Isn't that fairly standard? None of the occasionals are exactly banging down the door. Weird criticism.
Ole Gunnar Solskjær | 2021/22 Discussion
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Isn't that fairly standard? None of the occasionals are exactly banging down the door. Weird criticism.
All I'm going to say to that poster is that if Ole and Utd had put in the performance that Klopp and Liverpool did against our "low block" (which wasn't in fact, a low block), this thread would have been utter carnage.
Some people on this site really don't have a clue.
In fact, we've rotated perfectly in the main (other than Rashford and Bruno). It's probably the biggest reason why we haven't had many injuries at all unlike most of the other teams in the league.
He didn't rotate enough last season understandably so, this hasn't been a problem in the current campaign at all.
I wish he could rotate Bruno and Rashford more though.
I wish he could rotate Bruno and Rashford more though.
Me too, wish hed put in VDB and Greenwood more maybe Diallo now
Yeah would be nice to see Bruno & Rashford on the bench for at least Sheffield Utd, find it highly unlikely they are there for Fulham on Weds particularly as we are likely to kick off in second maybe third place. This is another of the reasons why I was hoping for a more favourable FA Cup draw than the scousers so we could bench these two in a couple of matches in a row rather than just one.
I have no issues with his rotation. We need a settled team. If only I wish he would drop Rashford for a couple of games not to rest him but to let him know that he is not indispensable. I remember Rio saying that SAF threatened to drop Rooney if he did not pass the ball to RVP.
Ole has started the three Ms in 3 matches this season. (Brighton, Spurs and Sheffield). That's 3 matches out of 29. We need to go back to them.
The most scintillating football we've played has been with those 3 lads up top pressing high with a hounding midfield in behind and a high defensive line. I understand that Greenwood had a bad start to the season and we have needed to rotate, but for us to play the United way requires the kind of attacking football that I've only seen with MMM leading the line.
The most scintillating football we've played has been with those 3 lads up top pressing high with a hounding midfield in behind and a high defensive line. I understand that Greenwood had a bad start to the season and we have needed to rotate, but for us to play the United way requires the kind of attacking football that I've only seen with MMM leading the line.
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You mean the system which allowed them to absolutely dominate the league like few teams in the modern history and winning Champions league, also getting to the final the other year?
The team we have is with not more or less quality. It´s about the same. They just have a progressive manager. Obviously people will take this as a big criticism now we are first but unless we are top at the end of the season we it is not a huge success. I can believe though but I prefer not to get ahead of myself..
It´s not about possessionRecommend people obsessed with possession start to watch national teams from Eastern Europe!
How is it possible to claim a) we are the most inconsistent team? b) without a distinct play style relying on individual brillianceIT’S WRONG WRONG! Sounds like someone who try to convince other people the earth is flat!
What do you want to achieve with your negativity? Is it hard to enjoy our progress and the fact we are fighting for the title?
Sometimes it’s best to keep negativity for itself. Have no clue what good it brings. Stay positive and support your team. On this forum we support United.
Isn´t that obvious. If you look at world football and what styles dominated in Europe last decade or in the history. Believe it or not but teams having the most possession won games and titles. Because they were able to consistently create chances and control games not to hope for a one two chances to kill the game while defending and not conceding. Of course we´ve seen success with later too but now it´s the era of pressing teams with the ability to attack quick to put it like this.
I think we approach the attacking side of thigns pretty well, I have no problem to play high risk football and concede possession with starting attacks quickly but the problem lies when we are without the ball. We hardly have the most rock solid defense to play that way anyway. We struggle to press or counter press quick enough. In that regard we have a lot of room for improvement however after this much time I struggle to see the coaching team seeing hits as the biggest issue as it could have been worked on already..
It´s not about possessionRecommend people obsessed with possession start to watch national teams from Eastern Europe!
How is it possible to claim a) we are the most inconsistent team? b) without a distinct play style relying on individual brilliance
What do you want to achieve with your negativity? Is it hard to enjoy our progress and the fact we are fighting for the title?
Sometimes it’s best to keep negativity for itself. Have no clue what good it brings. Stay positive and support your team. On this forum we support United.
I agree with that, just hoped the progress could be quicker and certain areas of football would be approached faster, like our off the ball play which is below average not just among top teams but even among some midtable teams across Europe which can press and keep the ball better. Let´s just hope the new players can fix this and that the coaching staff work on this too..
So basically possession = sophisticated
We had plenty of possession under LVG, I never realised how sophisticated we must’ve been back then.
