Yeah, I like that as well
Norway on verge of abolishing VAR
- Thread starter Pogue Mahone
- Start date
Said this for ages. If we have to keep var, at least move to a challenge system where it stays out of the game until the coach chooses to bring it in. None of this arbitrary crap for deciding what does and what doesn’t get reviewed, as it’s basically a lottery.
Yup thats the way to do it. But the VAR officials have to independent of the PGMOL.
This is the biggest fix no matter the approach, it needs to be handled like a professional outfit rather than an old boys' club looking out for each other
I think the fans of these clubs getting their will, will regret it soon enough. The perfect goal wrongly disallowed for offside, or a dive leading to a penalty against. Although VAR is not perfect, I think people have forgotten how it was without.
These things keep happening with VAR in Norway. That’s (partly) why the opposition is so strong!
Like in any country, I suppose. As I said, it's not perfect, but there are still far less wrong decision with than without.
Good for them; prove a point. VAR will forever be a failed project as long as humans are involved in implementing it.
I’m not even anti-VAR, but the way it’s been implemented in Norway has been half arsed at best. They couldn’t have done worse even if they tried. Did I mention goal line technology is not a thing in Norway? Why not start there?
They’re happening with VAR in the Premier League too!
Perhaps the Norwegian league is better suited to the 'football video support' system trialled at the u20 women's world cup recently.
I actually think FVS is the way forward with coaches asking for a review but rather than the on field ref simply reviewing the footage they should have two independent revs review the footage without knowing the original decision of the onfield ref. Decision to be made in 30 seconds so no over analyzing super slo-mos.
If both come to different decision than on field refs decision is overturned. If not original decision stands. If all refs agree managers review is lost.
Surely that is the best way forward?
I actually think FVS is the way forward with coaches asking for a review but rather than the on field ref simply reviewing the footage they should have two independent revs review the footage without knowing the original decision of the onfield ref. Decision to be made in 30 seconds so no over analyzing super slo-mos.
If both come to different decision than on field refs decision is overturned. If not original decision stands. If all refs agree managers review is lost.
Surely that is the best way forward?
This is THE problem.
Look at the throat grabbing as an example. Rodri and Casemiro get straight red carded for grabbing another players throat whereas Havertz and Felipe don't even get a yellow for the same fecking thing.
Out of curiosity, didn't you love football before VAR?
To me the answer is simple, the game was great before. Roll it back and try it out wouldn't hurt anyone really.
No I didn't.
Seriously, as much as there have been mishaps with var, it has also got things correct most of the time. It's not the system itself that's the problem but the utilisation. VAR just shows a replay of what happened but the refs are misusing it.
Sure, VAR isn’t perfect anywhere. But it’s not going away in Norway for a while either, no matter what the headlines say.
Interesting. To me, injustice should be part of football. The great thing about football is that it should mirror the feelings of society. That's why it's been popular for decades imo. The best memories and what made me watch Premier League was the tackles, the brutality, the fights, the dirty stuff some players could get away with while being labelled idiots and bad guys. The rivalry. From Dirty Leeds to diving spanish teams. Football now has no bad guys, just guys. No stories, just football.
VAR took away the Materazzi's, the Keane's, the Inzaghi's who'd dive for a penalty and you'd hate them for it. Now VAR is what we look for in the story of villain vs hero.
At this point I just assume its the ref cartel covering up their incompetence combined with a bit of corruption. I don't think these refs are capable of the transparency shown in rugby because it would expose them
I disagree injustice shouldn't be apart of the sport. We can't prevent every injustice but we can reduce its frequency.
In the past car wasn't there and those things happened but now it is and it'll make other things happen.
Of course injustice shouldn't be what you aim for - there should just be room for it, while the refs try their best to avoid it (without VAR). One of the most vivid memories in the World Cup was the hand of god. These are the moments I love to have in the sport. To see people go as far as they can, taking the chance of being sent off, just to win. To play by every trick in the book.
With VAR you get injustice too, it's just a much more boring one - with United (and many more), it seems endless with biased VAR decisions these years. Each to their own I guess. At least the VAR-heads could try and mix up the format a little and try new things like every team having 1-2 x VAR-challenges. Current format is crap due to crap refereeing and bias. They could at least be completely transparent (clear explanations) about why an incident was bought up or wasn't.
