good enough to make us challenge for top honors, he said himself that we were not in a title charge, no wonder Bruno Fernandes came out all gun blazing in his post match interview .. I would also hate having a loser of a manager in charge.

He is the reason we got to the semi finals too.. Unless we had a different manager to get us there that only you know of.

He's tactically clueless? I didn't realise DDG parrying is a tactical situation. I guess Klopp is a poor tactician, if he was better they would have won another CL and drew yesterday.

We controlled the whole game, I am not sure what changes you wanted?

Managers say they are not in a race all the time, its the media they are playing against. The worst coach is 2nd in the league? Surely that can't be right?

The worst coach in the league has wins against Jose, Pep, Klopp, Tuchel etccc. explain that?

 

[SAFMUTD]

I do not think it's wise to compare point tally's across different seasons because no 2 seasons are comparable in competition. It just pans out in a way where relative performance can only be made to their peers in that season alone.

With that in mind I think its worth evaluating Ole on his targets. I doubted Ole too and to an extent I still do, but in his second full season he might well close the gap materially on Liverpool and City. That undeniably would mark better progress than Jose, who finished a good 20+ points behind City in the season he got 2nd.

Sure if Ole ends up with a similar distance then I agree he'd have achieved no more than Jose.

If comparing points across two different seasons isn't wise, what do you think should be evaluated? Distance in points from the champion?

We've only closed the gap between us and Liverpool because Liverpool is under a crisis currently. But anyone reasonable knows they'll improve.

Still the standard in which we evaluate Ole shouldnt be whether he's better or worse than Mourinho or if he closed the gap between us and Liverpool/City. It should be, as everyone before him, winning titles. As I said before, it seems we are happy to lower our standards just so Ole doesn't look like failing.

 

[Withnail]

How many times did we bottle when it matters most ? It comes from the manager.

4 semi final exits, pathetic Champions League campaign where 1 point from 3 games was needed to qualify.

He’s tactically clueless as shown against Everton again, didn’t react to their second half change of formation and made his first non forced sub in added time while we were crying out for more control in the middle and he always complains about fixture congestion.

He’s a good man manager but an absolute clown of a coach, up there with the worst in the league and definitely not good enough to make us challenge for top honors, he said himself that we were not in a title charge, no wonder Bruno Fernandes came out all gun blazing in his post match interview .. I would also hate having a loser of a manager in charge.

The team he didn't change got themselves back into a winning position and should have won it but for a defensive sh*tshow. We were the better team throughout that game.

It's amazing that the worst manager in the league has fluked his way to finishing third last season and currently has his team in second spot.

Is this parody?

 

[VP89]

If comparing points across two different seasons isn't wise, what do you think should be evaluated? Distance in points from the champion?

We've only closed the gap between us and Liverpool because Liverpool is under a crisis currently. But anyone reasonable knows they'll improve.

Still the standard in which we evaluate Ole shouldnt be whether he's better or worse than Mourinho or if he closed the gap between us and Liverpool/City. It should be, as everyone before him, winning titles. As I said before, it seems we are happy to lower our standards just so Ole doesn't look like failing.

I think you can only compare relative performances in campaigns yes, for example Ole's relative performance last season vs his relative performance this season.

It's not only Liverpool - Arsenal, Chelsea, Spurs have all struggled with consistency. Leicester have continued their consistency, but we are still above all of them right now. There has to be a lot of credit given there. Ole will certainly be judged on silverware but it is not reasonable to expect a league challenge in year 2.

Even though I am thoroughly disappointed with how he sets us up for matches against most the top 6, and I was extremely annoyed at how he preferred us to sit back and protect a lead vs Everton, I have to look at the bigger picture and see there's a lot more good than bad.

 

[SAFMUTD]

My memory of Jose (apart from 3 months of excitement when we got him and the sun was shining) was boring as feck and going no where even when we did win, it’s light years away to where we are now no matter how much you want to compare points across seasons

Do you find our performances entertaining? I'll accept we have some really entertaining ones like our last 2 games. But still we have some boredom fests such as against Arsenal, Chelsea, Sheffield, etc. Its not as if we are a entertainment machine, we still produce very dull performances.

