Ole Gunnar Solskjær | 2021/22 Discussion

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He can't control professional athletes being that idiotic and weak. He put a team out that should have been fine.

But what he can and has to do is give this team the kick up the backside it needs to ensure this is a blip.

Rashy and Tony need some time in the stands. Bruno needs to be told as brilliant as he has been, it's not a free pass to simply lose the ball everytime you touch it. Ole basically needs to be a manager.

We better look good against Arsenal.
 
Isotope said:
I'm just wondering, how Ole allows a player to be this lazy in games? I'm not talking about their bad forms which could happen even to the best.
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I think it's a lack of options. Martial, Rashford and Greenwood are all pretty much as bad as each other, so it's not like we can drop all three and make them earn their way back in. If it were just one we could as we now have Cavani, but after that we're playing the likes of James and Mata.

Rashford in particular I think would react well to being dropped for a while, but we simply don't have the ability to do so. Even with him being lazy and in poor form he's still going to be more likely to get us goals than anybody we replace him with.
 
MadDogg said:
I think it's a lack of options. Martial, Rashford and Greenwood are all pretty much as bad as each other, so it's not like we can drop all three and make them earn their way back in. If it were just one we could as we now have Cavani, but after that we're playing the likes of James and Mata.

Rashford in particular I think would react well to being dropped for a while, but we simply don't have the ability to do so. Even with him being lazy and in poor form he's still going to be more likely to get us goals than anybody we replace him with.
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Why do they need to be dropped? Can't he motivate or train them to work harder? I mean, those three used to show that they could work much harder.

Don't they fear Ole?
 
This was our big chance to win the title and looks like we are already blowing it, but still time to bounce back. Dropped to many annoying points now recently and City have catched us.
 
Isotope said:
Why do they need to be dropped? Can't he motivate or train them to work harder? I mean, those three used to show that they could work much harder.

Don't they fear Ole?
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Very hard when the individual in question is of a certain mentality and overpaid.

Posted about this before, and again, the average person will never understand this. Overpayment is an organization-killer. Notice how Greenwood started his slump after he got needlessly bumped up to 60k/w.
 
hungrywing said:
Very hard when the individual in question is of a certain mentality and overpaid.

Posted about this before, and again, the average person will never understand this. Overpayment is an organization-killer. Notice how Greenwood started his slump after he got needlessly bumped up to 60k/w.
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I can see that in Williams and DDG also. Jones suddenly got his injury routine after signing new contract.

Feels like it's never happened under Fergie.

True that I will never understand this. They only need to be competitive for 90 minutes in every 3-6 days, being watched by millions of people; while being paid extremely well to play sport they've dreamed of since they were kids.
 
Isotope said:
I can see that in Williams and DDG also. Jones suddenly got his injury routine after signing new contract.

Feels like it's never happened under Fergie.

True that I will never understand this. They only need to be competitive for 90 minutes in every 3-6 days, being watched by millions of people; while being paid extremely well to play sport they've dreamed of since they were kids.
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No worries. It's very difficult to understand. And it doesn't even manifest in the same way in every organization.

You're absolutely spot on with that feeling in the bolded part. There are reasons why SAF kept the first-teamers' wages within around 25% of each other (all between around 80k-115k)
 
Know some will say don't be so harsh but doesn't feel he has it to make those big substitutions when required
 
sizzling sausages said:
I find myself agreeing with your posts quite often so I'm interested, what have you seen that makes you think he's a top manager?
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Thanks.

I think he’s a top manger for United. We lost our spirit/culture since Moyes and I feel only the best managers can shift a culture.Many can get short term results but I can’t think of many that would have rebuilt us so well.

His man management and improvement of many players (tonight’s performance aside) is noticeably better than others we have had and of course the results have been outstanding over a calendar year.

Obviously people can choose to ignore this fact and I don’t think he’d be well suited to any other top club but that doesn’t bother me. I trust him.

