How did SAF win with the Glazers then?
Because he was an incredible manager.
Get in a good manager, and maybe we can start winning again.
Ole is doing far worse than any manager post-SAF.
Ole Gunnar Solskjær | 2021/22 Discussion
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How did SAF win with the Glazers then?
Because he was an incredible manager.
Get in a good manager, and maybe we can start winning again.
Ole is doing far worse than any manager post-SAF.
There are no perfect owners and the Glazers are far from that, but currently it's their club. Would a Saudi prince owning the club will make you feel better?
We were winning many titles and cups when they took over and not so long ago. What was the difference between 05-13 and the last 6 years can you remind me?
I don't know - I would have agreed before because Woodward is lost as Ole is but after watching Chelsea losing points literally every week - I feel like all we need is a new manager for us to scrape a top 4 chance again.
We drew one match again & now spurs are above us - I can't let Ole just waste time anymore.
Sir Alex was special. Not many managers can compete under the shackles of the glazers. Remember the famous quote 'no value in the market'? This shit show has been going on for too many years. When did OT last get a look in?
Sack Ole and bring in whoever you want, and I would absolutley love to be proven wrong. But here is another thought, tell me an incredible manager that would contemplate coming here right now?
Ermmm, the fact we had the best living and breathing manager around, who has already shown he can work miracles. As I have said multiple times, what top manager out there would come here?
I shall also ask you what I asked RAB, who employed Ole? Who is still employing him? Who is backing him with 200mil? And who is the one constant throught the shit weve been through the last 6 years? Somethings about United matter more to me than results.
Also, feck of with the Saudi shit please. Want my thoughts on that, find it in the thread on that subject.
As in, Ole gets a free ride as long as Woody is here, regardless of how rubbish he is? Then no, most won't agree. As bad as post-Fergie years have been, we have won trophies and finished in the top 4 a few times, under the same management. So no, Ole can't use Ed's incompetence as an excuse forever. Actually, I'm not sure who's worse - Ole the manager or Ed the CEO.
And what top CEO would want to come here then? Goes both ways. You seriously believe no top manager could improve us and create some sort of a viable plan other than Ole?
As I said, we sack Woodward tomorrow, who will the Glazers employ and would he be better than him?
If the Glazers were to sell not many can afford to buy the club, Saudi's are the only viable buyer in foreseeable future, unless you have a better idea.
Where have i said no top manager would improve us? Also again, read my post in the saudi thread before spouting nonsense.
I shall offer you my 'solution' not that it matters Much because i am not in the job and im also undereducated for such dicisions.
Hire people that actually know football to make the footballing decisions, not an ex banker. Start to form and identity with said people on how United as a footballing institution moves forward. Put together a recruiment team focused solely on identifying targets that fit said identity. Hire a manager who also fits the collective vision they want to build towards.
There is a start, and thats a 2 minute brain storm. Now YOU tell me why i can come up with something that resembles a plan on 2 minutes but Glazers have failed to implement anything other than rinse and repeat the manager.
Also why are you even defending them?
I'm not defending them, just stating reality. You can't move them unless someone like the Saudi's come.
The CEO will most likely be again an ex banker. Can you remind me what was David Gill's career before coming to United? What position did he occupy when he came to United? Wasn't it the same as Woodward?
You are living in la la land if you think we have a better chance at replacing the whole board than the manager first and foremost.
A better manager can give you the foundations to build on. United is a bit of a special club in a sense that most footballing decisions were made by the manager. It's quite normal still that position to have the biggest reflection on our performance on the pitch.
Comparing the situation now to under Sir Alex is abit of a joke and undermines what he accomplished. I hardly think Gill needed much knowledge when all decisions before he came had been successfully attained by Sir Alex himself. We do not have that luxury now of knowing our manager will get it right. When Sir Alex walks, they should have already had a plan in place to bring an organised structure in place. What else did they expect would happen when the one man who handled most footballing sides of the job walks away?
Also worth noting, the CEO of how many years of working closely with Sir Alex walks at the same time.
Im not saying I have the answers, only people who are actually in charge of the football club should! 6/7 years of muckery shows they can't. Just been one shit showing after another.
So what your getting at basically is, if I don't have a solution, don't have an opinion? Nice.
Edit: i can say I agree that a new manager can change things, but for how long? How man false dawns have their been?