Im not defending Mourinhos time here, he was rightfully sacked and should had been sacked before. All I'm saying is I dont see the amazing improvement we've done that many posters here claim about.

A huge improvement I see is in the dressing room climate, its clear players are happy under Ole. But besides that I dont see any improvement worthy to highlight.

 

[Foxbatt]

Everyone wants to push their own agenda. Ole did well to get us to this point but then he is losing the plot. Yes he cannot be blamed for the feck up of DeGea. He is to blame for the loss. But Ole is also to blame for his game management. Our worst players for heading the ball are AWB, Axel and Lindelof. What did he do in the last minute of the game? He brings on Axel. Different games need different players. If he needed to bring on anyone it should have been Matic who is a good header of the ball and very experienced.
Do we need players? yes we do. All teams do.

 

[SAFMUTD]

I think you can only compare relative performances in campaigns yes, for example Ole's relative performance last season vs his relative performance this season.

It's not only Liverpool - Arsenal, Chelsea, Spurs have all struggled with consistency. Leicester have continued their consistency, but we are still above all of them right now. There has to be a lot of credit given there. Ole will certainly be judged on silverware but it is not reasonable to expect a league challenge in year 2.

Why are you comparing us with Arsenal, Chelsea, Leicester and Spurs? They are below us, they shouldn't even be in the conversation. You talk as if our aim is top 4 not winning the league. We should compare ourselves with the best. Ok 2 seasons is not reasonable to expect a league challenge, how many seasons do you think its fair? Because I dont remember any manager being given that free pass of not having to challenge for the league because it wasnt reasonable.

Even though I am thoroughly disappointed with how he sets us up for matches against most the top 6, and I was extremely annoyed at how he preferred us to sit back and protect a lead vs Everton, I have to look at the bigger picture and see there's a lot more good than bad.

Yes I agree there more good than bad, all Im saying is that eventhough there's more good than bad its not good enough. Im not calling Ole a PE teacher or the worst manager in the league, all Im saying is that he's not between the best. We need someone who is.

 

[FatherWolff]

Everyone wants to push their own agenda. Ole did well to get us to this point but then he is losing the plot. Yes he cannot be blamed for the feck up of DeGea. He is to blame for the loss. But Ole is also to blame for his game management. Our worst players for heading the ball are AWB, Axel and Lindelof. What did he do in the last minute of the game? He brings on Axel. Different games need different players. If he needed to bring on anyone it should have been Matic who is a good header of the ball and very experienced.
Do we need players? yes we do. All teams do.

So Ole should get credit then, since we actually played some very good football in this game. Our first half was world class in pressing and retention. Moving the ball very well and creating chances. I’m not sure Axel was brought on for his heading, because Everton tried to move the ball. Although I would want Matic myself, it would be totall hypocrisy pretending this sub overshadowed the personal mistakes and how well we controlled the game. Even got back on the front foot after a bad start to the second half. But you are right! Everyone push their own agenda..

 

[VP89]

Why are you comparing us with Arsenal, Chelsea, Leicester and Spurs? They are below us, they shouldn't even be in the conversation. You talk as if our aim is top 4 not winning the league. We should compare ourselves with the best. Ok 2 seasons is not reasonable to expect a league challenge, how many seasons do you think its fair? Because I dont remember any manager being given that free pass of not having to challenge for the league because it wasnt reasonable.

Chelsea spent buckets more and are below, Spurs still have a good squad and a more accomplished manager (and are still below), Leicester are the mark of consistency in the Premier League bar City of course, and they are also still below.

I did not say top 4 is the target. I said our aim in 2nd season should be pushing for silverware and materially closing the gap on the teams that have walked the league in the past 3 seasons. In that sense Ole does look like he is making progress.

Yes I agree there more good than bad, all Im saying is that eventhough there's more good than bad its not good enough. Im not calling Ole a PE teacher or the worst manager in the league, all Im saying is that he's not between the best. We need someone who is.

We probably do but no manager is going to walk in being a proven winner. Whether you wanted Poch, or want Nagalsmann/Rose etc. they will all come with their own risks anyway. So you might as well trust in Ole while he has us on an upward trajectory at least. I too believe there will be a stage where he's taken us as far as he can but I'm not sure how far away that is.

