NO manager can fix this!

I think the crux of it is that until we change who is above the manager, we will need a miracle worker to be successful.

We can sack ten Hag and maybe should soon but we've been down this road before and we'll down it again.
 
bosnian_red said:
Nothing will change until Ratcliffe comes in and changes the strategy from the top. Too much toxic noise around the club constantly.
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Ratcliffe is buying 25% of the club. He's changing feck all because the problem will still have 75% of the club. Anyone thinking anything's going to change once the deal goes through is in for a disappointment.

Well that's not true, one thing will change. The Glazers will be 1,3 billion richer.
 
big_jeffstar said:
It’s all down to recruitment, we’ve bought terribly and it always bites us on the arse..you could argue that our first 11 probably wouldn’t get on city’s bench
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We bought players he wanted, though
 
horsechoker said:
It kinda proves my point though, you hire a DOF/DOT who actually has a scoobie doo and don't say yes to every player the manager wants.

We're basically trying to replicate Fergie.
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I think its been long enough that this isn't happening, although I agree with the bolded part. We do have DOF and DOT

But I still think a competent manager does a better job with 400m, we said no to Jose if you believe what the papers say.
I just think we have a shit manager to be honest

The board are shite as well, but they'll get lucky at some point and bring someone in who can bring in a couple players who hit the ground running, unfortunately ETH is not that man, I do not trust him at all with the rebuild
 
Zidane perhaps, but he wont come because he cannot speak english and secondly we are a graveyard for managers at this stage.
 
SirScholes said:
I think its been long enough that this isn't happening, although I agree with the bolded part

But I still think a competent manager does a better job with 400m, we said no to Jose if you believe what the papers say.
I just think we have a shit manager to be honest

The board are shite as well, but they'll get lucky at some point and bring someone in who can bring in a couple players who hit the ground running, unfortunately ETH is not that man, I do not trust him at all with the rebuild
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José wanted Maguire and we said no then signed him after he went.

Managers aren't really scouts anyway, ten Hag was onto a winning formula with Overmars, may be we should bring him in too.
 
SirScholes said:
I think its been long enough that this isn't happening, although I agree with the bolded part. We do have DOF and DOT

But I still think a competent manager does a better job with 400m, we said no to Jose if you believe what the papers say.
I just think we have a shit manager to be honest

The board are shite as well, but they'll get lucky at some point and bring someone in who can bring in a couple players who hit the ground running, unfortunately ETH is not that man, I do not trust him at all with the rebuild
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Yea i agree. If we had pep and city had ten hag, we would be doing much better and city wouldnt be doing as good.

The buck stops with the manager. We were so good under ferguson because of ferguson.
 
soralapio said:
Ratcliffe is buying 25% of the club. He's changing feck all because the problem will still have 75% of the club. Anyone thinking anything's going to change once the deal goes through is in for a disappointment.

Well that's not true, one thing will change. The Glazers will be 1,3 billion richer.
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Things can change because somebody else will be in charge of the sporting side of things. Ratcliffe can implement the structure he wants.

Glazers' mere presence isn't what is causing this. They are shit and make bad decisions. Somebody else *might* make better decisions. At the very least, Ratcliffe cares enough to actually want to be in charge of it which the Glazers just didn't care to do. So it's an improvement.
 
Lets be honest, it's very rare to have a manager fix this, he would have to be very multi talented. Many have come here with good intentions and quickly fallen down the same path of useless expensive buys and cautious or counter attack football and pressure of top 4.

LVG called it out, an empty club with no direction. He quickly went for a bunch of targets that failed. A new manager comes in and is tasked with recruitment and they get it woefully wrong. Players are often too old to last more than a few months, we end up with a stack of attacking mids and left sided players . No balance at all, difficult to train players and accommodating past expensive mistakes, they all fall into the pressure of top 4, can't trust the squad, injuries, knackered players.

ETH wanted De Jong, he should've been focusing on doing it with similar players. He has succumbed to the Old Trafford disease. There were big warning signs of his looking into our past teams this summer to figure out a plan and talking about being a fast transition team, buying Mount.
 