I'm not suggesting that. My point is that - just like any other club - the manager who is clearly incompetent in his role should take the fall first.
Keeping Solskjaer and expecting change in the board and also above is not part of the "plan" currently in effect. Sacking yet another manager and admitting publicly that he has been a failure might actually move things in that direction you mentioned, not the other way around(keeping him for no reason).
That and the other point was - just because you are a matchgoer now, doesn't make your opinion hold more weight just because apparently you know how the club functions better. We've been there and not going now, doesn't mean we don't get access to the same information, by matchgoers like yourself.
Yes I can agree with that, like I said though, I have doubts they can ever get it right and will continually try and take care of themselves. Where do we go from there?
Also, nothing I said came close to me describing myself as having a more valid opinion than others because I attend games. My point was, I see alot of people moaning about the results, the football that is on display, and rightly so, but not so many seem to care, or if they do dont show it, about the stadiums condition, a historic and beautiful place in which I have many fond memories of just having days out as a fan with loved ones no longer here. I go there now and I see a place deprived of being looked after. Rot, mould, barely reinforced cracks and other damages. There is no investment to what is around the stadium, nothing, and its sickening to me.
That is my point, not trying to sit on some high horse, but merly the fact there is more I care about than just results.
Well, there is no guarantee the next manager will be a successful one. There's no guarantee that the one that will come after him will be the one. They have been terrible for both United and TB after an initial good spell in terms of results and silverware. The TB downfall comes before United's one, but even in a sport they have a better clue at, they couldn't turn it around so far.
Still trying to change things up and hopefully clicking with the next one is better than conceding that we're fecked and can do nothing about it. At least that's my stance.
No argument there. It's not only the results for me either, but I want to give a proper manager chance and time, rather than watch Ole waste ours week in and week out.
Of course all fans care about the stadium's condition and it's a valid point to build your agenda on, however that's not an "enticing" one for the majority considering how many things rotten we have at the moment and most would rather pick their battle - be it Glazers, Woodward, etc.
I don't understand why everything has to be so polarised here between Ole in and Ole out. Both arguments have some merit.
There's no plan, no tactics/The plan is clear
Ole, McKenna and Carrick are all quite inexperienced at this level and that has shown in a few matches and substitutions. But at the same time they have outwitted some very tactically astute managers. Negating Klopp's full backs, for instance, exploiting Pep's defence and creating spaces for the forwards to run into etc. Often it's not the most brilliant of tacttics, but Wolves play on the counter alot as did SAF, so why is Ole battered as naive for it.
On the other hand though you have had some great performances, others have been unacceptable, with no intensity and seemingly no creativity. This can't be allowed to go on and Ole, if he can needs to eradicate these as soon as possible. But Liverpool aside, there's no team that has put in consistently good performances all season so Utd doesn't differ from other PL teams in that respect.
There's no coaching/Players are improving
This criticism I disagree with, again it might not be the very best, but there is definitely improvement from players. Fred, McT, Rashford, AWB, Greenwood have all improved as the season has gone on. They all seem to know what they are meant to be doing, is it the best plan? Maybe not but to say there is no coaching is just not true.
He left us with a threadbare squad/We've been unlucky with injuries
Losing Sanchez and Lukaku in the summer was definitely a hit, but both were reportedly negative influences on your squad and many people here wanted them gone. My reading of this is that Ole wanted replacements in the summer, he said they would be replaced and the Ed and Judge let him down and failed to recruit in time. In the recent window, I think you were unlucky with Haaland, the belief at OT was I think that they expected him to join. Fernandes looks a good signing, time will tell.
You've definitely been unlucky with injuries, every squad suffers from them, but losing Pogba, Martial, Rashford and McT for long periods is a massive hot that not many teams could take. Had Ole been backed in the summer properly and you'd brought in another CM and FW things would be very different - is this Ole's fault .... honestly none of us know what really goes on behind the scenes.
Sir Alex was given time why not Ole?
You can't compare the two at all, different people, different times and different circumstances. But equally it is very unfair to compare Ole's career so far with SAF's entire career. Just because SAF came good it doesn't mean that Ole will but at the same time it doesn't mean Ole will fail badly either. But Ole has managed one thing that no other manager post SAF has though and that's to truly build a sense of team and keep the dressing room on side through some appalling results, that has to be to his credit, the players obviously believe that something here is right.
