I'd add that sometimes it's a bit less of a gamble than at other times. Andy Carroll was obviously a big lumbering oaf who was never going to be anything but a mid-table player because his most important asset was his size. Signing him wasn't a gamble, it was lunacy. While signing Roy Keane was as close to a sure bet as it gets, even though he had played for a relegated team.
Not good enough for Manchester United
- Thread starter Zlatattack
- Start date
Easy first test would be to evaluate their abilities on the ball. Not difficult to do. Can they receive and pass the ball?
I second this notion.
Don't think we are going to play possessionbased football under the current management. Receive the ball and pass it to the oppositions centreback, then gung-ho pressing and hope we win the ball close to their goal. Some random movement in behind their line and a lucky pass, and we might score.
This is the worst thing about the caf for me, the conviction in which a lot of fans on here tell us who isn't good enough for a team that really isn't that good to start with.
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Just look at how the best performing teams play: play possession, control games and being able to press high.
How can we make our team play this way?
1. Get a DoF/Technical director with experience, having been part of rebuilds and teams playing possessionbased football(can identify players suited to this style).
2. Hire a manager prefering this style of play with a good trackrecord of improving players. (might need to be patient for the right candidate to be available/willing, but squad can be changed without the "ideal" manager in place).
3. DoF and Manager ++ evaluates which players in the team are suited to this style of play(not many) and which can be developed into suiting this style of play(not many).
4. Create a transferstrategy for how to rebuild the squad based on who we do not need and who are available for a sensible price, and what we can afford to use of funds.
5. Give it time.
Trying to sign up and comers hasn't worked either.
There's something seriously wrong with the scouting system at the club. How is it that the majority of the Caf are more clued up than them. Most people here wanted Fabinho and not Fred, plenty didn't want Lukaku.
I wouldn't say that, the problem is that we spend too much on the ones we pick. When it comes to up and comers the key is volume, you need to spend reasonably on a several players and do it often, we seem to think that we will find gold at the first attempt. In that sense selling Pogba is probably a good idea because we can use the money that he will generate and if we don't sell we will most likely waste his on field value by surrounding him with players that aren't ready.
I think that we should target the likes of Maddison, Ndombélé, Jovic and their equivalents every summer until some sticks and we should also be intransigent when it comes to fees, if someone ask for silly fees we should move quickly to other target and let other executives know that we are dancing to our own tune, at the moment we look like flippin' dancing bears in a small russian town.
How many here would have taken a punt on these two in 2016.
No one would have put down Firmino, Wijnaldum, Milner, Robertson, or even Salah as the "quality needed" to challenge City's riches with Agüero, Silva and KdB before they were bought. The fact of the matter is that nothing gets proven to be off base when it comes to football more than fans evaluations of a player's level or more accurately, potential level.
The idea that you have to buy a player that's good enough now is nonsense anyway. What happened to coaching and developing him to be good enough?
Ronaldo wasn't good enough for United when he came here. Sterling of Liverpool wasn't good enough for City when he went there. Nobody in Liverpool squad bar maybe Allison and Van Dijk we're good enough to perform at the level they're showing now until Klopp got his hands on them.
Over the last 6-7 years, we've taken proven, quality players and turned them to shit far more often than we've taken a raw, unproven talent and turned them into a star.
Ronaldo wasn't good enough for United when he came here. Sterling of Liverpool wasn't good enough for City when he went there. Nobody in Liverpool squad bar maybe Allison and Van Dijk we're good enough to perform at the level they're showing now until Klopp got his hands on them.
Over the last 6-7 years, we've taken proven, quality players and turned them to shit far more often than we've taken a raw, unproven talent and turned them into a star.
I’ll take that, whatever fecking works at this stage
We have a fan base full of snobs.
If I don't know a player very well myself, but they get flat out rejected by some on here it's sparks my interest in them even more. Happened with Fabiano and Bernardo when we were first linked
If I don't know a player very well myself, but they get flat out rejected by some on here it's sparks my interest in them even more. Happened with Fabiano and Bernardo when we were first linked
Except it’s not true and someone who might not actually watch them play can delude with this theory. Both of them have been been excellent servants throughout their time respectively. Wiljaldum has been excellent for Liverpool and Moura as well for Spurs.
We can improve our players stamina easily over the summer, but the issue is that a number of our players are so limited on the ball and what they do with it that the time it would take for them to achieve a respectable ability with it (assuming this can be done) is simply not worth it for a majority of them.
Agree. Amazing last night but he isn't that good. That said, worth the £25m fee for that match alone.
Yes let's sign any premier league player who comes into a bit of form.
Lingard should play for a club which tries to get 10th place in a good season and avoid relegation during a bad season. Moura should play for top 6 team... Moura would have been a massive upgrade over Lingard and so would Shaqiri have been.
Nobody says he is that good really, he isn’t that good. But for 25m in 2018 you don’t get that good. He would have been a much better option than Mata/Lingard or anyone we can put on that troublesome RM/RW.
De Gea, Romero, Pereira, Rafael, Dalot, Tuanzebe, Lindelof, Blind, Bailly, Shaw, Mitchell, Herrera, Schneiderlin, Mata, Pogba, Memphis, Di Maria, Martial, Rashford, Falcao, Ibra, Gomes, Chong, McTominay, Garner
There is a squad of players we either have, or could still have had we had a decent decision making structure behind the scenes at the club over the last few years.
With a properly laid out playing style and joined up thinking between the non-playing staff, none of the other shite our squad is infected with and maybe a couple of big signings (a powerful centre back and a top class striker to replace the ageing Zlatan and Falcao), Pep, Klopp or Poch could have that lot playing like a proper team right now.