SirScholes said:
absolute tripe, you give a good manager 400m to spend and they spend it wisely and you fix issues
ffs eddie howe has managed it at Newcastle by following basic principles and not blowing 80 mil on a shite winger from the dutch league
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Howe didn't sign his players, they have a director of football to do that. We for some reason let our managers sign our players. ETH had Overmars at Ajax.
 
It’s one of the reasons I’m reluctant and non-plussed to keep ETH in. Who the feck do we even get in now? And how long before they turn to shit? Do the Glazers even care? Are they going to finally make some changes at football board level or are they just going to hope the next guy is a new Ferguson?

I was really hoping a complete takeover would happen as the Glazers are the one constant in our woes, but here we are staring down the barrel of INEOS working with them. I’d be happy if INEOS were majority holders and the Glazers were shoved into the storage closet collecting meagre dividends or something.

And even this takeover shit is protracted. Everything about Manchester United is protracted and drawn out so much. I probably ask for a cup of coffee from the canteen I probably have to wait two months before it arrives because Joel in fecking Tampa needs to sign the fecker off and be assured that it won’t eat into his dividends.
 
I don't know what 'fix this' means, but another manager can certainly get us playing better. The job appears to have swallowed Ten Hag. He's looking lost out there.
 
Terribly drilled team, no structure, no patterns of play, pi$$ed 400M+ up the wall. Bizarre team selection and substitutions, lack of tactical nous.

It’s all on him. ETH out asap for me at this point.
 
Okey said:
I don't know what 'fix this' means, but another manager can certainly get us playing better. The job appears to have swallowed Ten Hag. He's looking lost out there.
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Fix the team, fix the board, fix the sporting directors, fix the stadium.

If the limit of our ambition as fans is just to "play better" then we really have fallen off a cliff.
 
The main problem is an ex-manager still at the club glowering and staring into the back of every managers head sine he resigned, remember he also brought in the Glazers to get himself more power in the club. Liverpool told Bill Shankly to stay away from the ground so Bob Paisley could make his mark with the players & club.
 
The only point that is in ETHs favour is that Arteta went through an even worse period of form. With no attacking style. Then it all clicked.
 
horsechoker said:
Pep being elite tier carries them that extra 15 per cent.

Replace Pep with just a very good manager and City still win titles but not as many and maybe have an off season once in a while.
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Do we really need CEO, chairman, sporting directors in sync so that we can score a few goals and have a positive GD?

I half agree with OP that the upper management is a problem but I just can't defend the brand of football this manager is serving after spending so much money on his OWN choice of players.
 
I’ve supported him up to now. We’re going backwards. Don’t cling to a mistake just because it takes a long time to make.

Replace as soon as possible. With who? I don’t know, that’s not my decision to make, nor do I have the expertise to suggest who.
 
horsechoker said:
Pep being elite tier carries them that extra 15 per cent.

Replace Pep with just a very good manager and City still win titles but not as many and maybe have an off season once in a while.
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That's my point, the off field structure guarantees some form of success regardless of the managerial change. Our off the field structure is so broken that simply putting in a world class manager is not going to fix anything, just paper over the cracks.
 
ayushreddevil9 said:
Do we really need CEO, chairman, sporting directors in sync so that we can score a few goals and have a positive GD?

I half agree with OP that the upper management is a problem but I just can't defend the brand of football this manager is serving after spending so much money on his OWN choice of players.
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Really yeah, it's little things that all add up to this. We've had periods where we've played quite well followed by even longer ones playing shite. We change the manager, by new players and end up back here.
 
There are absolutely managers out out there who could coach the team better, avoid these constant drubbings and get more wins against the top 6. The defence for ETH is getting more desperate.
 
People need some perspective. Yes our ownership situation is dire as they couldn’t give a feck about the team.

But I also think that’s true of Liverpool and Arsenal. Their owners don’t care either. I know Arsenal haven’t won anything yet, but after 20 years and 6 years out of the CL they challenged last year. Liverpool won the league after 30 years and spent 9 years out of the CL. We are only on a 10 year drought and haven’t even spent more than 1 year out of the CL. Those clubs finally stumbled across a formula and the right manager.

