Ole Gunnar Solskjær | 2021/22 Discussion

[L1nk]

I mean, sure... but we've seen absolutely no evidence of that in the 2 years he's been working with the first team, and presumably much like academy players, it's a big, and unguaranteed step up from youth team to top flight? So far the jury is still very much out..



But that's the point! It was 10 years ago. That style of football was usurped in it's effectiveness by Pep, who has since been largely usurped by the likes of Klopp. Things move at a pace in football. Fergie wasn't playing the same style of football he was in 2009 in 1999, or in 1994. And he had 3 separate assistant's during those periods as well.

This is precisely what worries me about this "jobs for the boys" approach, and why I mention the Liverpool boot room, and their penchant for hiring "people who knew the club" in managing and assistant roles, which eventually kept the club in stagnation when (ironically) Fergie came in and changed shit up!

"It worked 10 years ago" (or even 7 years ago) is a terrible basis for long term planning!



See the post one above that one... Sure our players are terrible, but they couldn't even muster a decent attempt or even a half chance in that second half, when we needed a goal. That's why we need progressive coaching! It’s been a whole year.

If we’re intent on keeping Ole despite all agreeing he isn’t a Pep or a Klopp, it’s imperative we employ someone beneath him to fulfil that function. Otherwise we’re just being negligent

Some nice posts in this thread, and you sum up my feelings on the situation perfectly, this entire setup is us looking to the past for things that worked back then, in the hopes that they will work now, but not taking into account football has moved on so much since then and even coaches like Mourinho, who once dominated this league, look outdated. We need a completely modern fresh approach, LVG was another look to the past, he was well past his best, and Mourinho, whilst giving us some success, everyone will agree he was never the same after Real Madrid.

 

[AshRK]

My biggest complain with Ole is his use of AWB. Why play him as a RWB when the guy cannot attack. I feel if he wants to play 3-5-2 then play AWB as a rcb with Maguire and Lindelof and play Dalot as RWB. Also, if you are chasing a match no need to have Maguire, Lindelof and AWB all in the field. I will sub Lindelof and bring in an attacker and have AWB play as a CB (this is only when needing a goal). He has to tweak his tactics a bit while chasing a game.

 

[Houdini]

My biggest complain with Ole is his use of AWB. Why play him as a RWB when the guy cannot attack. I feel if he wants to play 3-5-2 then play AWB as a rcb with Maguire and Lindelof and play Dalot as RWB. Also, if you are chasing a match no need to have Maguire, Lindelof and AWB all in the field. I will sub Lindelof and bring in an attacker and have AWB play as a CB (this is only when needing a goal). He has to tweak his tactics a bit while chasing a game.

We don't have enough attackers.

 

[He'sRaldo]

Also, if Ole is going to stay long term, just because he's got a vaguely positive idea about the kind of football he wants to play, then it's paramount he hires a genuinely progressive coach to work under him, and get the team playing the kind of tactically inventive football we need. The fact that he's just hired his mates, and one of the coaches that worked under Fergie in his latter - less attractive - years, doesn't bode remotely well at all. It's Liverpool boot room bullshit, IMO. let it go!

Very good point. Remains to be seen if he's smart enough to do this.

 

[romufc]

Also, if Ole is going to stay long term, just because he's got a vaguely positive idea about the kind of football he wants to play, then it's paramount he hires a genuinely progressive coach to work under him, and get the team playing the kind of tactically inventive football we need. The fact that he's just hired his mates, and one of the coaches that worked under Fergie in his latter - less attractive - years, doesn't bode remotely well at all. It's Liverpool boot room bullshit, IMO. let it go!

Haven't we been shaking up the backroom staff recently a few new additions etc.

The problem is everytime he is working out a way to play, the player he relies on gets injured.

He started the season with build a team around Pogba and he went.

We started to see some good performances with Rashy left and then he got injured.

With a thin squad when you keep having your most influential players getting injured, you keep have to find different ways of playing.

What we need is depth.

