NonceUponATimeInEpsteinAndAndyLand

KirkDuyt said:
Cant they go after these people anyway? Surely the victims can identify a few of them. Name edited out.
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The victims have identified some of them but they were tossed out of Epstein’s trial by the judge who considered them not relevant to Epstein’s case. One of them identified Trump as the person she did a few hand jobs on and who eventually raped her. Then the rest of the info was sat on and some of the victims were too terrified to testify. Some of them were threatened.
 
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Grinner said:
I didn't think Epstein was a paedophile?
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People are very loose with the term. Ephebophile would probably be the right term but I suppose the difference is minimal when you're in a jail cell.
 
Red Defence said:
Ok thanks. You’d think the prison staff would have been extra vigilant in this case though ie no-one would have wanted him to be found dead on their watch.
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I'm not saying that there's zero chance of a conspiracy here (although I doubt it) but it kind of reminds me of the Harold Shipman case, a psychopath who convinced the prison authorities that he was sane so he'd be taken off suicide watch and then topped himself. Obviously you'd have to see the specific details here but it seems the will for political currency is the most important thing for most people.
 
2cents said:
EBnWsz8XYAAbca2
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:lol:
 
Classical Mechanic said:
If you want news to die you don’t release it on a slow day do you? You realise on a hot day so it gets buried under bigger stories.
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It might not apply in this instance, but the theory is you realise what is a big story but made to look like any other small story - because it’s a slow news day they don’t check as much or pay as much attention.

The idea isn’t to get it covered by something that grabs all the attention, it is to slip it under the radar with everything else deemed uninteresting.
 
Classical Mechanic said:
I'm not saying that there's zero chance of a conspiracy here (although I doubt it) but it kind of reminds me of the Harold Shipman case, a psychopath who convinced the prison authorities that he was sane so he'd be taken off suicide watch and then topped himself. Obviously you'd have to see the specific details here but it seems the will for political currency is the most important thing for most people.
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Having worked on psych wards I can assure you that people often harm themselves while they’re still on suicide watch. It usually just involves getting someone to check in on them on an hourly basis (with the frequency decreasing over time). A lot can happen in an hour. If he had been take off suicide watch then it gets even more straightforward. And that’s in a specialist centre.
 
Red Defence said:
How do people hang themselves in a prison cell anyway? What do they “hang” from exactly?
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It depends on the facility. I worked in administration at a couple law enforcement agencies that operated jails several years ago. In the second case, there was a suicide by hanging in the detention center.

There was a long-term project to replace the metal grilles over air vents, which had slats, with covers that only had tiny holes because the slats were a suicide risk. The case of the suicide didn't involve those. There were two pieces of metal over the windows in a t-shape that had just enough space behind them to slip a sheet on the cross piece, which is how the detainee managed to do it. Within a month, the cross piece had been covered to eliminate the space behind it in about 300 cells.

If someone is on suicide watch, they are typically placed in special cells with only a floor drain and clothed in a paper gown so they don't have anything to harm themselves with. The guards are required to check on them every 15 minutes in my state. Some facilities have padded cells or other special precautions.

I'm curious how Epstein managed to asphyxiate himself. I suppose he could use his bed or some other means to create the tension on the sheet or clothing he used.
 
Sir Matt said:
It depends on the facility. I worked in administration at a couple law enforcement agencies that operated jails several years ago. In the second case, there was a suicide by hanging in the detention center.

There was a long-term project to replace the metal grilles over air vents, which had slats, with covers that only had tiny holes because the slats were a suicide risk. The case of the suicide didn't involve those. There were two pieces of metal over the windows in a t-shape that had just enough space behind them to slip a sheet on the cross piece, which is how the detainee managed to do it. Within a month, the cross piece had been covered to eliminate the space behind it in about 300 cells.

If someone is on suicide watch, they are typically placed in special cells with only a floor drain and clothed in a paper gown so they don't have anything to harm themselves with. The guards are required to check on them every 15 minutes in my state. Some facilities have padded cells or other special precautions.

I'm curious how Epstein managed to asphyxiate himself. I suppose he could use his bed or some other means to create the tension on the sheet or clothing he used.
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He wasn't on suicide watch when he killed himself.
 
By the way, it should go without saying that the notion that there’s a network of all the most powerful people in America either fecking prepubescent kids or helping their pals feck prepubescent kids is highly fecking implausible. It’s very unusual to be a paedophile so it would be the mother and father of all coincidences that a who’s who of the rich and famous also all happened to be predatory paedophiles. And if you’re not a paedophile then it’s not exactly the kind of thing you’re going to let slide if you find out someone you know is fecking kids.

