Ole Gunnar Solskjær | 2021/22 Discussion

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We didn't deserve to lose last night, let alone lose by two goals. Comparing the two games against PSG to the two games from a couple of years ago, we're a miles better team now.
Not only we didnt deserve to lose, we really deserved to win imo. Take away the third goal cos thats injury time when were trying to push forward for an equaliser, but the important goals especially the second was avoidable (but weve been done by this quite a few times).

We created great chances to take the lead and we just couldnt convert. (not even half chances). Similar to Sevilla match, which we should have won.
 
Most managers are available if you really want them.

That doesn't answer the question. Klopp is available is he? He is the best manager. Is he available?

Are you that deluded to think that Klopp will leave Liverpool for Manutd?
 
So you missed the part where Rashford was injured/struggling for ten minutes and stopped tracking back entirely. Be had ten minutes into identify this and he didn't and it cost us.

I didn't miss it because it didn't happen. It was clear he was struggling but if he couldn't carry on he would have / should have gone down so play is stopped and we can make the change, he didn't.

There was one incident where the change to wing-backs yielded them a chance which DDG saved, from the resulting corner (i think) they scored. There were multiple times in the half when Rashford was a key element of countering them down that channel.
 
That doesn't answer the question. Klopp is available is he? He is the best manager. Is he available?

Are you that deluded to think that Klopp will leave Liverpool for Manutd?
It answers the question if you use your common sense alongside it. You've just insulted her and insulted your own intelligence by resorting to an unrealistic situation. Why are you so angry and worked up?
 
It answers the question if you use your common sense alongside it. You've just insulted her and insulted your own intelligence by resorting to an unrealistic situation. Why are you so angry and worked up?

I don't have common sense, why dont you tell me how it answers it? I am not angry, just frustrated by fans thinking just cause we are Manutd, we are entitled to something special.

We are a football club like every other, just because we are big commercially, doesnt mean we can bully clubs / managers.

Klopp has already said no to Manutd, what makes people think he will leave Liverpool where he has a connection with fans for Manutd?

If you applied common sense to that, you would realise, getting Klopp is not possible at the moment.
 
That doesn't answer the question. Klopp is available is he? He is the best manager. Is he available?

Are you that deluded to think that Klopp will leave Liverpool for Manutd?
He said most managers, not all. You've completely twisted his words. Every post I see of yours ends up with you being overly aggressive, chill out.
 
Is this an excuse? I don't quite understand. An inexperienced manager will make mistakes but he's got over 100 games as manager of the club now so when is he classed as no longer inexperienced?

Also I think every single united fan could see Fred needed subbing, yet with 5 subs available he didn't sub him. That was beyond inexperienced. A real basic failure.
Manchester United should have the best available manager, not somebody learning on the job. He's been a manager for ten years, he should have learnt something by now.
I agree it's no excuse. I didn't think he was good enough before last night, I would be very happy to see him replaced with a top manager befitting of us.

I'm just saying we've seen the same thing for two years now. He shown his naiveté in his first summer window, when he foolishly gutted the squad, losing Lukaku, Herrera, Fellaini, Sanchez without replacing them, benching Matic for Andreas, relying on Lingard for months on end, which almost cost us top 4. When you've seen all that happen, what else is there to say? He and Naïve go hand in hand.
 
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We should also expect to see less of them.
I thought after 2 years, he had finally learnt to make changes a lot sooner after the Southampton game, but still waiting until the 70th min to make a change with 5 subs on the bench, and Fred a red card waiting to happen, just shows he hasn't learnt a thing after all.
 
Pochettino springs to mind..

He's the best manager available? What credentials does he have to be the best available?

People complain about Ole not making subs, Spurs fans complained about the same thing 5 years into his reign.

I think we keep slipping into this, manager is the problem whereas really its the people making these decisions.

City prepared for Pep a year before getting him.

Rodgers had a style of football similar to Klopp, they replaced Rodgers with Klopp very early one.