 

[Bilbo]

Its hard to be tactically flexible when you only have one type of midfielder, and one type of forward etc. We have seen the team play different styles when we've had a full squad available. Adding Fernandes will lead to changes and it will continue as we add more variety to the squad.

Its little wonder that City were the better side over two legs. They are a nightmare opponent for the players we could put out. Last night wasn't a tactical masterclass by any stretch of the imagination. To even suggest so just smacks of over-defending Ole. What it was the best we could do under the circumstances. Keep it tight, ride your luck and try to be clinical when you have the chance to be. City are an incredible pressing team and without forwards that we could rely on as an outlet it was a total mis-match. Th fact that we got a win (sort of) and only went down 3-2 is mainly down to the character of the players IMO - which has to be encouraging.

 

[Dr. StrangeHate]

It's a sad state of affairs when your own fans want your team to lose so they can be justified in their self-loathing and vitriol. We should start a suicide watch group for certain users when we win.

People are disappointed that we got knocked out of the cup. A win is pointless when it leads to elimination.

 

[Big Ben Foster]

Do any of us even know what assistant managers actually do? This all seems like a bunch of lazy speculation to me.

 

[L1nk]

Its hard to be tactically flexible when you only have one type of midfielder, and one type of forward etc. We have seen the team play different styles when we've had a full squad available. Adding Fernandes will lead to changes and it will continue as we add more variety to the squad.

Its little wonder that City were the better side over two legs. They are a nightmare opponent for the players we could put out. Last night wasn't a tactical masterclass by any stretch of the imagination. To even suggest so just smacks of over-defending Ole. What it was the best we could do under the circumstances. Keep it tight, ride your luck and try to be clinical when you have the chance to be. City are an incredible pressing team and without forwards that we could rely on as an outlet it was a total mis-match. Th fact that we got a win (sort of) and only went down 3-2 is mainly down to the character of the players IMO - which has to be encouraging.

The issue is, Ole has not really shown himself to be that tactically flexible throughout his entire managerial career, so you're basically hoping and wishing on something he hasn't really done before, it's like he's on work experience with us. Even with the players we have we should still see something, but our pressing, as you mentioned as an example, should be able to be coached at a fundamental level even with these players, but it's all over the place, very rarely do you see a team press working in tandem, it's either zero press or random players start pressing but because the rest of the team aren't moving in tandem it just works against us unless we get a lucky interception.

 

[Zen86]

Do any of us even know what assistant managers actually do? This all seems like a bunch of lazy speculation to me.

Of course they don’t. Doesn’t stop people having a pop and throwing out the usual bullshit, meaningless comments under this increasingly tiresome pretence that they even remotely know what they’re talking about.

 

[Sky1981]

It's a sad state of affairs when your own fans want your team to lose so they can be justified in their self-loathing and vitriol. We should start a suicide watch group for certain users when we win.

Yesterday wasn't a win, it's a consolation match.

If you don't go through you lose.

 

[Bilbo]

The issue is, Ole has not really shown himself to be that tactically flexible throughout his entire managerial career, so you're basically hoping and wishing on something he hasn't really done before, it's like he's on work experience with us. Even with the players we have we should still see something, but our pressing, as you mentioned as an example, should be able to be coached at a fundamental level even with these players, but it's all over the place, very rarely do you see a team press working in tandem, it's either zero press or random players start pressing but because the rest of the team aren't moving in tandem it just works against us unless we get a lucky interception.

With regards to pressing Guardiola is by a country mile the best I've ever seen. Nobody comes close. I can't say I ever watch any other side and feel overly impressed with the pressing game - some will say Klopps teams but I think they are some distance off what City do to opponents. It has to be an incredibly difficult concept to implement, and you can't do it effectively without mastering the art of the cynical foul either. I think we press okay. Not really any better or worse than the majority of them.

As for Ole I can't say I watched too much of his Cardiff side but find it irrelevant anyway. As for Molde? If you've seen enough of his time there to comment then you're the only one on here. I'll take your word for it. Does it matter to me? No, not really. I like what I'm seeing from him in terms of rebuilding the squad and I think he will continue to get better, like many of our players. The way we have been set up in many big matches has given me enough comfort that the guy knows how to set up a team. He isn't a visionary coach but he'll do for me right now. If we get him a team worthy of our name and he takes them as far as he can, I'll say thanks a lot and welcome in the next one.

