Changing the way they play affects them though, no question they were more defensive with a false 9.
You’re convinced it’s the back 4, I’m not. I think he’s incredible but that it still remains to be seen if he’s ultimately made them a better side.
Nordic Ghost Yeti (Scandi Carroll) | Haaland at City
- Thread starter Samid
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Changing the way they play affects them though, no question they were more defensive with a false 9.
You’re convinced it’s the back 4, I’m not. I think he’s incredible but that it still remains to be seen if he’s ultimately made them a better side.
A United fan can’t dislike a City player cause he loved watching him at Dortmund… what the holy feck
I mean I dislike that he's scoring for City. It's load of shite he joined them over us but it is what it is.
Still gonna watch the games though because why the feck not.
I really just mean I'm not gonna change my opinion of him and pretend he is shit or whatever just cause he joined City.
City closet fans need to calm down. Nobody is calling him bad player, he just does not fit them.
We have certain Veron who did not fit us. It happens all the time. Riquelme, Forlan, Yaya T, Sneider ect.
We have certain Veron who did not fit us. It happens all the time. Riquelme, Forlan, Yaya T, Sneider ect.
Well I just think when a team is missing their entire best back 4 basically all season it's a hell of a lot more likely to be the reason that they concede a few more goals.
Hell their attacking output would probably be even better if their old back 4 was around.
No-one’s asking you to be bat shit crazy, he’s clearly brilliant.
But he’s a bit of a tit, and plays brilliantly for Manchester City, his Dad was a massive wanker. It’s really not hard to dislike him.
But hey, you enjoyed him at Dortmund innit
Too early to say. So far the jury’s out. We’ll see in May I guess.
When it comes to Ronaldo, I wrote some analyses on that in his performance thread from early on last season. Ole can blaim himself for continuing to start him despite every metric pointing at it being bad for the team.
Yep sure...
The thing with bringing up Inzaghi when talking about Haaland, it is just that their playstyle is very similar.
Eerily similar.
Comic-book-esque "we took Inzaghi's brain and transplanted it in a cyborg super-soldier body" level, actually. =)
Then of course Haaland is in a class of his own physically, has better tecnique than Inzaghi, and he's in a completely different tier of efficiency and precociousness, that's a given.
Ironically (as in, you'd never say that looking at them side by side), the one single area where Inzaghi has a tecnique & effectiveness edge on Haaland is... aerial game =D
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Haaland will definitely have more longevity than Mbappe though. Also much more likable. Mbappe is an insanely annoying character..
Disagree with all of this.
Comparison to Inzaghi is just in the sense of you can be a good goalscorer but not such a great overall footballer. Haaland indeed is a phenomenon, Inzaghi wasn't as good but was a very good goalscorer in his own right nevertheless.
No-one’s asking you to be bat shit crazy, he’s clearly brilliant.
But he’s a bit of a tit, and plays brilliantly for Manchester City, his Dad was a massive wanker. It’s really not hard to dislike him.
But hey, you enjoyed him at Dortmund innit
I think it is perfectly reasonable from him. The unreasonable people are the tribal ones who can't overcome their biases because something silly as football fandom.
To be a football fan of one club is to be tribal, it’s all a bit silly.
Yeah, 'a bit' doesn't mean you're contractually obliged to dislike anything rival related.
It’s not ”a bit” it’s literally bypassed by people trying to make a point either oblivious or ignorant to it, and if not, being disingenuous by wholly omitting it.
Hold the ball up and bring others into the game making the team better than the sum of its parts?
The suggestion for that predictability is being laid at the feet of Haaland in that *everyone* is supposedly funnelling every ball to him or working chances for him in lieu of chances for themselves or the team. There’s been a lot of change in their lineup that is naturally going to upset the rhythm and flow they had last season. Their off the ball movers in the front line are gone - for all the stick Sterling receives, he was a massive component in the opening up of teams by forcing trackers and foraging constantly for space, which obviously sets a whole chain in motion. They don’t have a player doing that anymore, so there’s going to be a bottleneck in the final third if nobody wants to offer themselves up for width, which in turn creates more width on the overlap or a space on the inside for the full-back to cause further confusion. Further to that, the midfield has less places to actually effectively send the ball or have it relayed back to them; you can’t play the same kind of football without the means to initiate it. That’s not Haaland’s fault, but we might say that what City are necessitates they do certain things now that didn’t have to before - put more clever movement wide and I doubt the team plays the way it does at the moment.
City’s players haven’t met their own bar, which should be evident as the season is unfolding, especially so with their performances at the World Cup, away from the team/domestic football.
All that matters at the end of the day is scoring more goals than the opposition
Haaland's job is to score those goals, whatever else he may be good or not so good at doesn't really matter, I just wished he played for us because he's really good at doing what matters!
Haaland's job is to score those goals, whatever else he may be good or not so good at doesn't really matter, I just wished he played for us because he's really good at doing what matters!
Haaland has several chefs kiss would-be assists to players like Gundogan and Foden that they squabbled. To name a few, there are other examples this season. The only thing he just doesnt have is elite level dribbling like Zlatan did, but his weaker attributes like passing have developed strongly.
