Nordic Ghost Yeti (Scandi Carroll) | Haaland at City
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) and Jamie (@Vault Dweller) review both the Everton and Bodø/Glimt victories at Old Trafford. Listen to the guys discuss 2 wins and 7 goals in the last week, analyse of the Amorim formation, focus on Amad and how he is playing, and also take a look at Hojlund, Rashford & Zirkzee – who starts v Arsenal?
Correlation is not causation. The real reason City have dropped points in four of the last 11 league games (not even that bad) has been the defence. Constant mix and match, centre-backs at full-back, all of our four best defenders in and out with injury. Plus the decision not to go for a starting left-back has cost us. Aké has been great this season but build-up isn't the same when he's out wide.
I also don't think it's true that we've changed our style very much to accommodate him. But it wouldn't be a bad thing if we had. With a false 9, we were less exciting and picked up fewer points than we did while Aguero was in his pomp. Haaland can't drop deep and link up play in the same way Jesus did but why on earth should that mean the team will be worse?
I also don't think it's true that we've changed our style very much to accommodate him. But it wouldn't be a bad thing if we had. With a false 9, we were less exciting and picked up fewer points than we did while Aguero was in his pomp. Haaland can't drop deep and link up play in the same way Jesus did but why on earth should that mean the team will be worse?
Norway has a good generation coming through but most of them are 2-3 years away from making a impact. Haaland has strenghtened the national team immensely, will also be helpful when Ødegaard start showing up.
His presence as a 19 year old improved Salzburg to the point where they could go toe-to-toe with the likes of Liverpool and Napoli in the CL. Dortmund might not have gotten any closer to Bayern with him, but they absolutely were a much scarier team. He gave them a chance to win basically every CL encounter they had with his goals.
Yeah, our form the past few weeks has been poor, but our struggles have very little to do with the new signing scoring 30 goals before january is over in a season interupted by a world-cup. I get he is a poacher, but I'm not sure complete n9's like Van Basten and R9 had it in their locker to magically make players like Bernardo Silva, Cancelo and Foden hungry again after x amount of titles, keep Walker, Stones and Dias fit and avoid De Bruyne declining as an all-action midfielder with age.
It's weird how the internet seems to always want to blame the ones actually performing for the team not performing (ignore the fact that we are performing better than 18 other teams). It is like all those world cups Messi were the only good offensive player for Argentina, he got all the blame because he was supposed to make the others perform better. Once they managed to actually put a functioning team around him, surprise surprise, they won the world cup with Messi still being their best performer.
It feels like a race to the dumbest hot take sometimes.
His presence as a 19 year old improved Salzburg to the point where they could go toe-to-toe with the likes of Liverpool and Napoli in the CL. Dortmund might not have gotten any closer to Bayern with him, but they absolutely were a much scarier team. He gave them a chance to win basically every CL encounter they had with his goals.
Yeah, our form the past few weeks has been poor, but our struggles have very little to do with the new signing scoring 30 goals before january is over in a season interupted by a world-cup. I get he is a poacher, but I'm not sure complete n9's like Van Basten and R9 had it in their locker to magically make players like Bernardo Silva, Cancelo and Foden hungry again after x amount of titles, keep Walker, Stones and Dias fit and avoid De Bruyne declining as an all-action midfielder with age.
It's weird how the internet seems to always want to blame the ones actually performing for the team not performing (ignore the fact that we are performing better than 18 other teams). It is like all those world cups Messi were the only good offensive player for Argentina, he got all the blame because he was supposed to make the others perform better. Once they managed to actually put a functioning team around him, surprise surprise, they won the world cup with Messi still being their best performer.
It feels like a race to the dumbest hot take sometimes.
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Even if he doesnt win cl id say that the ballon dor cares feck all about league games if he carries on like this and doesnt win. Unseen so far in the PL
Messi has already won the next one, Haaland winning UCL and scoring a bunch is perhaps the only thing that could prevent it.
Can you imagine how much money he’s being paid in bonuses for goals scored?
I’d love to know what the real rate is per goal.
I’d love to know what the real rate is per goal.
See what I'm saying??
A bunch of posts that do Haaland a disservice. Lots of players played in great teams. Nobody that had ever played in the Premier league has been even within touching distance of what Haaland is currently doing, scoring wise.
For perspective, Haaland has more hatricks in 19 matches than Ronaldo had in 236 matches
It's just stupid. Sergio Aguero holds the record for PL hattricks with 12 in ten whole years. Haaland already has four in half a season.
Which tournaments would you say he should have easily carried Norway to?
Just as an FYI, the latest chance he had was for the 2022 WC, where the qualifiers started when he was 20 years old.
It's obviously something for the future, and as I've already said, was part of a wider point about him so far not actually improving teams much compared to how good of a player he's supposed to be.
