Ole Gunnar Solskjær | 2021/22 Discussion

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Regulus Arcturus Black said:
Ruthless. :lol: but it's the only hope I'm clinging too. That we can still be ruthless enough to have everything in place for Poch to come in and only something absolutely remarkable between now and May could change that.
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I have a feeling we would try to run a story like "Manchester United and Ole Gunnar Solskjaer have agreed to partways, but the former United manager and player will still have some influence in the club as they aim to continue rebuilding and regaining the culture of the club"
 
ranxerox said:
Exactly

One side has facts and empirical evidence on its side, the other has blind faith, magical thinking, and constantly struggles to warp reality to fit a narrative.
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A little bit, but we know managers can improve after poor spells, poor management, terrible transfers and terrible results.
So even if there is little indication for that we at least know it is possible.
I think Ole should go, but still have tiny hope he will improve and turn this around. Had the same feeling with LVG who I also thought was totally clueless from 5 games in pretty much.

To create a universe though is something noone have seen or have any ideas about. Thus having faith in that is totally blind.
 
Paul_Scholes18 said:
A little bit, but we know managers can improve after poor spells, poor management, terrible transfers and terrible results.
So even if there is little indication for that we at least know it is possible.
I think Ole should go, but still have tiny hope he will improve and turn this around. Had the same feeling with LVG who I also thought was totally clueless from 5 games in pretty much.

To create a universe though is something noone have seen or have any ideas about. Thus having faith in that is totally blind.
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Any chances of that might have gone with Rashford's injury. With him gone, we don't have goal scorers. Need Pogba back soon too, so that at least we can have few from midfield who can chip in with goals.

Only hope is somehow stay in Europa and have players back for next round.
 
Next 5 league games are probably going either make or break him in the eyes of the board. It could be very ugly.
 
Sacked if we finish below sixth is a stupid way of judging things.
 
ranxerox said:
Exactly

One side has facts and empirical evidence on its side, the other has blind faith, magical thinking, and constantly struggles to warp reality to fit a narrative.
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Facts and empirical evidence that are directly affected by vigorously undertaking a rebuild that should have started 3 seasons ago. The Ole Out blame Ole instead of lauding him for attempting the clear-out with gusto. Was it somewhat Naive? Sure. Needed? Definitely.

Add in a terrible season for injuries to our best players. A steller season for introducing youth, top four still to play for.

But hey don't take any notice of influences such as these, just points on the table and league position. That's the only thing we should consider eh.

It's not as black and white as it seems and it's not some naive perspective people are placing on it purely because it's Ole.
 
No other big club would be stupid enough to sign someone with Molde and relegating Cardiff on their CV in the first place, regardless of how many cup winning goals they'd scored for them.
 
RUCK4444 said:
Facts and empirical evidence that are directly affected by vigorously undertaking a rebuild that should have started 3 seasons ago. The Ole Out blame Ole instead of lauding him for attempting the clear-out with gusto. Was it somewhat Naive? Sure. Needed? Definitely.

Add in a terrible season for injuries to our best players. A steller season for introducing youth, top four still to play for.

But hey don't take any notice of influences such as these, just points on the table and league position. That's the only thing we should consider eh.

It's not as black and white as it seems and it's not some naive perspective people are placing on it purely because it's Ole.
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Do you think Ole is better or as good as Pochettino?
 
RUCK4444 said:
Facts and empirical evidence that are directly affected by vigorously undertaking a rebuild that should have started 3 seasons ago. The Ole Out blame Ole instead of lauding him for attempting the clear-out with gusto. Was it somewhat Naive? Sure. Needed? Definitely.

Add in a terrible season for injuries to our best players. A steller season for introducing youth, top four still to play for.

But hey don't take any notice of influences such as these, just points on the table and league position. That's the only thing we should consider eh.

It's not as black and white as it seems and it's not some naive perspective people are placing on it purely because it's Ole.
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Every manager since SAF has been rebuilding. Ole is arguably doing the worse job of it where it matters on the pitch and training ground.

