Old Trafford revamp/could be torn down and rebuilt according to Glazer plans
- Thread starter GE
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feck me you are desperate for to be an oil play thing eh?
When I see people like Mbappe can't deny it
All new stadiums feel empty and aren’t built for atmosphere, they’re built for seats and view. It takes years for a stadium to feel like ‘home’ again, and more importantly it takes big moments in big games to birth a stadiums legacy. Until then everything feels ‘plastic’.
I’d rather have all those things instead of a cheese room and more cooperate seating.
I get the arguments in favor of a new stadium. What can I say, Old Trafford is special to me and a new stadium wouldn't be. I totally get it, leg room and unobstructed views are important, but building a new stadium would just dilute my connection with the club. I have been to Wembley and Emirates and they were somewhat soulless experiences.
I suppose if you have to build a new stadium, the best way of doing it is at the same site.
So the surroundings and travel etc are familiar.
Plus they can keep a certain amount of the current ground for nostalgia.
Though I'm not sure how feasible it would be keeping 2 massive stadiums next to each other.
People talk about heavily reducing the original stadium, but then you've got the worst of all worlds - pay huge fee for the new stadium, and a huge bill to deconstruct the current one.
Let's see who the new owners are first!
When it's another lot like the Glazers It'll probably all be a moot point!
I'm torn between renovate/rebuild but I'd switch to rebuild in an instant if we ended up with something like that!
The red brick and the factory look fits in brilliantly with the area too.
It’s whether we can afford to go without the match day revenue from OT that will decide the approach of rebuild vs renovate. Under Glazer we couldn’t. It will need super wealthy owners or a very favourable agreement with City, council, police and the PL/CL fixture list. It would be the best approach construction wise to build to modern standards including green energy solutions.
Just bumping this up, as I'm conscious that the SJR thread has been overtaken by stadium talk.
However, a part of any new owner taking over United has to be the redevelopment of the stadium, and all else it could offer. For me I like the idea of the "Manchester United Village" that Gary Neville spoke about. We should try and get the similar fan experience that the NFL offers their fans, such as at SoFi stadium or the AT&T Stadium of the Dallas Cowboys.
However, a part of any new owner taking over United has to be the redevelopment of the stadium, and all else it could offer. For me I like the idea of the "Manchester United Village" that Gary Neville spoke about. We should try and get the similar fan experience that the NFL offers their fans, such as at SoFi stadium or the AT&T Stadium of the Dallas Cowboys.
Wonder how the imprint of that stadium compares with Old Trafford?
Unfortunately we will still be talking about this in 3-5 years time
Where’s the “Tear it down and move the team to London” option? Someone oughta bite
Hey, by then you will have one of our NFL teams (probably Jacksonville). We'll take United.
And I did see the white. I hate it when people say things like that. I mean in what way? It be the same fans attending games right? And to be honest old trafford has been pretty lifeless the past 10 years.
They tend to be much more spacious than older grounds, in many cases less steep and also the roofs tend to be unnecessarily high, particularly the stadiums with curved roofs, all of which means supporters are less crammed together, there is more empty space between the fans and the roofs and therefore a lot of supporter noise is lost. The most extreme example of that was probably Arsenal going from Highbury to the Emirates. Although in fairness I think obviously the past few years clubs have become more aware of the impact of losing the atmosphere and are doing more to combat it - for example the large single tiered end at the new Spurs ground. Additionally, the roof on Old Trafford currently wasn't build with atmosphere in mind, for example the roof above the Stretford End (and the East Stand too I guess but that's generally much quieter) is set up in such a way that a lot of the noise, particularly from Tier 2, never makes it to the pitch - which is why TRA campaigned for the club to give them the corner around the tunnel, so that they could make use of the South Stand low roof. Which leads me onto my next issue with your post; Old Trafford has probably been better on average over the past 3/4 years than the previous 10 combined. It did go through a stage of being pretty lifeless, particularly for the 75% of games that weren't considered "big", I'll agree, but TRA are doing good work with regards to the atmosphere IMO.
By your own definition all of those things that make a stadium feel like home will come with time, so your entire argument seems to be driven by resistance to change at the expense of having a modern fit for purpose ground thats not falling to bits. Madness.
Love the term 'soulless' when describing new stadia. Suppose OT was a soulless bowl when constructed a over century ago or looked like a modern day identikit ground circa 94.
It’s been mentioned previously and so has playing at the Reebok
It’s been mentioned previously and so has playing at the Reebok
I mean, I’m just saying what everyone is thinking right? We all love Manchester United but does any one of us even like Manchester? No, of course not. Come on you feckers, bite
New stadiums are not soulless if built correctly.
The atmos in some of the world cup games has been great. Surely these days they can build stadiums with comfortable seating that is also able to maximise acoustics and retain the crowd noise.