Maybe I'm just biased against the kind of player he is, but I don't see how he could become a player that could carry a team to greater heights, because he can't really make chances for either himself or others to the same degree that pretty much every other top striker of the past few years can or could.
His career is still young of course, and I could very easily just be way wrong, but to me he seems more like a massively souped up version of Lukaku than he seems like a Benzema/Suarez/Lewandowski/Kane/Mbappe who can/could all win games on their own and made their teams better.
I do find it disingenuous when various media outlets use the name of Ronaldo to prop up new wave players, it's been done repeatedly before and now again with Haaland
Ronaldo was a teenager playing on the wing (as an actual winger) for the majority of his Manchester United career.... yeah he didn't bag hattricks every week... I wonder why
Ronaldo was a teenager playing on the wing (as an actual winger) for the majority of his Manchester United career.... yeah he didn't bag hattricks every week... I wonder why
Now we can move on
I don't really watch City, but I can with absolute certainty say that he improves Norway a lot.
I made similar arguments towards Ronaldo for United last season, so I think i can see where you are coming from.
At some point the stats become so extreme that it's hard to argue against though.
Players shouldn't need to win games all on their own though. That just means they're not in a good enough team.
This is a strange argument to make. We've played 20 games this season and his goals have been instrumental in us winning points.
Vs West Ham we won 2-0 he scored both
Vs Bournemouth we won 4-0 he didn't score but assisted the opener
Vs Newcastle we drew and he scored
Vs Palace we won 4-2 and were losing until he scored a hattrick
Vs Forest we won 6-0 he scored a hatrick
Vs Villa we drew and he scored our goal
Vs Wolves we won 3-0 and he scored
Vs United we won 6-3 and he scored a hattrick
Vs Southampton we won 4-0 and he scored
Vs Liverpool we lost 1-0
Vs Brighton we won 3-1 and he scored twice
Vs Leicester we won 1-0
Vs Fulham we won 2-1 and he scored
Vs Brentford we lost 2-1
Vs Leeds we won 3-1 and he scored twice
Vs Everton we drew 1-1 and he scored
Vs Chelsea we won 1-0
Vs United we lost 2-1
Vs Spurs we won 4-2 and he scored
Vs Wolves we won 3-0 and he got yet another hattrick
Vs Bournemouth we won 4-0 he didn't score but assisted the opener
Vs Newcastle we drew and he scored
Vs Palace we won 4-2 and were losing until he scored a hattrick
Vs Forest we won 6-0 he scored a hatrick
Vs Villa we drew and he scored our goal
Vs Wolves we won 3-0 and he scored
Vs United we won 6-3 and he scored a hattrick
Vs Southampton we won 4-0 and he scored
Vs Liverpool we lost 1-0
Vs Brighton we won 3-1 and he scored twice
Vs Leicester we won 1-0
Vs Fulham we won 2-1 and he scored
Vs Brentford we lost 2-1
Vs Leeds we won 3-1 and he scored twice
Vs Everton we drew 1-1 and he scored
Vs Chelsea we won 1-0
Vs United we lost 2-1
Vs Spurs we won 4-2 and he scored
Vs Wolves we won 3-0 and he got yet another hattrick
It's not about who gets the last touch before the ball goes in the net, though. How much is that worth? Where do those goals actually come from?
The Wolves game seemed pretty typical. De Bruyne puts the ball between his eyes 5 yards out, central. Gundogan wins a penalty. Mahrez squares it to him for an open goal. Slightly more aerial crosses and slightly fewer low cutbacks. Otherwise, the same goals City usually score with one player hoovering up most of the goals instead of them being spread around the team.
You win that game last year 3-0 (De Bruyne, Gundogan, Mahrez) and nobody gives a shit. You win it this year 3-0 (Haaland, Haaland, Haaland) and everybody creams themselves and it's "cheat code" and "just award the league to City every year until the nasty goal monster goes away".
If he scored only a goal a game he would get more credit that he does now. He is too good and winning you a lot of games on his own. Scoring goals for fun means your team can setup after to pass the ball around for safety and never really attack, that is Pep's fault not this guy. If the team forgets how to attack as a unit after some time, it's a side effect but it's not about changing Haaland. He is 22 years old. Too good. I think City could win those games without him and another player coming in for him, but that guy wouldn't have scored the winners, who would? Grealish?
This idea that Pep would have won the treble with this team, and signing Haaland is somehow going against Peps chances of doing that is bonkers. If a 50-goal striker can't do the job what more do you need.
City doing worse, because they have a 50 goal striker is a ridiculous notion. Doesn't mean that they wont play bad, put that on Pep then, not on the 50 goal 22 year old. If they can't do it with him in the side, they probably never will.
How is that better than when they had 7 different 10 goal players last year?
It's just one guy scoring most of the goals other players were scoring anyway.