 

[Bilbo]

Of course they don’t. Doesn’t stop people having a pop and throwing out the usual bullshit, meaningless comments under this increasingly tiresome pretence that they even remotely know what they’re talking about.

The same percentage of fans who understand what backroom staff actually do is about the same percentage that understand tactics well enough to be truly critical about it. I used to cringe when someone like Jose would mention 'first station passing' or the likes and then everyone would suddenly start using it in their vocabulary.

 

[RedDevil@84]

 

[Paul_Scholes18]

That shows pretty poor management though.
Rather than focusing on the tactical use of the players and what we collectivly should do he takes players off because they have individually not been great
and just replace them with another player and keeping the same structure.

We really didn't change the game at all to chase the winner yesterday. Removing our attackers for others without changing our tactics did make 0 difference.

I think in general we have seen very little from Ole in terms of changing games when we are a goal behind. Against Sheffield is the only time when we changed things around in a positive way. Otherwise he seem to stick with the same tactics even if they do not work.

 

[Bilbo]

That shows pretty poor management though.
Rather than focusing on the tactical use of the players and what we collectivly should do he takes players off because they have individually not been great
and just replace them with another player and keeping the same structure.

We really didn't change the game at all to chase the winner yesterday. Removing our attackers for others without changing our tactics did make 0 difference.

Poor guy really can't win can he

 

[mu4c_20le]

He shouldn't be so harsh on young Jesse

 

[Paul_Scholes18]

Poor guy really can't win can he

Not enough so far. We have not won enough games and we got knocked out yesterday. With better players we can probably do better under him.
Although his management and coaching needs to be better. Hopefully in my view a better manager will take over this summer and use the squad we got much better.

He sets us up tactically very well at times like against City when we beat them in the league, but we are not tactically flexible enough when we need to change things during games. The biggest problem is the coaching behind the scenes for our attacking play. We don't seem to know how to break teams down when we have the ball.
Without the ball we are doing well most of the time.

At the moment we have so few attackers that it is hard to really change much during games. Although I see no creativity to change things between games when it is obvious that Pereira, Lingard etc as number 10 produce nothing and Mata is too slow in defense.

 

[Zen86]

The same percentage of fans who understand what backroom staff actually do is about the same percentage that understand tactics well enough to be truly critical about it. I used to cringe when someone like Jose would mention 'first station passing' or the likes and then everyone would suddenly start using it in their vocabulary.

Poor guy really can't win can he

Agreed. And with an example of what’s become pretty standard bullshittery in between.

 

[Paul_Scholes18]

He shouldn't be so harsh on young Jesse

I don't think just being critical towards the players is the best way to get them to perform better.
Need to give new instructions about how they should play when you are not happy with them.
I guess he does, but often when I watch us it feels like everyone tries the same things over and over.
Lingard as a number 10 doesn't really create much and also look totally clueless about what to do under Ole with the ball.
Which makes him pretty much useless at the moment.

Of course drop players when they do not play well too, but we do not have that many options at the moment.
Could easily drop half the squad otherwise.
Think dropping players work best on big star players that might get too lazy on the pitch if they aren't pushed enough.
Although without options it could be hard to do that. Ole is not even doing that well when he should have done it with De Gea.
Hopefully we can do that with Martial if we get another striker in.

 

[izec]

He just shouldnt play Lingard anymore. He didnt really think a goal against Tranmere would change his fortunes. He is done, stop playing him.

 

[Gehrman]

That shows pretty poor management though.
Rather than focusing on the tactical use of the players and what we collectivly should do he takes players off because they have individually not been great
and just replace them with another player and keeping the same structure.

We really didn't change the game at all to chase the winner yesterday. Removing our attackers for others without changing our tactics did make 0 difference.

I think in general we have seen very little from Ole in terms of changing games when we are a goal behind. Against Sheffield is the only time when we changed things around in a positive way. Otherwise he seem to stick with the same tactics even if they do not work.

