Ole Gunnar Solskjær | 2021/22 Discussion

[UNITED ACADEMY]

No one knows if making substitute decisions will win or lose us games obviously but by bringing on Martial who has been by far our most under preforming starting 11 player and moving Pogba from his best position doesn't strike me as a great tactical decision. Pogba has been winning us points playing from there so why move him to accommodate Martial? Do you think it was an effective decision when we had a straight swap for McT in Matic or VDB leaving Pogba to do what he does best? Pogba was very good in the first half but wasn't as effective in second. Why was that?

Like what you said, no one knows whether it will win or lose us games, the moaning is about us not winning the game so your opinion is only based on your preference choice without consider whether it can win us the game and whether Ole‘s decision was zero sense decision or a decision that have valid reason.

How was Pogba more effective in 1st half than 2nd half? That’s just your opinion without anything to back it up, I can also make claim he didn’t show much difference performance between first and second half.

Pogba won us those points playing against Fulham, Burnley even the fa cup Liverpool playing in double pivot. The manager wants to be more attacking because Arteta decided to play more defensive/counter in that match like Fulham and Burnley so he had valid reason with Martial subs whether you agree and disagree that’s your opinion but in logical reason, there is a valid reason to bring goal scorer instead of another midfielder if the opposition team decided to approach the game in counter attacking approach.

I hardly made a bold statement saying Saka and Tierney are 2 of Arsenal's most influencial players. I think it's pretty obvious. Bruno and Rashford as you say have definitely been our 2 best players this season but yesterday it wasn't clicking for them just like it hasn't for the last 3 or 4 PL matches. Bruno yesterday was seeing the red mist and was lucky he wasn't red carded and in general was very ineffective and Rashford was having another terrible game. Should they be untouchable? Or should Ole have tried something else instead of trying to beat the same old tired donkey?

Rashford’s poor performance yesterday wasn’t down to his general play, if anything his general play was the main reason why he managed to got himself in lot of dangerous moments and offered lot of threat in arsenal defense, the downplay in his performance yesterday was down to his decision making in the final third. Swapping him earlier on doesn’t mean the bench players will be able to offer better threats in build up play against arsenal defense. Ole had valid reason to put more faith in him which later on being subbed off so not like he was untouchable.

Bruno has assets in his set pieces, set pieces could be the big difference as game changer. Ole had valid reason to keep him on. Both him and Rashford had shown some poor games before but proven somehow managed to make something out of nothing to get goal or assist as winning goal.

Like I said before, the moaning is about us not winning the game so your opinion is only based on your preference choice without consider whether it can win us the game and whether Ole‘s decision was zero sense decision or a decision that have valid reason.

 

[Red00012]

His contract expires in March of 2022, so if they don't extend him before the end of the season, they have to let him go and find a new manager.

Ed about to go all Asset protection on Ole

 

[Mainoldo]

Ed about to go all Asset protection on Ole

Phil Jones it. Incase Chelsea sack Tuchel and try think they can get Ole on the cheap.

Not on Ed’s watch.

 

[FatherWolff]

Meh, couldn't really care less about Poch. He wouldn't have been near the top of my list to replace Ole. I think sometimes there's certain posters who misconstrue the "knives being out" with criticism. At the end of the day, there's been some ridiculous OTT praise at times too, so the hyperbole and dramatics work both ways. I haven't felt the need to criticise him after the last two games, but I can see why some have and I have no problem with it.

My expectations at the start of the season under Ole was a comfortable top four finish and a good cup run. Crashing out of the CL - considering the position we were in - was fairly shambolic. It's not worth annihilating him over but nor should it be conveniently swept under the rug and excused. We were never going to win the league and reality was always going to set in. Now we have to make sure we don't fall into a slump as the league is tight and unforgiving this season. I have reservations about him and I think we can do better but right now, he's fine. I can acknowledge the good he's done but I also won't pretend he hasn't shown limitations so far.

I think it is a big difference with posters passing justified Criticism and people spreading negativity and hate. Criticism is open for discussion and debate, but the endless post with closed endings are a different gravy. They slowly come out every time we loose or even if we draw. The simplicity of the conclusions show the same character as those of conspiracy theories, and rely on non factual “truth” followed by false conclusions. If I had the time I could quote many many posts like this the past week. They have been hiding under a rock for a while, but now we are down to second place, and it is building again.
I know it goes with the territory having a global and large fan base, but do we want it? Is this how Man Utd fans behave? I guess I’m getting old. But I want to preserve our self respect. This is not the worst place. Most are good posters, and we have a few loud ones. But it is our fan base who post hatred on Twitter. Make racist threats on Instagram and so on. I know we can’t take responsibility for other people actions, but it does actually reflect on us all. What we can do is take our culture back as a fan base. Think about our rhetoric. Yes Martiall has played bad and Ole might have/could have done something else. And it’s fine to criticise. But it’s not what I’m talking about. Therefore I will make posts like. You do know the team only has time to do recovery between matches? Maybe you think I’m wrong, but it is the way I see it across several platforms.