Tell us more about how VAR corrects bullshit decisions…
And if they ever manage to define those rules in a way which suits VAR and proper analysis of every incident, then maybe it will make sense for football. But while the end result from using VAR is just as inconsistant as simply relying upon the ref on the pitch, it simply isn't worth all the downsides which ruin the experience of watching football.
It's a great tool that's been so poorly implemented you wonder whether the referees set out to sabotage it.
I'd like to see it remain for offsides and handballs but they can't be trusted to use it properly with fouls.
I'd like to see it remain for offsides and handballs but they can't be trusted to use it properly with fouls.
I honestly never even considered the existence of such a take. I get what you are saying of course but I think the hand of god is so famous because it was a rule break in such a high pressure situation. From what I remember it was always a bit of a stain on Maradona, wasn't it? Games have rules and those rules should be enforced. What you are describing sounds a bit like WWE wrestling, where the story is the main thing, not the sport. Any chance you loved Fifa momentum back then??
Why do you want to put my view on football into the category of WWE wrestling? Just take my view, digest it, accept we might have different opinions on what feelings football should be able to invole/mirror. Don’t compare it with ridiculous stuff.
It wasn't meant as ridicule mate, sorry if it came across like that. No intent to compare it with WWE, that was what popped into my head when I read your post about the entertainment aspect, the story aspect if you will.
Implement automated offsides and then abolish VAR. Too many bad decisions not being overturned and too many goals being ruled out for the slightest infraction.
Cheers. The way I view it, football already mirrored feelings of real life pretty well before VAR, which is why the sport has been as popular as it’s been Worldwide. It connected with the fans. It was live, instinctive and in the moment.
The goal is always to aim for justice and good refereeing, but it’s the 0.01% flaw in humans that makes us humans - which is why the hand of god is iconic. When the dirty side of humans is accepted as part of life and seen in football, that is what to me constitutes great football and entertainment. Stories if you will.
We all grew up hating Arsenal because of idiots like Keown shouting abuse into Ruud’s face. Idiotic maneuvres makes you feel something about the game you watch. It creates villains and therefore the heroes you like. Vieira vs Keane and all that rivalry is a good example too. VAR sanitizes the players behaviours and numbs the game.
For me the question of whether it should be kept comes down to the following: is the marginal increase in accuracy of officiating decisions worth it at the cost of diluting the euphoria of every single goal celebration?
I feel like there is a very easy way to fix most of the problems with VAR (as well as an added bonus!):
1. Stop using it for offside
Offside calls was never as important as red card and penalty situations, in my opinion. By removing VAR from offside calls fans can feel safe celebrating most goals again. I reckon we will have instant offside call technology (kind of like goal line technology) in 5-10 years time. And then we're golden!
2. Give the VAR team more authority
No more referees running to watch a stupid screen. Every serious situation should be taken to a vote in the VAR room. If it's 2 votes against 1 for instance, then that is the final call even if it goes against the original call. End of discussion.
3. Bookings for diving
If a player clearly dives and the VAR team spots it, then they have the authority to book the player by notifying the referee who in return will hand out the yellow (or even red) card the next time the game stops.
By implementing the 3 rules above we have effectively removed most serious errors without killing the pace and passion of the game. There will also be less diving, hopefully!
1. Stop using it for offside
Offside calls was never as important as red card and penalty situations, in my opinion. By removing VAR from offside calls fans can feel safe celebrating most goals again. I reckon we will have instant offside call technology (kind of like goal line technology) in 5-10 years time. And then we're golden!
2. Give the VAR team more authority
No more referees running to watch a stupid screen. Every serious situation should be taken to a vote in the VAR room. If it's 2 votes against 1 for instance, then that is the final call even if it goes against the original call. End of discussion.
3. Bookings for diving
If a player clearly dives and the VAR team spots it, then they have the authority to book the player by notifying the referee who in return will hand out the yellow (or even red) card the next time the game stops.
By implementing the 3 rules above we have effectively removed most serious errors without killing the pace and passion of the game. There will also be less diving, hopefully!
Listening to a Noggie discussing this on a podcast. Apparently there’s a clear age divide in the vote. Old fecks like me are pro-VAR it’s the young ‘uns who hate it. A rare example of young men screaming at clouds.