People talk, well when it comes to Ole, as if football management is 100% about signing and selling players. That’s only a fraction of the job. Even then let’s look at his £80m CB not the player he was last year, yet alone improving under Ole.

Shall we even begin to talk about his coaching and match day decisions ?
 
roonster09 said:
Any chances of that might have gone with Rashford's injury. With him gone, we don't have goal scorers. Need Pogba back soon too, so that at least we can have few from midfield who can chip in with goals.

Only hope is somehow stay in Europa and have players back for next round.
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They are tiny, but Bruno gives some hope. Pogba some more. Not expecting miracles, but Europa league is possible to win.
Brugge is a very hard start, but if we win that game then we might have some players back. Feels like 50/50 now against them though. Since they can score goals fairly well and not trusting our attack much.

There are few giants in Europe. Sevilla did knock us out under Mourinho, but not sure they are that great anymore.
Inter can be deadly, but I can see them mess up against a weak side early on. I do fear Rom against us, but hopefully
he will have a crap day against someone else and get knocked out.
Ajax are good, but counter attacks might work on them and they are not the best at defending. Even if I rate Blind.
Rashford might be back for semi finals if we are lucky too.
Arsenal on their day can be hard, but can see them messing up early too.
 
Paul_Scholes18 said:
They are tiny, but Bruno gives some hope. Pogba some more. Not expecting miracles, but Europa league is possible to win.
Brugge is a very hard start, but if we win that game then we might have some players back. Feels like 50/50 now against them though. Since they can score goals fairly well and not trusting our attack much.

There are few giants in Europe. Sevilla did knock us out under Mourinho, but not sure they are that great anymore.
Inter can be deadly, but I can see them mess up against a weak side early on. I do fear Rom against us, but hopefully
he will have a crap day against someone else and get knocked out.
Ajax are good, but counter attacks might work on them and they are not the best at defending. Even if I rate Blind.
Rashford might be back for semi finals if we are lucky too.
Arsenal on their day can be hard, but can see them messing up early too.
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Good chance Inter will field weak team, conte is moaning about squad depth and they had few injuries. They are in title race so might play back up players.

Need Rashford, Pogba back to have any chance of winning.
 
RUCK4444 said:
Facts and empirical evidence that are directly affected by vigorously undertaking a rebuild that should have started 3 seasons ago. The Ole Out blame Ole instead of lauding him for attempting the clear-out with gusto. Was it somewhat Naive? Sure. Needed? Definitely.

Add in a terrible season for injuries to our best players. A steller season for introducing youth, top four still to play for.

But hey don't take any notice of influences such as these, just points on the table and league position. That's the only thing we should consider eh.

It's not as black and white as it seems and it's not some naive perspective people are placing on it purely because it's Ole.
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Lauding him for leaving the squad so threadbare we now have to bring in a loanee who's plying his trade in the Chinese league? Why would people do that?

The bringing through youth argument just keeps getting weaker the longer the season goes on. I have high hopes for both Greenwood and Williams but they've been given so much game time because there's literally been no one else to play in their respective positions. McT and Rashford were already established and James who was expected to be a bit part player from the championship has played nearly every game because once again there's nobody else. Ole doesn't trust youth which should be pretty obvious when either Lingard and Peireraor both are getting minutes almost every game.

Are you saying points on the table and league position aren't important at this stage of the season? That it doesn't matter being 8th in the table playing horrible football with a run of games coming up that could drop us even further? You must see something a lot of us don't because at the end of the day we're still one of the biggest clubs in the world and if standards have dropped so much we may as well have held on to Moyes instead of going from one comical decision after another.

Of course it's as black and white as it seems. With Ole there's no grey area. He never has been and never will be good enough to take us back to the top. Just as a matter of curiosity but what needs to happen before you realise that Ole isn't our saviour as some still think of him as?
 
jamesjimmybyrondean said:
Do you think Ole is better or as good as Pochettino?
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I don't see anything special with Poch, Ole is in a phase where something seems to be happening, so I want to see how this ends up. Our most creative player is to come back, and now with Bruno and Scott already training, I think the midfield would work out. Then there is the attack. The Rashford injury is a huge blow but let's see how it works out for Martial when another player makes the run.