United just end up making reactive decisions. This is what frustrates me the most, its oh Moyes didnt work, lets go LVG who is pass pass pass to pragmatic football to oh lets try bring Ole and Phelan and try to emulate Fergie.

Fergie football worked during his era, football has moved on, we need to move on and adapt.
 
Not to call out the poster who supported Ole’s decision to not sub off Fred (so I won’t use the reply function here), there is no reason whatsoever Matic and de Beek could not have done the job. Fred in that situation is preferred to start, but once the risk of a sending off was overwhelming evident, Ole needed to react to it. Doubts about Matic in general are valid, but we only needed 45 ministers from him and his experience would have been valuable. Donny is arguably an upgrade on Fred in the first place. And at that point Pogba coming on as a sub is hardly disastrous. Again, all in light of Fred being on extremely thin ice with the ref, and in truth having been wound up pretty tight by PSG shitbags. And we saw Fred being on the edge with a challenge, whom many here believe was perfectly legal, that didn’t need to be made and would have led to nothing even if the referee ignored it.

It was obvious Fred wasn’t going to see the full 90. Hundreds of posters here saw it coming. And if we all saw it coming, it was in fact coming. So then what we’re left with is whether we were better off with 10 men or with subbing Fred off for any of the three midfielders Ole had on the bench. It would be insanity to suggest that it would be.
 
It makes sense to conflate. I am surprised that you don't think being a man down doesn't make a difference to our overall attempt to come back into the game. We had our moments. But it is not like we had overwhelming dominant or something.

It makes no sense.

We had KEY moments. In those moments we lost the game. Fred should have been sent off in the first half, another key moment.

As I've said the swing of the game was lost in those moments. At the point Fred was sent off we were already losing and lost our positive moment in the game. We could have been 2 or 3 goals safe by that point, if our players executed and/or prevented goals.

Ole's decision wasn't a key moment in which the game was lost. Fred's awful touch and lunge has more of an effect than Ole not bringing him off. Why is the player himself free of blame for a red card when he should have been off for a headbutt anyway.

Ole not bringing him off was a poor oversight but the game was not lost at any moment because of his decision to or not.

It's just a lazy excuse for people who don't like him to beat him with a stick.
 
He's the best manager available? What credentials does he have to be the best available?

People complain about Ole not making subs, Spurs fans complained about the same thing 5 years into his reign.

I think we keep slipping into this, manager is the problem whereas really its the people making these decisions.

City prepared for Pep a year before getting him.

Rodgers had a style of football similar to Klopp, they replaced Rodgers with Klopp very early one.

United just end up making reactive decisions. This is what frustrates me the most, its oh Moyes didnt work, lets go LVG who is pass pass pass to pragmatic football to oh lets try bring Ole and Phelan and try to emulate Fergie.

Fergie football worked during his era, football has moved on, we need to move on and adapt.
You asked me who was available, Pochettino is a correct answer. If you asked me, who is the best manager we could possibly hire right now? Pochettino is still a lead candidate, but I can't say for sure that he's the best manager available.
 
To not sub Fred at half time has to be up there as one of the worse decisions I’ve ever seen. Even if it was simply to punish the player for doing something so stupid. He should have been sent off anyway.
We started the second half dominating and should have got our two goals, then sub fred.
It would have been seen as the right decision if martial wasn’t a bluffer, we were tearing PSG as we were set up with Fred, just needed the goals and then take him off.

I think Ole planned to take him off but PSG made 3 subs around that time so Ole waited to see how they’d set up before making our change but then we conceded from a scrappy corner and Fred had a harsh second yellow that changed everything.
 
It makes no sense.

We had KEY moments. In those moments we lost the game. Fred should have been sent off in the first half, another key moment.

As I've said the swing of the game was lost in those moments. At the point Fred was sent off we were already losing and lost our positive moment in the game. We could have been 2 or 3 goals safe by that point, if our players executed and/or prevented goals.

Ole's decision wasn't a key moment in which the game was lost. Fred's awful touch and lunge has more of an effect than Ole not bringing him off. Why is the player himself free of blame for a red card when he should have been off for a headbutt anyway.

