I’d add Carlsen.
Nordic Ghost Yeti (Scandi Carroll) | Haaland at City
- Thread starter Samid
- Start date
I’d add Carlsen.
Yeah.
Though I would add that Norwegians probably overestimate the number of people, worldwide, who give enough of a feck about chess to recognize Carlsen.
Friendlies and matches in the Sao Paolo regional series (Santos scored 143 goals in the 1958 season and 151 goals in the 1959 season in 38 games seasons in the Paulista). He played in one of the the best teams in the world in a league of 3-4 good teams with the rest being championship, league one and league two quality. It’s not even remotely comparable to football in the top leagues in Europe today. In official matches Pele never scored more than 75 goals (66 Santos and 9 Brazil) in a season and he played for a superdominant team that scored almost 4 goals on average per game. What he did in his 600+ friendly exhibition matches means zip.
Remarkable player at his time, but his achievements on the pitch isn’t comparable to todays football. The 1958 world Champions would lose comfortably to 2023 Watford or Bristol City. The evolvement of the sport has been enormous.
Let’s see what Haaland achieves in his career and evaluate then where he belongs among the greats. So far he’s doing things we haven’t seen in modern football and is far ahead of the likes of Messi and Ronaldo at the same age on goals/minute.
Stoltenberg: Yeah...in theory. But even back in the day (before people were turned into goldfish by the Interwebz), the SG of NATO was hardly someone you could expect a random fecker on the street to name.
Munch: Clearly more famous than Stoltenberg. However...a considerable percentage of the people who would recognize Scream would not be able to tell you who painted it.
I lived in Odense in Denmark for two years and Tromsø in Norway for seven months and have never heard of Carlsen. In fact I read it as “Carlsberg” first time round.
True.
(Actually, I just said that because it sounds plausible. I have no idea how popular it is in India. But that would - obviously - be a huge factor. Again - see the CR7/social media followers discussion. I can tell you this, though: I recently tried to reference Magnus Carlsen - as an example of something...I don't remember what it was, actually - and it failed massively, because most of the people in the room didn't know who I was talking about.)
True, but Carlsen’s reached a level where he makes global news occasionally, and has been signed by huge brands for marketing, including the likes of Nike and Porsche. I reckon it’s fair to put his name in there, but who knows in terms of actual recognition, I guess.
Could be that he managed them for 9 years and won some LaLiga tiltes and a CL ….
I trust the non norwegian people on this.
How about A-ha? Quisling?
A-ha definitely - but only really for “Take On Me”. Morten is semi well known to people 40+ I’d say.
Quisling not so much. Some people will know the term as meaning “traitor” but not know why or Vidkun’s story (the ****).
Any more?
Is this the most bizarre thread on the cafe at the moment?
Yes I would have this version of Haaland over anyone else, including those mentioned in your list.
Apparently Lewandowski 2-3 years back was a great striker too, Ballon D'or level. Suarez on 2015 was also something else, same goes to Benzema last season.
But I think Haaland this season still have far better scoring ratio than those three at their absolute peak, even they did score impressively high no. of goals.
Haaland 22-23: 47 goals in 3075 mins (avg 1 goals per 65 mins)
Lewandowksi 19-20: 55 goals in 4133 mins (avg 1 goal per 75 mins)
Suarez 15-16: 59 goals in 4766 mins (avg 1 goal per 80 mins)
Benzema 21-22: 44 goals in 3915 mins (avg 1 goal per 89 mins)
And no its just not about scoring ratio. I personally rated Haaland pace/strength/physicality higher than Lewandowski's efficiency/positional sense, or Suarez aggressiveness/technical ability, or even Benzema all-roundness in attack, as I just find the way Haaland bullying defenders with his physicality more unstoppable than anything else I've seen from those other strikers.
Of course I know its all subjective and you might not agree, but that's just my preference.
Yes, I mean - he is known on a global scale.
On that note, I suppose we should also consider the black metal thing: I have met people from all corners of the world who a) would have zero idea who Carlsen is, b) have zero idea that Stoltenberg is the GS of NATO, c) have no idea who painted Scream and d) who very likely don't know either Ole or Haaland...but who are very familiar with Varg Vikernes (or whatever he calls himself these days).
Fair point
Call him by his Christian name though: Kristian.
Just looked him up, actually. Man’s progressive af, took his wife’s name. He is now Louis Cachet
And the Bond movie song (which was kinda crap, but still).
Really? That's...ironic.
It was mostly pathetically bad, you would need to go down a few divisions to see defending that bad now. Defenders going to ground or just sticking a foot in all the time is pretty ppiss poor defending.
I'm watching Pele's top 30 dribbles and the defending is similar to a school yard.