Moura would be a terrific option off the bench. no one is saying he's starter material. he's barely starter material for Spurs. but he still has something about him, more than the likes of Lingard.
Problem is - we hardly have a first team to care about the squad overall.
We should have kept better players for the squad, but every manager chucks these squad players away to build their first team - only to find that the next manager uses the ex first team players as the squad players next.
We should have kept better players for the squad, but every manager chucks these squad players away to build their first team - only to find that the next manager uses the ex first team players as the squad players next.
Did you just say that Wijnaldum has been a mediocre signing for Liverpool? He has been a useful and consistent servant for them and provided important moments often. It seems you haven't really looked at performances of certain players other than maybe the top strikers.
Also we have a bad sense of telling what talent is good enough. Look at key players like Salah, Mane or even Firminho. We don't even look at players of that profile. We try to get these big money Galacticos and it's ended in abject failure.
Go to any Real Madrid forum, search for "Cristiano Ronaldo" and take a look in the vast majority of comments posted there in past years... Go to Juventuz and see what they say about Pjanic, AlexSandro, Dybala..Read Pogba thread in the Redcafe. When a team is not winning fans will attack players that are supposed to produce something. When United lose a game Rashford/Pogba/Martial threads are much more actives than Sanchez or Young.
The point you make would be a fair one IF I agreed with your assessment of those players, which I don't tbh
Maguire is twice as good as any of our CBs. Lindelof's poise with Smalling's defensive abilities. I dispute people have only noted Wijnaldum as of this week and again would be fantastic in our side
I am a big fan of Data. My other main hobby is horse racing and I compile my own times and figures. What is there in black and white takes all the hyperbole and guesswork out of it. Liverpool took this approach with Edwards. If you haven't already, read some articles on him. Its not a coincidence they went from laughing stock in the transfer market to having an insane hit rate since he was appointed
We spend too much on them because Woodward keeps telling everyone we have cash to burn. I agree that signing lots of youngster and hope for some to work and just sell the rest is a workable model. Chelsea have been at it for years.
That's true, but yet somehow we consistently get it wrong, Bailly, Fred, & co were all considered potential to be quality needed, yet we all know how it's turned out
Just because Lingard isn't good enough doesn't mean we should be signing players who are marginally better.
9 former Southampton professionals(including Pochettino) are part of the squads that will be in the Champions League final; starters and squad players. Sadio Mane, VVD starting for Liverpool and Victor Wanyama and Alderweireld for Tottenham.
Let's BUY Southampton's scouts
People need to stop being bloody arrogant and realize that we have Lingard and Mata playing as our RW. Zaha himself is world class compared to the crap we have.
Interestingly a large amount of players have spent significant time in France, Scotland and Netherlands. These are leagues where players will generally be cheap.
Would people be happy with a summer where we sign Tierney, Ndombélé, Van de Beek, Pépé and get Odriozola on loan?
Of course, Ndombele is exactly what we need in the midfield (battle, box to box, workrate, drive, clause control under pressure, skill, good position awarness), pepe is a good right winger way better than lindgard and with an en product, van de beek can go elsewere he look good because of ajax system
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The following players are not and have never been good enough for United if we are serious about challenging for the PL and the CL;
Could be good enough with the correct pre season, training, tactical coaching and 6 or 7 exceptional addictions.
United will need a major purge this Summer and must invest correctly we will definitely lose either De Gea and or Pogba to help bank roll the major revamp needed. From the 10 listed above, only 6 or 7 will leave at best so strap yourself in for roller coaster Summer!
- Defence - Phil Jones, Mateo Darmian, Ashley Young, Marcus Rojo, Antonio Valencia (5)
- Midfield - Fred, Nemanja Matic, Andreas Pereira (3)
- Strikers - Romelu Lukaku, Alexis Sanchez. (2)
Could be good enough with the correct pre season, training, tactical coaching and 6 or 7 exceptional addictions.
United will need a major purge this Summer and must invest correctly we will definitely lose either De Gea and or Pogba to help bank roll the major revamp needed. From the 10 listed above, only 6 or 7 will leave at best so strap yourself in for roller coaster Summer!
Manchester United's new Number 7 - Types of players not good enough for us:
1. Players that play for Premier league teams outside the top 4.
2. Players that don't play for the teams in the last 16 of the Champions League.
3. Players who play for clubs in the last 16 of the Champions League, or the top 4 in the Premier League, that their clubs are prepared to sell.
4. Players City don't want.
5. Players City say they don't want.
6. Players who have suffered an injury.
7. Players who play for us.
1. Players that play for Premier league teams outside the top 4.
2. Players that don't play for the teams in the last 16 of the Champions League.
3. Players who play for clubs in the last 16 of the Champions League, or the top 4 in the Premier League, that their clubs are prepared to sell.
4. Players City don't want.
5. Players City say they don't want.
6. Players who have suffered an injury.
7. Players who play for us.
The idea that Matic, Sanchez, and particularly Antonio Valencia, have "never been good enough" is just disrespectful. Perhaps you meant to word it differently.
Yep, it's almost as if the scouting system is a vital part of a club, and a good scouting system is made up actual experts!
Yeah and LVG was linked with buying Mane during that January window I recall. Then things went south as they usually do with us
You mean like De Bruyne and Salah?
I was very vocal on my admiration for Wijnaldum when he was at Newcastle. Really wanted us to sign him, and he’d be brilliant here.
That was more on Mourinho than their scouting policies. At least they were able to identify these players rather than completely over looking them.