Ole not bringing him off was a poor oversight but the game was not lost at any moment because of his decision to or not.

It's just a lazy excuse for people who don't like him to beat him with a stick.
So basically your point is we would have lost anyways, 10 men or 11 men on the field, because we had inefficient players on the pitch who couldn't finish their chances or create ones.
 
So basically your point is we would have lost anyways, 10 men or 11 men on the field, because we had inefficient players on the pitch who couldn't finish their chances or create ones.

You really gathered that from everything I've posted. Cracking. So basically . . . . you think Ole not subbing Fred is more important to winning a game than scoring or conceding.
 
You asked me who was available, Pochettino is a correct answer. If you asked me, who is the best manager we could possibly hire right now? Pochettino is still a lead candidate, but I can't say for sure that he's the best manager available.

This is the problem we have right now. Poch is the lead candidate because he does not have a job.

We always seem to react, get someone because he is available rather than have a plan. Ole was never in the plan, he got the job.

The plan was, Ole interim, hire DoF, get a manager. Instead we took the easy way out and gave Ole the job.

Ole should not have got this job in the first place. I don't want us to make the same mistake with Poch. If the club genuinely believe he is the man then its different.

It is clear they don't think that is the case though otherwise we would have got him in.

Liverpool believed Klopp was the man, he was available and they sacked Rodgers who the season before went on a title challenge.

It seems we will only sack Ole if we are in the relegation zone.
 
It makes no sense.

We had KEY moments. In those moments we lost the game. Fred should have been sent off in the first half, another key moment.

As I've said the swing of the game was lost in those moments. At the point Fred was sent off we were already losing and lost our positive moment in the game. We could have been 2 or 3 goals safe by that point, if our players executed and/or prevented goals.

Ole's decision wasn't a key moment in which the game was lost. Fred's awful touch and lunge has more of an effect than Ole not bringing him off. Why is the player himself free of blame for a red card when he should have been off for a headbutt anyway.

Ole not bringing him off was a poor oversight but the game was not lost at any moment because of his decision to or not.

It's just a lazy excuse for people who don't like him to beat him with a stick.
Why? It was a matter of when he got sent off, not if. It was obvious PSG would do everything in their power to exaggerate any contact involving Fred to get him sent off, with a ref who would be keen to correct his earlier mistake. We had VDB, Pogba, Matic on the bench. With the tie on a knife edge, to keep him on in those circumstances is bordering on negligence.

But i've seen him refuse to make subs for 2 years now, so I'm not surprised in the least.
 
I am not angry, just frustrated by fans thinking just cause we are Manutd, we are entitled to something special
This is Manchester United. We are "capable" of doing something special.

There. Fixed it for you. Don't think anyone feels entitled to anything. What we do know is the respect and strength the name of this club has. And that even when we're low, we still have humongous pulling power.

Not that hard to understand, is it?
 
Why? It was a matter of when he got sent off, not if. It was obvious PSG would do everything in their power to exaggerate any contact involving Fred to get him sent off, with a ref who would be keen to correct his earlier mistake. We had VDB, Pogba, Matic on the bench. With the tie on a knife edge, to keep him on in those circumstances is bordering on negligence.

Because there was no key moment. At what point in the circa 30 minutes between the first yellow and the red is THAT moment where Ole got it wrong?

When we are already 2-1 down after fluffing big chances and losing the spell we had, losing Fred was kicking us whilst we were down.

A key moment was Fred head butting a player, or another was Fred lunging in when he's already on a yellow. Why does the player not receive the blame here?

I agree the decision was negligence, that is not the argument. It is that it wasn't one of the key moments in which the game was lost, neither the red nor the 'moment' Ole didn't sub him.
 
This is Manchester United. We are "capable" of doing something special.

There. Fixed it for you. Don't think anyone feels entitled to anything. What we do know is the respect and strength the name of this club has. And that even when we're low, we still have humongous pulling power.

Not that hard to understand, is it?

