Nicola Sturgeon and Scottish Independence

Todays the day we get Humza no doubt.

A title change will be needed!
 
I always thought it was likely that a quite a few of the people who told opinion pollsters that they supported independence when there was no prospect of it happening, when push came to shove would vote to remain in the UK if Indy Ref 2 if actually happened, reality set in and they were faced with serious discussions about borders, currency, fiscal transfers etc. The case for Indy Ref 2, with the outcome of the 2016 EU referendum and voting trends in every Scottish counting area, plus the fact that each of the last 3 Scottish elections have resulted in the majority of MSPs in Holyrood supporting independence, was always a different kettle of fish and much easier to make than the case for independence itself.

I always sympathised with the argument that Scotland has been dragged out of the EU against their will though. For me it was clear that the best thing for Scotland was remaining part of both the UK and EU, and that was how the majority of people at the ballot boxes / Scottish ballot boxes voted in both 2014 (in 28/32 counting areas) and in 2016 (in 32/32 counting areas).
 
GuybrushThreepwood said:
I always thought it was likely that a quite a few of the people who told opinion pollsters that they supported independence when there was no prospect of it happening, when push came to shove would vote to remain in the UK if Indy Ref 2 if actually happened, reality set in and they were faced with serious discussions about borders, currency, fiscal transfers etc. The case for Indy Ref 2, with the outcome of the 2016 EU referendum and voting trends in every Scottish counting area, plus the fact that each of the last 3 Scottish elections have resulted in the majority of MSPs in Holyrood supporting independence, was always a different kettle of fish and much easier to make than the case for independence itself.

I always sympathised with the argument that Scotland has been dragged out of the EU against their will though. For me it was clear that the best thing for Scotland was remaining part of both the UK and EU, and that was how the majority of people at the ballot boxes / Scottish ballot boxes voted in both 2014 (in 28/32 counting areas) and in 2016 (in 32/32 counting areas).
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I think that's broadly true. The overwhelming driver for sentiment towards independence, it seems to me, is to escape the eternal Westminster right wing hegemony and not really based on a genuine nationalist impulse in the truest sense and they may well result in voting patterns in a second referendum that don't represent the current opinion polls.
 
hobbers said:
52% Yousaf 47% Forbes after Regan was eliminated.

So in the end a split party led by a clown.
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Absolutely wild that Humza failed in all his previous roles and has somehow ended up FM.
 
Congratulations SNP :lol: on electing Humza “where are all the men?” Yousaf.
 
I had an argument (not a sky sports style ‘heated’ one though thankfully), with a SNP supporting friend that the party are essentially a coalition of independence supporters with a wide range of different views on domestic policies. He argued that’s not true and that there is a fixed centre left alignment, but I don’t buy that at all, especially when looking at their record in office in Holyrood.

If they did achieve their dream of independence (though that seems even further away to me now that it was when the 2019 and 2021 general and Scottish election results came in), it’s clear to me that the party would disband / split according to political views.

BTW I agree that Humza Yousaf is absolutely hopeless and has failed across the board during his career.
 
Fingeredmouse said:
I think that's broadly true. The overwhelming driver for sentiment towards independence, it seems to me, is to escape the eternal Westminster right wing hegemony and not really based on a genuine nationalist impulse in the truest sense and they may well result in voting patterns in a second referendum that don't represent the current opinion polls.
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Agreed. Some of the people I spoke to who said they supported independence, mainly talked about their dislike of the Tory / Tory-led Westminster governments since 2010 (which many of us can agree on) - that's enough for them to support indpendence when Indy Ref 2 isn't even on the horizon, but I doubt it would be if they were actually faced with making the import voting decision.

I personally think that the EU referendum result, coupled with the fact that more people voted to remain than leave in every single counting area in Scotland, was a material change in circumstances since 2014 (I don't see how it wouldn't be) to justify Indy Ref 2. However in the unlikely event that Indy Ref 2 happens, I would expect 'No' to win again. Certainly Labour wouldn't repeat their castastrophic decision to share a platform with the Tories like they did in 2014.
 
GuybrushThreepwood said:
I always thought it was likely that a quite a few of the people who told opinion pollsters that they supported independence when there was no prospect of it happening, when push came to shove would vote to remain in the UK if Indy Ref 2 if actually happened, reality set in and they were faced with serious discussions about borders, currency, fiscal transfers etc. The case for Indy Ref 2, with the outcome of the 2016 EU referendum and voting trends in every Scottish counting area, plus the fact that each of the last 3 Scottish elections have resulted in the majority of MSPs in Holyrood supporting independence, was always a different kettle of fish and much easier to make than the case for independence itself.