Next season we will be in a position to win the league and so while I’m bitterly disappointed and annoyed at 3 points lost I get it. Teams sometimes lose. Liverpool lost to Burnley etc
UnofficialDevil said:
At home to a team that’s bottom of the league with 5 points in 19 games? Don’t think so.
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Yes Sir Alex has lost to relegation candidates many times. Why I don’t care is that he won many more than he lost and it’s the same reason I can be disappointed by this result but also move on.
 
I wonder how damaging this half a title challenge will turn out to be for United.

I don’t think Ole is good enough and have been a sceptic throughout, although you obviously tend not to go mental while winning.

At the same time, I’ve always maintained a healthy dose of cynicism about the manager, the players and the overall quality of our side.

I am not a stats sort of bloke, so will keep my observations to ‘the eye test’ – and it’s clear that we’re built on flimsy foundations.

We’ve shipped 27 league goals, four of which have been against Sheffield United, one of the worst PL sides ever. Our capacity for conceding absolutely farcical goals is unparalleled amongst top sides.

We don’t control matches, but rather player in fits and spurts, and when all your match winners are terrible in unison – like yesterday – there’s no hope that you can produce anything because there’s no consistent pressure to keep the opponent pinned back and under pressure.

And our forwards – wow. Martial and Rashford are fundamentally lazy. Cavani puts both to shame with his constant movement and desire to close down. They’re both bluffers who aren’t good enough to start for a top side.

To my mind, when you look at the structural problems, the consistent backing of under performing players and a blasé attitude towards the way we start matches every single time – it’s on the manager.

My concern is that this strange season, that sees us somehow in second despite the underlying signals being wretched, is going to sustain Solskjaer. We are going to waste more time and will be right back where we started once the teams around us get their acts together.
 
Ole outers coming from under their rocks. How predictable.

Last night was nothing to do with Ole. That team we started with is 10 times better than the Sheff Utd team. The players let him down massively. Hardly anyone turned up and put the effort in.
 
BenitoSTARR said:
Thanks.

I think he’s a top manger for United. We lost our spirit/culture since Moyes and I feel only the best managers can shift a culture.Many can get short term results but I can’t think of many that would have rebuilt us so well.

His man management and improvement of many players (tonight’s performance aside) is noticeably better than others we have had and of course the results have been outstanding over a calendar year.

Obviously people can choose to ignore this fact and I don’t think he’d be well suited to any other top club but that doesn’t bother me. I trust him.

Next season we will be in a position to win the league and so while I’m bitterly disappointed and annoyed at 3 points lost I get it. Teams sometimes lose. Liverpool lost to Burnley etc

Yes Sir Alex has lost to relegation candidates many times. Why I don’t care is that he won many more than he lost and it’s the same reason I can be disappointed by this result but also move on.
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What genuinely makes you say that though? He's been here a considerable amount of time now and we still don't even look to be in the same universe as coaching when compared to teams like City and Liverpool etc. I wouldn't count Leicester out too, they've established themselves as a team that will be there now, especially with Rodgers.

We just look to be the worst drilled of those teams - who I consider to be our main rivals for the title, this season and potentially next. Next season will be the same as this imo, we will be competing for top 4. If you were to give this City squad to Ole, I don't think they'd be looking nearly as good as they are. It's unfortunate - and had Pep/Klopp not been in England, I do think he would have a proper shot at the title, but that's the level we are competing with. A level that I don't think you can just match/better with purely buying superior players.
 
Nou_Camp99 said:
Ole outers coming from under their rocks. How predictable.

Last night was nothing to do with Ole. That team we started with is 10 times better than the Sheff Utd team. The players let him down massively. Hardly anyone turned up and put the effort in.
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We are consistently scraping past teams. We came unstuck yesterday as you can’t half arse it every week and keep winning.
 
His game management was shocking last night, he may as well not have even been there. Ole is good when things are ticking over but looks totally lost when they aren’t, last night was a chance for him to step up but he didn’t even try.

Some worrying signs and I can see us going on a poor run now, starting with another defeat against Arsenal and we might yo-yo in and out of top four for rest of season.
 
We definitely should have made changes earlier. Mata should have started. Axel off at half time with DVB on and Matic in defence. This is the game we needed a physical presence like Cavani in the box to challenge the Sheff Utd defenders. I’m a big fan of Ole but I am concerned about his slowness to make subs and change things when we are struggling during games.
 