 

[Bobcat]

Tbf, we are much better to watch than under Jose, that's not even debatable. I don't really think Ole has done much wrong lately, it's our forwards who are all woefully out of form at the same time. Plenty of investment is still needed, unfortunately. I still have reservations about him ,but right now, our forwards are having a mare.

Pretty much this.
The last 12 league games:

Rashford: 5 goals, 2 assist
Greenwood: 0 goals, 0 assist, he last scored in the league vs WHU in December
Marital: 2 goals, 3 assist

 

[Robbie Boy]

I think it is a big difference with posters passing justified Criticism and people spreading negativity and hate. Criticism is open for discussion and debate, but the endless post with closed endings are a different gravy. They slowly come out every time we loose or even if we draw. The simplicity of the conclusions show the same character as those of conspiracy theories, and rely on non factual “truth” followed by false conclusions. If I had the time I could quote many many posts like this the past week. They have been hiding under a rock for a while, but now we are down to second place, and it is building again.
I know it goes with the territory having a global and large fan base, but do we want it? Is this how Man Utd fans behave? I guess I’m getting old. But I want to preserve our self respect. This is not the worst place. Most are good posters, and we have a few loud ones. But it is our fan base who post hatred on Twitter. Make racist threats on Instagram and so on. I know we can’t take responsibility for other people actions, but it does actually reflect on us all. What we can do is take our culture back as a fan base. Think about our rhetoric. Yes Martiall has played bad and Ole might have/could have done something else. And it’s fine to criticise. But it’s not what I’m talking about. Therefore I will make posts like. You do know the team only has time to do recovery between matches? Maybe you think I’m wrong, but it is the way I see it across several platforms.

Every single fan base has idiotic fans, I mean that's normal. You are seeing things from a blinkered perspective as you are so deeply entrenched in the 'side' you have chosen. For me, the stauch 'Ole ins' and 'Ole outs' lack any semblance of objectivity and froth at the mouth at the first sign of positivity/negativity, depending on their 'side'. By the way, I absolutely abhore both sets of terminology, but that's what the posters want to be called. For me, you are certainly an 'Ole in' and I've genuinely never seen you in a thread not related in some way to Ole. I've seen you become fairly enraged at the first sign of critique.

You can make out that all the 'Ole ins' are great posters and ever so rational. The fact is, they're not. Plenty are wummy characters who have very little to add to the debate other than to ridicule other people's opinions. And not just the 'loud ones' - I've seen plenty of good posts met with green smiles etc. as they don't want to tackle the points made, they would rather ridicule and play the 'top red' card. Plenty of the 'in' crowd go missing during a bad run and come back loud and obnoxious after a win. They also feel they are somehow 'better fans' and question other fans dedication, all because some ask questions of Ole. And no, I'm not just talking about 'loud' posters, I'm talking about about fair balanced opinions. There's plenty of examples if you wish to look and that behaviour is hardly conducive to a good discussion.

As I said, you are far too entrenched in your ideologies that you will see things from your blinkered perspective. For me, it's very much both sides responsible for the constant bickering. There's some great opinions from both perspectives, for the most part. However, I find the posters too entrenched in a 'side' simply refuse to listen or try take on board a differing opinion. That behaviour just causes an endless loop of 'told you so' and snidey little comments after we win/lose/draw.

I've also noticed some are far too protective of Ole and even if someone dares to praise another manager in a totally non-Ole related thread, they often get met with childish responses like 'oh great another Ole out thread' - like seriously? Grow up. The whole world doesn't revolve around Ole ffs. And come on, racism on Twitter? Not really similar to even the 'loud Ole out posters' ffs. This place would be a whole lot better if people didn't pick a side and could just be objective. He's not doing a terrible job but nor is he doing a tremendous job. Maybe just listen to what others say and take some contrasting opinions on board. It's not a badge of honour to run around screaming your 'Ole in' - plenty will see that as a warning sign of someone who has made their mind up and won't listen to a contrasting opinion. You may not like it but there's very fair criticisms and questions to be asked of Ole. Why not ignore who you perceive to be the 'loud' posters and focus on conversing with the rational ones. Coming in making snidey comments makes you equally as bad as the ones you seem to despise.

 

[FatherWolff]

Every single fan base has idiotic fans, I mean that's normal. You are seeing things from a blinkered perspective as you are so deeply entrenched in the 'side' you have chosen. For me, the stauch 'Ole ins' and 'Ole outs' lack any semblance of objectivity and froth at the mouth at the first sign of positivity/negativity, depending on their 'side'. By the way, I absolutely abhore both sets of terminology, but that's what the posters want to be called. For me, you are certainly an 'Ole in' and I've genuinely never seen you in a thread not related in some way to Ole. I've seen you become fairly enraged at the first sign of critique.

