Nick Powell

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Pogue Mahone said:
Anyone know how he's been getting on in general? Anything interesting on the Foxes fan sites?

Had very high hopes for this dude but can't shake the sneaking suspicion that he just won't cut it at the highest level.
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He's yet to make a first team appearance, injured I think, so they don't know. Leicester fans are wankers anyway.
 
Leicester fans initially thought Lingard, Drinkwater, James, M.Keane were all shit. Until they shook off any injury problems, started playing regularly, then they realised they were all pretty good (bar Lingard as he was constantly injured there, they still think he's shit).
It'll no doubt be the same with Powell and Lawrence.
 
golden_blunder said:
aha, all becomes clear. Its Leicester's bench

I cant see tweets at work..makes it kinda difficult!
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Ah, I did not know work places blocked twitter. Will write out the tweets in future so people can see them.


Finished 3-2 to Leicester. Matty James was also involved and won them a penalty. Not sure how long Powell played though.
 
So he has gone from playing for our u21 team, to playing for their u21 team. Pointless.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
With hindsight. The plan was - obviously - that he force his way into their best XI. If he can't do that, then there was clearly no point in keeping him at United.
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Yep, unfortunately he seem's like his talent is going to waste. All the skill without the graft I fear.
 
He is just 20 years old, just give him a year or two and if after that he is unable to perform at the top level then pass the judgement.
 
I don't really understand why we loan players to teams struggling down at the bottom of the league. They just don't have the time to accommodate young players and the run of games they need to develop.

The counter argument is that Powell should be good enough to force his way into the team, which I can accept, but a newly-promoted manager is always going to have that bit more trust in the lads that helped the team climb divisions.

I haven't got much to go off, but I suspect another loan to a Championship club that will play him in midfield would have been a better option.
 
Kag said:
I don't really understand why we loan players to teams struggling down at the bottom of the league. They just don't have the time to accommodate young players and the run of games they need to develop.

The counter argument is that Powell should be good enough to force his way into the team, which I can accept, but a newly-promoted manager is always going to have that bit more trust in the lads that helped the team climb divisions.

I haven't got much to go off, but I suspect another loan to a Championship club that will play him in midfield would have been a better option.
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He had nothing left to prove at that level.

It's a tricky one. Really hard to engineer a succesful PL loan. It is possible, though. Look at Wisdom at WBA or Welbeck and Evans when they went to Sunderland
 
Kag said:
I don't really understand why we loan players to teams struggling down at the bottom of the league. They just don't have the time to accommodate young players and the run of games they need to develop.
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I can sort of understand how this happens with some of our younger, more lightweight players who are all about their skills but don't have the experience or toughness. But with the experience he's had on other loans, and the type of player he is, Powell should be perfectly set to break into the Leicester team. If he can't then either he's just not developing, or their manager is a buffoon.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
He had nothing left to prove at that level.

It's a tricky one. Really hard to engineer a succesful PL loan. It is possible, though. Look at Wisdom at WBA or Welbeck and Evans when they went to Sunderland
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Despite the fact I'd argue that Powell does infact have much to prove at that level lets say that he doesn't and you could say neither has someone like Will Hughes but he's continuing to thrive at Derby and becoming a better player in the process by virtue of playing regular competitive football.

Agree with Kag, rarely do these loans to struggling Premier League sides pay off. Would much rather either simply keep him training at or club or get him regular football in the Championship.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
He had nothing left to prove at that level.

It's a tricky one. Really hard to engineer a succesful PL loan. It is possible, though. Look at Wisdom at WBA or Welbeck and Evans when they went to Sunderland
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I think it depends where he, or Van Gaal and the coaching staff, see his future position. If we still think he's a central midfielder then I think a loan to Championship club would be a good idea. Unless you're as good as Jack Wilshere was in his teens, it's so difficult so force your way into a Premier League midfield, usually the position stocked full of the team's strongest players.

If he's a second striker and he'd go on to have a similar loan to that of the one at Wigan then I think you're right, it'd be a waste of time.
 
I think the problem is, the smaller teams that usually take loans cannot carry a lazy/flairy type player in their first team. They normally opt for hard working "put it about" type individuals, who although might not win you a game by themselves, will help the team overall a bit better.

He is also not quite good enough yet to go to an Everton, or a Swansea and be a starting role either. So he is left going on loan to championship teams that see passed his skill and first look to workrate, which is IMO his worst feature.

he would be better staying with us, and getting a few games off the bench like he did in his first season IMO.
 
I think you can count on one hand the amount of loans that actually benefit the player each season.

Certainly when it comes to our players.
 
Carl said:
Despite the fact I'd argue that Powell does infact have much to prove at that level lets say that he doesn't and you could say neither has someone like Will Hughes but he's continuing to thrive at Derby and becoming a better player in the process by virtue of playing regular competitive football.

Agree with Kag, rarely do these loans to struggling Premier League sides pay off. Would much rather either simply keep him training at or club or get him regular football in the Championship.
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Not really comparable as he's not on the books of a PL team, so there's no choice but to continue playing at that level.

As per the other examples I mentioned, it's possible to play a lot of football on loan to a PL club. Andre Wisdom is the first that sprung to mind because he played against us so recently. Loads more examples where he comes from though. Obviously, it will all depend on the talent and work ethic of the individual player.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
Not really comparable as he's not on the books of a PL team, so there's no choice but to continue playing at that level.

As per the other examples I mentioned, it's possible to play a lot of football on loan to a PL club. Andre Wisdom is the first that sprung to mind because he played against us so recently. Loads more examples where he comes from though. Obviously, it will all depend on the talent and work ethic of the individual player.
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Will Hughes has turned down moves to Premier League clubs choosing to remain in the Championship and actually play. Point being re Powell is that it's surely better to play and develop as a player in the Championship rather than being farmed out to a Premier League side and not getting a kick.