Yes, 10 years ago.

Respect? What respect? Like the Respect Dortmund showed us in the summer? Or the respect Leicester showed us for Maguire?

The way we conduct business these days, clubs dont respect us. Klopp didn't want to sign for us because we tried to woo him with money rather than vision.

Halaand, Bellingham both went to Dortmund because of the vision.

In modern football the name means nothing, its all about who pays the most.

City and Chelsea have shown that name and respect does not matter.
 
This is the problem we have right now. Poch is the lead candidate because he does not have a job.

We always seem to react, get someone because he is available rather than have a plan. Ole was never in the plan, he got the job.

The plan was, Ole interim, hire DoF, get a manager. Instead we took the easy way out and gave Ole the job.

Ole should not have got this job in the first place. I don't want us to make the same mistake with Poch. If the club genuinely believe he is the man then its different.

It is clear they don't think that is the case though otherwise we would have got him in.

Liverpool believed Klopp was the man, he was available and they sacked Rodgers who the season before went on a title challenge.

It seems we will only sack Ole if we are in the relegation zone.
Liverpool also believed that Hodgson and Rodgers was the man before Klopp. Every successful club has made bad choices in recruitment, it's not exclusive to Man Utd. Bayern and Kovac, Juventus and Sarri, Barcelona and Setien, the list is endless. The key is to try again if it isn't working out. Pochettino wouldn't be a reactive choice, it makes a lot of sense given his talent, experience and history. Klopp had left Dortmund after an under performing season where they were 18th after 19 games, eventually finishing 7th, quite similar to Pochettino's last season, Liverpool saw past the last season and took a chance, it worked out perfectly. The Pochettino situation at the moment has parallels.
 
Liverpool also believed that Hodgson and Rodgers was the man before Klopp. Every successful club has made bad choices in recruitment, it's not exclusive to Man Utd. Bayern and Kovac, Juventus and Sarri, Barcelona and Setien, the list is endless. The key is to try again if it isn't working out. Pochettino wouldn't be a reactive choice, it makes a lot of sense given his talent, experience and history. Klopp had left Dortmund after an under performing season where they were 18th after 19 games, eventually finishing 7th, quite similar to Pochettino's last season, Liverpool saw past the last season and took a chance, it worked out perfectly. The Pochettino situation at the moment feels quite similar.

First thing I've read that's made me reconsider my stance on Poch tbh.
 
And what is they also make naive mistake or what if our strikers miss easy chances? Would we sack them too.
Martial is not good enough to be the main source of goals, he will score goals, but we cannot be relying on him. Our asses are being saved by the production of Bruno which has taken the focus off the front players, last night Bruno was not at his best, so it brought them back into focus. Every Tom, Dick and Harry has been saying we need another forward, you would hope a new manager would see this as well. Especially if he has been watching us from afar. I am not saying get rid of Martial, but he cannot seem to perform to the high consistency we are needing.
 
You really gathered that from everything I've posted. Cracking. So basically . . . . you think Ole not subbing Fred is more important to winning a game than scoring or conceding.
My point being, we were having problems with 11 men, but there was chance to comeback with 11 men. Once we were a man down, it made our job all the more tougher, if not impossible.
Ole could have avoided the situation by taking off Fred earlier. Because he was lucky to last the first half.

And just to be clear, I am not saying Ole out. But I see keeping on Fred as a costly mistake which subsequently resulted in diminishing our chances to come back into the game.
 
Martial is not good enough to be the main source of goals, he will score goals, but we cannot be relying on him. Our asses are being saved by the production of Bruno which has taken the focus off the front players, last night Bruno was not at his best, so it brought them back into focus. Every Tom, Dick and Harry has been saying we need another forward, you would hope a new manager would see this as well. Especially if he has been watching us from afar. I am not saying get rid of Martial, but he cannot seem to perform to the high consistency we are needing.
But that's my point how can we blame manager solely for that. I keep hearing Ole should go based on yesterday's loss which I don't understand. Ole has his flaws but players also have to take responsibility.