For us, our main focus should be to make sure that the opposition doesn't only focus on Martial, and focuses on others, like Igdaho, Bruno, Pogba, etc... and hopefully Greenwood.
 
I have a feeling that ebita and revenues will be as important in judging Ole as points and league position. And Woodward will again look like a desperate clown if he decides to sack Ole after 14 months as permanent manager.

A lot of things will have to work in our favour if we are to reach top 4 or win the EL. I really hope that Woodward is keeping Poch updated on the club's plans.
 
1053 pages. Impressive. I bet 70% of this thread is all about Ole out vs Ole in.

Ole out : "Need a better manager!" "Shite manager, sack him!"
Ole in : "JURGEN KLOPP is a proof Ole is a top top manager!" "Feck Poch, feck everyone, you non proper United fans are so lame!"
 
Liverpool winning the league and us having one of the weakest managers in the league. What a season. How things have changed.
 
tenpoless said:
1053 pages. Impressive. I bet 70% of this thread is all about Ole out vs Ole in.

Ole out : "Need a better manager!" "Shite manager, sack him!"
Ole in : "JURGEN KLOPP is a proof Ole is a top top manager!" "Feck Poch, feck everyone, you non proper United fans are so lame!"
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Pretty much. I like how what is used in Oles favour isn't his peformances but that of SAF, Pep and Klopp. Their successes will turn him into a managerial great. Great stuff.
 
Cathy Ferguson said:
I have a feeling that ebita and revenues will be as important in judging Ole as points and league position. And Woodward will again look like a desperate clown if he decides to sack Ole after 14 months as permanent manager.

A lot of things will have to work in our favour if we are to reach top 4 or win the EL. I really hope that Woodward is keeping Poch updated on the club's plans.
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I really hope it's more than updating. Poch won't hang around if it's all ifs, buts and maybes if another club he's interested in comes in for him. What I'm hoping is he's already been told he's got the job come the end of the season and I wouldn't care if Ole somehow flukes the EL or FA Cup.
 
momo83 said:
Every manager since SAF has been rebuilding. Ole is arguably doing the worse job of it where it matters on the pitch and training ground.

People talk, well when it comes to Ole, as if football management is 100% about signing and selling players. That’s only a fraction of the job. Even then let’s look at his £80m CB not the player he was last year, yet alone improving under Ole.

Shall we even begin to talk about his coaching and match day decisions ?
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Results have been poor, no denying that. However, again, it's down to opinion on how various factors have affected these games.

*Namely being hamstrung by injuries to key players, our best performing players, throughout the season being one factor.
*Another huge factor for me was the paltry net spend in the summer, a net spend of £75 million during a rebuild of this scale is pathetic (see Real Madrid this summer if you want to see a football juggernaut in transition.)
*Anybody who believes Ole let Lukaku go without being promised a replacement is naive at best or thick at worst in my opinion. Either that or they have much more faith in Ed Woodward than they should by now.

I can see the poor results, i'm not blind or even remotely biased towards Ole however I don't chose to ignore the above in order to fit an Ole-Out narrative.
 
Gasolin said:
I don't see anything special with Poch, Ole is in a phase where something seems to be happening, so I want to see how this ends up. Our most creative player is to come back, and now with Bruno and Scott already training, I think the midfield would work out. Then there is the attack. The Rashford injury is a huge blow but let's see how it works out for Martial when another player makes the run.

For us, our main focus should be to make sure that the opposition doesn't only focus on Martial, and focuses on others, like Igdaho, Bruno, Pogba, etc... and hopefully Greenwood.
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It's called regression to the mean, and as a result we're sliding further towards mid-table mediocrity. I can't understand how can anyone claim anything else, other than that the fabric of space-time continuum has collapsed on RedCafe and we're actually all arguing from our own universe where in one version Ole is actually competent.
 
RUCK4444 said:
*Another huge factor for me was the paltry net spend in the summer, a net spend of £75 million during a rebuild of this scale is pathetic (see Real Madrid this summer if you want to see a football juggernaut in transition.)
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No-one expects Madrid-esque results though do they? They expect results that are better than 36% wins in the league.
 