Now, that in itself doesn't make the team worse. What does that is having less control of games because your press is less effective. There's less likely to be a City attacker on top of the opposition player who just has won the ball, whether that's getting it back or committing a snidey tactical foul before a counter can happen, the lack of which exposes your defence.
There's a reason Arsenal are a good bit clear at the top literally just doing a tribute act to the team City were before Haaland got there.
He is disgustingly awesome and unique. I want to see him score 50 PL goals.
How is that better than when they had 7 different 10 goal players last year?
It's just one guy scoring most of the goals other players were scoring anyway.
Now, that in itself doesn't make the team worse. What does that is having less control of games because your press is less effective. There's less likely to be a City attacker on top of the opposition player who just has won the ball, whether that's getting it back or committing a snidey tactical foul before a counter can happen, the lack of which exposes your defence.
There's a reason Arsenal are a good bit clear at the top literally just doing a tribute act to the team City were before Haaland got there.
It’s just the PR machine picking Haaland as the talking point for the season. The ‘cheat code’ stuff is a bit comical considering City were tonking these same teams by the same or more goals in previous seasons.
Very easy to blame the defense but that's not the only reason. Guardiola built a very effective 2nd post cross strategy that either ends up out of bounds or is received by a City player in a very dangerous position. Meaning when the cross failed, there was no risk of a complicated transition to handle behind that. It was almost a trademark for the past couple of years. With Haaland, there's far more crosses into the box, which leads to fast transitions that can be very tricky for defenders to handle. On top of that, Haaland is almost instantly out the equation on transition defense when in the past, you almost had an extra midfielder.
City did change to accomodate Haaland, it had to, and it caused unbalance, and not only because of your defenders.
What is your point though? Is Haaland making City worse? Is Haaland not all that, just scoring goals others would have scored if he weren't there.How is that better than when they had 7 different 10 goal players last year?
It's just one guy scoring most of the goals other players were scoring anyway.
Now, that in itself doesn't make the team worse. What does that is having less control of games because your press is less effective. There's less likely to be a City attacker on top of the opposition player who just has won the ball, whether that's getting it back or committing a snidey tactical foul before a counter can happen, the lack of which exposes your defence.
There's a reason Arsenal are a good bit clear at the top literally just doing a tribute act to the team City were before Haaland got there.
You are literally comparing half a season stats with the full stats from last year. City have scored more goals, and they are even short two big contributors.
50 - 14- 8 - 8 - 6 - 4 - 4 - 4 - 4 - 2 = 106 goals
15 - 13 - 11 - 9 - 8 - 8 - 4 - 3 - 2 - 2 - 2 - 2 - 1 = 99 goals
Yeah, City are better because Stones, Ake, Dias and Laporte etc gets to have 10 goals between them instead of Haaland. Like there is a correlation there.
The point about tactical change in pressing and lacking a man because Haaland is not small, is a fair one but what is it about doing tactical fouls that automatically leads to winning CL titles? City was impressive last season, sold a few key players and with the arrival of Haaland they haven't lost a step. Maybe a small one, but they've gained an advantage that more than makes up for it.
You might wanna check out the "goals conceded" stat, it might help you see why Arsenal are ahead of them or is Haaland supposed to not make their defense worse ?How is that better than when they had 7 different 10 goal players last year?
It's just one guy scoring most of the goals other players were scoring anyway.
Now, that in itself doesn't make the team worse. What does that is having less control of games because your press is less effective. There's less likely to be a City attacker on top of the opposition player who just has won the ball, whether that's getting it back or committing a snidey tactical foul before a counter can happen, the lack of which exposes your defence.
There's a reason Arsenal are a good bit clear at the top literally just doing a tribute act to the team City were before Haaland got there.
I wasn't pretending otherwise. I just think that if you average that over the full season, it's a very similar level of goals just concentrated mainly to one player instead of being more spread over the team.
I'm not sure that they have. If he ends up being the difference in their games against Arsenal and finds the winner that they couldn't find before in big CL knockout games, then hands up, I'm entirely wrong and he's worth all of the hype. I'm just not sure that's going to happen, and I haven't seen all that much in the few games they've had against better teams (apart from pre-Casemiro United) to suggest that he'll be the difference maker in enough of those games. It's worth saying that their fixture list has been kind, though, so there's not much evidence either way so far.
Yes, I think having a striker who is less comfortable in possession and presses a lot less than the player he is replacing exposes your defence more. Same way United's defence was more exposed when we had Ronaldo. Same way Arsenal's defence was more exposed when they had Aubameyang.
Also helps that they can pass the ball amongst themselves without going in to panic mode!