Now it’s definitely possible that powerful, wealthy men might hang out at sleazy parties where young women and teenage girls are invited along as eye candy. Berlusconi bunga bunga party sort of thing. Which is obviously grim, seedy behaviour from the men involved (even though similar grim, seedy behaviour happens at night clubs and house parties all over the world, every weekend) And it is illegal, if and when some of these men sleep with girls below the age of consent. Which I’m sure does happen, although probably not very frequently.

There’s a VERY big leap from all the above to accusations of coordinated paedophile rings, with people like Hilary Clinton pulling the strings. But hey, very big illogical leaps seem to be the way to go now that everyone spends their time whipping each other up into a lather on the internet.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
By the way, it should go without saying that the notion that there’s a network of all the most powerful people in America either fecking prepubescent kids or helping their pals feck prepubescent kids is highly fecking implausible. It’s very unusual to be a paedophile so it would be the mother and father of all coincidences that a who’s who of the rich and famous also all happened to be predatory paedophiles. And if you’re not a paedophile then it’s not exactly the kind of thing you’re going to let slide if you find out someone you know is fecking kids.

Now it’s definitely possible that powerful, wealthy men might hang out at sleazy parties where young women and teenage girls are invited along as eye candy. Berlusconi bunga bunga party sort of thing. Which is obviously grim, seedy behaviour from the men involved (even though similar grim, seedy behaviour happens at night clubs and house parties all over the world, every weekend) And it is illegal, if and when some of these men sleep with girls below the age of consent. Which I’m sure does happen, although probably not very frequently.

There’s a VERY big leap from all the above to accusations of coordinated paedophile rings, with people like Hilary Clinton pulling the strings. But hey, very big illogical leaps seem to be the way to go now that everyone spends their time whipping each other up into a lather on the internet.
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No one cares about the difference between paedophile and ephebophile dude. It's obvious what people mean when they talk about this and similar cases and you're writing hundreds of words about a distinction only you and people who memorize age of consent laws care about.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
There’s a VERY big leap from all the above to accusations of coordinated paedophile rings, with people like Hilary Clinton pulling the strings. But hey, very big illogical leaps seem to be the way to go now that everyone spends their time whipping each other up into a lather on the internet.
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How big a leap do you think it is to say I think a considerable number of rich and powerful men have sexually abused 13-15 year old child sex trafficking victims?
 
This anti-conspiracy sentiment is working on my nerves. It shits on the fact that there are real conspiracies out there.
 
Yeah like I'm sure bill clinton was on this guys plane so many times for totally normal reasons. And I'm equally sure that if he was doing anything untoward he was totally not use the resources at his disposal to protect his reputation and freedom. And you can apply the same logic to all of the other rich and powerful people who are involved in this.
 
VorZakone said:
This anti-conspiracy sentiment is working on my nerves. It shits on the fact that there are real conspiracies out there.
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This is one of the more believable ones especially as he was friends with a POTUS and a former one as well as a member of the royal family, he was a dead man walking.
 
MrMarcello said:
It's not fun arguing in circles with them!

The 9/11 nutters truly take the cake with the JFK nutters close second.
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Aye, I've previously wasted far too much time unproductively arguing about those two conspiracy theories on the internet.

As opposed to now, where I wisely spend far too much time unproductively arguing about football on the internet.
 
VorZakone said:
This anti-conspiracy sentiment is working on my nerves. It shits on the fact that there are real conspiracies out there.
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Except the real conspiracies are of little interest to the people who are conspiracy theorists. They almost always believe complete nonsense.
 
Eboue said:
By the way, anyone who doesnt believe the rich and powerful are involved in creepy sex stuff is naive. And a subset of that group is involved in creepy sex stuff with teenagers.
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What a weird statement. All of them or just some of them? What is ‘creepy sex stuff’?
 
Not one for conspiracy theories , but no way did he kill himself.
 
Eboue said:
Who here honestly believes he killed himself?
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Him committing suicide seems likely to me. But the fact that he wasn't under suicide watch anymore, therefore giving him the opportunity to commit suicide, that's the fishy part for me.
 
Eboue said:
Who here honestly believes he killed himself?
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I think he probably killed himself but I don't rule out the alternative. I'm very sceptical that if it was suicide, the fact it was allowed to happen was due to negligence. I lean more towards him being deliberately given opportunity to kill himself and the reason he was given opportunity being due to fears over him implicating a powerful person or persons.
 
Something really odd about this one.
 
A good quick rule with conspiracy theories is to ask how many people would have to be involved to make it happen. The more people, the less likely. Which I guess means this is a relatively plausible one?

Maybe I'm naive but I don't find the idea of someone facing jail time for trafficking underage girls deciding to commit suicide that implausible though.
 
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