Ode to Kaka

[bringbackbebe]

Not sure why an appreciation for a player can't proceed without immediately comparing him to another to put him down? Kaka was a great player and definitely the best player in the world circa 2007. He needed to be appreciated and Madrid move killed his soul.

 

[LA BOMBA]

Not sure why an appreciation for a player can't proceed without immediately comparing him to another to put him down? Kaka was a great player and definitely the best player in the world circa 2007. He needed to be appreciated and Madrid move killed his soul.

I was not putting down Kaka, whom I rate as having a better career overall in terms of purely football achievements than Adriano, I just commented on how unfortunate he is that he is ultimately going to be remembered less than the latter. It's a relevant comparison since both were born in the same year (1982) and both were from Brazil, and it puts Kaka's career in better perspective.

I didn't mean to start any debate since I didn't think anyone could even dispute that Adriano is the bigger star in Brazil, and that's ultimately where their legacy matters the most, since in 20-30 years time no one is going to care about either of them except Brazilians, Inter/Milan fans and rare football nerds.

Unless you are a Messi or Ronaldo type of megastar, football fans will eventually forget you unless you become a legend in their club or country. Adriano is a legend in Brazil and also a legend of two clubs, Flamengo and Inter. Kaka is not really seen as a legend of any team, even in that Milan team he is greatly overshadowed in terms of legendary status by the players he played with, and he was there for a relatively short time.

His move to Real Madrid was indeed very poor for his legacy. If he stayed at Milan during their dark years he might have gone down as a Milan legend like Seedorf did.

He was also unfortunate to not do anything for Brazil.

Also Adriano it's not a church/frat boy so he would logically be more "appealing" to the majority of Brazilians. This combination is very powerful in SA countries in general, you wouldn't believe till not many years ago how beloved Cannigia was and still is, even thye Press might put him in a Top 10 ever argie players with no Sivori, or Di Stefano and Cannigia in it. I guess that sthg similar happens with Adriano in Brazil with the addition that in Adriano's case, at some point he totally showed his best level in a regular way and he was quite the fecking player.

I think part of the appeal of Adriano is that unlike many other Brazilian players who wasted their careers partying and drinking, he actually had a legitimate reason for it, because of the tragic death of his father which just completely destroyed him mentally.

 

[devaneios]

The thing with Brazilian football more than any country, it's that you have to "deliver" for the NT (not fair, heavily romanticized, but it is what it is). The way Adriano made Brazil win the Copa in 2004 was so clutch that it won't be forgotten. On the other hand, Kaka never could replicate his best version (for various reasons, many far from his fault) for Brazil.

I didn't take it badly at all, but it is funny given how your country treated Messi until that game against Ecuador, in 2018. And he was always very good for the NT, unlike some Brazilian stars.

The only big Brazilian player that really had his legacy (unfairly)affected by that is Zico, to be honest. Also, many players that failed in WC or not even played much for the NT are highly praised, even more than some champions. Falcão, Sócrates, Djalminha and Alex, for example, are more celebrated here than players like Bebeto, Dunga or Jairzinho, who were way more important regarding the Seleção. Delivering memorable moments for the country will obviously give you a special fondness, but it's far from being the decisive aspect of how a player is regarded, in most cases at least.

 

[Fobal]

I didn't take it badly at all, but it is funny given how your country treated Messi until that game against Ecuador, in 2018. And he was always very good for the NT, unlike some Brazilian stars.

The only big Brazilian player that really had his legacy (unfairly)affected by that is Zico, to be honest. Also, many players that failed in WC or not even played much for the NT are highly praised, even more than some champions. Falcão, Sócrates, Djalminha and Alex, for example, are more celebrated here than players like Bebeto, Dunga or Jairzinho, who were way more important regarding the Seleção. Delivering memorable moments for the country will obviously give you a special fondness, but it's far from being the decisive aspect of how a player is regarded, in most cases at least.

It wasn't meant as a bad comment at all, it seems that you took an unncessary defensive position. In fact "the more than any country" it's a compliment, that has to do with being Penta, with the pressure of newer gens to be at the level of prior generations of phenoms or geniuses winning titles for the NT.

For the record I even find it sillier in Argentina, but we both know that sadly it's what happens.

The way the Press acts with some of our best players in both countries (and many fans too) is sad as fvck.

Of course time heals and many players from teams that at least deliver in perfomance like the 82 team won't be attacked, but the major figures among the NT, the ones deemed to be the star, like Ney, Zico, even Rivaldo prior to 2002 and Kaka would have a rough time if they do not "deliver", a very silly term most of times regarding what yellow Press with agendas and stupid fans thinsk delivering is.

In any case I've mentioned that aspect because at that point when Rivaldo had such a great WC, he took some distance from Kaka that already was less appealling with his frat boy aura and less time in the Brazilain league (to make it worse we know how club rivalry also has its good share of agendas against players from rivals clubs)

 

[devaneios]

"I didn't take it badly at all"

I'll try the last sentence next time...

 

[Fobal]

"I didn't take it badly at all"

I'll try the last sentence next time...

"but it is funny given how your country treated Messi until that game against Ecuador"

that's why I just add a clarification that it was actually a "compliment", or better say that I find way more understandable that Brasil more than any other country could go sometimes over the top extremely nasty with their NTs and players if they do not win silverware (and the other way around if they do)

PD: BTW Messi always had people against him, but most of the people were always with him, after WC2014 the enviroment was a lot calmer and respectful, but the two Copas Finals were used by some media with agendas and "termos" (stupid fans) to attack in a very over the top way the little fella.