 

[anant]

I haven't updated this since the Everton result, but this should show some of you that we are making progress. 44 points at 22 games in is the 2nd best season we've had since Sir Alex retired. This is a team that is still progressing, still getting better, it's taking time, it requires patience. But it's clear to anyone with eyes that we're going in the right direction. It's just taking time as we're so fecking slow in the transfer market.

Games Played	20-21	19-20	18-19	17-18	16-17	15-16	14-15	13-14
16​	33​	24​	26​	35​	27​	29​	31​	25​
17​	36​	25​	26​	38​	30​	29​	32​	28​
18​	37​	25​	29​	41​	33​	29​	35​	31​
19​	40​	28​	32​	42​	36​	30​	36​	34​
20​	40​	31​	35​	43​	39​	33​	37​	34​
21​	41​	31​	38​	44​	40​	34​	37​	37​
22​	44​	34​	41​	47​	41​	37​	40​	37​

I think people really need to appreciate how good Dave was in 17/18 season when we compare ourselves to that season. Our xGA that season after 23 games was 28.36, whereas we had conceded just 16 goals. This season, our xGA is 27.40 and we've conceded 30

 

[Zlatan 7]

Do you find our performances entertaining? I'll accept we have some really entertaining ones like our last 2 games. But still we have some boredom fests such as against Arsenal, Chelsea, Sheffield, etc. Its not as if we are a entertainment machine, we still produce very dull performances.

Im not defending Mourinhos time here, he was rightfully sacked and should had been sacked before. All I'm saying is I dont see the amazing improvement we've done that many posters here claim about.

A huge improvement I see is in the dressing room climate, its clear players are happy under Ole. But besides that I dont see any improvement worthy to highlight.

I don’t think every game is garunteed entertainment, it’s just a feeling that I have that I prefer watching us now and look forward to matches instead of thinking here’s another one.

Also agreeing with you, the team morale and general outlook looks far more positive and maybe I’m just hoping but I’ve got more hope of this team improving and winning meaningful trophies than I did with Mourhinos even if I am just using my eyes instead of stats to make that call

 

[anant]

Do you find our performances entertaining? I'll accept we have some really entertaining ones like our last 2 games. But still we have some boredom fests such as against Arsenal, Chelsea, Sheffield, etc. Its not as if we are a entertainment machine, we still produce very dull performances.

Im not defending Mourinhos time here, he was rightfully sacked and should had been sacked before. All I'm saying is I dont see the amazing improvement we've done that many posters here claim about.

A huge improvement I see is in the dressing room climate, its clear players are happy under Ole. But besides that I dont see any improvement worthy to highlight.

3+ goal hauls in PL this season:
Man Utd- 9
Liverpool- 7
City-6

Most goals in the league as well, but ofcourse, keep going on

 

[romufc]

Do you find our performances entertaining? I'll accept we have some really entertaining ones like our last 2 games. But still we have some boredom fests such as against Arsenal, Chelsea, Sheffield, etc. Its not as if we are a entertainment machine, we still produce very dull performances.

Im not defending Mourinhos time here, he was rightfully sacked and should had been sacked before. All I'm saying is I dont see the amazing improvement we've done that many posters here claim about.

A huge improvement I see is in the dressing room climate, its clear players are happy under Ole. But besides that I dont see any improvement worthy to highlight.

Its not easy to put on entertaining games this season. Even City are not as entertaining to watch as some claim. I would rather us draw bore against City, Chelsea and not lose than playing well and losing 2/3 nil like City did to Chelsea, Arsenal, Liverpool.

Sometimes you have to appreciate where you are, if you do not give the rivals an advantage by beating you, it might actually be the way to go.

Games like SU can happen though.

 

[Hellboy]

Solskajer's a loser? The man's probably won more than our entire team combined.