You can make out that all the 'Ole ins' are great posters and ever so rational. The fact is, they're not. Plenty are wummy characters who have very little to add to the debate other than to ridicule other people's opinions. And not just the 'loud ones' - I've seen plenty of good posts met with green smiles etc. as they don't want to tackle the points made, they would rather ridicule and play the 'top red' card. Plenty of the 'in' crowd go missing during a bad run and come back loud and obnoxious after a win. They also feel they are somehow 'better fans' and question other fans dedication, all because some ask questions of Ole. And no, I'm not just talking about 'loud' posters, I'm talking about about fair balanced opinions. There's plenty of examples if you wish to look and that behaviour is hardly conducive to a good discussion.

As I said, you are far too entrenched in your ideologies that you will see things from your blinkered perspective. For me, it's very much both sides responsible for the constant bickering. There's some great opinions from both perspectives, for the most part. However, I find the posters too entrenched in a 'side' simply refuse to listen or try take on board a differing opinion. That behaviour just causes an endless loop of 'told you so' and snidey little comments after we win/lose/draw.

I've also noticed some are far too protective of Ole and even if someone dares to praise another manager in a totally non-Ole related thread, they often get met with childish responses like 'oh great another Ole out thread' - like seriously? Grow up. The whole world doesn't revolve around Ole ffs. And come on, racism on Twitter? Not really similar to even the 'loud Ole out posters' ffs. This place would be a whole lot better if people didn't pick a side and could just be objective. He's not doing a terrible job but nor is he doing a tremendous job. Maybe just listen to what others say and take some contrasting opinions on board. It's not a badge of honour to run around screaming your 'Ole in' - plenty will see that as a warning sign of someone who has made their mind up and won't listen to a contrasting opinion. You may not like it but there's very fair criticisms and questions to be asked of Ole. Why not ignore who you perceive to be the 'loud' posters and focus on conversing with the rational ones. Coming in making snidey comments makes you equally as bad as the ones you seem to despise.

Fair play, you haven’t understood what I’m trying to say at all. Of course I am Ole in. Have been all the way. I see what he is trying to do. I also see how the team is evolving. Do I blame people for not seeing the same? Not agreeing? No. I don’t post much, but I do read a lot. And mostly read the posters I think knows their football. Both criticism and more in depth analysis. Right now it is about the football. The Ole in or out debate is for may.

No, this doesn’t go around at every football club. A few, yes. But the tone of debate is very different, but again, that wasn’t my point. For people to go out and step over the line they are most surely part of an environment that allows them to do so. Fan cams, Twitter or any place isn’t a separate environment when it comes to being a Man Utd fan. This place has cleaned up a lot and rules are clear and for all. But the rhetoric is there, with closed endings and not open for debate. The only possible way to debate is confronting. From my perspective I see the connection through all platforms. Where rules are not forced like here, it is down right ugly. And if you want to do something about it, you start with culture.
Maybe we just see both football and the world in a very different way. But I have no problem handling a loss. Neither Ole getting the sack if we stop progressing.
Think we have reached the end of our debate. New important game tomorrow!

 

[Robbie Boy]

Fair play, you haven’t understood what I’m trying to say at all. Of course I am Ole in. Have been all the way. I see what he is trying to do. I also see how the team is evolving. Do I blame people for not seeing the same? Not agreeing? No. I don’t post much, but I do read a lot. And mostly read the posters I think knows their football. Both criticism and more in depth analysis. Right now it is about the football. The Ole in or out debate is for may.

No, this doesn’t go around at every football club. A few, yes. But the tone of debate is very different, but again, that wasn’t my point. For people to go out and step over the line they are most surely part of an environment that allows them to do so. Fan cams, Twitter or any place isn’t a separate environment when it comes to being a Man Utd fan. This place has cleaned up a lot and rules are clear and for all. But the rhetoric is there, with closed endings and not open for debate. The only possible way to debate is confronting. From my perspective I see the connection through all platforms. Where rules are not forced like here, it is down right ugly. And if you want to do something about it, you start with culture.
Maybe we just see both football and the world in a very different way. But I have no problem handling a loss. Neither Ole getting the sack if we stop progressing.
Think we have reached the end of our debate. New important game tomorrow!

Exactly, get back on track tomorrow night.

 

[Robbie Boy]

@FatherWolff Just for the record, it was you totally missing the point. The overarching point is that you and plenty of other 'Ole in' guys, act as snidey and wummy as the big evil 'Ole outs'. Obviously you're 'Ole in' ffs, I wasn't obviously questioning that

I attribute the 'Ole in' and 'Ole out' monikers to the small hardcore fans for both sides. These posters aren't worth conversing with. There's plenty that support Ole but don't want to be labelled 'Ole in' and can be objective and not entrenched in an ideology. They're worth conversing with. Labelling yourself 'Ole in' or 'Ole out' is seen as a negative to the majority. Why not just be objective. That's the point, both sides are fecking tedious beyond belief.