I have never been Ole Out, and I do have patience for rebuild - therefore for poor results in this season, but here's the red line:

if we finish below top 6th AND we don't win Europa League, Ole has to go.

There's certain standard, falling below which is not acceptable. I understand top4 was hard but considering how bad other top teams are as well this year and how low total points is for everybody, any spot below top 6 is unacceptable. The only excuse could be if we prioritize and win EL, getting Champions League qualification. I give that a chance of 10% but still an acceptable out.

If Ole thinks we finish 8th or 9th and not win EL and that is somehow ok - then he needs to go!
 
jamesjimmybyrondean said:
Do you think Ole is better or as good as Pochettino?
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In truth I'm just letting things play out, before being able to actually, you know, form an opinion.

In my opinion you cannot judge Ole for relegating a TERRIBLE Cardiff, I know all too well how awful that team was and importantly how awful it was run, trust me I'm from Cardiff and attend most home games taking customers to hospitality. They were and are a terrible team and the owner at the time was at his absolute worst, picking the team and changing the club colors for a start!

Ole at Molde, again what sort of benchmark is that? Are we expecting a CL final or something to deem him decent enough at Molde?

Now for the above reasons I believe his only true test is what is playing out right now at United. It's not looking great from a coaching perspective however Fred is looking a different player, McTominay progressing steadily prior to injury, Rashford having his best season. Shall we just forget that? Mourinho struggled with these things meanwhile playing what I believe was a worse brand of football.

To answer your question regarding Poch, it's hard to say, I don't remember Poch having such bad luck with injuries over a course of a season and how that might have affected him. I'm trying to form a fair opinion on whether Ole is good enough. That said Poch has won nothing, did well with a talented Spurs side to get to a CL final, finished 2nd in the league and ultimately bottled it. He's the only option however and I would opt for him if Ole was sacked tomorrow.
I'm sure however a couple of bad performances and no trophies would have the same bunch of posters longing for him to be sacked as well, so the cycle continues.
 
amolbhatia50k said:
Pretty much. I like how what is used in Oles favour isn't his peformances but that of SAF, Pep and Klopp. Their successes will turn him into a managerial great. Great stuff.
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Some posters demanding respect for Ole because He's a club legend regardless of His current capacity as a manager, while raging in 3...2...
 
RUCK4444 said:
Results have been poor, no denying that. However, again, it's down to opinion on how various factors have affected these games.

*Namely being hamstrung by injuries to key players, our best performing players, throughout the season being one factor.
*Another huge factor for me was the paltry net spend in the summer, a net spend of £75 million during a rebuild of this scale is pathetic (see Real Madrid this summer if you want to see a football juggernaut in transition.)
*Anybody who believes Ole let Lukaku go without being promised a replacement is naive at best or thick at worst in my opinion. Either that or they have much more faith in Ed Woodward than they should by now.

I can see the poor results, i'm not blind or even remotely biased towards Ole however I don't chose to ignore the above in order to fit an Ole-Out narrative.
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Opinions are like assholes, everyone's got one, facts on the other hand are objective (even if interpretations aren't ), and facts don't paint a pretty picture.
 
Regulus Arcturus Black said:
No-one expects Madrid-esque results though do they? They expect results that are better than 36% wins in the league.
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Fair point but that wasn't the comparison I was trying to draw, I was pointing out that when we sanction a clear-out of dead wood and spend only £75 million of our own actual money (net spend allowing for sales) and don't then ensure we replace our top goalscorer - that has to factor heavily in what follows in both performances and ultimate league position.

Then when you add injuries to best players on top of the above how do we not factor that in if we are to form a fair appraisal on Ole?

I expect you think I'm a die hard Ole fanboy, not true. When it comes to the club I put success first every time, I am a massive Rooney fan and yet one of the first to agree he needed moving on well before he did.

I am of the belief that in order to gain long term progress we need short term stabilization. A steady hand to re-balance a truly disjointed squad, a pause to the merry-go-round of managers and the varying styles and signings that has culminated in the mess that Ole took over.
 
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