I always sympathised with the argument that Scotland has been dragged out of the EU against their will though. For me it was clear that the best thing for Scotland was remaining part of both the UK and EU, and that was how the majority of people at the ballot boxes / Scottish ballot boxes voted in both 2014 (in 28/32 counting areas) and in 2016 (in 32/32 counting areas).
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For me the vote for independence seemed necessary after the Brexit vote. The main purpose for me was to remove the shackles of a Westminster government that have zero interest in anything going on outside of their postcode. Brexit just confirmed it after their Indyref "Better Together" bullshit and how media outlets such as the BBC suddenly started giving a shit about Scottish news and opinions for all of five seconds. It was like an absent parent trying to make amends by going overboard for a few days before reverting to type. That "type" now being leaving the EU after Scotland collectively voted against it, and the news went back to its normal London-centric self.

Anyway, the SNP failed to make a case because they have nothing but empty rhetoric. My Facebook feed is, to this day, still filled with shitty IndyRef 2.0 posts such as "Scottish Tax Revenue = £20Bn, Scotland Gets Back £10Bn from England. INDEPENDENCE NOW #IndyRef2 #MelGibson" because apparently it still resonates with some people. It's like Brexit if the idiots were on the side that fundamentally wanted to vote for a good thing.

I can look at some of the things that are good about Scotland today; free prescriptions, free university education, free public transport in certain local authorities. At least my taxes aren't just going in some rich donor's pockets. But that isn't something that only the SNP could exclusively deliver.
 
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Listening to the BBC news this morning...it's all "first minority devolved leader, sunak in no10, look how forward thinking and liberal we are". Nothing about how objectively shite Humza has been, nothing about politics.

What's going on?!
 
Fingeredmouse said:
I think that's broadly true. The overwhelming driver for sentiment towards independence, it seems to me, is to escape the eternal Westminster right wing hegemony and not really based on a genuine nationalist impulse in the truest sense and they may well result in voting patterns in a second referendum that don't represent the current opinion polls.
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I am very much on the outside looking in, but if I were Scottish, I'd wish to go independent as it seems clear to me that the current system is not properly representative for the Scottish electorate and will always be a second rate priority to the whims of English concerns. Exemplified by brexit, but it is endemic to the setup.
 
What are all these tweets I'm seeing about an Indian and a Pakistani in charge of separation of the UK. Rule and then divide. :lol:
 
At least Sunak has some sort of Calibre to lead, Scotland does have a much smaller population so I guess the talent pool is also smaller.

Do the Scottish in here want independence? It seems that most of Scotland doesn’t they voted no, why does the conversation persist, doesn’t Scotland get more budget than they would if they left?
 
dal said:
At least Sunak has some sort of Calibre to lead, Scotland does have a much smaller population so I guess the talent pool is also smaller.

Do the Scottish in here want independence? It seems that most of Scotland doesn’t they voted no, why does the conversation persist, doesn’t Scotland get more budget than they would if they left?
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Vocal minorities always shout the loudest.
 
In October and November last year the Truss thing was going full pelt. There was a spike in those who though Brexit was a disaster, in support for Labour over the Cons, and in Scottish independence sentiment. Rishi has brought some measure of stability, but its only a holding position, not a reversal. The new SNP leader too seems like oil on the waters, the establishment guy (of the SNP). Not the one, it seems to me, to get to the next level. But a solid pair of hands for the waiting years. Sinn Féin in a similar place in the North of Ireland.
 
My wife used to work in that building :lol:
 
this is the kind of thing that happens when you idolise false prophets. boris would never have done the scots this dirty.
 
Liberal my arse. They're a shower of cnuts in the SNP, but the thickos will continue to vote for them. Embarrassing.
 
Apparently the police have started to dig up the garden. This might be about to turn real sinister.
 
hobbers said:
It does seem properly weird that a white collar fraud investigation would need police tents and barricades around the suspects house.
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Absolutely. Although, that statement comes with the heavy caveat that I know feck all about such matters.
 
hobbers said:
It does seem properly weird that a white collar fraud investigation would need police tents and barricades around the suspects house.
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Police are generally Tory wankers, they’re going to milk every bit of this.
 
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