 

[Silverman]

I don't think Ole is the man for the job so the best way to part company is to let his contract run out. It saves a club legend from a lot of embarrassment from getting 'sacked' which is best for all parties.
Sadly don't see that happening.

 

[FatherWolff]

@FatherWolff Just for the record, it was you totally missing the point. The overarching point is that you and plenty of other 'Ole in' guys, act as snidey and wummy as the big evil 'Ole outs'. Obviously you're 'Ole in' ffs, I wasn't obviously questioning that

I attribute the 'Ole in' and 'Ole out' monikers to the small hardcore fans for both sides. These posters aren't worth conversing with. There's plenty that support Ole but don't want to be labelled 'Ole in' and can be objective and not entrenched in an ideology. They're worth conversing with. Labelling yourself 'Ole in' or 'Ole out' is seen as a negative to the majority. Why not just be objective. That's the point, both sides are fecking tedious beyond belief.

And we differ on opinion once again Like I said in early December. Let’s see where we are in January. And I’m saying now, let’s wait till may. Stop with the negative rhetoric that can’t be documented and analyse the football instead. If you don’t think there is a connection between rhetoric and behaviour, it is fine by me. But you won’t stop me calling it out. And my objective opinion is that we are progressing and doing a fine job. Nothing progress in straight lines, and where some see Ole as not reactive enough, I see a very cool manager who are on top of things. One example is the complaint on subs. No other team has scores more winners from subs. Another is goals and creating chances. Only Liverpool has scores more goals, and that is while our frontline is massively out of shape. All good things comes to those who wait, as we have seen over and over again. We are progressing, and that is all I demand. Bumps in the road I expect. Hope I’m done defending myself now Have a good day, and a good match tomorrow! We might even win!

 

[romufc]

I don't think Ole is the man for the job so the best way to part company is to let his contract run out. It saves a club legend from a lot of embarrassment from getting 'sacked' which is best for all parties.
Sadly don't see that happening.

Depends what you classify the job to be?

When he was hired the job was to rebuild - a 3 year plan and he is in the 2nd year. He is doing that, which was part of the job.

Play better football, reset the club culture, team bond, challenge the top 2.

It was in year 3 where we are meant to challenge for the title.

Ole signed a 2 year deal which is running out, so they probably have a look at it at the end of the season.

 

[Robbie Boy]

And we differ on opinion once again Like I said in early December. Let’s see where we are in January. And I’m saying now, let’s wait till may. Stop with the negative rhetoric that can’t be documented and analyse the football instead. If you don’t think there is a connection between rhetoric and behaviour, it is fine by me. But you won’t stop me calling it out. And my objective opinion is that we are progressing and doing a fine job. Nothing progress in straight lines, and where some see Ole as not reactive enough, I see a very cool manager who are on top of things. One example is the complaint on subs. No other team has scores more winners from subs. Another is goals and creating chances. Only Liverpool has scores more goals, and that is while our frontline is massively out of shape. All good things comes to those who wait, as we have seen over and over again. We are progressing, and that is all I demand. Bumps in the road I expect. Hope I’m done defending myself now Have a good day, and a good match tomorrow! We might even win!

Why are you telling me all this? For me, he's doing an ok job.

My point is that you don't need to label yourself 'Ole in' - it's not seen as a positive moniker just as 'Ole out' isn't. Why not just post like you've done above and be open to changing your opinion based on what happens. Being part of the 'Ole in' or 'Ole out' group just means you're never really open to changing your opinion and your mind is made up. Posting your opinions about him is fine. My point is that I've seen you and plenty of other 'Ole in' act extremely snidey and condescending. These are things you guys slag off the 'Ole out' group about. If everyone just sticks to rational debate and opinons, then this thread would be so much better. Forcing opinions down other peoples throats and being totally convinced you're right and they're wrong, makes for monotonous, inane bullshit which leads to bickering.

As you said, it's not a closed case and the debate will rumble on. But that's it, the debate is healthy and often differing opinions can be quite interesting, especially the ones backed up by fact. But the childish 'Ole in/out' camps make it insufferable at times. Instead of saying oh look at me I'm Ole in, say you THINK he's doing a good job and are backing him. However you will revise that opinon if needs be. There's far too much spin and propaganda in here from both sides.

 

[Olecurls99]

Top 4 is the absolute best we can do under Ole. Give it another season and people will be utterly fed-up.

Consistently top 4. You wouldn't take that considering what has come before Ole from supposed better managers? I assure you I won't get fed up with being consistently top 4.

 

[Olecurls99]

How long has Ole been here now? Apart from being a good counter attacking team, which id argue we already were, what has he actually improved from a coaching perspective.

We were winning games we shouldn't have, we were over performing according to our xg. We just aren't coached well enough, when players aren't scoring wonder goals or individual brilliance, we extremely struggle to score

The question now is, what is he actually here to do? To galvanise the squad? Improve the mentality? He's already done all that. We are certainly never winning a league title with him when there is simply just far better coaches than him.