Not really the word I'd use
although he'd probably take it as an insult so that's good. Also, I never realised Stoltenberg was Norwegian. And I had never even heard the name 'Kygo' before.
Roald Amundsen - Norwegian who if you paid attention in history class should be well known
Firestone is a proper banger.
Since you're so into stats, let's do a little statistical comparison between Haaland 22/23, Benzema 21/22 and Lewandowski 19/20:
Haaland is among the...
worst 6% strikers in touches (Benzema best 5%, Lewandowski best 26%)
worst 19% in completed passes (Benzema best 4%, Lewandowski best 21%)
best 47% in progressive passes received (Benzema best 7%, Lewandowski best 14%)
best 47% in progressive passes (Benzema best 4%, Lewandowski best 12%)
worst 1% in carries into the final third (Benzema best 7%, Lewandowski best 28%)
best 45% in carries into the penalty area (Benzema best 7%, Lewandowski best 6%)
worst 8% in dribblings completed (Benzema best 45%, Lewandowski best 19%)
worst 42% in shot creating actions (Benzema best 1%, Lewandowski best 14%)
Lewandowski still is streets ahead of Haaland in terms of overall contribution although he himself is not in the same ball park to Benzema. Haaland on the other hand is average in those areas, especially considering these stats are from a season in which he played for the most dominant team in possession in world football.
The Brazilian state leagues were the best in the world at that time. So yes, it is comparable. Please explain, logically, why it is not?
Nonsense. Take any player now and look at their top dribbles and look at the defenders. How exactly are they doing better?
Would have loved seeing these La Liga players touches after they get pressed the way get pressed in the Premier League.
Oh well, never happens - just sipping pina colada’s for most of their season anyway.
The managers that manage PL clubs is a whole different level even if the best players look like they all abroad.
Oh well, never happens - just sipping pina colada’s for most of their season anyway.
The managers that manage PL clubs is a whole different level even if the best players look like they all abroad.
A different level of bragging, perhaps..I really enjoy football, but people watching 50 black and white matches of Pele are on a whole different level
Defenders now have far better positioning, and stay on their feet more, its a lot harder to dribble past defenders now than before. Watching this top 30 dribbles, they don't even get basic positioning and how to make it hard for players to get past you, it was a time of just going for tackles. Defending was so poor back then, just watch the video yourself its comes up towards the top of YT.
Yeah makes sense, the painting is probably way more famous/recognized than Munch himself.
What performances against the big teams has impressed you this season?
Using your logic there is absolutely no way you can argue for George Best or Bobby Charlton being Uniteds best players, if you’re going to chastise players for playing in the era they did then make it appropriate for everybody.
Who is the greatest United player of all time in your opinion?
But the environment balances it out, no? The attackers wearing heavy heavy boots, the ball is comparable to a basketball, the pitch is uneven and the defenders can get away with tackles that would be red cards in today’s game..
Wow you really went hard into a strawman argument, no one said that and I will not even bother giving it a proper response.
But they played in an era where the defending was far worse, no?
Except why do he need all those stats you've listed above though?
And in case you aren't aware yet, he is actually a striker, a no.9. Not a 10. And we are actually comparing "striker' here, we are not comparing a winger, nor a playmaker, nor an attacking midfielder.
Why do you always feel the need to make every players from different role/position the same? Do you really think a team with 11 Messi or Neymar would work?
I do agree with this, but I also think you can put elite attackers who also had the mentality and capability to man mark the opposition into a kind of special class.
The fact that Charlton and di Stefano had the ability to be the best player on the pitch but chose to sacrifice their own game to take out another is something pretty special.
It might be an artefact of the time but it’s also fair to say almost all of the best players of the last few decades just wouldn’t have the capacity to do that, don’t you think?
This makes no sense. In the world cup for example, the number of goals per match has been basically the same for about 60 years, hovering around the 2.5-3 goals per game mark. If defending was so poor back then, why were there not lots more goals?
Fair point
Call him by his Christian name though: Kristian.
Just looked him up, actually. Man’s progressive af, took his wife’s name. He is now Louis Cachet
last i heard of him he'd escaped jail and tried to enroll in the french foreign legion. Not sure of true but it was funnyplease please please tell me he's a born again christian now
I love Lene Marlin!
Haaland is an easy shout for most famous Norwegian currently. Karsten Warholm perhaps in a country like the US that is way passionate about Track&Field. And Magnus Carlsen.
Its a good era to be a Norwegian sports fan, we have rank1/top5 players/competitors/teams in nearly all major sports now, both winter and summer-
But just to keep stirring the pot here: Haaland is better than everyone else in the modern game at scoring goals.
I don't think he escaped, he just served his sentence.
please please please tell me he's a born again christian now
He's sort of still a Nazi even though he says he isn't.