It's perfectly normal in my view, and I think Ole has managed the squad, minutes wise, brilliantly over a gruelling period.
No squad in world football, bar maybe City, have 20/21 interchangeable starters. You have your core group of 15/16 players you can rely on, and usually 3 or 4 players who are crucial.
I think sometimes you can question the tactics and lineup, but normally he gets the personell right.
That is why I said 'currently'. The opposition have since worked them out. The system worked perfectly before, it no longer does. Just like City's system has seen them go from 198 points in 2 seasons to just 81 last year.
We are progressing while they regress, yet you still want to heap praise on them while disregarding us and calling us inconsistent. Makes little sense.
I can agree that we shouldn't get ahead of ourselves, as I mentioned I think we are still behind them a little overall, but to ignore the progress is coming across as overly negative and/or agenda driven.
We’re top of the league like, not sure much needs to change
Agreed with some of this, I think it was to any member of the team not just Rooney
“If you can’t find rvp you can’t make the team”
rashford and Bruno need to shown that if high standards that they set themselves aren’t maintained then they will be rested, both probably need it as well to be fair
He rotated better than ANY premier League manager over the busy Xmas and into New Year period.
He managed to get MORE POINTS than any other manager in the first half of the campaign through his squad management.
But for you - a poster on the Caf - Ole hasn't done enough with squad rotation. Are you for fecking real?
I know we might not be top come 8pm tomorrow (hopefully back there by 10ish), but can’t believe we’re top! Absolutely buzzing, after such a poor start I can’t believe we’re up there fighting for the title, hope it rolls on for a while longer for us all to enjoy!
Sorry but can you read? Or you just select phrases which you like and fits your agenda.
I specifically mention these:
"it´s the era of pressing teams" or
"I have no problem to play high risk football and concede possession with starting attacks quickly but the problem lies when we are without the ball." or
"We struggle to press or counter press quick enough. In that regard we have a lot of room for improvement"
Possession without the right application is nothing. Barcelona´s Tiki taka is no longer effective enough, unless you have peak Messi, Xavi and Iniesta to open defenses like they did it. For today they would lack penetration. They would pass the ball forever. What´s the basics is the off the ball play. They would press really hard and win the ball quickly which is still essential and even more important today because that can win you some good position and generally more possession.
It´s not about keeping the ball forever like with Van Gaal. Under him we were woeful off the ball, we rather sat deep and then we passed it around deep with no penetration either! That´s a big difference mate. Spending time in opposition half launching attack after attack due to playing highline in other words, being first to every second ball etc - being proactive can give you hell lot of possession and penetration. But perhaps I didn´t express myself totally clear.
Its all about trust. With Bruno and Rashford, they have bad games but they still turn out to have game winning moments in games.
VDB was tried in some games and he hasn't really said, I must be picked. He is nice and tidy but at the moment he cannot get in the 10 position.
He was given an opportunity Vs West Ham and bottled it. Its not enough but, when Bruno came on the pitch, the team was lifted. I mean, even if one of us was a manager, if Bruno plays bad and we win, its better than VDB having 90% pass accuracy and not winning.
In terms of rotation, see the below table. This should give you a indication of our rotation policy compared to other clubs. Our next highest is De Gea on 71%, then Lindelof on 69% followed by McTominay and Fred on 61%.
% Played = Total % of Season they've completed
If you order the table by highest minutes, we have 4 players in the top 8. We rotate the rest of the team with the exception of these 4 ultimately.
| Club | Player Name | Mins (All Comps) | % Played |
|---|---|---|---|
Everton | Michael Keane | 1896 | 96% |
Leicester | James Justin | 2168 | 93% |
Manchester Utd | Harry Maguire | 2385 | 91% |
Leicester | Kasper Schmeichel | 2070 | 88% |
Leicester | Youri Tielemans | 2012 | 86% |
Liverpool | Andrew Robertson | 2103 | 83% |
Liverpool | Mohamed Salah | 2087 | 83% |
Everton | Dominic Calvert-Lewin | 1634 | 83% |
Everton | Abdoulaye Doucouré | 1621 | 82% |
Manchester Utd | Marcus Rashford | 2117 | 81% |
Manchester Utd | Bruno Fernandes | 2111 | 81% |
Chelsea | Mason Mount | 1957 | 81% |
Tottenham | Pierre-Emile Höjbjerg | 2245 | 80% |
Manchester Utd | Aaron Wan-Bissaka | 2093 | 80% |
Manchester City | Rodri | 2014 | 80% |
% Played = Total % of Season they've completed
If you order the table by highest minutes, we have 4 players in the top 8. We rotate the rest of the team with the exception of these 4 ultimately.