Of course they can. Just because Emirates and Wembley are awful doesn’t mean that lessons haven’t been learned from them.
It’s fashionable to diss the new White Hart Lane on here as a result of it having been ridiculously bigged up by Spurs fans, but away fans I’ve spoken to reckon the atmosphere is far better than the Emirates, despite the lugubrious football played by the home side.
I’m strongly in favour of knocking it down and starting again. In terms of the arguments against:
-Soulless. Not everything has to be a glass and metal bowl. Build it from Manchester red brick and make the acoustics a key part of the design and it’ll develop its own soul with time and new memories. It’s not like the current ground has the best acoustics for atmosphere anyway.
-We don’t need a cheese room. Notwithstanding the fact that it takes forever to get served anything due to the tiny concourses and thus catering facilities, not everyone is happy with a pie and a pint. Manchester is now over a third Black, Asian or mixed, never mind the fact that we get visitors from all over the world. The food and drink served at the stadium should reflect the people of the city as it is now, not what it was like in the 1950s. If you are vegetarian or halal or don’t drink alcohol you’re woefully underserved by the current catering. Is anything kosher even available for our Jewish supporters?
-History. Every single stand has been torn down and rebuilt on multiple occasions. The pitch has been relaid numerous times and, more recently, been built up to improve drainage. How much of the original stadium is even left? Or even the stadium from before the development to an all-seater?
-Relocation during the build. This is a problem without an easy solution. Maybe build the youth and women’s stadium in the car parks first and then play there whilst Old Trafford is rebuilt?
In terms of arguments for:
-The proximity of the railway line means that any development will almost certainly need to move the pitch to enable a decent sized South Stand. At that point you might as well knock the whole thing down. Moving the railway line will probably cost more than a new stadium. This will also limit any meaningful increase in capacity.
-Knocking down individual stands and rebuilding is unlikely to resolve the legroom problem.
-Going stand by stand will take way longer due to the considerations for ensuring matches can still take place safely and not impinge on the pitch. The cost of this will also be significant.
-Starting from scratch means being able to build something with all the latest technology and also plan for future developments (like VR experiences). A decent phone or data signal would be a good start!
-The drop off the side of the pitch due to the aforementioned building up of the pitch, is dangerous for players and doesn’t help the view of the bottom couple of rows.
-A show of ambition to both fans, sponsors and prospective players. Provided it doesn’t limit investment in players or training facilities, I think this speaks for itself.
-Soulless. Not everything has to be a glass and metal bowl. Build it from Manchester red brick and make the acoustics a key part of the design and it’ll develop its own soul with time and new memories. It’s not like the current ground has the best acoustics for atmosphere anyway.
-We don’t need a cheese room. Notwithstanding the fact that it takes forever to get served anything due to the tiny concourses and thus catering facilities, not everyone is happy with a pie and a pint. Manchester is now over a third Black, Asian or mixed, never mind the fact that we get visitors from all over the world. The food and drink served at the stadium should reflect the people of the city as it is now, not what it was like in the 1950s. If you are vegetarian or halal or don’t drink alcohol you’re woefully underserved by the current catering. Is anything kosher even available for our Jewish supporters?
-History. Every single stand has been torn down and rebuilt on multiple occasions. The pitch has been relaid numerous times and, more recently, been built up to improve drainage. How much of the original stadium is even left? Or even the stadium from before the development to an all-seater?
-Relocation during the build. This is a problem without an easy solution. Maybe build the youth and women’s stadium in the car parks first and then play there whilst Old Trafford is rebuilt?
In terms of arguments for:
-The proximity of the railway line means that any development will almost certainly need to move the pitch to enable a decent sized South Stand. At that point you might as well knock the whole thing down. Moving the railway line will probably cost more than a new stadium. This will also limit any meaningful increase in capacity.
-Knocking down individual stands and rebuilding is unlikely to resolve the legroom problem.
-Going stand by stand will take way longer due to the considerations for ensuring matches can still take place safely and not impinge on the pitch. The cost of this will also be significant.
-Starting from scratch means being able to build something with all the latest technology and also plan for future developments (like VR experiences). A decent phone or data signal would be a good start!
-The drop off the side of the pitch due to the aforementioned building up of the pitch, is dangerous for players and doesn’t help the view of the bottom couple of rows.
-A show of ambition to both fans, sponsors and prospective players. Provided it doesn’t limit investment in players or training facilities, I think this speaks for itself.
Falling to bits!
I never said those things wouldn’t come with time. We have a fit for purpose stadium, we play football there every 2nd week, sometimes twice a week, in fact I’d say it fulfils its purpose expertly. This drive to have ‘modern’ ground stems from having something new and shiny because someone else has one. It’s pointless right now when the squad and training grounds should be the priority.
Falling to bits!
