Northern Ireland Thread

InLevyITrust said:
I think that’s a little simplistic, British troops and government riled up the RA , so yeah il give you that. Loyalist paramilitaries were a result of the ra and British state forces clashing. Loyalist paramilitaries often get the blame but I can see why paramilitaries on both sides raised their heads. To say the UVF/UDA/LVF were some sort of accelerant is a bit of an easy way out. Did the IRA/INLA not “attack” Protestant civilians? Really? Probably one of the only Unionist politicians who I respect was a Loyalist paramilitary and if he was still alive today NI would be a better place, if you can name him il happily debate it with you further.
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I’m too young to remember, but I know of the fella you’re talking about, his name escapes me at the minute. Reason I know is that an older man I know said to me the other night that he was in one of the loyalist groups but was actually a good man and died too young, which shocked me because the man I was with would be a big republican, was unusual for him to have a nice word to say about a loyalist.
 
Eire Red United said:
I’m too young to remember, but I know of the fella you’re talking about, his name escapes me at the minute. Reason I know is that an older man I know said to me the other night that he was in one of the loyalist groups but was actually a good man and died too young, which shocked me because the man I was with would be a big republican, was unusual for him to have a nice word to say about a loyalist.
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David Ervine, progressive and inclusive, the real name behind the the Union side of the GFA. Often goes unmentioned as he was a paramilitary and looked down on by some other unionist politicians. Had he been alive today I feel things could be very different now.
 
Eire Red United said:
Hopefully they won’t be sponsored by the British government this time.

Even so they will almost certainly attack innocent Catholics round Belfast, easy targets and if it happens, as I’ve said before the likes of Bryson should do time for inciting violence and Nolan should be in hot water too for giving vermin like that airtime.
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I agree with you about Bryson but the people most at risk if the Loyalists kick off are the people in their own community who they bully and terrorise on a daily basis.
 
InLevyITrust said:
Operation Banner?

As for the Parachute regiment, of all regiments, being deployed as some peacekeeping guard? I think most people should and would question that.
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That's not what happened at the very start though - as time went on and the likes of Bloody Sunday, etc. occurred the entire thing changed.
 
InLevyITrust said:
Operation Banner?

As for the Parachute regiment, of all regiments, being deployed as some peacekeeping guard? I think most people should and would question that.
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Another documentary series i know but the series @Buster15 was talking about on the last page, Spotlight On The Troubles: A Secret History gives a good summary of the events that caused the troubles to break out and escalate.
 
stevoc said:
Another documentary series i know but the series @Buster15 was talking about on the last page, Spotlight On The Troubles: A Secret History gives a good summary of the events that caused the troubles to break out and escalate.
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Excellent series. On the para’s, theres a bit in one of the episodes in that series where apparently one of the top men in the army was completely against using the paras to keep peace here.
 
InLevyITrust said:
David Ervine, progressive and inclusive, the real name behind the the Union side of the GFA. Often goes unmentioned as he was a paramilitary and looked down on by some other unionist politicians. Had he been alive today I feel things could be very different now.
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He was a good man and an excellent speaker . He was a socialist too I believe
 
Eire Red United said:
Excellent series. On the para’s, theres a bit in one of the episodes in that series where apparently one of the top men in the army was completely against using the paras to keep peace here.
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Yeah i believe it was the commander of Derry at the time they had managed to maintain a relative peace there and he probably knew full well why the Paras were being sent into Derry.

InLevyITrust said:
David Ervine, progressive and inclusive, the real name behind the the Union side of the GFA. Often goes unmentioned as he was a paramilitary and looked down on by some other unionist politicians. Had he been alive today I feel things could be very different now.
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I met him a few times and even had a drink with him, he seemed a nice man. One of the few Politicians here who spoke sense. A voice like his in Unionism would be invaluable at a time like this as a counter balance to the usual diatribe spewing out of the DUP.
 
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So with a GE imminent how do we see things going in NI?

If the UUP stand in all constituencies as they say they are going to that could really harm the DUP - Nigel Dodds especially must be twitchy.
 
Rooney24 said:
So with a GE imminent how do we see things going in NI?

If the UUP stand in all constituencies as they say they are going to that could really harm the DUP - Nigel Dodds especially must be twitchy.
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I'd love people to vote uup and Sdlp. Itl never happen though
 
Rooney24 said:
So with a GE imminent how do we see things going in NI?

If the UUP stand in all constituencies as they say they are going to that could really harm the DUP - Nigel Dodds especially must be twitchy.
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Would love to see Alliance/SF work something to take a couple of the Belfast seats. Need to send a huge anti-Brexit, anti-DUP message this time.
 
Rooney24 said:
So with a GE imminent how do we see things going in NI?

If the UUP stand in all constituencies as they say they are going to that could really harm the DUP - Nigel Dodds especially must be twitchy.
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The exact same as usual so the exact same nutjobs and then watching them disagree and refuse to do anything until the next election then repeat
 
Colm Eastwood seems to be talking up working with a progressive coalition which suggests some sort of pact could be on the cards. Unlikely that Alliance will be involved though so could amount to SF standing aside in South Belfast for Hanna and SDLP stand aside in North Belfast for Finucane. Hanna should walk South Belfast if the shinners stand aside but North Belfast would be very tight.
 