The coaches challenge, although sounds good, lets face it, it'll still be shit.
Coach will call a challenge which should be right, the buffoons on VAR will still get it wrong and you'll lose a sub.
Coach will call a challenge which should be right, the buffoons on VAR will still get it wrong and you'll lose a sub.
They're never going to define everything but they could make some of them much better, the hadball one for example, if you accidentally handle the ball and then score it's chalked off, accidentally handle the ball but pass to your team mate who shoots and scores that's allowed, for offsides they could determine a single part of the body as a point of reference to determine of you are offside or not
I've never understood why simple changes aren't implemented with VAR: set a maximum 30 seconds of review or maximum 3 replays, before play has to restart. Replays can be no slower than 0.75x speed. If something is clear and obvious, then by definition it shouldn't take a long time to review.
Yeah I really don't like that rule. Handball is fine, unless it's the last touch? Meh, surely we should aim higher if we have to use replays?
That would certainly help to simplify offsides. I like this. It also might help with implementing automatic offsides, a factual decision which hopefully, in the near future, will be based upon better quality images than they are currently.
The thing is, how do you clarify or define what happened tonight(the DeLigt no goal and the push on Maguire)? Neither should be a foul? Or both? When is pushing allowed? Is it okay as long as not with a straight arm(like the Maguire one, 2 straight arms in fact)? Can it only be a foul if someone ends up on the floor? That surely shouldn't be the qualifier. By the rules, I'd say the opposite call should have been made on both of those goals tonight. So if VAR can't even manage to treat similar incidents equally within the same game, how is it helping?
Same goes for trips and other types of contact. How can we possibly codify what constitutes significant contact. There isn't an algorithm that can determine how much contact is required to unfairly disrupt a player.
VAR was introduced, at least in part, because of high profile incidents like the Henry handball. Mission creep and a general shrugging of the shoulders in deference to technology has lead to the mess we see weekly. We're still left with the same arguments as we've always had, but now we can't properly celebrate a goal because it could be chalked off up to 5 minutes later. We have to wait while marginal decisions are (randomly)scrutinised for ages, still far too often leading to ridiculous calls that simply don't stand up to comparison to the relevant rules or application of said rules at other times. And on top of that, we've given refs with agendas more opportunity to 'manage the game'. It's simply not worth it.
Well done Norway, I hope they follow through with this sensible decision.
I disagree since that 30 seconds would become pedantic.
I genuinely believe that the best possible implementation is through a cricket and tennis style challenge and review system. Give the team captains the power to challenge decisions (give 2 to each team per match). If they know a potential toenail offside in a goal they conceded, then they have to call out the player who was supposedly offside. This would potentially remove the experience where we don’t know but dread how a goal can still be ruled out even if there wasn’t something obvious. Refs would still feck up, but at least the power shifts towards the players to take the right call.
I didn't get to see the game so can't comment but that's not really something you can legislate for, same with trips/fouls
The VAR time thing is something they absolutely need to sort out and the VAR lot should be seperate, none of these pally ex-refs, they should employ a team of people and train them to do the job
No prior experience needed and the only skills required is to be able to explain why they decided whatever they decided and have common sense, aside from fact based decisons such as offside, (not the interfering bit) the only thing they should do is advise the ref to look at the screen show the relevant angles in real time, and rule for him/her self
My biggest issue with VAR is that's it's quick to get involved to disallow goals but nowhere to be seen when perfectly fine goals are ruled out on field.
I like VAR and don’t get the issue at all. I believe one of the reason it’s unpopular with some is that it reveals how little they understand about the rules.
I agree with many who have suggested that the rules need to be clarified/simplified. The measurement of "intent" is impossible and will always be a problem.
We spend a lot of time drawing lines to determine off-side but do we ever look at the timing of the ball/boot contact that launched the ball?
Maybe we should introduce a system where if the ref's decision is overturned by an independent review the ref gets a yellow card. Two yellow cards - you're off!
We spend a lot of time drawing lines to determine off-side but do we ever look at the timing of the ball/boot contact that launched the ball?
Maybe we should introduce a system where if the ref's decision is overturned by an independent review the ref gets a yellow card. Two yellow cards - you're off!