I never said those things wouldn’t come with time. We have a fit for purpose stadium, we play football there every 2nd week, sometimes twice a week, in fact I’d say it fulfils its purpose expertly. This drive to have ‘modern’ ground stems from having something new and shiny because someone else has one. It’s pointless right now when the squad and training grounds should be the priority.
Saying the stadium is fit for purpose is true in the absolute sense that we can host games twice a week, but only by the bare minimum definition. That being said, the roof leaks, the seats are way too cramped, refreshments aren’t adequately available (if you need to queue through and after half time to get a pie and a pint then that’s not good enough), the toilets are minging, the acoustics are average and you can’t get a phone signal. I’d describe that as a public space that is woefully unfit for purpose.
By that logic, McFred are fit for purpose as our starting midfield because they can complete a 90 minute football match in those positions. The fact that they do so pretty terribly would be irrelevant by your logic.
Falling to bits!
I never said those things wouldn’t come with time. We have a fit for purpose stadium, we play football there every 2nd week, sometimes twice a week, in fact I’d say it fulfils its purpose expertly. This drive to have ‘modern’ ground stems from having something new and shiny because someone else has one. It’s pointless right now when the squad and training grounds should be the priority.
Spot on
I think there's only 1 real option, build a new stadium in the car park across from the current one and then knock the existing one down, there shouldn't be any sentimentally, the current stadium has no resemblance to the one I went to in the 70's, 80's and beyond.
Whether you like it or not the match going audience of today doesn't want a cramped seat, pie and a pint, piss trickling down their leg or a drip on their head
Exactly. Liverpool is miles better. Why listen to the Happy Mondays when you can listen to The Beatles.
I'm not sure how you could improve leg room and have bigger seats without knocking each stand down.
Wembley at it's widest and longest points. It's known for it's legroom and size of the footprint.
I think we've space for something similarly sized in the land we've got, I dunno if someone could place it accurately to see?
You know it’s 2022 when footy fans are complaining about leg room . It’s not test cricket ffs.
As for “falling to bits”
. It’s not test cricket ffs.As for “falling to bits”
You know it’s 2022 when footy fans are complaining about leg room
As for “falling to bits”
You're really not letting it drop are you? The stadium is in a real bad way and the facilities are light years behind some of the competition too.
What's so bad about getting a new stadium? I think it would be amazing to have a a bigger more modern stadium.
The people complaining about leg room don't go, it's obvious, some bloke the other day was complaining about the lack of 'shopping' opportunities at OT for his family and a 15 minute walk to Salford Qauys was too much. They also have no idea where this extra leg room is going to come from, to give everyone extra leg room you'll have to watch the match from space if you're anywhere past half way up the stand.You know it’s 2022 when footy fans are complaining about leg room
As for “falling to bits”
It’s not falling apart, not in the slightest.
And I spent a good few years crammed behind a barrier in the old stretty, my best footy at atmosphere experience in a long long time was in Dortmund’s yellow wall. Most of us freeze our balls off stood on a sideline watching our mates, our teams or our kids on a Saturday or Sunday.
I think desperately wanting “comfort” at a 90 football match in something to poke a little fun at.
And no-one is light years behind, because no-one is “light years ahead”, only that colts stadium looks of that standard to me. I’ve been in tonnes of grounds over Europe and yet to see one “light years ahead”.
OT is fine. Just needs a new coat of paint. Maybe give it a fresh new look. Green?
Yeah, I get the leg room complaints with first class cricket which lasts 7 hours or so but I do struggle to see the necessity for a game that lasts at the very most 2 hours. It’s no worse than getting on a plane for instance. I would prefer a little more room but it’s far from a deal breaker.You know it’s 2022 when footy fans are complaining about leg room
As for “falling to bits”
It needs a bit of tlc, not ripping down to add an outlet mall on top of the one 15 minute walk away, or the one 20 minutes away on the tram, or the town centre 25 minutes away on the tram in the opposite direction.
People seem to want some hideous LED covered bowl that’s identical to countless other soulless stadiums because “that’s what the future looks like”. As you say in the posts afterwards of those mentioned only that Indianapolis stadium looks anything like what would even be palatable.
Bunch of short-arses don't think leg room is an issue... They probably complain about people standing up though
The South Stand is an absolute shambles mate and can't really be redeveloped either due to the train line.
New stadium please. Spending hundreds of millions developing the existing one is just kicking the can down the road. I'd rather have a shiny new 85,000 - 90,000 seater which blows your socks off.
I'd leave the South Stand as it is and redevelop the rest.
Agreed and the advantage of building a new stadium over the Old Trafford car park is we could continue to play at the current stadium while its built.
It'll forever look out of place and the facilities won't get upgraded though.
Leg room is something that needs to be fixed and the only way to do that is build a new stadium