I think deep down every player knew their captain is a liability, and what would you do if your senior head of departmetn is an incompetent idiot..? You just carry along, half arsed. Must be a relief seeing him dropped for an actual footballer. Obviously morale will be higher. It helps to play Liverpool at home too.
No Ronaldo, no Maguire, no Coincidence
- Thread starter Pexbo
- Start date
I hope ETH use this to break the player power within the squad and exert influence over them. The cliques needed to be broken. Should be easy now that pogba and lingard is no longer here. If you can drop your captain and GOAT ronaldo, every position is up for grab.
Raising your game and work rate are two different things.
Go and watch the Brighton and Brentford games again and tell me that we did as much as we could.
Yes, I understand there was a lot of pressure, it was the same for Liverpool. That's football!
The minimum the fans wanted; however, was to see the players fight for the shirt, and they did that yesterday.
Yes. Shaw should be included too, because Malacia also came in and did a fantastic job.
No shaw also helped tighten up the defense.
This is so true, I think Marcus Rashford felt he had become 'untouchable', but last night he put a shift in probably realising exactly what you have just said. I just hope this manager doesn't come under undue influence from the money-men to play big name players who aren't doing the business anymore.
One of the other changes was to McT, he was told to stay in midfield and not become the attacker. First 2 games he was the furthest forward multiple occasions leaving space in midfield to be over run. He played well and seemed to understand the role and whats expected from him.
Malacia was an absolute beast as well in defence, even when losing the ball he was able to win it back very quickly, confident on the ball as well and always getting up the pitch but still getting back to defend.
Martinez was different class, right from the beginning banging into Salah to let him know it wont be an easy game, my vote for MOTM.
Malacia was an absolute beast as well in defence, even when losing the ball he was able to win it back very quickly, confident on the ball as well and always getting up the pitch but still getting back to defend.
Martinez was different class, right from the beginning banging into Salah to let him know it wont be an easy game, my vote for MOTM.
Do you have any evidence for this or are just spouting nonsense?
Long season. Horses for courses. We aren’t going to be winning the prem, but if we utilize the squad properly there is no reason why we can’t get fourth.
Sell Maguire, sack Coincidence.
We seen this before. Many times our previous managers drop certain players over the years, we will pick up the performance and then for some reason they will walk back into the line up and start stinking again. I think probably pressure higher up or the sponsors, im not sure.
That kinda things completely undermines managers hold on the squad and their get over their heads and we start dropping points. Im not even sure how the sponsors or our owners going to react if ronaldo not being used often. How the player himself going to react is another issue altogether. ETH have lotta headaches to deal with.
Your post is only a one liner but I whole heartedly agree with it.
I thought that Martinez and Malacia were absolutely tenacious, and that Varane was composed and effective. To drop any of Varane, Martinez or Malacia would be criminal.
I saw Rashford and Sancho actually sprint back to cover a tackle rather than lightly jog behind the attacking player. An absolutely huge improvement. I know, I know, that Rashford scored and he took his chance really well but that is the only style of goal he scores, along with the odd, cut inside and let it fly from long range. As a winger because he plays on the left he can't beat a defender a cross, and he isn't a striker. So I don't think he contributes much.
Sancho, I was delighted to see him score from the middle of the box as last year when spent so much time yelling at him to get off the wing and into the box when we are attacking. He is supposed to be a superstar but I haven't seen him be noticeably better than Dan James so far. We need a true goal scorer.
Both were unrecognizable from the last 2 years in their improvement yesterday and maybe they work with true striker but I'm not convinced. We didn't see enough of Martial to comment but I don't think he is the answer.
I don't think Ronaldo will work with this team, we played in the back and used the counter attack with Rashford speed and Ronaldo doesn't have that anymore, maybe this game was a way to try to convince the owners to let Ronaldo go.. and Maguire..and Shaw.
Dont forget slowfox Matic.
… and Mata, but he didn’t play much and likely doesn’t count.
3 matches in 8 days from next Saturday. Maguire and Shaw will get games, they will be needed for rotation or injury/suspension cover. Not sure about Ronaldo though.
Maguire's lack of agility and mobility was guaranteed to be an issue from the moment he was signed. Even 3-4 years ago he was a slow on the turn and lacked any acceleration, made signing him an odd choice that would be restrictive tactically. Ronaldo was only worthwhile if Utd thought he could push the team over the top to pick up a trophy or 2. As soon as that was unlikely(about 2 weeks into last season) there was no point in him being here, for him and for Utd. The redevelopment needed can not be sidetracked by feeding an individual's ego. Release him and move on, late him chase his CL goals
My evidence is that last season he scored 4 PL goals and made 4 assists yet was still finding himself on the teamsheet. In many games he has been strolling about not sprinting & according to many other posters on Red Cafe he has been short of confidence and short of effort.
Last night was different and I'm convinced it was because Ronaldo was on the bench (yes, I know the same was true in Game week 1 vs Brighton), but at home vs a big rival and with the crowd backing the team tremendously, he played well and scored a good goal too.
I want Rashford to do well, it is the World Cup in three months.
Maguire, shaw and ronaldo will get more games but the difference this time is that if they don't deliver with their next 2 or 3 starts I can see ten hag coming down hard on them and confining them to cameos and low level opposition cup games.
There were a number of players last season who were finding themselves on the team sheets yet not performing. Rashford was actually dropped for a few games by Ralf.
I think the break in the summer and the change in management has helped and hopefully he has a great season.
This. 100%
Think there is some truth to this. Ronaldo can't play in a possession-pressing team and he can't play in a counter-attacking team. And he wants us to build a team around him?
No Lindelof either. The one thing I noticed was how Ten Hag has changed the back 4 completely from the one that would start day in, day out for Ole. Clearly he thought that's our weakest link, and so he has spent money there first + on CDM.