Im left with the question. Do you think we can? Is it down to management or down to player choices and ability? I can count a lot of pressers where this is addressed and a focal point. Maybe we are a couple of players short to get there? If I look at the Liverpool game, I thought passing was a big hindering having spells controlling the game, or even playing expansive. But that is what you get with the players on the pitch. Could we play Mata or/ and Matic? Maybe. But that bring our energy and tempo down. From my perspective and from what I have seen and heard this is work in progress and we are missing a few pieces
His own words. He doesn’t believe in a settled team this year. He believes in a bigger match fit squad du to the compressed season. Hang him for it in may. Or not. I believe he is right.
Leicester could be top tonight.
Go ruin someone else’s day! Don’t you have babies to scream at? Or children’s bicycles to vandalise?
If we win tomorrow we will go back top. Something to aim for. Chelsea could be right in the doldrums.
That’s more like it
We should brush Fulham aside - we really should.
It will be Ole's first real test.
But - seriously - if we want to hang in there, we really should beat Fulham (and preferably without too much trouble).
As for Chelsea and Leicester - who cares, really. We need to worry about Liverpool and City in the long run. Neither Chelsea nor Leicester will win this league (that's my - uneasy - prediction). Liverpool or City will - unless...
Fair enough. The opening statement slightly undermined the rest of the post by starting with one of those all the best teams have loads of possession type comments. We just need to be better with the ball. The main reason why we've looked quite toothless in recent games is that Bruno, Rashford, and Martial have been rather poor lately. We rely so heavily on these players, our form is very much dependent on how they're playing. Funnily enough, it's been Pogba who has stepped up and carried us in attack in the last few games.
As for pressing, there are posts on here which detail exactly what our strategy on this is and why we don't press teams all over the pitch. It's basically to bring the opposition out and open them up.
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You said it not me. Now we’re shifting tact to McFred ok.
- He plays McFred in most games it’s nothing to with pace.
- Wasn’t caught out but you know why they looked blunt on that move? Good defending. That’s why they didn’t get clear chances
- Bailly is faster I agree. He does not however alone wave a magic push up the pitch wand. We push up the pitch with Maguire and Lindelof all the time. I agree McFred isn’t going be the midfield to control games from an offensive point of view but you can control a game through a defensive performance. Football is the balance between both. Otherwise you’re Leeds.
- We didnt do as well first half but over the whole 90 we did. And I couldn’t care less what the score is 10-20mins when we get the result. We agree more on this point though.
- Dier is not any faster than Lindelof. It’s an awful example. Lindelof has not been beaten for pace this season. Not once.
- It absolutely is the script and was the script. Ride the storm counter. Then contain, counter and go for it. It’s the Ole template for big games. We kept a clean sheet because for all their attempts at attack they couldn’t break down a great defence.
- I think it was an appropriate and clever way to get around their press when needed. Without Pogba up top and wide we would have no aerial presence Cavani included. Cavani did not come on and win aerials. Once we’d tired them out a bit then our fitness showed through and we were able to take it to them a classic Ole tactic of this season.
- I think this is very much hindsight talking. I don’t know anyone who said before the game let’s go out and attack Liverpool.
- If I were to personally change one thing I would have put Martial at 9 and Rashford wide. Beyond that I think the rest worked as intended over the 90mins.
Out of interest where do you expect us to finish? Do you think we should be 1st end of season?
Of course we should beat them. It'll be tough though as they have managed to beat Leicester away, drew with Spurs away, held Liverpool to a draw at home and probably would have gotten something against Chelsea the weekend had it not been for the red card.
I expect it to be a tough game like the Burnley match but fancy us to do enough to nick it in a tight game. Our forwards need to be on their game.
It's difficult to control possession against quality teams because we just don't have the quality to match IMO. Pogba could give you more control in a double pivot but he's better suited to playing a more advanced role. McTominay and Fred have the energy and endeavour but don't have the craft and guile. Matic has the ability on the ball but doesn't have the mobility and tenacity. So until Solskjaer signs someone who is good on the ball in the double pivot who has the craft, guile and tenacity too we will continue to cede possession by virtue of the opposition having better players in the deeper midfield roles.
Solskjaer said in his post match interview after the Liverpool game, that the next time we come to Anfield, we will look to get on the ball and control possession better than we did. So that tells me that he's gonna sign someone for the deeper midfield role.