City has had long periods where they have been dogshit even before Haaland came to the club. The season we were leading the table at the chritmas break the "Pep sack watch" thread was pure fire, because city was playing like dumpsterfire.
Then they went on a recordbreaking winstreak anyway and won the league.
Yes, you can’t just omit what doesn’t suit what you’re presenting if you’re being objective - he isn’t silk on the ball or technically, but he’s clearly capable of playing the foil or the finisher to a degree a lot of the criticism of him simply doesn’t fit. As you say, if those gilt-edged chances are finished by the recipients, he’s on a good number of proper, considered assists, not flubbed, miscues others converted, but deliberate passes put on a plate for others to finish off.
The second bolded is what I’m seeing; he’s getting better at playing others in and/or making conscious decisions to shoot or play others in, that’s not what poachers do, or certainly not what the prototypical ones did.
It's kind of interesting to see that after 16 games this season, City have an xG of ~37, which is identical to what they had after 16 games last season.
Said it before but I don't think he will make 1 bit of difference to them in the league. They'll win most years, they'll have an off year here or there as long as Pep is there, whoever they sign. Haaland doesn't change anything for them in the league. Where Haaland will prove his worth ultimately for them is if they get over the line in the CL, if he can get the goals in the key moments of the biggest cup games. Because Pep has long since mastered league football and will be dominant wherever he goes. Whether the goals are focused in on one individual or spread out evenly, they'll on the whole create a similar amount every year pretty much.
Said it before but I don't think he will make 1 bit of difference to them in the league. They'll win most years, they'll have an off year here or there as long as Pep is there, whoever they sign. Haaland doesn't change anything for them in the league. Where Haaland will prove his worth ultimately for them is if they get over the line in the CL, if he can get the goals in the key moments of the biggest cup games. Because Pep has long since mastered league football and will be dominant wherever he goes. Whether the goals are focused in on one individual or spread out evenly, they'll on the whole create a similar amount every year pretty much.
So you are saying Sterling attracts more players and opens up more space than Haaland?
«Prove his worth”.. They got him and Alvarez for less than we paid for Antony
I mean as always, the transfer fee isn't close to the overall sum of money that they are actually paying Haaland, which is 355m over 5 years...So you are saying Sterling attracts more players and opens up more space than Haaland?
«Prove his worth”.. They got him and Alvarez for less than we paid for Antony
Chill. The guy is 22 years old and is in the beginning of his career. No doubt he will triple and quadruple the money back for them. His shirts are sold out. They made a bargain, and people are making this thread embarrassing with straw men. They did actually pay less for both him and Alvarez, and that we should take on board. Especially the board..
funny to talk about money where it comes to City,
but if 355m or there about is what he'll cost them over the years (don't know whether the number is accurate, personally)-
how do you expect Haaland to produce a revenue of 1 billion pounds (355m tripled) for his team?
this sounds insane.
So you are saying Sterling attracts more players and opens up more space than Haaland?
«Prove his worth”.. They got him and Alvarez for less than we paid for Antony
Sterling under Pep absolutely attracts more players and opens up more space yes.
As for the second sentence…. Hahhahahaha! Sure mate, cause they did.
Fecking hell
They got him for his release clause yes but they also paid 40m to Raiola and another similar amount to Haalands dad along with 40m a year on wages (over 750k a week), along with other bonuses. Let's not ignore them.
My point is that they bought Haaland to win the CL. Their performance in the league with or without him literally wouldn't change as long as Pep is there. The success of Haalands transfer won't be measured on anything other than CL success.
Mate, he is not even on the top of their payroll. We are probably paying De Gea more money
Who has the biggest market value in the world right now? Haaland or De Gea? What rock are you fellas living under?750k per week? Can I have what you are smoking!?
since i am not worthy more posts this day. I choose to trust fjortoft and not the bild
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Haaland is on obscene money, almost triple what De Gea is.Mate, he is not even on the top of their payroll. We are probably paying De Gea more money
His basic wage is level with KdB but he has 'almost guaranteed' (not goal related) bonuses which more than double his wage.
BILD released a report saying this was the cost breakdown.
€75m for his release clause + €10m in add ons
€40m commission for Mino Raiola (Haaland’s agent)
€30m commission for Alf-Inge Haaland (Erling’s father)
€40m in wages per year spread over five years (€200m in total)
Total: €355m
A low release clause was only there so they could take more money themselves. Just like free agent signings like Aaron Ramsey getting paid 400k a week by Juve because there wasn't a transfer fee
The difference is that they this season has scored 11 goals more from that ~37 xG. That's what it means having the best striker in the world up top, he'll convert those chances and consistantly overperform his xG. So despite having issues defending set pieces and corners this season they have a better goaldifference than last season. Having a better goaldifference means nothing without trophies though, but I struggle to see how having a striker that scores every 56th minutes (1,61 G/90) and directly contributes to a goal every 50 minutes (1,78 G+A/90) in the PL and CL for you when you concede less than a goal a game on average can be bad for you.