If we continue to give them free pass then irrespective of who the manager is we can never win major trophies. And as for needing another forward, well Ole also has been wanting another forward whether that is Haaland or sancho. There is a reason we signed ighalo and cavani because our board failed to get him his first choices. What makes you think the new manager will not have the same problem? You cannot blame Ole for not signing a forward or a right winger.
 
Liverpool also believed that Hodgson and Rodgers was the man before Klopp. Every successful club has made bad choices in recruitment, it's not exclusive to Man Utd. Bayern and Kovac, Juventus and Sarri, Barcelona and Setien, the list is endless. The key is to try again if it isn't working out. Pochettino wouldn't be a reactive choice, it makes a lot of sense given his talent, experience and history. Klopp had left Dortmund after an under performing season where they were 18th after 19 games, eventually finishing 7th, quite similar to Pochettino's last season, Liverpool saw past the last season and took a chance, it worked out perfectly. The Pochettino situation at the moment has parallels.

Yes, every club goes through bad recruitment. The clubs you have mentioned also make decisions to reverse those failings. Kovac was gone, Setien was gone, Sarri was gone.

Klopp still took them back to 7th unlike Poch, he was sacked. Klopp won them the league title and got them to a CL final against a very good Bayern team too.

Rodgers was gone after 8 games, 6 points of the top.

Klopp was available and Liverpool got him before anyone else came in, Poch has been available for a year now. If the club think he is the right man, then why is Poch not been hired?
 
My point being, we were having problems with 11 men, but there was chance to comeback with 11 men. Once we were a man down, it made our job all the more tougher, if not impossible.
Ole could have avoided the situation by taking off Fred earlier. Because he was lucky to last the first half.

And just to be clear, I am not saying Ole out. But I see keeping on Fred as a costly mistake which subsequently resulted in diminishing our chances to come back into the game.

I completely agree with everything you're saying. My point is simply that the game wasn't lost in that moment and criticism should not be taken away from the players that lost in those key moments.

It was an awful decision to not take him off, particularly in hindsight having not scored our big chances. I just don't think it can compare to the importance of other opportunities in the game that we lost.
 
I don't have common sense, why dont you tell me how it answers it? I am not angry, just frustrated by fans thinking just cause we are Manutd, we are entitled to something special.

We are a football club like every other, just because we are big commercially, doesnt mean we can bully clubs / managers.

Klopp has already said no to Manutd, what makes people think he will leave Liverpool where he has a connection with fans for Manutd?

If you applied common sense to that, you would realise, getting Klopp is not possible at the moment.
You're right, we aren't entitled to something special. Which is why we are Ole as manager.
 
Because there was no key moment. At what point in the circa 30 minutes between the first yellow and the red is THAT moment where Ole got it wrong?

When we are already 2-1 down after fluffing big chances and losing the spell we had, losing Fred was kicking us whilst we were down.

A key moment was Fred head butting a player, or another was Fred lunging in when he's already on a yellow. Why does the player not receive the blame here?

I agree the decision was negligence, that is not the argument. It is that it wasn't one of the key moments in which the game was lost, neither the red nor the 'moment' Ole didn't sub him.
I agree that the missed chances had a bigger swing in the match than Fred's red. I agree that Fred should be criticised for reacting vs. Paredes, it was stupid to take the bait. But it's that we shouldn't even be having this conversation. Knowing how PSG would act in the 2nd half, he had the direct opportunity to sub him at half-time yet chose not to, which further highlights his incompetence. If we're a goal down with 11 men, we can still come back, but being a man down too makes it an almost impossible task. That is on him.
 
Yes, 10 years ago.

Respect? What respect? Like the Respect Dortmund showed us in the summer? Or the respect Leicester showed us for Maguire?

The way we conduct business these days, clubs dont respect us. Klopp didn't want to sign for us because we tried to woo him with money rather than vision.

Halaand, Bellingham both went to Dortmund because of the vision.

In modern football the name means nothing, its all about who pays the most.