Yeah he won the famous Norwegian League great

Saying that we’re not title challengers as things stand is nothing short of a loser’s mentality like it or not

 

[Mindhunter]

Everyone wants to push their own agenda. Ole did well to get us to this point but then he is losing the plot. Yes he cannot be blamed for the feck up of DeGea. He is to blame for the loss. But Ole is also to blame for his game management. Our worst players for heading the ball are AWB, Axel and Lindelof. What did he do in the last minute of the game? He brings on Axel. Different games need different players. If he needed to bring on anyone it should have been Matic who is a good header of the ball and very experienced.
Do we need players? yes we do. All teams do.

Because we drew a match against Everton which we were leading 2-0 and dominated? Get a grip. Of course there is room for improvement, especially in organizing our defense and upgrading a regressing goalkeeper but saying Ole has lost the plot is knee jerk.

 

[Bobcat]

People saying we are on the right track and everything. Ole has been here for over 2 years now. How much time until we start demanding results?

I still see the same weakness we have since day 1, we are awful at set pieces. We don't know how to build from the back when facing high press and we struggle to create changes against low blocks.

I dont believe all the "rebuild" shit, I think that's a poor argument to buy time by lowering expectations. Let's say we are rebuilding so nothing can be expected as long as we're still in the rebuilding period.

If anything I think we've gone backwards performance wise since the end of last season. Yes we're on track to get more points but we don't dominate games, put our performances to the eye test and we have suffered every win besides Leeds and Southampton, even against the poorest opposition.

Players come and go in all seasons. So whats so different about the time with Ole that this is called a rebuild?

So I ask again, next season will we finally ask for a title again? Or is it going to be another "rebuild" year? Because this has to be the longest rebuild I've seen from a top club.

We are improving, thats what matters

We suck at defending set pieces because we have a keeper that wont leave his line if his life depended on it, opposing teams knows this, so they can blast it into the 6 yard box where any touch becomes dangerous. Everyone struggles vs low blocks..and right now we happen to be the highest scores in the league so...

We've been in rebuild mode since Fergie because Moyes, LvG and Jose (and the board) kept fecking it up. Our average league position since Fergie left has been 5th, so its not exactly been all rosy the last couple of years. The teams we've put out under Moyes, LvG and Jose have been pretty far from vintage United sides we saw under Fergie. We're not there yet under Ole either, but are getting closer

 

[Bilbo]

Firstly my whole point is that the improvement is not clear to see. We were on an upward trajectory with Mourinho before things imploded we finished the 2017/2018 season with 81 points and a +40 goal difference. For context we are on our way to finish this season with around 74 points and a +31 point difference.

But it seems everybody has forgot about that, it seems all that we remember is when Mourinho shitshow started and we were at our lowest point. As if that was our normal level and not the result of a toxic dressing room with a manager wanting to get himself sacked.

Suddenly the team became a total disaster and it needed a complete rebuild just because we were shit for 4 months, and then its a miracle Ole has "achieved some much" with that poor poor squad that needed "rebuilding".

Thats my main problem there, it seems Ole is not set up to the same standard the ones before were. He's been given a free pass with the whole rebuilding narrative which basically lower expectations and its calling for no preassure because we are on a "rebuild".

I dont remember LVG being justified by that, saying hey he inherited a shit team by Moyes lets give him a free pass he's "rebuilding". Nor the same with Mourinho. All previous managers have been demanded results. It should be the same with Ole, unfortunately his legend status here as a player has numb that fact.

Himself knows that and is happy to continue with that low expectation narrative which eases pressure on him. Hi latest statement about us shouldn't even be mentioned in as being on the title race is a proof of that.

The real difference between what Ole is doing and what Jose did do was that we now seem to be building something that will be sustainable.

We all knows Jose's modus operandi. Squeeze everything out of a squad, invest little to no time in anything other than the first team, and sign players that can do a job for him right now, with no view on resale value or longevity. He knows he isn't ever going to stay anywhere long so what happens 2 or 3 years down the line is of no concern to him. Its not fair to hate him for that because we knew exactly who we were getting into bed with.