Simply far better coaches huh. Like Mourinho eh. Do you think he'd come back to take us for another 50 million? Have a word with yourself will ya.

 

[rotherham_red]

His contract expires in March of 2022, so if they don't extend him before the end of the season, they have to let him go and find a new manager.

Not really. He's said himself he doesn't want to think about the contract until the season ends.

Managers aren't players. You don't get transfer fees for them and they aren't really reflected in the accounts as an asset, so there's no extra inherent value in renewing terms to protect the asset etc, like a player would.

We'll see where we end up once the season ends. For what it's worth, I think if we get top 4 and finish on 10+ more points than we got last season his job is guaranteed into next season irrespective of trophies etc.

 

[Infra-red]

His contract expires in March of 2022, so if they don't extend him before the end of the season, they have to let him go and find a new manager.

It's Ed Woodward - we know exactly what he'll do: give Ole a contract extension and fire him shortly afterwards.

 

[rotherham_red]

How long has Ole been here now? Apart from being a good counter attacking team, which id argue we already were, what has he actually improved from a coaching perspective.

We were winning games we shouldn't have, we were over performing according to our xg. We just aren't coached well enough, when players aren't scoring wonder goals or individual brilliance, we extremely struggle to score

The question now is, what is he actually here to do? To galvanise the squad? Improve the mentality? He's already done all that. We are certainly never winning a league title with him when there is simply just far better coaches than him.

We're creating more, we're keeping more possession and we're on the whole scoring more than we did under Jose. We're also a team that has 4 pretty large holes in the First XI and squad (that's just under half of the outfield positions if maths isn't your strong point) so as a result, we're quite disjointed and imbalanced.

Also, let's not forget that of Jose's team (I'm counting those players he actually wanted and not those he wanted to bin off) only DDG and Lindelof are here. The likes of Fred, McTominay, Rashford, Martial and Pogba would have been squad players or gone completely. We also haven't really bought that many players over the course of the two seasons that Ole has had. 4 in his first season and 3 in his second (I'm not counting Pellistri or Diallo as they are seen as longer term projects and haven't made an appearance as yet). At this stage, Jose had 8 and LvG had 14. Jose and LvG were given the chance to mould their squads in their image. Ole really hasn't. He's been more focused on shipping out the deadwood which everyone wanted Jose and LvG to do, but they never did. So any incomings he has made, has always been from a weakened position. Now, once summer rolls around, he'll finally be able to add to the squad from a position that is somewhat equivalent to Jose and LvG, because Romero, Rojo, TFM, Mata, and likely Lingard + Jones, will be gone from the squad. We'll finally see what a fully formed team that Ole has built will be able to do. Just bringing two of the 4 priority positions would improve us markedly.

So, considering that he came into a team that was 7th and closer to relegation than it was to the top in terms of points and has built around the players who the previous manager didn't particularly rate, I'd say the progression is apparent for all to see.

 

[KiD MoYeS]

We're creating more, we're keeping more possession and we're on the whole scoring more than we did under Jose. We're also a team that has 4 pretty large holes in the First XI and squad (that's just under half of the outfield positions if maths isn't your strong point) so as a result, we're quite disjointed and imbalanced.

Also, let's not forget that of Jose's team (I'm counting those players he actually wanted and not those he wanted to bin off) only DDG and Lindelof are here. The likes of Fred, McTominay, Rashford, Martial and Pogba would have been squad players or gone completely. We also haven't really bought that many players over the course of the two seasons that Ole has had. 4 in his first season and 3 in his second (I'm not counting Pellistri or Diallo as they are seen as longer term projects and haven't made an appearance as yet). At this stage, Jose had 8 and LvG had 14. Jose and LvG were given the chance to mould their squads in their image. Ole really hasn't. He's been more focused on shipping out the deadwood which everyone wanted Jose and LvG to do, but they never did. So any incomings he has made, has always been from a weakened position. Now, once summer rolls around, he'll finally be able to add to the squad from a position that is somewhat equivalent to Jose and LvG, because Romero, Rojo, TFM, Mata, and likely Lingard + Jones, will be gone from the squad. We'll finally see what a fully formed team that Ole has built will be able to do. Just bringing two of the 4 priority positions would improve us markedly.

So, considering that he came into a team that was 7th and closer to relegation than it was to the top in terms of points and has built around the players who the previous manager didn't particularly rate, I'd say the progression is apparent for all to see.

I agree mostly with this post but I don't think Ole will necessarily be provided with the required signings to push on should he achieve top four this season, but that isn't his fault.

 

[rotherham_red]

I agree mostly with this post but I don't think Ole will necessarily be provided with the required signings to push on should he achieve top four this season, but that isn't his fault.

That's fair. If that is to be the case, then I agree with the sentiment of others, that he'll in all likelihood be a dead man walking.