Whether Ole is building something good or just not good enough is difficult to tell at the moment as not everything is going wrong, but at the same time it certainly isn't right either. I think the real argument here is, would a new manager now improve things or set things back again?
There's no plan, no tactics/The plan is clear
Ole, McKenna and Carrick are all quite inexperienced at this level and that has shown in a few matches and substitutions. But at the same time they have outwitted some very tactically astute managers. Negating Klopp's full backs, for instance, exploiting Pep's defence and creating spaces for the forwards to run into etc. Often it's not the most brilliant of tacttics, but Wolves play on the counter alot as did SAF, so why is Ole battered as naive for it.
On the other hand though you have had some great performances, others have been unacceptable, with no intensity and seemingly no creativity. This can't be allowed to go on and Ole, if he can needs to eradicate these as soon as possible. But Liverpool aside, there's no team that has put in consistently good performances all season so Utd doesn't differ from other PL teams in that respect.
There's no coaching/Players are improving
This criticism I disagree with, again it might not be the very best, but there is definitely improvement from players. Fred, McT, Rashford, AWB, Greenwood have all improved as the season has gone on. They all seem to know what they are meant to be doing, is it the best plan? Maybe not but to say there is no coaching is just not true.
He left us with a threadbare squad/We've been unlucky with injuries
Losing Sanchez and Lukaku in the summer was definitely a hit, but both were reportedly negative influences on your squad and many people here wanted them gone. My reading of this is that Ole wanted replacements in the summer, he said they would be replaced and the Ed and Judge let him down and failed to recruit in time. In the recent window, I think you were unlucky with Haaland, the belief at OT was I think that they expected him to join. Fernandes looks a good signing, time will tell.
You've definitely been unlucky with injuries, every squad suffers from them, but losing Pogba, Martial, Rashford and McT for long periods is a massive hot that not many teams could take. Had Ole been backed in the summer properly and you'd brought in another CM and FW things would be very different - is this Ole's fault .... honestly none of us know what really goes on behind the scenes.
Sir Alex was given time why not Ole?
You can't compare the two at all, different people, different times and different circumstances. But equally it is very unfair to compare Ole's career so far with SAF's entire career. Just because SAF came good it doesn't mean that Ole will but at the same time it doesn't mean Ole will fail badly either. But Ole has managed one thing that no other manager post SAF has though and that's to truly build a sense of team and keep the dressing room on side through some appalling results, that has to be to his credit, the players obviously believe that something here is right.
Whether Ole is building something good or just not good enough is difficult to tell at the moment as not everything is going wrong, but at the same time it certainly isn't right either. I think the real argument here is, would a new manager now improve things or set things back again?
Trully build a sense of team?
What makes you think so? We're just a bunch of ragtag collection of players. They've shown no great chemistry like our treble team, nothing like barcelona 2008, just a collective individual who doesnt know each other position so bad they misplaced alot of passes.
What sense of team? The players obviously think he's right. You bet they would, pereira lingard shaw would be shown the door with any competent manager, you bet they love ole and says anything to keep him here.
Made up praises to praise ole
This is what I meant by polarised arguments.
"They've shown no great chemistry like our treble team/Barca 2008" of course they haven't comparing them to the team of 99 is ridiculous, it's like comparing Ole to SAF, utterly pointless. This lot have been bought by different managers asked to play all sorts of different systems and had the morale sucked out them by mismanagement at the club. They are hardly a rag tag collection of players though, should they be doing better now under Ole, of course they should, that's why I said he's maybe not the very best like Pep and SAF in their prime, it's a useless comparison that will always end up badly for you.
"Pereira, Lingard, Shaw would be shown the door by any competent manager" Actually they weren't by Jose or LvG (both competent managers) Lingard and Pereira are only playing because of injuries. They're not good enough, Pereira might improve, Lingard has had long enough to show that he probably won't but you can't ship them out without replacements, they will go and it's clear they are not first choice players.
You're well known for being Ole out and jumping on any post you can, you've done it to me plenty of times, that's fine, but there are far more nuances to this argument than you make out. I agree he's not a great manager he's done lots wrong and made mistakes that have cost you, but he's also done things right as well. This forum would be a lot better if people like you actually had reasoned arguments (there are many ole out points for you to make) balancing the positives and the negatives rather than over emotional our shit players are shit and we're not as good as the treble team, sack Ole and shit in his handbag.