Feed Me said:
I wonder how damaging this half a title challenge will turn out to be for United.

I don’t think Ole is good enough and have been a sceptic throughout, although you obviously tend not to go mental while winning.

At the same time, I’ve always maintained a healthy dose of cynicism about the manager, the players and the overall quality of our side.

I am not a stats sort of bloke, so will keep my observations to ‘the eye test’ – and it’s clear that we’re built on flimsy foundations.

We’ve shipped 27 league goals, four of which have been against Sheffield United, one of the worst PL sides ever. Our capacity for conceding absolutely farcical goals is unparalleled amongst top sides.

We don’t control matches, but rather player in fits and spurts, and when all your match winners are terrible in unison – like yesterday – there’s no hope that you can produce anything because there’s no consistent pressure to keep the opponent pinned back and under pressure.

And our forwards – wow. Martial and Rashford are fundamentally lazy. Cavani puts both to shame with his constant movement and desire to close down. They’re both bluffers who aren’t good enough to start for a top side.

To my mind, when you look at the structural problems, the consistent backing of under performing players and a blasé attitude towards the way we start matches every single time – it’s on the manager.

My concern is that this strange season, that sees us somehow in second despite the underlying signals being wretched, is going to sustain Solskjaer. We are going to waste more time and will be right back where we started once the teams around us get their acts together.
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Youve summed up my thoughts entirely.
 
BenitoSTARR said:
Yes Sir Alex has lost to relegation candidates many times. Why I don’t care is that he won many more than he lost and it’s the same reason I can be disappointed by this result but also move on.
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Ffs he is no Sir Alex. Sir Alex comparisons again.
 
b82REZ said:
@romufc How was that for game management?
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That was poor game management. I am not going to begin to defend Ole on that game.

Made all the wrong decisions. However, the players were rubbish too, if you cannot expect Telles, Matic, Tuanzebe to do a job against bottom of the table, clearly are not good enough.

Martial was a disgrace yesterday and has been this season, he should not be anywhere near the first team at the moment with that attitude.
 
romufc said:
That was poor game management. I am not going to begin to defend Ole on that game.

Made all the wrong decisions. However, the players were rubbish too, if you cannot expect Telles, Matic, Tuanzebe to do a job against bottom of the table, clearly are not good enough.

Martial was a disgrace yesterday and has been this season, he should not be anywhere near the first team at the moment with that attitude.
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This has always been my concern and a few exceptions aside, Ole keeps making the same mistakes.

The recent run was excellent but it has masked some pretty abject performances. What's important now is we don't do what we have historically under Ole after a bad result, and implode.
 
The late substitutions in games must be because Ole doesn't trust the squad players and last night proved he shouldn't.
 
Yet again no subs by Solskjaer. Pathetic display yesterday. He surely doesnt look like a champion coach not even trying to alter the course of the game.
 
b82REZ said:
This has always been my concern and a few exceptions aside, Ole keeps making the same mistakes.

The recent run was excellent but it has masked some pretty abject performances. What's important now is we don't do what we have historically under Ole after a bad result, and implode.
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This is a big concern. We normally have one bad result followed by 3/4 bad results. We have not learnt how to bounce back.

Every time Ole implodes the bounce back comes from pressure on his job, which is not sustainable.

Looks like the Arsenal game is going to be huge for that.

I have always said, even during the run, we need to pass the football better. There is too many times, each and every player is sloppy on the ball.
 
AshRK said:
I didn't mind him making the changes but he should not be making so much changes to the back. Also, he has to be ruthless when it comes to certain players. I don't know what else to blame him for. Players that were there today should do better.
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Bailly has a slight injury and maybe thought this was not the time to test Lindelof back with it being Sheffield United. I can understand why he did it, although I would have kept Shaw in. If it proved something it's that The Championship is Axel's level I am sorry to say. He couldn't even cope with bottom of the table team.
 
Honestly, people really need to compare our position with pre-season expectations rather than changing the expectations every 2nd week. If your expectation at the start of the season was 4th or something, we're still exceeding those and while yesterday's defeat is disappointing, it's part of the game. We aren't the finished product yet and you'll see us go through these dips here and there.

