Unless he wins the league this season?
What were your actual expectations for this team this season back at the start of September, can I ask?
Ole Gunnar Solskjær | 2021/22 Discussion
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Unless he wins the league this season?
What were your actual expectations for this team this season back at the start of September, can I ask?
I think it is a feck up by the higher ups. Nothing Hendo has done so far has shown me he is anything close to be the keeper for a team that is challenging honours. He does not come out to catch the high balls. Yes he is quick off his line but DeGea is also extremely good in saving with his legs too. Harry Maguire would be very good in a team with a low black like a Jose team. Not in a team that is going to play a high line. The club has fecked up with a lot of transfers including DVB.
Now another OP said about AWB playing an Everton player online. It was Ole himself who said that we do not play the offside trap. I have always said that we need to hire a defensive coach and we have always fecked up on this.
As for Axel, everyone knows if he has a weakness that is his heading. I would rather play Lindelof instead of Axel. Matic was the only obvious choice, because (1) He is a good header of the ball.(2) He is experienced enough to try and play out the game. But Ole fecked up.
This is his last chance as other teams will get better as they have more experienced coaches and I still think we would struggle to hold onto the 2nd spot.
There is something called the Europa League. EL. That is what the OP meant by EL. The English Premier League is called the PL. Not EL.
It really pissed me off with his comment about us not being title chasers,
The majority of our players are in their prime and we have the biggest wage bill and yet Ole thinks we are not even title contenders.....that is a Mourinho comment if ever I have heard one.
I would like to see Ole reply to a question which asks if he can see us being title contenders while he is in charge but it seems that he finds it hard to address things directly and that is probably a weakness of his.
The majority of our players are in their prime and we have the biggest wage bill and yet Ole thinks we are not even title contenders.....that is a Mourinho comment if ever I have heard one.
I would like to see Ole reply to a question which asks if he can see us being title contenders while he is in charge but it seems that he finds it hard to address things directly and that is probably a weakness of his.
Ok I assumed he meant PL and obviously wasn't paying attention. No need to take the piss
That's even more ridiculous. A suggestion to get rid of a manager for not winning a Cup competition isn't even worth discussing.
Shut up
you weren't even talking about a title challenge at the start of the season FFS!I purposely didn't enter this thread because I knew it would be a shitshow with the usual agenda posters popping up, so I'll quickly say my piece and go.
We played well and even in those last 5-10 mins we were seeing it out to a decent degree. Axel cocked up with the foul but personally I don't put much blame on him. The free kick was in a pretty central spot and really should have been dealt with at source. And even then, DDG should have cleared it out rather than staying back. It was such a poor, poor goal to concede and really put a dampener on what was (save for about 5 stupid first half minutes) a really good and commanding performance. It felt like a loss, truth be told.
On Ole, I don't blame him for the sub. We have made that defensive change many a time in the past under him as well as under previous managers and it's almost worked out. Likewise other big teams have made that sort of substitution also to see out the game and waste time. And it seemed well on the way to working right up until that free kick. Anyone complaining about it is just being a captain hindsight, and is just reaching for someone, anyone even, to blame when the harsh reality is that this is why football is the way it is. Sometimes the cookie can crumble against us even when we've done pretty much everything we can to win. It's a sickener in the sense that it's 2 points dropped where we really shouldn't have dropped them and results like this really show to me why we're still the work in progress that we are. In some games our attack lets down our defence (Arsenal away), and in others like yesterday, our defence lets down our attack. Both don't come together often enough in the same performance and the team suffers as a result.
We also need to really improve on how we see out games. It cost us v Leicester. It almost cost us v Villa (if not for Bailly) and it cost us yesterday. The defence also needs to improve. I don't understand how we've regressed on that front to the extent that we have. Last season we were generally pretty damn good. We weren't conceding high quality chances and the number of chances we gave up were consistently low as well. It was a legitimately good defence. This season however, for one reason or another, it looks like they've all become strangers to one another and it just does not make any sense.
Overall, we've come on leaps and bounds since the turn of the year but we still have so much more to do. I still have faith in the process that we've undergone with Ole and I want to see what he can do with a fully complete squad at his disposal (I.e. give him the RW, CB, DM and striker that he needs). Top 4 with a points improvement was always my aim and we should hopefully have that by the season's end.
We played well and even in those last 5-10 mins we were seeing it out to a decent degree. Axel cocked up with the foul but personally I don't put much blame on him. The free kick was in a pretty central spot and really should have been dealt with at source. And even then, DDG should have cleared it out rather than staying back. It was such a poor, poor goal to concede and really put a dampener on what was (save for about 5 stupid first half minutes) a really good and commanding performance. It felt like a loss, truth be told.