Raulduke said:
Colm Eastwood seems to be talking up working with a progressive coalition which suggests some sort of pact could be on the cards. Unlikely that Alliance will be involved though so could amount to SF standing aside in South Belfast for Hanna and SDLP stand aside in North Belfast for Finucane. Hanna should walk South Belfast if the shinners stand aside but North Belfast would be very tight.
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Should give Long a free run in East Belfast as well. Foyle going to be tight hope we can hold it.
 
InLevyITrust said:
David Ervine, progressive and inclusive, the real name behind the the Union side of the GFA. Often goes unmentioned as he was a paramilitary and looked down on by some other unionist politicians. Had he been alive today I feel things could be very different now.
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Great man. He was one of the few loyalists who could see the bigger picture. He stood up to the likes of Paisley who lets remember opposed the good friday agreement. I'm a nationalist and I worked on a few peace initiatives at that time with members of both PUP and UDP. They'd basically taken the Sinn Fein approach of ex or current paramilitares engaging in politics. I found Irvine and a fella called Plum Smith 2 of the best to deal with. I dealt more with Plum who was an absolute gent. Didn't try and hide his past, but was focused as Irvine was on the future.Irvine said one night and I'll paraphrase, the DUP were calling him a sell out etc, the usual bollicks and he said something very prophetic, he said take the deal we are getting now or it's only going to get worse . I was very saddened to see plum pass away back in 2016 and of course Irvine prior to that. It sad that the great work that was done wasn't followed through, loyalism for once has legit working class representation, something now they severely lack. The likes of McMichael backed away from politics, and those 2 parties basically crumbled. Biggest problem with PUP now was while Irvine could speak on behalf of loyalism and be proud of his culture, he was still someone who nationalists felt comfortable with.Billy Hutchinson, their main boy now, and who was around from the start of the PUP is nothing but a street corner thug. Irvine was articulate, whereas Hutchinson can barley mutter a sentence without stumbling over words. Hutchinson is a yes man for loyalist terrorists, he can't answer a question in private about anything without having to seek authority from the boys. I know this from friends still involved in cross community discussions to this day and from my own discussions with him 25/26 yrs ago. The difference with Irvine was he could make a decision and then sell it to the paramilitaries. Loyalism could certainly do with a man like him now, in fact the whole of the north could.
 
poleglass red said:
Great man. He was one of the few loyalists who could see the bigger picture. He stood up to the likes of Paisley who lets remember opposed the good friday agreement. I'm a nationalist and I worked on a few peace initiatives at that time with members of both PUP and UDP. They'd basically taken the Sinn Fein approach of ex or current paramilitares engaging in politics. I found Irvine and a fella called Plum Smith 2 of the best to deal with. I dealt more with Plum who was an absolute gent. Didn't try and hide his past, but was focused as Irvine was on the future.Irvine said one night and I'll paraphrase, the DUP were calling him a sell out etc, the usual bollicks and he said something very prophetic, he said take the deal we are getting now or it's only going to get worse . I was very saddened to see plum pass away back in 2016 and of course Irvine prior to that. It sad that the great work that was done wasn't followed through, loyalism for once has legit working class representation, something now they severely lack. The likes of McMichael backed away from politics, and those 2 parties basically crumbled. Biggest problem with PUP now was while Irvine could speak on behalf of loyalism and be proud of his culture, he was still someone who nationalists felt comfortable with.Billy Hutchinson, their main boy now, and who was around from the start of the PUP is nothing but a street corner thug. Irvine was articulate, whereas Hutchinson can barley mutter a sentence without stumbling over words. Hutchinson is a yes man for loyalist terrorists, he can't answer a question in private about anything without having to seek authority from the boys. I know this from friends still involved in cross community discussions to this day and from my own discussions with him 25/26 yrs ago. The difference with Irvine was he could make a decision and then sell it to the paramilitaries. Loyalism could certainly do with a man like him now, in fact the whole of the north could.
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Well said my friend.
 
So looks like Aiken is about to do a u-turn on running against Dodds in North Belfast seemingly after his staff receive threats from paramilitaries.
 
Raulduke said:
So looks like Aiken is about to do a u-turn on running against Dodds in North Belfast seemingly after his staff receive threats from paramilitaries.
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I'm sure thats a total coincidence and the DUP didn't put them up to it.
 
balaks said:
Happy to see NI finally be dragged kicking and screaming into the modern world with the abortion and marriage changes. It is a bit depressing to see so many people on my facebook feed with a 'darkest day' profile picture - get with it folks, people deserve the same rights as everybody else in the UK and you do not dictate to us nonsense based on what you think the bible says.
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And that’s why I no longer have Facebook. You end up realising that half of people you know are fecking eejits.
 