There is still a demand for results under Ole. This is Manchester United after all, and half of our fanbase would have fired him last season had they held that power. I can't speak for anybody else, but its not because he is a former player that buys him more time. It is because he appears to be rebuilding a football club here. The youth system is flourishing. The mentality around the entire club seems to be a lot stronger. The wage bill is moving in the right direction. He is the first manager that we could honestly say would be leaving the club in a better position than he found it - any manager would be licking his lips at the prospect of getting his hands on this squad. It is not a free ride though - there has to be continued progress otherwise he wont get the time to finish his work here.

I realise that for posters such as yourself that doesn't see progress there really isn't any way to convince you of anything but I do believe that, back in the summer, if we were offered 2nd place in the league (above the champions) at this stage of the season then everybody would have been satisfied with that.

 

[SAFMUTD]

Chelsea spent buckets more and are below, Spurs still have a good squad and a more accomplished manager (and are still below), Leicester are the mark of consistency in the Premier League bar City of course, and they are also still below.

I did not say top 4 is the target. I said our aim in 2nd season should be pushing for silverware and materially closing the gap on the teams that have walked the league in the past 3 seasons. In that sense Ole does look like he is making progress.

Chelsea is totally underachieving thats why Lampard was sacked. Spurs is below what their quality should be and Leicester is overachieving in my opinion. Still I dont see why should we focus on them?

I do agree there's progress from Ole from his previous season. At least pointwise, but performance wise I dont think so. Again I think the best we have looked was that period after the covid break where we did really played great football. After that I think we have regresed.

We probably do but no manager is going to walk in being a proven winner. Whether you wanted Poch, or want Nagalsmann/Rose etc. they will all come with their own risks anyway. So you might as well trust in Ole while he has us on an upward trajectory at least. I too believe there will be a stage where he's taken us as far as he can but I'm not sure how far away that is.

I agree, every manager is a risk but I think we have seen enough from Ole to come to the conclusion that he's not going to be a worldclass manager. Theres no shame in that, very few are. But unfortunately for him and for us we are challenging worldclass managers, so I think we need to keep searching for one until we hit gold.

 

[SAFMUTD]

3+ goal hauls in PL this season:
Man Utd- 9
Liverpool- 7
City-6

Most goals in the league as well, but ofcourse, keep going on

We scored 1/3 of our goals in 2 games (Leeds and Southampton). Again Im not saying we are as boring as LVG football, all Im saying is when someone thinks on spectacular performances they dont think at us. We have really good entertaining games and some really dull boring games.

 

[SAFMUTD]

Its not easy to put on entertaining games this season. Even City are not as entertaining to watch as some claim. I would rather us draw bore against City, Chelsea and not lose than playing well and losing 2/3 nil like City did to Chelsea, Arsenal, Liverpool.

Sometimes you have to appreciate where you are, if you do not give the rivals an advantage by beating you, it might actually be the way to go.

Games like SU can happen though.

I totally agree, I rather win than being entertaining. Of course the magic duo is both, but I wouldnt label us as an spectacular team or anything.

 

[Ash_G]

Definitely. On balance I would say I'm pro solskjaer and think overall he is doing a very good job. To be so hindered by what seems like defensive basics is infuriating though and of course something ole needs to shoulder with the players. Even if we could just tighten up on set pieces and nothing else, it would earn us points. We are ridiculously weak at them

Agreed, definitely has to be some easy wins for us defensively out there.

I'm really not sure where I stand on Ole tbh. I think overall he's taken us forward and certainly want him to be successful but I have a nagging doubt that he might be the person to get us closer to City/Liverpool but am not convinced yet that he's the person to get us challenging/winning on all fronts.

I think there's clearly an issue in defence and is a range of issues from set pieces, how we invite pressure through our slow play out from the back and individual errors which he needs to solve and for as much flack as Lindelof gets compared to Maguire I do wonder if we got it wrong with him at the fee we paid. Clearly Ole didn't do the negotiating but presumably he knew the opportunity cost to our transfer budget if we signed Maguire. Maybe it is a case that if we got Maguire a faster partner he will look better but I do worry that as soon as he loses any pace he might get exposed at top level although we're not doing him many favours playing such a high line as we did against Everton.

I've been critical of our attack recently but do think that against Southampton and Everton there was a change in how we moved the ball but also importantly how Rashford/Greenwood were looking to create chances and space for others which is promising. If I'm going to say Ole has to take some of the blame for the defensive issues than need to be fair in crediting him with the attack- assuming it is a long term improvement!