On Ole, I don't blame him for the sub. We have made that defensive change many a time in the past under him as well as under previous managers and it's almost worked out. Likewise other big teams have made that sort of substitution also to see out the game and waste time. And it seemed well on the way to working right up until that free kick. Anyone complaining about it is just being a captain hindsight, and is just reaching for someone, anyone even, to blame when the harsh reality is that this is why football is the way it is. Sometimes the cookie can crumble against us even when we've done pretty much everything we can to win. It's a sickener in the sense that it's 2 points dropped where we really shouldn't have dropped them and results like this really show to me why we're still the work in progress that we are. In some games our attack lets down our defence (Arsenal away), and in others like yesterday, our defence lets down our attack. Both don't come together often enough in the same performance and the team suffers as a result.
We also need to really improve on how we see out games. It cost us v Leicester. It almost cost us v Villa (if not for Bailly) and it cost us yesterday. The defence also needs to improve. I don't understand how we've regressed on that front to the extent that we have. Last season we were generally pretty damn good. We weren't conceding high quality chances and the number of chances we gave up were consistently low as well. It was a legitimately good defence. This season however, for one reason or another, it looks like they've all become strangers to one another and it just does not make any sense.
Overall, we've come on leaps and bounds since the turn of the year but we still have so much more to do. I still have faith in the process that we've undergone with Ole and I want to see what he can do with a fully complete squad at his disposal (I.e. give him the RW, CB, DM and striker that he needs). Top 4 with a points improvement was always my aim and we should hopefully have that by the season's end.
It’s an interesting point about the defence regression and it’s hard to know why - what was worrying was the amount of times Richarlisson was open 1st half and making the run that DCL made for their 1st goal (G Nev even started calling it) but he luckily never got the pass. That ball to the outside shoulder of either CB is a serious problem for us. Personally I think it just highlights that AWB and Shaw were told to stay back last season a lot more and now, with them pushing on a bit more (and generally being much better offensively) you can see how much they cover both CBs.
I personally don’t think Ole’s the right guy but actually I thought we played pretty well against Everton. I guess there were a few keeper errors from both side but we caused them issues and pinned them in well in periods. For me ending up with a draw highlights what I’ve been banging on about since Mou which is that we need to evolve our midfield and learn how to manage games through possession. We don’t have to go extreme tiki taka but we should be able to keep possession for the dying minutes of a game against a team that really isn’t that great at pressing and were just lumping long balls in by the end.
I seriously do not understand why subs were made during injury time. It allows the ref to add 'any amount of mins' on top of the stipulated injury time at his discretion. If subs were made before the injury time. The ref will normally blow the freaking whistle on time. I realised this has happened for Ole subs on numerous cases and sadly this time around it comes back and bit us.
People saying we are on the right track and everything. Ole has been here for over 2 years now. How much time until we start demanding results?
I still see the same weakness we have since day 1, we are awful at set pieces. We don't know how to build from the back when facing high press and we struggle to create changes against low blocks.
I dont believe all the "rebuild" shit, I think that's a poor argument to buy time by lowering expectations. Let's say we are rebuilding so nothing can be expected as long as we're still in the rebuilding period.
If anything I think we've gone backwards performance wise since the end of last season. Yes we're on track to get more points but we don't dominate games, put our performances to the eye test and we have suffered every win besides Leeds and Southampton, even against the poorest opposition.
Players come and go in all seasons. So whats so different about the time with Ole that this is called a rebuild?
So I ask again, next season will we finally ask for a title again? Or is it going to be another "rebuild" year? Because this has to be the longest rebuild I've seen from a top club.
I still see the same weakness we have since day 1, we are awful at set pieces. We don't know how to build from the back when facing high press and we struggle to create changes against low blocks.
I dont believe all the "rebuild" shit, I think that's a poor argument to buy time by lowering expectations. Let's say we are rebuilding so nothing can be expected as long as we're still in the rebuilding period.
If anything I think we've gone backwards performance wise since the end of last season. Yes we're on track to get more points but we don't dominate games, put our performances to the eye test and we have suffered every win besides Leeds and Southampton, even against the poorest opposition.
Players come and go in all seasons. So whats so different about the time with Ole that this is called a rebuild?
So I ask again, next season will we finally ask for a title again? Or is it going to be another "rebuild" year? Because this has to be the longest rebuild I've seen from a top club.