You are right though that City's main goal is to win the CL and that they should win the league with or without Haaland in their squad. Let's see how that turns out for them.
Liverpool on the other hand is struggling when their main men (Nunez and Salah) can't find the back of the net and their defense is shaky.
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Ah this again - the best strikers don't consistently overperform xg. Benzema, Lewandowski, Ronaldo all performed pretty much exactly to xG over their careers, which I think says it all. Some players overperform a bit, some underperform a bit, it swings from year to year but their xG is usually consistent and players will generally normalize to it over time.
And it's not a bad thing for City, but it's just something that shows that despite Haaland being a great striker, he hasn't really made a net positive difference to city and their play yet. They created the same amount of chances, a bit more clinical this season but that's concentrated in some random games where it didn't impact the result much, and their points and expected points are all similar enough in the league. Basically last year without him, was no different. Just goals were spread instead of funneled.
Well Haaland is that type of striker, the type that consistantly outperforms his xG and produces high xG numbers.
What the three players you mentioned have in common is that they all played for stacked teams scoring 100+ league goals every season through their primes. Let's compare their best seasons (added a player that consistantly outperformed his xG at Barca) in stacked teams vs. Haaland right now for city (League only):
- Benzema is on par with scoring around 0,6 non penalty goals per 90 through his career with a couple of outlier seasons both ways. Best season (By far): 15/16 - 1,09 non penalty goals/90 (0,93 npxG/90), Second best season: 21/22 - 0,69 npG/90
- Lewandowski had one outlier season (20/21) at Bayern where he scored above 1 non penalty goal per 90: 1,20 npG/90 (0,92 npxG/90), the rest of his seasons there were between 0,58 and 0,96 npG/90. This season is looking good so far with 1,00 npg/90.
- Ronaldo had only 1 season at Real Madrid where he scored more than 1 non penalty goal per 90: 14/15 - 1,10 npG/90 (From 0,88 npxG/90, the last time he out scored his npxG by more than 0,5%). The rest of his seasons there were between 0,67 and 0,99 npG/90.
- Messi has scored more than 1 non penalty goal per 90 five seasons in LaLiga for Barca: 12/13 - 1,44 (*), 11/12 - 1,10, 18/19 - 1,06, 09/10 - 1,04 and 14/15 - 1,01. (*) For players with more than 2000 minutes in a season, Messi's 12/13 season is the record in a top 5 league.
Haaland so far for City: 1,31 npG/90 ..........
Best ever in the PL:
Salah 17/18 - 0,96
Suarez 13/14 - 0,94 (1,03 for Barca in the 15/16 season)
Drogba 09/10 - 0,91
Ronaldo 07/08 - 0,88
Kane 17/18 - 0,85
Cole 93/94 - 0,85
Henry 05/06 - 0,81
Shearer 93/94 - 0,80
Again, we aren't looking at how many goals individually he scores. We are looking at the before and with him comparison of Haaland. What is the point in looking at their best seasons only when you have a decade worth of data to look at, a decade they've all been at their prime? They are the best strikers of the past decade, and they show that the best strikers don't consistently out perform xG. They have some seasons they do, others they don't, but their xG is relatively steady.
Messi is the greatest of all time and is one of the very few who consistently finishes about 15-20% over xG. In general though, it is very safe to assume that all footballers will regress to their xG over time, or close to it where it's not a significant difference.
Haaland is world class, no doubt there. But he funnels the chances and doesn't necessarily make City better, due to the way they play. As we see with them not creating more chances as a team, not having any more points as a team or better performances as a team. It's still only half a season, so time will tell. But i genuinely don't think he makes any difference to them in the PL, and the only place which will ultimately decide if his transfer made a difference to Man City is if they get over the line in the CL.
I don't think we disagree on much here really. At least when it comes to his impact on the team. We'll know somewhere down the line I guess.
I guess I believe you'll find good finishers that will consitantly beat their xG, you'll find bad finishers, inconsistant finishers and average finishers.
Haaland has been beating his xG between 22-46% (31% average) since he moved to Dortmund, while a player like Jesus has consistantly been underperforming his xG between -6 - -49% ( -26% average). There is literally 0% chance these will even out over their careers, Haaland is simple a far superior finisher.
Finishing and composure when finishing are skills just like positional and spacial awareness, movement, anticipation and timing is. Add physique, acceleration and pace to that and you have the most important skills to decide whether you are a good goalscorer or not. Great goalscorers are good at most of these things, but not many is good at all of them.
City are all over the place as a team with or without Haaland. They are not meeting the bar they had last season, and that can't be levelled at Haaland - evidenced again with how poor they were as a unit without him on the pitch for the majority of the game.
They look flat and drawn out compared to their usual selves.
They look flat and drawn out compared to their usual selves.
Why didn’t he start the last two games ? It’s weird. I would have get it if it was just one to rest him, but why both ?
I am curious to see if he is a Pep player or if it will finish like with Zlatan.
I am curious to see if he is a Pep player or if it will finish like with Zlatan.
Perhaps as he is the one good thing about the season for City and he's protecting him for the league and CL.