Raulduke said:
So looks like Aiken is about to do a u-turn on running against Dodds in North Belfast seemingly after his staff receive threats from paramilitaries.
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Incredibly depressing all round and almost certainly puts a final nail in the coffin of the UUP and also makes Aiken a lame duck before even getting the leadership confirmed. I really wish they would show some balls and stand against the DUP to give people who are 100% unionist at least the chance to give the DUP a bloody nose but nooooo DUP for everybody again despite them single handedly fecking up the country.
 
poleglass red said:
Great man. He was one of the few loyalists who could see the bigger picture. He stood up to the likes of Paisley who lets remember opposed the good friday agreement. I'm a nationalist and I worked on a few peace initiatives at that time with members of both PUP and UDP. They'd basically taken the Sinn Fein approach of ex or current paramilitares engaging in politics. I found Irvine and a fella called Plum Smith 2 of the best to deal with. I dealt more with Plum who was an absolute gent. Didn't try and hide his past, but was focused as Irvine was on the future.Irvine said one night and I'll paraphrase, the DUP were calling him a sell out etc, the usual bollicks and he said something very prophetic, he said take the deal we are getting now or it's only going to get worse . I was very saddened to see plum pass away back in 2016 and of course Irvine prior to that. It sad that the great work that was done wasn't followed through, loyalism for once has legit working class representation, something now they severely lack. The likes of McMichael backed away from politics, and those 2 parties basically crumbled. Biggest problem with PUP now was while Irvine could speak on behalf of loyalism and be proud of his culture, he was still someone who nationalists felt comfortable with.Billy Hutchinson, their main boy now, and who was around from the start of the PUP is nothing but a street corner thug. Irvine was articulate, whereas Hutchinson can barley mutter a sentence without stumbling over words. Hutchinson is a yes man for loyalist terrorists, he can't answer a question in private about anything without having to seek authority from the boys. I know this from friends still involved in cross community discussions to this day and from my own discussions with him 25/26 yrs ago. The difference with Irvine was he could make a decision and then sell it to the paramilitaries. Loyalism could certainly do with a man like him now, in fact the whole of the north could.
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100% agree - one of the outstanding problems this country has is that Loyalism does not have a figure who has a good head on their shoulders that talks for them and represents their views in a way that is not just whataboutery. Without that you have the likes of Bryson sticking his head up and making the entire Loyalist faction sound like a total bunch of thugs and idiots - he may be a thug and an idiot but he is badly misrepresenting Loyalism and is all about stirring up fear and hate and nothing about trying to get the people he supposedly represents better lives and more representation. Irvine wasn't perfect but he spoke from the heart and spoke sense, he wasnt interested in stirring up hatred and fear, he wanted his people to have a better life. Loyalists as a result now dont have any way of expressing their views outside of causing trouble because they feel disenfrancised and ignored and in many ways they are.
 
balaks said:
100% agree - one of the outstanding problems this country has is that Loyalism does not have a figure who has a good head on their shoulders that talks for them and represents their views in a way that is not just whataboutery. Without that you have the likes of Bryson sticking his head up and making the entire Loyalist faction sound like a total bunch of thugs and idiots - he may be a thug and an idiot but he is badly misrepresenting Loyalism and is all about stirring up fear and hate and nothing about trying to get the people he supposedly represents better lives and more representation. Irvine wasn't perfect but he spoke from the heart and spoke sense, he wasnt interested in stirring up hatred and fear, he wanted his people to have a better life. Loyalists as a result now dont have any way of expressing their views outside of causing trouble because they feel disenfrancised and ignored and in many ways they are.
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Just a random question, but who plays this role in your eyes for nationalists?

I dont think they have this person either
 
Arlene Foster writing in the Belfast Telegraph:

We are told a debate on Irish unity is back on the agenda, but that's not necessarily a bad thing when your case is strong.

Getting into the detail of a potential united Ireland stirs a great many questions.

Does Irish unity stand up to scrutiny in the real world? Economic disruption, decades of transition and chaos.

Each and every aspect of our lives are deeply entwined within the Union - taxation, the Civil Service, defence and security.
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I doubt she missed the massive irony of this statement - she must have been laughing her balls off typing that up.
 
Player Red said:
Arlene Foster writing in the Belfast Telegraph:



I doubt she missed the massive irony of this statement - she must have been laughing her balls off typing that up.
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She has said previously that if there ever was a United Ireland she would leave the country. If that is not a strong case for unification I don't know what is.
 
Well there we have it, loyalist paramilitaries have chosen who is allowed to run in an election.

 
Depressing but no one will be shocked. And there’s still people who with a straight face maintain that the UDA/UVF and DUP aren’t in bed together.
 
Alliance and SDLP need to step aside now. Leave it a straight shoot out between leave and remain. Imagine knocking Dodds out of his seat.
 
Eire Red United said:
Alliance and SDLP need to step aside now. Leave it a straight shoot out between leave and remain. Imagine knocking Dodds out of his seat.
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What does a Sinn Fein victory do for Remain? In an odd way it makes leave more likely than a DUP win. Would make Boris Johnson's life easier.
 
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