Though I thought that was going to happen this time round as well after the horror show of a transfer window we had, and he and the team confounded my low expectations, so who knows.

 

[Womp]

Simply far better coaches huh. Like Mourinho eh. Do you think he'd come back to take us for another 50 million? Have a word with yourself will ya.

Did not mention Mourinho at all, but sure. What a terrible post. How about you name the managers who are dominating this league who we need to compete with who are clearly far better coaches than Ole?

 

[Womp]

We're creating more, we're keeping more possession and we're on the whole scoring more than we did under Jose. We're also a team that has 4 pretty large holes in the First XI and squad (that's just under half of the outfield positions if maths isn't your strong point) so as a result, we're quite disjointed and imbalanced.

Also, let's not forget that of Jose's team (I'm counting those players he actually wanted and not those he wanted to bin off) only DDG and Lindelof are here. The likes of Fred, McTominay, Rashford, Martial and Pogba would have been squad players or gone completely. We also haven't really bought that many players over the course of the two seasons that Ole has had. 4 in his first season and 3 in his second (I'm not counting Pellistri or Diallo as they are seen as longer term projects and haven't made an appearance as yet). At this stage, Jose had 8 and LvG had 14. Jose and LvG were given the chance to mould their squads in their image. Ole really hasn't. He's been more focused on shipping out the deadwood which everyone wanted Jose and LvG to do, but they never did. So any incomings he has made, has always been from a weakened position. Now, once summer rolls around, he'll finally be able to add to the squad from a position that is somewhat equivalent to Jose and LvG, because Romero, Rojo, TFM, Mata, and likely Lingard + Jones, will be gone from the squad. We'll finally see what a fully formed team that Ole has built will be able to do. Just bringing two of the 4 priority positions would improve us markedly.

So, considering that he came into a team that was 7th and closer to relegation than it was to the top in terms of points and has built around the players who the previous manager didn't particularly rate, I'd say the progression is apparent for all to see.

Yes, but how much of that is down to coaching rather than just an improvement of the quality of players. We were about the same as a Jose team before Bruno came in. You can't rely on individual brilliance to top Klopp and Pep, it's not possible. Has he improved the team? I'd say yes, the mentality has improved and we are better at counter attacking. Have we made clear improvements in movement, triangles, breaking down deep defences, runs in behind etc. the harder aspects of the game to coach? I would say no.

He will improve the team if given time, but it's been two years and I haven't seen nearly enough to suggest it will ever be enough of an improvement to win us the major trophies due to the superior coaching in the league and in Europe.

It doesn't take two years to start seeing some good football. As i've said in the past - you need great players to win titles, you don't necessarily need great players to start seeing changes in style of play. Klopp's Liverpool team were shite when he first joined, they were playing some great stuff though - just weren't winning enough due to the quality of players. You could see what Pep was trying to do with a 70 year old defence. Even Rodgers at Leicester you can see now. Hassenhuttl at Southampton. I think people need to come to terms with the fact that this is just the style of play we will play under Ole. Maybe with some improved players - and if you think that is enough to bridge the gap to the big two, then all power to you, but I don't think it'll be nearly enough.

 

[croadyman]

Obviously Ole won't say it in public but he will be fuming that the scousers & Brighton have done two shrewd deals for such unbelievable value as well which makes it sting even more

 

[macheda14]

Obviously Ole won't say it in public but he will be fuming that the scousers & Brighton have done two shrewd deals for such unbelievable value as well which makes it sting even more

Will he? The scousers have bought two decent enough cbs and Brighton have brought in a player we decided against.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

Obviously Ole won't say it in public but he will be fuming that the scousers & Brighton have done two shrewd deals for such unbelievable value as well which makes it sting even more

Ole clearly doesn’t want to buy for the sake of buying, who could he bring in during Jan that he’d actually want?
Liverpool have bought back up, I don’t think Ole wants that, in fact it seems he wants rid of back up players.

 

[croadyman]

Ole clearly doesn’t want to buy for the sake of buying, who could he bring in during Jan that he’d actually want?
Liverpool have bought back up, I don’t think Ole wants that, in fact it seems he wants rid of back up players.

Surely it was no issue bringing in Caceido with such a low transfer fee involved and in regards to Kabak if he doesn't work out then they can always send him back in the summer was my point

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

Surely it was no issue bringing in Caceido with such a low transfer fee involved and in regards to Kabak if he doesn't work out then they can always send him back in the summer was my point

I don’t think he wants that at all. The bloated squad is something he’s trying to get away from.
He likely thinks his current midfield options are better or equal to that.

 

[croadyman]

I don’t think he wants that at all. The bloated squad is something he’s trying to get away from.

That may well be the case but who of the main matchday squad has he any intention of getting rid of in the summer, the reason that this squad is so bloated is because we have Woody & Judge giving out daft contracts to average players

 

[Zen86]

Obviously Ole won't say it in public but he will be fuming that the scousers & Brighton have done two shrewd deals for such unbelievable value as well which makes it sting even more

If we signed a 25 year old CB from the Championship, there would be uproar on here about how far standards had fallen, etc.