But our defence got better once we had better defenders regularly playing just like it hasn't been the case for Man City. Haaland is the main reason they're conceding more goals like you're trying to imply. That's a ridiculous assumption IMHO. Is his presence impacting their pressing ? Probably yeah but it goes a long from that to them conceding more (the lack of a consistent back 4 and Ederson being worse are more logical explanations).
It might not be the main factor, but it's definitely a factor. Getting Casemiro for example has surely done more for our defence than not playing Ronaldo anymore, but I think the latter helps a lot as well.
I think that counts double in a Guardiola system where the main mode of defence is keeping the ball.
It's not, as I explained earlier, more balls played in the box (for Haaland but it would be the same for any box striker) instead of second post means more transitions, means more complicated situations to handle for defenders.
It was sort of OK before with Aguero since Fernandiho did the dirty work but Rodri is obviously not that kind of player.
How is that better than when they had 7 different 10 goal players last year?
It's just one guy scoring most of the goals other players were scoring anyway.
Now, that in itself doesn't make the team worse. What does that is having less control of games because your press is less effective. There's less likely to be a City attacker on top of the opposition player who just has won the ball, whether that's getting it back or committing a snidey tactical foul before a counter can happen, the lack of which exposes your defence.
There's a reason Arsenal are a good bit clear at the top literally just doing a tribute act to the team City were before Haaland got there.
Isn't he scoring something ridiculous like 34% of his shots, it's not as if loads of chances are falling to him instead of pther players, cityare creating less this year, you could make an argument that he's to blame, but a player with his kind of pace and movement and positioning should make it easier to create chances not harder, so it would seem the rest of the team is letting them down, not him
It's far more complicated than that, a team is an alchemy, and replacing X by Y with Y being a far superior player doesn't mean the team will function better as a unit. You have many exemples of top players leaving a team with said team being better the season after because it just worked better. I'm obviously not saying that about City and Haaland since it's far too soon to tell but it happens.
Do you have the stats for crosses into oppo box vs previous seasons? Thing is though that City has conceded pretty much the exact amount of goals from open play per 90 as last season 0,65. The difference big difference this season is that they have conceded 7 goals from set pieces, corners, direct freekicks and penalties in the first 20 games, compared to 2 the entire season last season. Can you tribute this to their new striker? Haaland is also both pressing and scoring more than double of what Ronaldo did for us so it’s really not comparable. Both Aguero and Ronaldo had more shots per 90 than Haaland has had so far this season.
Peps Barca are a prime example of this, as he booted out the stars they got better and better. Ronaldinho, Eto'o etc... Some even say you guys are better when only 2 of Messi, Mbappe and Neymar play. Theres no evidence either way with City as lots of players are at a lull right now from lack of effort.
On a whole its hard to know how little or much effect he's had on the team. Dias has been crocked half the season. Bernardo never wanted to stay, Gundo's mind is already on his next club. Theres a lot of other issues going on at City.
I don't fully buy this.
City under Pep have been prone to sudden defensive collapses (especially in the CL), but their title winning seasons to date have been mostly comprised of very good transition defense, under Rodri as well as Fernandinho.
Walker's speed helped shut down the right to a large extend, and Zinchenko tucking in midfield narrowed lanes for transitions to occur in. Delph did this prior to Zinchenko. Rodri is a good defender but he isn't Superman
Rico Lewis has been great but he doesn't have Walker's recovery speed. Ake is a great defender but he's not as good at the LB position, in terms of stopping the transition attack. Cancelo is out of form and he has been a primary creator for City. Not to mention Dias and Laporte and Stones being out for a period.
To skip all of that and look at Haaland is laziness.
You could, being in an uncomfortable defensive situation makes you make mistakes, concede fouls close to the box, penalties, corner kicks etc. Obviously defenders have a part to play but it's far from being the only element.
And I obviously don't have stats accurate enough to dissociate 2nd post crosses and center of the box crosses but the eye test doesn't lie, 2nd post crosses were a City trademark for the last couple of seasons and it's obvious to anyone watching the games that they aren't doing that much anymore.
Yeah Zlatan was also being famous leaving teams that succeed after he's gone.
There's obviously no definitve conclusion to draw at this moment, it's still very early into the Haaland era at City but the "he scores a lot, it's his teamates that aren't good enough!" analysis lacks depth.
For sure, I think we'll know better come seasons end.
There's obviously several factors, it would be foolish to say that it's 100% about Haaland. But it's a factor to me. It's easier to defend in transition when one of your player (Haaland or anyone else) isn't directly eliminated because he's in the middle of the box. High pressure is one of Guardiola's trademark, nobody can claim that having a box player instead of a false 9 doesn't change the way they defend after loosing the ball.
The biggest factor to me is Fernandinho - his ability to avoid yellow cards for niggling fouls that prevented counter attacks was incredible
Rodri offers something different but he's obviously not in Fernandinho's ballpark when it comes to plugging holes in their defense.