At the end of the day, we aren't going to be par with fan expectations every week. There'll be weeks where we exceed them and weeks where we fall short. It's how we bounce back that is important, and next 3 games are all crucial in determining our end of season objectives.

As far as yesterday goes, the only complain I have yesterday is not bringing in Mata for Martial and Greenwood's substitution. I can't really fault the manager for any of those 2 goals as it was stupidity from our players and nothing else
 
Beachryan said:
He can't control professional athletes being that idiotic and weak. He put a team out that should have been fine.

But what he can and has to do is give this team the kick up the backside it needs to ensure this is a blip.

Rashy and Tony need some time in the stands. Bruno needs to be told as brilliant as he has been, it's not a free pass to simply lose the ball everytime you touch it. Ole basically needs to be a manager.

We better look good against Arsenal.
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I agree that he can't control the individual mistakes or the lack of energy and that the team he put out was good enough. At the end of the day if he can't use the squad then we're not title challengers because City will definitely be using their squad.

I do think that Ole though can take some of the blame. Imo the play we saw was generally very similar to what we've seen over an extended period against teams that sit in. We can't break them down effectively, typically relying on exposing a mistake rather than actually opening them up, and our game plan relies on us scoring first and defensively we don't seem to be able to rely on that.

That has to be partly down to coaching unless a lot of players are disobeying instructions.

Just looking at the attack, putting Martial to one side as am not sure what is happening with him although appreciate Ole has to try playing him in to form, Rashford and Greenwood have been playing in the way they did quite often. Rashford seems to have no interest a lot of the time where he can't directly get a scoring chance, I really can't think of many chances he looks to create in general play, Greenwood I don't think is quite so bad in his attitude/approach but his output is just not there. Clearly he's young but he needs to look for the pass more.

Individual issues with players aside as a unit I also don't see how we play in a way to get the best out of the players. I don't see how we work the ball to put the front 3 in positions where they can get one on one with a defender. We don't seem to work as an attacking unit with runs of the ball to create space for others etc. Think it's odd as well that we don't really change it up. I know Mata didn't maintain the good form he started the season with but he's not had much of a look in since but actually maybe we could do with a player in the attack who actually keeps the ball moving well and who's first thought is to create. Doesn't have to be every game but I do think we could use him more.

I'm not Ole out or anything but I still think he's got a fair bit more work to do. It's great that we've been in the title conversation which he deserves credit for (although think it has got a bit ott, will be more interested to see where we are in 10 more games or so), but we can't forget that the context is that City have barely had a striker this season and Liverpool have had a combo of issues in defence and their attack misfiring. We've kept pace with them without having many injuries in our squad but you have to assume they will get better (as City are). If we are going to really be in the title race then I do think Ole has to find a way to get more out of us as an attacking unit and personally it doesn't really feel like we're making great strides there.
 
romufc said:
This is a big concern. We normally have one bad result followed by 3/4 bad results. We have not learnt how to bounce back.

Every time Ole implodes the bounce back comes from pressure on his job, which is not sustainable.

Looks like the Arsenal game is going to be huge for that.

I have always said, even during the run, we need to pass the football better. There is too many times, each and every player is sloppy on the ball.
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If we lose against Arsenal I think we'll go on a losing streak.

Personally think he'll play super conservative on Saturday and play for the draw, or try and nick it on the break. Arteta has had his number in their previous encounters so hopefully he's learnt from those games.
 
Bobcat said:
How? Tuanzebe, Matic and Telles aside, those were our regulars and fully capable of beating SU
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That team was more than capable of beating Sheffield. It's the usual revisionist and results based analysis being trotted out.

We had a bad night and couldn't seem to complete a pass in the final third. Whether it was complacency or not giving them enough respect or a hangover from the high of the cup win I'm not sure.

I'd expect us to bounce back against Arsenal and don't see any reason to believe the wheels are going to come off the wagon. It's clear that a title is probably beyond this team this season but we knew that already.
 
b82REZ said:
If we lose against Arsenal I think we'll go on a losing streak.