 

[croadyman]

If we signed a 25 year old CB from the Championship, there would be uproar on here about how far standards had fallen, etc.

That is a fair point but what happens if we have a Liverpool like injury crisis there outside of a transfer window

 

[Zen86]

That is a fair point but what happens if we have a Liverpool like injury crisis there outside of a transfer window

You can make that argument about any position, but we can’t stockpile players for every eventuality. Besides, we need a CB for the starting lineup, not another benchwarmer we’re nervous of putting in the team.

 

[croadyman]

You can make that argument about any position, but we can’t stockpile players for every eventuality. Besides, we need a CB for the starting lineup, not another benchwarmer we’re nervous of putting in the team.

The scary thing is I don't see it being any different in the summer when the best options will be available because we will have the COVID stuff rolled out again and be having this same discussion again this time next year

 

[Dve]

Agree to a certain extent.. It was nice to see Ole play Pogba higher on the pitch. Meaning he wanted us to play with higher ambitions offensively. It was a positive sign from Ole.

Something went wrong when McT went of and Pogba was moved further back on the pitch. He brought us something I’ve missed in our offensive play - more power in the space between McFeed and our attackers. Bruno can’t solve that alone.

It’s easy to criticise how Ole responded in retrospect, but it was a very tricky situation when McT had to stop. Understandable that Ole didn’t want to experiment adhoc against a team like Arsenal. He emphasised defensive stability and at the same time not reduce the number of match winners on the pitch. It was a good thought in theory, but I suppose he would have made another choice today.

Today I had chosen VDB. It would have been a very interesting setup, especially considering how the game developed. On the other side, replacing McT with VDB could possibly have resulted in to much offensive firepower on the pitch; more defensive instability or risk.

Yes, I agree with that, and I think Ole made the wrong sub. In the first half, Arsenal didn´t really press us very high on the pitch. After the break, however - when Artega saw Pogba being moved into a deeper role, he changed the tactics and moved his team higher up to put us under more pressure when playing out from the back. Because you can deal with that kind of pressure if you get the ball faster up the pitch, and if you have someone able to hold the ball up (preferable, centrally to create spaced on the sides), and no one can do that better than Pogba. Fernandes, on the other hand - for all the qualities he possesses, his hold up play is crap.

I think the second half could have looked much different if McTominay had stayed on and we had kept Pogba further up on the pitch. But when McTominay first went off, it would have been better to get in Matic, or maybe better, Donny. But Ole clearly does not trust Donny in a deep role (maybe he sees some weaknesses that we fans don´t see - e.g. his positioning), and Matic in fairness, has not been very good this season, so pros and cons, I guess.

And btw, I think Fernandes disability to receive and hold on to the ball with a man in his back, is part of the explanation why he hasn´t really shone against the better teams. In those games, I actually think Ole should consider moving Fernandes out on the right and instead play Pogba centrally.

 

[Olecurls99]

Did not mention Mourinho at all, but sure. What a terrible post. How about you name the managers who are dominating this league who we need to compete with who are clearly far better coaches than Ole?

So your great idea to win the league is to hire our fiercest rival's managers. Again, word with yourself will ya.

By the way, Pep has never proven himself to be anything other than a manager who wins things occasionally with the best groups of players by far in any situation. He's not a great coach. He's a very naughty boy.

 

[Ludens the Red]

We're creating more, we're keeping more possession and we're on the whole scoring more than we did under Jose. We're also a team that has 4 pretty large holes in the First XI and squad (that's just under half of the outfield positions if maths isn't your strong point) so as a result, we're quite disjointed and imbalanced.

Average possession per season
2016/2017 - Jose - 56.5%
2017/2018 - Jose - 54.8%
2019/2020 - Ole - 56.2%
2020/2021 - Ole - 54.1%

Average goals per game - Premier League
Jose - 1.6
Ole - 1.7

We are definitely disjointed and imbalanced and have been since 2013 to be fair.

Also, let's not forget that of Jose's team (I'm counting those players he actually wanted and not those he wanted to bin off) only DDG and Lindelof are here. The likes of Fred, McTominay, Rashford, Martial and Pogba would have been squad players or gone completely.

McTominay and Rashford would definitely not have been squad players or gone when Jose was here. Due to the fact Jose brought McTominay through and gave Rashford more appearances than any other player in the 2017/2018 season.

We also haven't really bought that many players over the course of the two seasons that Ole has had. 4 in his first season and 3 in his second (I'm not counting Pellistri or Diallo as they are seen as longer term projects and haven't made an appearance as yet). At this stage, Jose had 8 and LvG had 14.

Transfer spend by Jose in five windows - approx 360 million
Transfer spend by Ole in five windows - approx 295 million

Covid probably meant less spending in the summer to be fair.