The point is it’s trial and error when you’re not an oil club. We had it so good for so long. Eventually we will stumble across the right manager. It’s time to move the current one along and hope that happens now. Unfortunately it could also happen in 20 years time. Doesn’t help when you’ve got an era of crazy dominance to follow.
 
Compton22 said:
Fix the team, fix the board, fix the sporting directors, fix the stadium.

If the limit of our ambition as fans is just to "play better" then we really have fallen off a cliff.
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Fair enough. But we are a football team. Surely we have to play well as an integral part of whatever else we're doing. It just doesn't look like it's working on the pitch right now. I get your point though. Everything really starts from the top.
 
TheGodsInRed said:
Howe didn't sign his players, they have a director of football to do that. We for some reason let our managers sign our players. ETH had Overmars at Ajax.
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Almost all managers will have a say, they wont just get given players.

"Eddie Howe was the chief driver of Newcastle's push to sign Gordon in January as he looks to bring younger players into his squad."
 
Hugh Jass said:
Yea i agree. If we had pep and city had ten hag, we would be doing much better and city wouldnt be doing as good.

The buck stops with the manager. We were so good under ferguson because of ferguson.
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It helped for sure, but we shouldn't forget that we were one of the first clubs to really go deep down the marketing route, especially the international one. We were the financial top dog for a while which helped recruitment for sure. Obviously having Fergie was a main factor but it wasn't just him. Football has changed. Everything became more intertwined and complex. And beside us, there are so much more player in the recruitment market.

I am not too happy with where we are and I would hope, that ETH changes some of his standpoints. But a full reset with another new manager will only lead to us losing more time by going nowhere. Its simply not just the manager, I know I sang a different song back then with Ole but at this point, it is safe to say that the challenge at hand is pretty big and just rolling the dice until we finally come up with coincidental match doesn't seem reasonable. We have to suffer for the bad decisions we made at some point, no way to shortcut it. Maybe we do need a season completely out of Europe.
 
Who's Kissing Cameras? said:
The only point that is in ETHs favour is that Arteta went through an even worse period of form. With no attacking style. Then it all clicked.
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They could probably point to points of progress though. My issue is that I see no progress, only serious regression and have no idea how it gets better with the way the team are playing at the moment and the players in the starting line-up.
 
SirScholes said:
Almost all managers will have a say, they wont just get given players.

"Eddie Howe was the chief driver of Newcastle's push to sign Gordon in January as he looks to bring younger players into his squad."
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We could also praise ten Hag for signing a 5'8 centre back and it working for a season
 
Ten Hag is just making things worse at the moment. Not just failed to fix it, he's making it worse.
 
Who's Kissing Cameras? said:
The only point that is in ETHs favour is that Arteta went through an even worse period of form. With no attacking style. Then it all clicked.
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If you look at that Arsenal series, you will see that the owners are working with Arteta and Edu to buy the right players .. and the Arsenal owners have a history of winning ...
Same as liverpools owner ...
Ours -- they have never set foot in manchester
Have somehow fluked.a super bowl due to Tom brady..
Using the club like. a rental property..
As long as the rent is covered . .....make no changes ..
 
Honestly I don't think a manager can fix this either. The club is rotten from the top down. Filled with money men and yes men, and not football men.

This structure has enabled the players to essentially take over. With huge wages, loooong contracts regardless of effort or talent, and the power to remove any manager they don't like simply by playing shit and knowing they're immune.

It's a no-win situation for a manager without the support of top class people around and above him.
 
The owners don’t care really. All they care about now is getting a billion off Ratcliffe and putting their feet up.
 
M Bison said:
so is us giving the manager too much control not an ownership issue then rather than an issue with the manager? And if we are swapping the manager, who do we replace him with?

if It’s as simple as changing the manager, we should definitely do it, however I think we’ll be back here in another 12 months having spent another fortune and be in an even worse position, plus I think any manager worth his salt would run a mile from the job at the moment, the whole club is in a mess, we don’t even know who is going to be in control by the end of the season.
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I agree. But the Glazers just sign the cheques. They don’t know what they are doing but the people doing the day to day are awful. The CEO still probably calls Woodward for advice. The DoF need to go back and joint Moyes whilst are manager can’t identify a player or pick a starting 11 to save his life. It’s all a shambles but the buck stops on the field.
 
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