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I blame him for the subs in general. We suck at holding on thin leads. It has been obvious for ages. Even the games we have held on, it is due to some last min oooh and phewwwws. And in this particular game, we had already blown a 2 goal lead. It was frickin obvious Everton was going for it and we were struggling to ward them off.
Our subs should have come on earlier( at least around 70-75 min mark) and try to get more goals. Yes, Martial and VDB are not great options to bring on this season, but Martial was coming off a brace in last game. He was well worth a run.
I have no idea why attacking subs were not made. No idea why Ole did not think it was worth scoring the 4th and 5th.
And that is completely on him. It was an idiotic decision. And this is not hindsight. Pretty much everyone wanted to see us go for the 4th goal.
Add to that, it is a stupid idea to make defensive subs in injury time, so obviously for time wasting. The ref is just going to add on time. It almost never has any useful impact.
But that does not mean I want Ole gone or I believe in "We will never win anything with Ole" nonsense. But he played a major part in that draw. Cost us 2 points.
He spent 150mil on that defence. On right back, left back and central defender. On top of that he has currently best English full back, 2 very good keepers and 2 good defenders in Lindelof and Bailly. So what makes you think that he will got it right? And how? You think that another defender of 60mil will resolve issues?
Games when we push forward like we did against Everton or Fulham show how wrong his transfers were. Maguire can't play in high line and Awb is useless in setup play.
We have good defence for playing deep and defensive but nearly every defender is good at it. Even defence with Smalling, Valencia, Young and Jones had good record when we played deep under Jose.
The ref is supposed to add on 30s for every sub no matter when it happens.
Do you have any stats to back this up or did you just invent it?
You’d think so, but they don’t follow that law closely seemingly, for example see our 9-0 game that should have had 5/6+ mins added time.
I don't think he got the defence right, although last season we had a good record, this year we seem more intent on attacking so their frailties in this system are showing. I think McGuire was an easy transfer for them to make. Jose had wanted him and the wouldn't get him, so think it was a very expensive two fingers up to Jose. He is not quick enough or mobile enough. AWB is improving offensively and Shaw has been great. It is the mobility of the CB's that worry me along with the injury record of the other CB's. Harry's partner is constantly changing. DDG might be a worry. He is a great shot stopper, but every man and his dog know if you send in crosses he can be got at.
I'm aware of that but the other poster was inferring that if you made subs before extra-time you'd get away with it somehow and if you made subs in extra time the ref would always add on time. They can be inconsistent in how they add time on but that claim doesn't ring true for me and just seems a weird thing to say.
I think the point he's making is this: Had we made our only second-half substitution in the 85th or 87th minute, would the referee have made the +4 a +5 when deciding on added time? Probably not. But since he added 4, he was definitely going to play until at least 94:30 with us making an injury time substitution, and the free kick was given at 94:20 I believe.
There were three goals (which are usually considered part of the game and don't go with added time, unless excessive celebrations occur) and four subs in the second half. We usually don't get 5 minutes for that.
As far as criticism goes, I think it's a poor argument to say that injury time subs are idiotic, since they can take a lot of momentum out of the attacking team chasing an equaliser. In terms of the timekeeping in this specific instance, I think there's some merit to the argument, but the criticism is obviously exacerbated by the fact that it was the subbed-on player that conceded the foul that ended up leading to the equaliser.
Well yes, it's results-based analysis again.
On the added time point they are supposed to add 30s per sub and 30s per goal (to cover celebrations).
I don't buy this argument that he'd add more time for a sub in added time than normal time at all.
The great thing about it is that nobody needs you to believe all this 'rebuild shit'. You don't need to do anything other than simply be sensible and reasonable.
It doesn't take a particularly high football IQ to understand that there are two teams in our league that have been playing at an extremely high level for the last few years. Ill give you the benefit of the doubt and assume that you've noticed that. No offence.
It also doesn't take a high football IQ to be aware that it takes time and patience to build a football team. With that in mind all that we need to do here is forget the rebuild cliches and simply ask ourselves whether this team is improving? Not game by game because progress isn't a straight line, but season by season.
So, are we improving? Of course we are. Two steps forward and one step back at times, but there is obvious progress there. Anyone who disagrees with that is IMO purely agenda driven and not worth listening to. Going forward do we have the right people in charge to recruit well and keep building on the layers? I certainly believe so given the evidence, but there is room for discussion there.
Finally, can he win the big trophies here? Right now, who knows. There will be doubts about that until the day he does it, but even the biggest Ole fan has never claimed that success was guaranteed. The view was always 'he's perfect for what we need right now but we may eventually need to look elsewhere if we stagnate'.