City and Chelsea have shown that name and respect does not matter.
It absolutely does matter. Which is why managers Ike Mourinho and LVG picked United. As it was an honour for them to manage such a huge club. It's why we keep signing big name players like Pogba and co despite often not being in the CL. It's why we're very rich and were trying to bring Bindesligas biggest talent in as opposed to our player wanting to go there.
 
I agree that the missed chances had a bigger swing in the match than Fred's red. I agree that Fred should be criticised for reacting vs. Paredes, it was stupid to take the bait. But it's that we shouldn't even be having this conversation. Knowing how PSG would act in the 2nd half, he had the direct opportunity to sub him at half-time yet chose not to, which further highlights his incompetence. If we're a goal down with 11 men, we can still come back, but being a man down too makes it an almost impossible task. That is on him.

Completely true. Let's just not ignore those moments players had just so we can bash Ole. He wasn't responsible for the result, our players had every op.

I feel we're using every op to say 'this is why we should get rid of him' when ultimately we probably should have had that game sewn up and it'd be a different story.
 
I agree that the missed chances had a bigger swing in the match than Fred's red. I agree that Fred should be criticised for reacting vs. Paredes, it was stupid to take the bait. But it's that we shouldn't even be having this conversation. Knowing how PSG would act in the 2nd half, he had the direct opportunity to sub him at half-time yet chose not to, which further highlights his incompetence. If we're a goal down with 11 men, we can still come back, but being a man down too makes it an almost impossible task. That is on him.
That is on fred
 
You get the feeling this going on between the'Ole Iners' and 'Ole outers' will continue for some time because the fan base is divided due to the inconsistency.

When we win, Ole is the master. When we lose Ole is the disaster. Nothing will change but does this not really highlight the overall issue? We are so inconsistent that it clearly indicates that Ole may not be the right man for the job?

I'm absolutely in the Ole out camp and have been since the disastrous start to the season. I get that he has some good results but he should be getting good results because he has one of the most expensive squads in world football - we have a good team that should be doing better than they are IMO.

He will rue last nights decision to keep Fred on because getting knocked out of the CL, before the next stage, could be the tipping point should the league campaign go south. December is a killer month for him and the fixtures are savage. West Ham is no given this weekend. Lose the next 3 games and Leeds could be his hammer blow - what a fecking disaster that would be for any United fan, whether you are Ole in or out.

We have player issues in Pogba and Martial but his management and coaching staff look inept for me. I don't see anything in Ole that screams leader. He comes across as timid and weak, whilst trying to be all the players best friend rather than manager.

TalkSport was interesting this morning - even a Cardiff fan messaged in to say he was their worst manager he could recall. He screams mediocrity and persisting with him will take us just there.
 
But that's my point how can we blame manager solely for that. I keep hearing Ole should go based on yesterday's loss which I don't understand. Ole has his flaws but players also have to take responsibility.

If we continue to give them free pass then irrespective of who the manager is we can never win major trophies. And as for needing another forward, well Ole also has been wanting another forward whether that is Haaland or sancho. There is a reason we signed ighalo and cavani because our board failed to get him his first choices. What makes you think the new manager will not have the same problem? You cannot blame Ole for not signing a forward or a right winger.
You're rewriting history here. Ole could have got someone of the ilk of Ighalo/Cavani the summer of last year too, I remember Giroud or Llorente being mentioned as options back then, but he chose not to. Ole only wanted young "United players" for the future back then.

Also the board didn't fail to get Håland, he himself turned us down, and we didn't want to include a get out clause a few years later in his contract. Sancho would have cost €120m, so i can't blame them for not paying that in a pandemic year.

The argument of Ole not being backed cannot be used. He's spent £270m in 2 years. Is it the boards fault if he decides to spend £130m on defenders instead of strikers?
 
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I’m so sure that a different manager wouldn’t be getting half as much stick as Ole just because it wouldn’t be Ole.

we played great last night ffs, set up well, the right line up, should have put PSG to the sword, players misses and brain farts cost us that match
 
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