Overall am not in a rush to change Ole or anything but do think he needs to find a way of ironing out these problems sooner rather than later. Have said it before but this season we've faced a Liverpool who are struggling with defensive injuries but also their attack hasn't clicked in the way we know it can, City are starting to run away with it and haven't had a striker all season. Sure Liverpool might not get back to the heights of recent seasons but I think it's safe to say they can play better than they have and you can imagine City will invest particularly in attack and so we need to not only catch up to where they are now (assuming they maintain their form which does seem to be a reasonable assumption) but where they're going and I think that will be a test for Ole.

 

[SAFMUTD]

We are improving, thats what matters

We suck at defending set pieces because we have a keeper that wont leave his line if his life depended on it, opposing teams knows this, so they can blast it into the 6 yard box where any touch becomes dangerous. Everyone struggles vs low blocks..and right now we happen to be the highest scores in the league so...

My main point is that improvement some talk about is not clear to see. Points wise is not there, and performance wise I don't see it either. I agree De Gea is a total liability in set pieces, but thats up to Ole, we have Henderson who is a much more aggressive keeper and would solve that problem.

Thats correct, we are the highest scorers in the league, 1/3 of those goals came from 2 games (Leeds and Southampton) though. But would you call us the best attack in the league? I think we have a good attack, but I dont fancy us as the best attack.

We've been in rebuild mode since Fergie because Moyes, LvG and Jose (and the board) kept fecking it up. Our average league position since Fergie left has been 5th, so its not exactly been all rosy the last couple of years. The teams we've put out under Moyes, LvG and Jose have been pretty far from vintage United sides we saw under Fergie. We're not there yet under Ole either, but are getting closer

Exactly, we been in rebuild mode since SAF left. But the difference is nobody stoped the expectations for the other managers under that premise. Everyone was asked to win, everyone but Ole. Who for some reason has been given a free pass because were in a rebuild.

 

[SAFMUTD]

The real difference between what Ole is doing and what Jose did do was that we now seem to be building something that will be sustainable.

We all knows Jose's modus operandi. Squeeze everything out of a squad, invest little to no time in anything other than the first team, and sign players that can do a job for him right now, with no view on resale value or longevity. He knows he isn't ever going to stay anywhere long so what happens 2 or 3 years down the line is of no concern to him. Its not fair to hate him for that because we knew exactly who we were getting into bed with.

There is still a demand for results under Ole. This is Manchester United after all, and half of our fanbase would have fired him last season had they held that power. I can't speak for anybody else, but its not because he is a former player that buys him more time. It is because he appears to be rebuilding a football club here. The youth system is flourishing. The mentality around the entire club seems to be a lot stronger. The wage bill is moving in the right direction. He is the first manager that we could honestly say would be leaving the club in a better position than he found it - any manager would be licking his lips at the prospect of getting his hands on this squad. It is not a free ride though - there has to be continued progress otherwise he wont get the time to finish his work here.

I realise that for posters such as yourself that doesn't see progress there really isn't any way to convince you of anything but I do believe that, back in the summer, if we were offered 2nd place in the league (above the champions) at this stage of the season then everybody would have been satisfied with that.

Hard to disagree with you, I do think he's building a team for the future. My point is that that team from the future should be managed by a wordclass manager. No disrespect to Ole but I dont think he is or will be worldclass.

My only comment is about the youth system flourishing I think is a narrative, we always have held a great youth system. Ole promoted Greenwood, but before him Mourinho promoted McTominay, before LVG promoted Rashford, and so on. I think no matter who the manager is we always had youth talent and is in the club DNA to give them chances.

 

[anant]

We scored 1/3 of our goals in 2 games (Leeds and Southampton). Again Im not saying we are as boring as LVG football, all Im saying is when someone thinks on spectacular performances they dont think at us. We have really good entertaining games and some really dull boring games.

But we've scored 3+ goals most number of times as well, so if we are boring then other teams are also boring, in which football might not be the sport for you.