Jose and LvG were given the chance to mould their squads in their image. Ole really hasn't. He's been more focused on shipping out the deadwood which everyone wanted Jose and LvG to do, but they never did. So any incomings he has made, has always been from a weakened position. Now, once summer rolls around, he'll finally be able to add to the squad from a position that is somewhat equivalent to Jose and LvG, because Romero, Rojo, TFM, Mata, and likely Lingard + Jones, will be gone from the squad. We'll finally see what a fully formed team that Ole has built will be able to do. Just bringing two of the 4 priority positions would improve us markedly.

Louis van Gaal sold or released the following players - Evans, Buttner, Rafael, Cleverley, Welbeck, Nani, van Persie, Hernandez, Lindegaard, Bebe, Fletcher, Anderson, Zaha, Ferdinand, Macheda, Vidic, Evra, Kagawa, Welbeck.

So, considering that he came into a team that was 7th and closer to relegation than it was to the top in terms of points and has built around the players who the previous manager didn't particularly rate, I'd say the progression is apparent for all to see.

Ah finally, you've said something that is factually true.

I keep responding to posts like this and I wanted Mourinho gone and am glad he's gone but this whole pretending we're a more aesthetically pleasing football team is just kind of fantasy. I think people are seeing what they want to believe. Nobody outside of Man United thinks Man United play good football. You'll see people talk about Brighton and Southampton playing good football but never Man United but for some strange reason half the people on here are convinced we're miles ahead of Mourinho's teams when it comes to style of play and attacking intent.

 

[Womp]

So your great idea to win the league is to hire our fiercest rival's managers. Again, word with yourself will ya.

By the way, Pep has never proven himself to be anything other than a manager who wins things occasionally with the best groups of players by far in any situation. He's not a great coach. He's a very naughty boy.

That's once again not what I said, no. We don't need to hire them, we need to hire managers who can coach to a level that can bridge that gap.

Also yes, Pep can't coach, him winning titles everywhere he goes, breaking records etc. is purely down to chance. His great players look even better because of his system, I can't say the same for ours

 

[Gazza]

I'm finding pretty much everything @Robbie Boy says in this thread to be spot on. And a refreshingly healthy tone he has, too. Nice to see.

Me, I have always been fairly consistent w/r/t Ole -- I don't think we have developed as much in playing style as we should have; I don't think the quality of football we play is in line with the quality of players we've got and I feel that top four should be a given at this point, rather than a big achievement; I feel our recent league position has flattered us in terms of how convincing we have looked in most games; he is a bit passive for my tastes in terms of in-game management.

Set against that, Ole has done fantastically well to trim the squad fat, which was an urgent priority and means we have a really strong base going forward; he clearly has a great rapport with the players and the staff/board; his positive mentality in press conferences shows the club in a good light and makes a refreshing change from the atmosphere under Mourinho/LVG/Moyes.

Ultimately, I do think we have hit a ceiling under Ole and that a mutual parting of the ways at season's end wouldn't be a bad thing if an outstanding manager candidate is gettable; I won't be spitting feathers or throwing shade at the man in the meantime or if it doesn't happen, as he has done okay and I can't be bothered to anyway. I certainly won't get on anyone's back if they strongly believe Ole is the man for the long haul, and I would hope nobody would look at the points above and say I am being harsh or unfair.

 

[RkkMan]

The scary thing is I don't see it being any different in the summer when the best options will be available because we will have the COVID stuff rolled out again and be having this same discussion again this time next year

Think it`ll be the case for every team bar City TBF
Madrid are(reportedly) struggling to get funds for Mbappe and its why they`re looking at freebies like Alaba, Barca needs no explanation, PSG themselves of all people are struggling to balance the books
Utd are still financially equipped to spend but I think we`ll look at cheap or free transfers it wont be our usual 150m spending(Ramos on a free for example hypothetically, Trippier with a year left on is deal will cost 15m max and maybe Soumare as the DM who also has a year left on his deal instead of Rice who will cost Maguire money) Sancho only happens if we manage to sell Pogba for a good fee

 

[Bebestation]

I'd personally be happy with 2nd.

There is progress in our results, our mentality, our squad structure etc.

Neither do we have a good enough first 11 to go unbeaten in the league but neither would any manager to win the title with CB'S like Lindelof and Bailly, strikers like Cavani and Martial, a CDM ageing like Matic and a RW like Greenwood.

So many weaknesses yet he has done a good job. We lost the game vs Sheffield arguably down to poor ref decisions rather than ourselves.

Let him address some weaknesses mention above and go for the title in the 3rd year.

I think he can scrape it this season because City are going through a tough game patch too but I'd be okay with Ole as long as we avoid the beaten club aspect that goes on a bad run.

 

[RedDevil@84]

I'd personally be happy with 2nd.

We are behind City and Pool in my eyes, in terms of squad. So 3rd is the logical position. But not far away from the top.