Personally think he'll play super conservative on Saturday and play for the draw, or try and nick it on the break. Arteta has had his number in their previous encounters so hopefully he's learnt from those games.
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Yep, we always seem to lose to Arsenal under Arteta. I hope we can bounce back but from previous experience, we will struggle for 3/4 games.
 
Withnail said:
That team was more than capable of beating Sheffield. It's the usual revisionist and results based analysis being trotted out.

We had a bad night and couldn't seem to complete a pass in the final third. Whether it was complacency or not giving them enough respect or a hangover from the high of the cup win I'm not sure.

I'd expect us to bounce back against Arsenal and don't see any reason to believe the wheels are going to come off the wagon. It's clear that a title is probably beyond this team this season but we knew that already.
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Complacency 100%. The talk of a title challenge has started to get into the heads of some of the players.
 
Womp said:
What genuinely makes you say that though? He's been here a considerable amount of time now and we still don't even look to be in the same universe as coaching when compared to teams like City and Liverpool etc. I wouldn't count Leicester out too, they've established themselves as a team that will be there now, especially with Rodgers.

We just look to be the worst drilled of those teams - who I consider to be our main rivals for the title, this season and potentially next. Next season will be the same as this imo, we will be competing for top 4. If you were to give this City squad to Ole, I don't think they'd be looking nearly as good as they are. It's unfortunate - and had Pep/Klopp not been in England, I do think he would have a proper shot at the title, but that's the level we are competing with. A level that I don't think you can just match/better with purely buying superior players.
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I think a big difference between us Liverpool and City is the squad peak years. We are now entering ours and so next year I would be disappointed if we don’t make a serious challenge. Liverpool’s starting XI is at the tail end, City have however refreshed well and regularly to maintain a good level.

We have improved our squad but still don’t have a clear outstanding RW and so creativity has been focused so much on our left flank that we’ve had to shift Rashford wide right to address it. I don’t blame Ole for that.

I actually think you can see the coaching in many games where we are passing ourselves out of difficult situations or switching play well. I think we have two clear styles depending on opponents rooted in the principles of quick transition where possible.

If we weren’t in the same universe the simple thing is we couldn’t be in the position we are in at the moment. Ole hasnt just got lucky for a calendar year in terms of performances and getting wins. If you are going to criticise you need to look at the overall trend which is upward.

The issue is that this squad isn’t ready for the challenge this season so when we went top of the league I knew the moment we went 2nd people would complain.

I don’t see an available manager that would have done as good a job of restoring the right culture to the club as Ole has done. That alone is top work.
Giggsyking said:
Ffs he is no Sir Alex. Sir Alex comparisons again.
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I wasn’t saying he was. The previous poster was comparing I pointed out we also lost these types of games under Sir Alex.
TheGame said:
He is making a comparison so say we have lost to relegation teams before not Sir Alex.
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Thank you.
 
Nou_Camp99 said:
Ole outers coming from under their rocks. How predictable.

Last night was nothing to do with Ole. That team we started with is 10 times better than the Sheff Utd team. The players let him down massively. Hardly anyone turned up and put the effort in.
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You are not serious, are you?
 
Same issues as usual - defensive organization, defending set-pieces, no ideas against against low block, late subs.

Martial was awful this season and doesn't deserve to start, while De Gea continue to desorganize the whole defence and make it look even more shaky.

Generally with Bruno in poor form the team looked very ordinary.
 
Again he missed a chance to react on refs. He just says ref made a mistake and that is it.
He simply must react and make a rant about it
 
Withnail said:
That team was more than capable of beating Sheffield. It's the usual revisionist and results based analysis being trotted out.

We had a bad night and couldn't seem to complete a pass in the final third. Whether it was complacency or not giving them enough respect or a hangover from the high of the cup win I'm not sure.

I'd expect us to bounce back against Arsenal and don't see any reason to believe the wheels are going to come off the wagon. It's clear that a title is probably beyond this team this season but we knew that already.
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Isn't that a problem in itself. That is a mindset and shouldn't be allowed to happen.
 
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