Every team has dull boring games. You can say that City for most part of this season haven't been at their offensive best, but have taken the route of pragmatism. Pool look devoid of ideas now. Spurs, Arsenal, Chelsea all have been subpar on the entertainment front especially if you compare them vs us

 

[SAFMUTD]

But we've scored 3+ goals most number of times as well, so if we are boring then other teams are also boring, in which football might not be the sport for you.

Every team has dull boring games. You can say that City for most part of this season haven't been at their offensive best, but have taken the route of pragmatism. Pool look devoid of ideas now. Spurs, Arsenal, Chelsea all have been subpar on the entertainment front especially if you compare them vs us

I agree with you, Im not saying all the other teams are spectacular and we are a boredom fest. I wouldnt just label us as particullary entertaining that all, not at least to the level to say that its a highlight of Ole's ternure here. Like saying in a decade "remember how entertaining we were under Ole? those were the good days". Not even close.

 

[anant]

I agree with you, Im not saying all the other teams are spectacular and we are a boredom fest. I wouldnt just label us as particullary entertaining that all, not at least to the level to say that its a highlight of Ole's ternure here. Like saying in a decade "remember how entertaining we were under Ole? those were the good days". Not even close.

I mean if you don't find this season entertaining, then that's your opinion. Honestly, I feel we've been a good watch ever since the Arsenal loss at the very least.

https://www.premierleague.com/stats/top/clubs/big_chance_created?se=21

This is just the 3rd time in the last decade where we're having >2 big chances created per game. We're 2nd in this table.

Hell, had our finishing been slightly better this season, we'd be talking about how Ole made us exciting again

 

[SAFMUTD]

I mean if you don't find this season entertaining, then that's your opinion. Honestly, I feel we've been a good watch ever since the Arsenal loss at the very least.

https://www.premierleague.com/stats/top/clubs/big_chance_created?se=21

This is just the 3rd time in the last decade where we're having >2 big chances created per game. We're 2nd in this table.

Hell, had our finishing been slightly better this season, we'd be talking about how Ole made us exciting again

Well I think its a matter of opinion, I wouldnt call us a boring team but wouldnt call us spectacular either. But maybe Im setting the bar really high, for me spectacular is our 2007/2008 team, or Bayern under Heynckes, Barca under Pep or Liverpool with Klopp. Thats what I mean when I say its worthy to highlight a team for their spectacularity. I dont think we are even close to that level of spectacle currently.

 

[Chesterlestreet]

Entertainment?

Compared to Moyes, LVG and José?

Come the feck on - there's no debate to be had whatsoever.

You're feckin' lying if you say otherwise.

 

[SAFMUTD]

Entertainment?

Compared to Moyes, LVG and José?

Come the feck on - there's no debate to be had whatsoever.

You're feckin' lying if you say otherwise.

Youre setting the bar as low as it can get, specially LVG I would rather see informertials than those matches. Cant remember how many times I felt sleep watching us under LVG, the matches starting at 5-6 a.m. didnt help but feck me that was as boring as it can get.

 

[Chesterlestreet]

Youre setting the bar as low as it can get, specially LVG I would rather see informertials than those matches. Cant remember how many times I felt sleep watching us under LVG, the matches starting at 5-6 a.m. didnt help but feck me that was as boring as it can get.

Yeah, I don't disagree. It was horrible.

But the point was that Ole is considerably better in terms of sheer entertainment than any of his post-SAF counterparts.

He wins that one easily - in fact, he cuts off his predecessors' heads and pisses on 'em quite comfortably *. So, there's that.

Perhaps that says more about his predecessors than anything - but it's nevertheless 100% true.

* Sorry - I just watched Evil Dead II in order to determine whether it was worth watching again. The answer is - yeah, nah, depends. An answer which - curiously - is identical to the one I would give to the question: "Is Ole the right man for United?".

 

[golden_blunder]

We scored 1/3 of our goals in 2 games (Leeds and Southampton). Again Im not saying we are as boring as LVG football, all Im saying is when someone thinks on spectacular performances they dont think at us. We have really good entertaining games and some really dull boring games.

You really see the negative in everything. Every post.

Bet you would have had Fergie replaced after 2 or 3 seasons.