Do you agree he's a a good manager?
Cause i dont. I go to the other extreme because that's what you do. The list you list is all excuses to make ole looks good covered by some semantics about trying to be balanced. It's not. You're ole in and it shows.
The things like
Perreria can improve
Great squad building
Great chemistry
Done lot of rights
I dont mind if you're ole in. We all picked a stance. But let's not pretend you're neutral.
We won 9 games out of 25. 9 GAMES!!!
He has no plan B against clubs that sit back yet he persists with this 4-2-3-1 formation which just doesn't work.
He is definitely one of the worst managers I have ever seen.
He is not improving the players and the system he is using is not working , the players stand like statues and looks like they have no proper clue.
He would drag any team down 50% of what they are actually capable of playing.
25 games in and he is still sticking with this 4-2-3-1 formation which is ridiculous.
He has no plan B against clubs that sit back yet he persists with this 4-2-3-1 formation which just doesn't work.
He is definitely one of the worst managers I have ever seen.
He is not improving the players and the system he is using is not working , the players stand like statues and looks like they have no proper clue.
He would drag any team down 50% of what they are actually capable of playing.
25 games in and he is still sticking with this 4-2-3-1 formation which is ridiculous.
You can't separate the two,
200M, if woodwards needs to be sacked for poor decision making, then Ole by default needs to go because he's exactly the bad decision ed Picked.
Very good post! I don't know why the forum is this polarized. There are defiantly merits in both the sides that can be depected without stamping on the other or going to an extreme.
I couldn't care less if you stick with Ole or not, I'm not a united fan. But feel free to give people labels rather than look at the bigger picture which I've laid out on numerous occassions.
Like almost every football club, there are good and bad things going on at United, the only thing that makes United different is that most fans are of an age where they are not used to seeing bad things, because you were so successful for so long. Not everyone has to be extreme in or out, the world isn't just black and white and if you strip out the emotion, you'll see there's a lot of grey!
In that case can we argue that SAF isn't a GOAT? or Moyes was actually wasn't that bad for United? or that Pep is actually a freud because he never done it with Stoke City FC?
There has to be a line drawn? At what point we can actually says "Yes, he's doing a bad job and deserves the boot?" Oh... while we're at it, maybe perreira is the next diego maradonna, who knows with enough coaching and a full XI filled with world class he may become one.
That's not the bigger picture, that's finding positives in a very negative situation.
PS: Labelling people? Ironically it's you that labels people. Indeed I'm ole out, but I don't create narratives for that, we have 35 pts from 25 match. that's pretty bad? Or you need a whole page of dissertations that it's actually not that bad?
Ole is a bum. Worst manager we’ve had post Ferguson and arguably the worst in the league. I don’t know why people are trying so hard to keep up this “support the manager/proper fan” facade.
Of course you can argue he's doing a bad job and deserves the boot. If you read the original post, I said he'd made mistakes and along with his coaching team was inexperienced, my point was per the opening line of my first post in this discussion was why does it have to be so polarised? Your attitude in numerous Ole threads is that he's shit and though people have argued some positives you refuse to even acknolwedge them (dont worry you're not alone some Ole in posters refuse to acknowledge the negatives which you lay out every day), that makes all these Ole threads facile, superficial and ultimately boring as they go in circles over and over again.
The real argument in my mind as previously stated is will getting a new manager in right now make things better or worse.
Agree with this.
I don't think ole is the best coach or manager for the club but there are some positive aspects to it which should not be overlooked for the sake of having an opinion.
Reckon he has the right idea in terms of the squad we need to build. He's bringing in players that are not just talented but leaders as well. They are hardworking, dedicated and want to genuinely play for united. There is very little to be gained by firing him now.
The squad he's building would stand us in good stead over the next few years, even if he's not the manager to take us to the top. I appreciate the culture he's trying to build and would gladly let him continue till the end of season. Maybe take a call then, on how the season has panned out.
Preeeeeaaaaach...!
I wish I could stop caring and stop reading the United forum, it’s soul-destroying. Starting to feel like fecking politics.