Believe or not, Ole's got a defined way of playing the game, which is to play a high tempo game with CBs pushed high and the fullbacks playing like wingers. His way of playing the game is very similar to how Klopp sets his team up. But the difference right now is that Solskjaer doesn't haven't the heavy lifters in the DM and CB roles and Klopp does/did with Fabinho and Van Dijk. Having two players in those roles with a similar profile to Van Dijk and Fabinho will allow us to play 20-30 yards higher up the pitch and create overloads and flood the oppononents 18 yard box which will make a huge difference and galvanize the whole collective.
Solskjaer said in his post match interview after the Liverpool game, that the next time we come to Anfield, we will look to get on the ball and control possession better than we did. So that tells me that he's gonna sign someone for the deeper midfield role.
Believe or not, Ole's got a defined way of playing the game, which is to play a high tempo game with CBs pushed high and the fullbacks playing like wingers. His way of playing the game is very similar to how Klopp sets his team up. But the difference right now is that Solskjaer doesn't haven't the heavy lifters in the DM and CB roles and Klopp does/did with Fabinho and Van Dijk. Having two players in those roles with a similar profile to Van Dijk and Fabinho will allow us to play 20-30 yards higher up the pitch and create overloads and flood the oppononents 18 yard box which will make a huge difference and galvanize the whole collective.
Without getting into a long list, I think there is a lot wrong with what you've said. Just to summarise a few points - he tends to play McFred in the bigger games, and often tests a more dynamic duo in others (Sheffield, Southampton, West Ham and WBA being examples). But equally, when playing McFred he tends to then ensure he plays the right players in the right areas. I take strong exception that the Anfield performance was a positive one, or that it was one that should have been deployed. Yes it worked to the plan, but as I said, the "plan" itself was focusing too much on the opponent. It had multiple players out of position on top of a defensive duo. You have boiled down the game like it was just 10-15 minutes which is a tad foolish to be frank.
Put it this way, the game against them this time went pretty much how the game went last year (1-1). We had 30 something % posession, 7-8 shots and set to contain them to try and go on the break. But last time they had a fully fit side, far more sharp and a packed stadium. This time it was an empty stadium, their attack is not half of what it was performance wise, they had 2 CMs in CB and we added Bruno Fernandes + Cavani to our ranks since. We made no step forward in that regard, and the approach to the game yes, worked to the plan, but it was not the right plan. Whilst either side would be happy with a point before the game, the crux of my point is how we approached it and our performance. We didn't really make any statement from a performance standpoint, far from. The only time I saw us press the goalkeeper was when Cavani was on.
You also mentioned its "hindsight" but it's not - I called the selection woeful before Kick Off, and knew we'd not get 3 points unless we created 1-2 moments max, and managed to take one. That for me is not a good game plan anymore, we cant surprise teams like that. That shows in the results - we are dogshite in our return vs the bigger sides as we try to play on the counter. Chelsea, City, Spurs, Arsenal all sussed that approach out and prepared for it before the Liverpool game. Obviously, Liverpool would have sussed that out too.
As for your q regarding where I expect us to finish - I would be happy if we ended top 4 and a materially closed gap between us and City/Liverpool. That doesn't change. However when we are 1st, in the mood we are in and the confidence that we have, and when Liverpool are where they are - I expect more in our approach. I never said Gung Ho, I never even said attacking football. But I do expect higher press, more taking the game to the opponent than what we saw, and players in the right positions.
why do people gripe about bruno not rotating when maguire plays record breaking amount of minutes, literally every minute bar one game in 18 months
Maguire has always played record breaking amount of minutes.. It’s not new. Also, we can’t afford to drop Bruno. Maybe today, but not in any game before. Our rotation is just fine.
To be fair to him it’s not like we have the squad depth of City and we seen against Watford how far off some of backup choices are. He rotates quite a lot but does it with only 18-19 players max. I feel he doesn’t trust the ability of the rest at this level
Imagine having fans half as good as our manager! Feck me that was an embarrassing match thread and Twitter feed
Not complaining so don’t think I am. I feel he makes the right changes most of the time but leaves them real late. Overall no complaints from me he has us above expectations in the league so I’m happy
The way he has handled pogba is itself worth keeping him here. Jose would have blown a gasket and we would have lost all the momentum. Well done Ole.
17 away league games unbeaten in the Premier League first United side to do that since famous treble-winning side in 1998/99.
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