We havn't got very many goalscorers in our team. Pogba is our only goalscoring midfielder and he is out. Rashford is out. Lingaard can't score in a brothel. It's all on Martial who has quality but is not that prolific and not getting great service either.

 

[Paul_Scholes18]

We havn't got very many goalscorers in our team. Pogba is our only goalscoring midfielder and he is out. Rashford is out. Lingaard can't score in a brothel. It's all on Martial who has quality but is not that prolific and not getting great service either.

Well true, but if you lack the quality you need to make it up with a more attacking tactic. Not easy against City since they can hurt you if you expose yourself, but we should have tried something different for the last 30 minutes at least.
Even putting Maguire up front or something crazy and playing long balls towards him. Would have been better than nothing. City are not the best team in the air so it could have potentially given us something.

Near the end he did move up, but it was pure desperation rather than a plan.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

That shows pretty poor management though.
Rather than focusing on the tactical use of the players and what we collectively should do he takes players off because they have individually not been great and just replace them with another player and keeping the same structure.

Nar, telling Lingard to cut out the shit or he's off is exactly what a manager should be saying.

 

[Paul_Scholes18]

Nar, telling Lingard to cut out the shit or he's off is exactly what a manager should be saying.

Totally disagree. It feels very brittish though to focus on the players individual performance and try to shout the players going.
Moyes is probably the expert on this.
Rather I want managers that tries to instruct the players what they should do like you see with Pep. Not sure the players understand him
all the time, but he always seems very focused on the tactics on the sideline. Then if the players are not doing what he wants and he got someone that could do a better job he picks him for the next game.

 

[RedDevil@84]

That shows pretty poor management though.
Rather than focusing on the tactical use of the players and what we collectivly should do he takes players off because they have individually not been great
and just replace them with another player and keeping the same structure.

Are you saying Jesse has a secret strength that could be unlocked by a better manager? Or better man manager?

Every manager wants to play his tactics (doesn't really matter if it works or not). And would expect the players to carry that out. Isn't that fair?

 

[AshRK]

Totally disagree. It feels very brittish though to focus on the players individual performance and try to shout the players going.
Moyes is probably the expert on this.
Rather I want managers that tries to instruct the players what they should do like you see with Pep. Not sure the players understand him
all the time, but he always seems very focused on the tactics on the sideline. Then if the players are not doing what he wants and he got someone that could do a better job he picks him for the next game.

You are talking about freaking Jesse. No manager can make Jesse play like Messi.

 

[Wumminator]

Well true, but if you lack the quality you need to make it up with a more attacking tactic. Not easy against City since they can hurt you if you expose yourself, but we should have tried something different for the last 30 minutes at least.
Even putting Maguire up front or something crazy and playing long balls towards him. Would have been better than nothing. City are not the best team in the air so it could have potentially given us something.

Near the end he did move up, but it was pure desperation rather than a plan.

ah yes, putting a big centre back up front to win headers. Tactical genius.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

Totally disagree. It feels very brittish though to focus on the players individual performance and try to shout the players going.

British.... ha ha!!

Mourinho has fecking screamed at players, Beisla and a thousand other coaches all over the World, what utter tripe.

Oh, and hang on @Paul_Scholes18... here's the current best manager in the World, a German at it, but he's frothing at the mouth so...

 

[Gehrman]

ah yes, putting a big centre back up front to win headers. Tactical genius.

That was the whole point of fellaini.

 

[Paul_Scholes18]

Are you saying Jesse has a secret strength that could be unlocked by a better manager? Or better man manager?

Every manager wants to play his tactics (doesn't really matter if it works or not). And would expect the players to carry that out. Isn't that fair?

I am pretty sure Jesse and us as a team could play much better. Lingard played far better under Mourinho even though he never was a world beater.
Just feels like Ole puts the blame on the players over the tactics and coaching. Although I think it is the later that is the bigger problem.
If it was only Lingard playing shit then I would say the problem was him. The problem is that we struggle with pretty much everyone we play.
James started well, but has got worse with time. Greenwood is young, but also look clueless. Martial looks like a cone at times.
Ole seem to shift our number 10 since none of them performs. Although I see no difference in the tactics to help them out knowing they have all struggled to perform.