Ole will 100% survive a second trophy less season if things continue on this upwards trajectory. I dont think he would survive three though, so next season is (for me) the time where we can and should demand something more from him, some silverware, but right now I dont think any fan has any right to demand anything, unless we are all so short-sighted and entitled that we've chosen to forget what a shitshow this club has been before he arrived.
I don't think he specifically means that he'd add more time for the extra time sub than a regular time sub (ie 30 seconds for one and 60 seconds for the other), but if I were a ref and had three or four subs in a game that hasn't been notably bad in terms of shithousery and time-wasting, I'd be inclined to add four minutes (two minutes for the subs and then another two for general time-wasting, goals etc) rather than five, regardless of whether there had been three or four second-half subs. However, if there were three subs made and a fourth was then made in injury time, I'd definitely make sure to play to 94:30 so as to not expose myself to questions regarding my timekeeping.
So in essence, what I think he is trying to say is that even if Axel had been subbed on before the 90 minutes had been played, we would've seen 4 minutes go up on the 4th official's sign, but since he was subbed on in the 92nd minute the ref made sure to play to 94:30 at least, and the free kick was won at 94:xx.
I am still baffled with Ole's decision to sub Greenwood for Tuanzebe. This is not because he made the foul which led to the goal but because he allowed Everton to attack knowing full well we wont be able to counter them. Ole should have subbed on Matic as he can give the aerial presence and retain possession or the better choice would have been James and keep the formation but allow him to play more defensive role but counter when Everton throws more body upfront.
I see what you're saying but let's be honest. At that point it shouldn't even matter. Yes the sub allows more time but even then. We conceded a goal from yet another set piece, this one from the halfway line, just about the easiest set piece you could wish to defend against. He could have brought on that lad that had the Please buy Rooney sign, and with 90 seconds left, it shouldn't have mattered. It was a criminal goal, a week after Sheffield United got a set piece goal and another shocker. Our defence has just lost all sense
Agreed, I don't think making the sub was the issue, loads of managers have done/do that, I think what is the bigger concern is the defensive frailties that continue to exist. Some of it is clearly the players and they shouldn't need telling to just keep the ball/slow it down etc but as you mention we also seem to have an issue with set pieces and how we set up in general which you can say Ole has to help the team improve on.
The eye test might be the worst criticism yet. Why based the teams progress off actual results, points or any form of data when we can instead simply judge it on the eye sight of people who spend most game complaining in the match day forum.
it's a realistic comment to be fair. Ole is always calm and measured and gives honest answers. I find the way he deals with the media to be authentic - nothing like Mourinho like you claim. We all know how Jose behaves and its not fitting of a manchester united manager.
Majority of players in their prime? Fernandes is the only player you could consider is of the age to be in their prime and actually performing / showing signs of improvement.
DDG / Maguire / Pogba / Lindelof / Fred / Shaw are the others that spring to mind of the age bracket to be considered in their e prime - but none are showing consistent form or have done for a few seasons. Decent players yes, but we have to set higher standard. Shaw of late is the exception to this - he's been really good lately
We have good players who can win us matches, but we're far from title challengers.
Rashford / Greenwood / Martial / AWB / McTominey are too young to be in their prime - they all need to improve, some massively to even be considered for a squad role here.
We have the biggest wage bill? That doesn't give you the right to challenge for league titles, it just means your being run by morons who think giving average players insanely high contracts they'll perform. That just illustrates what a joke of a chairman Woodward is. Not much thought has gone into footballing success behind the scenes, for years. Thats not Ole's fault cos this has happened consistently since Fergie's days. The common theme = Woodward an the Glazers.
Shut up
He predicted us to finish in 3rd so we're actually exceeding his expectations and he's still having a moan!
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Definitely. On balance I would say I'm pro solskjaer and think overall he is doing a very good job. To be so hindered by what seems like defensive basics is infuriating though and of course something ole needs to shoulder with the players. Even if we could just tighten up on set pieces and nothing else, it would earn us points. We are ridiculously weak at them
I agree the set piece defending was utter shambles and we have been unable to defend properly for years. There's two option to resolve this either we get a commanding goalie or a commanding defender.
I don't belive Henderson is a commanding goalie and the only thing he has over DDG is being English.
AWB failing to push up the field is because our defenders or goalie not communicating with each other. We need to fix ASAP. I still remember when a player was targeting Evra aerially and Vidic told him to move so he can challenge for the ball instead. Currently, no one is taking anyone is leading the defence .