Malacia for Shaw wasn't as 'necessary' than other positions according to most fans. Also Martinez was not a priority - and ETH was being questioned for wasting his transfer budget on a position we had already filled out.
I'm not saying all his decisions are vindicated in 1 game - but my word, the character and fight that was on display was so good. Those two players (and Varane) just transformed the energy of the whole team.
Also, a shout out to Varane. If you see the start of the game, he comes out of the dressing room chest up, chin high and walking like he owns the place. Anyone watching that knows that he is up for it today. Don't think we've had a CB come out for a big game with that authority in a while. It was infectious. It made me think (watching on the telly) that United are up for this. We have a chance. (I was hoping we keep the score line down and show some fight at least before that moment).
People are overrating this performance. We parked the bus. That's it.
We did the same in big games with Ole with both Shaw and Maguire and looked better than we did here.
Let's see how we do when we actually try to play football in a big game.
We did the same in big games with Ole with both Shaw and Maguire and looked better than we did here.
Let's see how we do when we actually try to play football in a big game.
It was not a great performance by all means but it was solid enough to give us victory. We did play good football for about 20 min.
The work ethic made the difference and that’s a good start, lets see if they keep that mindset
The work ethic made the difference and that’s a good start, lets see if they keep that mindset
It is only first step, dropping the underperformers, and with Casemiro in the building, Bruno for example can be dropped with Eriksen preferred, I do not mean that Bruno was bad vs Liverpool but he was bad vs Brentford and still was not dropped, probably due to the lack of option.
I do not want to see any player being a guaranteed starter, even Varane & Martinez, as long as they perform well consistently, then they are the starters, otherwise, Maguire will be given his chance again, same as our attackers, assuming the starters are Sancho+Martial+Rashford, if they underperform, then Ronaldo will be given his chance, maybe a new signing will be in the starting 11 (Antony or Gakpo).
What I want to see from Ten Hag is that high standards must be maintained at all times and no one is exempt from banishment to the bench.
Btw, I am not making a case for Maguire to be given a chance or restored to the starting 11, it is just an overall point of the players knowing that they have a place in the starting 11 only when they consistently play well.
I do not want to see any player being a guaranteed starter, even Varane & Martinez, as long as they perform well consistently, then they are the starters, otherwise, Maguire will be given his chance again, same as our attackers, assuming the starters are Sancho+Martial+Rashford, if they underperform, then Ronaldo will be given his chance, maybe a new signing will be in the starting 11 (Antony or Gakpo).
What I want to see from Ten Hag is that high standards must be maintained at all times and no one is exempt from banishment to the bench.
Btw, I am not making a case for Maguire to be given a chance or restored to the starting 11, it is just an overall point of the players knowing that they have a place in the starting 11 only when they consistently play well.
It is when it comes to getting our current side to perform at its absolute best. Context matters.
Should Martinez have been dropped for a few games after he was much worse than Maguire in our opening two losses ? Or does it only apply to the unpopular five or six players. Presume mctominay should stay in the team after his good performance ?
To answer your first question, Nope, Ten Hag himself said he would've subbed 11 players when he subbed off Martinez vs Brentford, Martinez wasn't the worst player in that horror vs Liverpool.
To answer your second question, my post is clear, underperformers should be benched, I even included Varane & Martinez who performed extremely well vs Liverpool to be benched when they underperform.
To answer you third question, McTominay was benched vs Brentford, and he did ok vs Liverpool but now we have brought in a WC DM in Casemiro, so obviously he is benched, for example if tomorrow the club brings in Hakimi, that means Dalot goes to the bench. Casemiro should be given a chance to start and get up to speed and lock the DM position.
Sorry but I don`t get how Marcus Rashford `felt he had become untouchable`. The lad clearly felt a huge burden over the decline of United and his own role in struggling on the pitch. It should be obvious by now that he`s the kind of player who has confidence issues when he is amid instability - and he shouldn`t be denigrated for that.
The midfield problems also affected him badly - look at how different he and Jadon were with a properly functioning midfield. You can`t separate our attackers` struggles from a dysfunctional midfield given midfield is the lynchpin of a team like United.
I am not saying you think this way but I`ve become tired of people attacking Marcus for this and that including wearing contemporary urban fashion when co-hosting a United event, having some laughs on holidays with the likes of Jesse when no crimes were committed and for celebrating his engagement with an instagram post that was nothing to criticise. Marcus has struggled in a struggling team and as one of the homegrown it certainly hurt him more than most other players.
As for Ronaldo - sure, he would have slowed down the side if he had started but he is still a very useful player used strategically. Should he start most games? No but he still has a valuable role to play. I also think some are misjudging his attitude - the man is a winner, he has proved it, he is still hungry and you can bet your bottom dollar the conflicts he had with other players before TH were nearly all to do with their lack of gumption and guts.
Sometimes I write something on here and then read something else that makes me regret it, this is an example of that. I recently read a thing in the Guardian newspaper explaining how first Jose Mourinho (putting him out wide) then Ronaldo's return (slowing everything down) has really impacted on Marcus Rashford's game.
I also heard recently (on Radio) that the events in the penalty shootout in July 2021 (Euro finals) effected him deeply and I was sad to hear about that, penalty shootouts are bad at the best of times, at club level, but when 26 million people are watching on TV, that is some other level of pressure.
I just hope that goal on Monday night and the whole fallout (positive) from the Liverpool win can help get Marcus Rashford back to his best, for Manchester United and for England too.
As regards the actual thread: no Maguire, no Ronaldo, at least we know who has been busy slagging them off on twitter: Erik Ten Hag!!!
Last edited:
I've got a feeling ETH will start with Maguire at Southampton, just so he doesn't spit his dummy out
I hope not
I hope not