Completley agree with this, I signed up like 6 months ago after years of stalking the place, in hope of bringing more positivity. But even I feel myself being sucked in to all the negativity to the point it does feel soul destroying. Im 90% sure every United fan wants what is best for United. Opinions though, shouldn't cause hate and insults, in which alot of these topics turn to recently.
Ole earned it when he scored that Champions League winner for us. Respect our legend! Extend his contract! Believe!
In your ultimate quest to win it all, thou shalt lose a shitload of games first. Be patient. Rebuild etc.
It would've been. Only if there was a plan to replace them. Selling "deadwood" isn't a great job. It's adequately replacing them.
Or do you think if we had Lukaku and Smalling in our squad, we would be worse off than what we are?
If we all had the information that Lukaku wouldn't be replaced, none of us would be pushing for his departure. Same goes for Fellaini if we knew that there were no plans of upgradation plus Herrera would also leave. Ole has stripped the squad to an extent where we are far away from even being good on paper.
Because, my dear friend.
If it's doesn't come to a polar, I would not be in Ole's out camp. If it doesn't reach my polar then I'd pretty much wait and see. The crux of the matter is that you can't accept people who thinks that Ole has reached their threshold. You "forced" people to adjust their polar threshold in the name of neutrality, and labelled those that has a different threshold than you as "Having no reasoned argument", while you yourself are stating soundbytes and made up myths about "dressing room (something you have no privy off), Players are improving (messi would improve if the Joker himself is coaching him, doesn't make Joker a good coach)"
And somehow my argument (whatever you think mine is) is flawed, and unfair while yours is the true pure neutral argument?
If you don't agree with me, fine. If you argue otherwise, fine. But don't come in here with a holier than thou attitude labeling people as "having no reasoned argument"
You have to remember that we all grew up watching United winning trebles, you clearly have no understanding and respect towards United fans thinking we somehow have an agenda on Ole. We don't, most of us has him in his sitting position celebrating the famous 1999 goal, most of us would love him to become our next SAF, check my record I defended him during his interim days. But that doesn't mean I'm blind.
That Board spent money on players when SAF insisted on paying extremely high fees. We got Berbatov, RVP too. Paid over the odds some will say and he won trophies with the. This board bought Maguire of over 80 million for Ole and he has regressed.
I don't trust Ole. He has done nothing to even come close to manage a top football club.
He has relegated the only club he has managed in the PL.
I trust Steve McLaren a lot more than Ole to manage a football club.
Would any top club hire Jurgen Klopp if he had not won the Bundesliga and taken Dortmund to the CL final and had a reputation of being among the top coaches of the World? Of course not.
Would you hire someone who was managing a local pound stretcher corner shop to run a multi billion dollar international organization? Of course not.
The man has been a top player and is a legend as a player but as a manager he is a failure and should have been gone once he started showing his incompetency.
Cheers. Good post.
Personally i think its not as black and white as either side of the argument here wants to make it out to be. If i were to break down his manager abilities i would say this
Squad management/transfers
Out: Sanchez, Lukaku, Herrera, Fellaini, Darmian, Valencia, Young, Smalling, Rojo
In: Maguire, AWB, Bruno, James.
His critics lambast him for ripping up the squad and leaving us thin, which is true, he did, but imo it was a completely necessary step if we ever were to take this rebuild necessary. The squad, as painful as it would be, had to be trimmed down a bit to make room for other players. Lukaku and Herrera were good players that undoubtedly could have helped this season, but both left for reasons other than them not being good enough. The others were simply not contributing on the pitch to justify having them around.
Transfers in have been good. Yes Maguire was cost an arm and a leg but is comfortably head and shoulder above the rest of our CB's and since hes been made captain he was bought in for more than just his footballing skills. AWB is an amazing defender and a very mediocre attacker, but is still young and learning and Bruno is to early to say but he really looks like something we badly need in this team. And this is not me kissing Ole's arse, i firmly believe he did the right thing here. If can manage to rid ourselves of Sanchez and Smalling + some of the other deadwood that currently play for us. Great. I dont care if we have to promote half the U21's next season. We've been half arsing and postponing this rebuild for years now. We need a full reset from the ground up
Individual player management
Rashford has been having his best season yet and Fred looks like a completely different player. Is this down to Ole? I dont know, maybe its just Rashford developing as he would either way and Fred managing to finally settle. Williams and Greenwood have also been introduced the right way imo, but i dont know how much credit Ole should be given for their performances. Maybe they are simply good players that would have delivered under any manager? Who knows.