30 goals conceded in 23 games, and people say we actually improved
With this manager it’s always been 1 step forward 2 steps back.
Ole out !
With this manager it’s always been 1 step forward 2 steps back.
Ole out !
He still needs to do better than finishing 2nd with 86 points 68 goals scored, 28 conceded. And win the Europa league.
30 goals conceded in 23 games, and people say we actually improved
With this manager it’s always been 1 step forward 2 steps back.
Ole out !
Literally the only stat you've got.
It doesn't take a lot of football IQ to see that we've been fighting for top 4 multiple seasons now.
It also doesn't take a lot of football IQ to understand this season is an anomaly and it's very difficult to judge if we're making progress.
It also doesn't take a lot of football IQ to notice I'm taking the piss with your condescending tone
We will place 2nd and have a shot at the EL and FA cup. That's not enough progress for me, unless we win something. I'm perfectly happy with giving him more time. He's not damaging the club with shit transfers (LVG) or disrespecting the club (Mourinho).
His recruitment is good enough where he'll be able to set up his successor for success if he doesn't win anything.
He seems clueless tactically. Other than that I've have nothing to complain about.
What will it take for him to make subs quicker in a game, feels like the only time he has done that this season is when we were 9-0 up against Southampton or maybe 6-2 against Leeds which is shocking
I haven't updated this since the Everton result, but this should show some of you that we are making progress. 44 points at 22 games in is the 2nd best season we've had since Sir Alex retired. This is a team that is still progressing, still getting better, it's taking time, it requires patience. But it's clear to anyone with eyes that we're going in the right direction. It's just taking time as we're so fecking slow in the transfer market.
| Games Played | 20-21 | 19-20 | 18-19 | 17-18 | 16-17 | 15-16 | 14-15 | 13-14 |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
16 | 33 | 24 | 26 | 35 | 27 | 29 | 31 | 25 |
17 | 36 | 25 | 26 | 38 | 30 | 29 | 32 | 28 |
18 | 37 | 25 | 29 | 41 | 33 | 29 | 35 | 31 |
19 | 40 | 28 | 32 | 42 | 36 | 30 | 36 | 34 |
20 | 40 | 31 | 35 | 43 | 39 | 33 | 37 | 34 |
21 | 41 | 31 | 38 | 44 | 40 | 34 | 37 | 37 |
22 | 44 | 34 | 41 | 47 | 41 | 37 | 40 | 37 |
Literally the only stat you've got.
Its disgrace that he uses such a minor stat to have a go at Ole.
Firstly my whole point is that the improvement is not clear to see. We were on an upward trajectory with Mourinho before things imploded we finished the 2017/2018 season with 81 points and a +40 goal difference. For context we are on our way to finish this season with around 74 points and a +31 point difference.
But it seems everybody has forgot about that, it seems all that we remember is when Mourinho shitshow started and we were at our lowest point. As if that was our normal level and not the result of a toxic dressing room with a manager wanting to get himself sacked.
Suddenly the team became a total disaster and it needed a complete rebuild just because we were shit for 4 months, and then its a miracle Ole has "achieved some much" with that poor poor squad that needed "rebuilding".
Thats my main problem there, it seems Ole is not set up to the same standard the ones before were. He's been given a free pass with the whole rebuilding narrative which basically lower expectations and its calling for no preassure because we are on a "rebuild".
I dont remember LVG being justified by that, saying hey he inherited a shit team by Moyes lets give him a free pass he's "rebuilding". Nor the same with Mourinho. All previous managers have been demanded results. It should be the same with Ole, unfortunately his legend status here as a player has numb that fact.
Himself knows that and is happy to continue with that low expectation narrative which eases pressure on him. Hi latest statement about us shouldn't even be mentioned in as being on the title race is a proof of that.
I do not think it's wise to compare point tally's across different seasons because no 2 seasons are comparable in competition. It just pans out in a way where relative performance can only be made to their peers in that season alone.
With that in mind I think its worth evaluating Ole on his targets. I doubted Ole too and to an extent I still do, but in his second full season he might well close the gap materially on Liverpool and City. That undeniably would mark better progress than Jose, who finished a good 20+ points behind City in the season he got 2nd.
Sure if Ole ends up with a similar distance then I agree he'd have achieved no more than Jose.
My memory of Jose (apart from 3 months of excitement when we got him and the sun was shining) was boring as feck and going no where even when we did win, it’s light years away to where we are now no matter how much you want to compare points across seasons
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