Some players are so good that they can perform even under terrible managers by individual skills. If we had Neymar and Messi we could still smash teams with any random CAF poster coaching us. Although most players need a good manager to shine and a good structure around them.
Rashford is showing he can perform even with poor instructions just since he can do so much on his own. If Pep had him he would be destroying the league even with less space to counter on.

 

[DJ_21]

he is making slight improvements, you can tell in the way we now play against big teams, we’re keeping hold of the ball and trying to play on the floor unlike with mourinho we hardly seen the ball against the top teams or we just lumped it forward. Also we should see a different side against lower opposition now that we have someone who can create and score in fernandes.

 

[RedDevil@84]

Just feels like Ole puts the blame on the players over the tactics and coaching

Ole doesn't put blame on anyone. At least I don't remember it.
It is usually the fans and the media who throw players under the bus or hype the players to the skies.

 

[zenith]

Deary me, this place has an incredible amount of moaners and cry babies. Just look at the team we had to put out yesterday and the one that city put out. How we managed to come out with a win is a miracle in itself.

Bit by bit, we are building a solid team and in time it'll show on the results. If we had our full strength team playing yesterday, then there is a more than decent chance we would be in the final.

Another thing to notice is how the players are giving it their absolute all for ole. Despite being knackered, they're putting in a solid shift. This is more than I could say of Jose, lvg or moyes.

Sacking him now will be devastating for team morale.

Just hope we somehow stumble onto the winter break in 5 th and manage to get our injured players back. That should put us in with a decent chance of the top 4 or the europa.

 

[AneRu]

He just shouldnt play Lingard anymore. He didnt really think a goal against Tranmere would change his fortunes. He is done, stop playing him.

True, I think Ole should have invested the minutes he wasted on Lingard on a youth player instead. Who knows maybe someone like Gomes would have progressed into a viable first team option. Anyway Lingard will hardly have any complaints of he is dropped and eventually dumped because Ole has given him the infamous long rope.

 

[Paul_Scholes18]

British.... ha ha!!

Mourinho has fecking screamed at players, Beisla and a thousand other coaches all over the World, what utter tripe.

Oh, and hang on @Paul_Scholes18... here's the current best manager in the World, a German at it, but he's frothing at the mouth so...

Klopp has attacked kids and gone mad at people randomly during games. That doesn't make him a better manager for doing it or does it in your view?
If Ole attacks some kids after our next defeat will you support him more?
I am sure Klopp gives good tactical instructions or his assistants do that job at least.
Emotions can be used to push the team in the dressing room and SAF did that a lot. Klopp certainly does that as well and most managers do.
Being angry after defeats and pushing the desire for revenge into your squad can work wonders. Maybe even pushing the team after wins being upset with performances.

Randomly shouting on your players like Ole did is just not really good for anyone. It feels like what Moyes normally did with 0 effect here. Don't think it matter much if he did it or not. Just pointless and not something to celebrate just becuase people hate Lingard here.

 

[JoeyJoJoJrShabadoo]

It is surely only a matter of time before Lingard does the off. Ole has shown incredible patience with him, but the hiring of Raoila rarely leads to the player committing himself long term

 

[Adnan]

Can we now say that Ole has been sufficiently backed and with the addition of Fernandes the midfield isn't a weak point and he needs to deliver now?

 

[RedNed77]

Can we now say that Ole has been sufficiently backed and with the addition of Fernandes the midfield isn't a weak point and he needs to deliver now?

No.

 

[Paul_Scholes18]

Can we now say that Ole has been sufficiently backed and with the addition of Fernandes the midfield isn't a weak point and he needs to deliver now?

We have spent big money. Although could have got more for the sums we have spent overall.
I hope Fernandes can lift us a lot in terms of breaking teams down. Although if the tactics do not improve then we might not get the best out of him.
PL is a harder league for him too so will be interesting to see how he does.