Individually, i dont think anyone is looking worse now than they have been. Its not like Lindgard was pulling up trees under different managers and suddenly turned bad this year. Maybe Ole is a good man manager or maybe its just circumstance, its hard to say one way or the other
Tactics/team selection
Regarding team selections i think they largely have been alright. People (understandably) moan about the likes of Lindgard and Pereira, but those two would not have played if Pogba and McTomminay were fit and Bruno had got her in the summer. I dont know much about tactics, but they are alright i guess? We have tried different formations this year with varying degrees of success, but i cant really say if they are good or bad.
Coaching
This is a big one and one of the main points against him. We. Are. Shit at breaking down defenses and have been all year. That being said though, i know as much about top level coaching as 99% of the rest of the caf, which is the sum of zero feck all. The results speak for themselves and the fact that we look like shite in about 70% of our games is plain to see. The big question is why. If someone with actual insight and expertise could explain why we are so shit at breaking down teams that would be great.
Interviews/Press handling
I think he wants to keep his cards close to his chest, which is the right way to handle the press. One moment he says he wants more players and the next he says hes happy with what hes got. Be vague and serve them some bullshit. That being said though, some of his comments of late has been very Moyesesque and reeks of desperation. The comment about "We coming a long way because City put out their strongest XI" and "Not conceding to Wolves in x games". Just fecking dont. Maybe hes trying to stay positive but thats frankly pathetic. Not saying he should breathe fire like Jose did, but its completely fine to be displeased with going 180 minutes without scoring at OT
Conclusion: Results have been shite, we play like shite in 70% of our games. Pogba and McTomminay are maybe back after the break, so maybe we can hope for a strong run in? If we get CL next season either by 4th or EL i think he deserves to keep his place for now. If we end the season as poorly as our current form suggests, he needs to go. I dont know for how much he and his coaches are to blame, but this is a results oriented business and so far those are not good enough
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The irony of this post.
And what's wrong with hiring Poch? Are you denying that Poch has better managerial credentials than Ole? If you admit Poch is indeed the better manager, wouldn't it make us play better football and thus improve our position on the table at least? If you think that Poch and Ole are on par, we can just stop the conversation right here.
If you think that hiring Poch wouldn't make a difference, then what is your solution? Revamp the board/change our owners? That's a huge if and almost impossible at this point in time, and what if we are stuck with his current board? We should just stick with Ole, the worst manager in our history? Wouldn't the easiest and most logical thing to do to change our fortunes right now is to get rid of our utter dross of a manager? Does any of these solutions makes sense to you?
Ole is Moyes 2.0 now, the plucky underdog who when we don’t concede first and he can play his negative tactics does ok. Happy to pat himself on the back for drawing at home to Wolves and for City playing their strongest team whilst humiliating us at home. The culture and attitude he is spreading is essentially lowering the bar and making excuses for everything, especially the owners.
Rest of the time he looks completely out of his depth and is inept when we can’t counter attack. Persisting with him is just sleepwalking into mediocrity. Owners aren’t going to change, if Woodward goes it will be a like for like replacement. When some
goes at end of season he won’t have done any long term damage and he’ll be a great manager to follow as it won’t be difficult to improve on his performance.
Rest of the time he looks completely out of his depth and is inept when we can’t counter attack. Persisting with him is just sleepwalking into mediocrity. Owners aren’t going to change, if Woodward goes it will be a like for like replacement. When some
goes at end of season he won’t have done any long term damage and he’ll be a great manager to follow as it won’t be difficult to improve on his performance.
Oh grow up, I said there are arguments on both sides, lots of people with a modicum of sense seem to agree regardless whether they want the manager sacked or not .... you don't, you just make these threads tedious.
This forum would be a lot better if people like you actually had reasoned arguments (there are many ole out points for you to make) balancing the positives and the negatives rather than over emotional our shit players are shit and we're not as good as the treble team, sack Ole and shit in his handbag
this is what you said, and for the record, I have not mentioned the treble team or shit players, or shit in ole handbag.
But fairs fair, I brought up the shit in a handbag.
Which Manchester United Fans hasn't watch our treble winning season????
I swear you dont read posts. You said you didn’t mention the treble team, I just quoted your last two posts to show you did and then I laughed
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