But stepping away from someone like Hughes, I agree that there are numerous examples of on loan players getting minutes in the Premier League but how many of those are central midfielders? Not to mention someone that could possibly be deemed as the kind of luxury midfield player that Powell is?

I can't really think of any examples in recent years aside from Wilshere.

United as a club really seem to struggle in the loan market though. Aside from Evans, Welbeck and Cleverley I can't actually think of any successful loan spells. We regularly seem to pick the wrong options.
 
Why do these Clubs take players on loan if they have no intention of playing them.
 
Carl said:
Will Hughes has turned down moves to Premier League clubs choosing to remain in the Championship and actually play. Point being re Powell is that it's surely better to play and develop as a player in the Championship rather than being farmed out to a Premier League side and not getting a kick.

But stepping away from someone like Hughes, I agree that there are numerous examples of on loan players getting minutes in the Premier League but how many of those are central midfielders? Not to mention someone that could possibly be deemed as the kind of luxury midfield player that Powell is?

I can't really think of any examples in recent years aside from Wilshere.

United as a club really seem to struggle in the loan market though. Aside from Evans, Welbeck and Cleverley I can't actually think of any successful loan spells. We regularly seem to pick the wrong options.
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Why "aside from Wilshere"? Isn't that the level we should be aspiring to?

I just think you're blaming the wrong options when the problem is the players simply not being good enough. In a way, the club learns as much from a failed loan spell as a successful one.

People on here have unrealistically high expectations about our young players IMO. We do better than most when it comes to bringing through homegrown talent but the vast majority will still fail to make the grade.

Failing to get into the starting line-up for a newly promoted team - aged 20 - would usually be an indication that the player will turn out a busted flush. We could indefinitely pay the salaries of a dozen Championship players if we wanted to but there comes a point when young players need to sink or swim, especially when they've already shown they're capable of looking good in the second tier.

Of course, Powell might still come good. Time will tell. He'll need to overcome this not unreasonable challenge first.
 
Adam-Utd said:
Yep, unfortunately he seem's like his talent is going to waste. All the skill without the graft I fear.
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I wouldn't say "all the skill". He has a few party tricks (mainly a hard shot), but he's quite average, from what I've seen.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
Why "aside from Wilshere"? Isn't that the level we should be aspiring to?

I just think you're blaming the wrong options when the problem is the players simply not being good enough. In a way, the club learns as much from a failed loan spell as a successful one.

People on here have unrealistically high expectations about our young players IMO. We do better than most when it comes to bringing through homegrown talent but the vast majority will still fail to make the grade.

Failing to get into the starting line-up for a newly promoted team - aged 20 - would usually be an indication that the player will turn out a busted flush. We could indefinitely pay the salaries of a dozen Championship players if we wanted to but there comes a point when young players need to sink or swim, especially when they've already shown they're capable of looking good in the second tier.

Of course, Powell might still come good. Time will tell. He'll need to overcome this not unreasonable challenge first.
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"aside from Wilshere" indicating how rare it is. Wilshere was an exceptional talent at that age.

I've long since expressed how I don't think Powell will ever be a central midfielder so I don't think it's unrealistic expectations on my part. If anything it's unrealistic expectations on the club's part in thinking he's good enough to get games there.
 
How many games has he started for Leicester?
 
Speak said:
I wouldn't say "all the skill". He has a few party tricks (mainly a hard shot), but he's quite average, from what I've seen.
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Yep, this. I've not seen anything, in the various places he's played since we bought him, to suggest that he was the actual ability to have prospects at United, let alone the attitude. He's just not that good a player.

Good news about Lawrence though. There's a player with real promise.
 
Carl said:
"aside from Wilshere" indicating how rare it is. Wilshere was an exceptional talent at that age.

I've long since expressed how I don't think Powell will ever be a central midfielder so I don't think it's unrealistic expectations on my part. If anything it's unrealistic expectations on the club's part in thinking he's good enough to get games there.
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Any player good enough for a long term career with Manchester United should also be an exceptional talent at that age.

Not really fussed about exactly which position he plays. Just want to see him prove himself better than at least one first XI player at Leicester, in whatever position the opportunity arises. If not, then I don't think he'll cut it at United.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
Any player good enough for a long term career with Manchester United should also be an exceptional talent at that age.

Not really fussed about exactly which position he plays. Just want to see him prove himself better than at least one first XI player at Leicester, in whatever position the opportunity arises. If not, then I don't think he'll cut it at United.
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Well, that's probably Powell's problem. He isn't good enough for a long-term career at United.

I wouldn't be surprised if he end up doing what Kieran Richardson's doing - playing for this club, then that club.
In fact, I wouldn't be overly surprised if Powell plays as many games (or more) in the Championship as the Premier League.

Got to feel for him a bit, as he's had the same issue as Zaha:
Being brought in by a manager who quickly departed. The next couple of managers haven't had the time to focus on him, and probably wouldn't have signed him in the first place.

Sir Alex would have had a plan in place to at least get him involved, whereas they're just another player to Moyes and van Gaal.
But talent-wise, I'm not seeing it anyway.
 
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If he can't get in their team he has no chance of making it here.
 
His signing was a bit bizarre in the first place. Can our scouts really judge the talent of a player, when he's playing in league 2? I mean people may argue that he was only 17 or 18, which of course should be taken into account, but it wasn't as if he was 5'3" and had a lot of physical development to undertake. Is it really enough to be looking very good in the 4th division?

I suppose at £6m it's just a punt, but there must be hundreds of player's around the world who are playing at a much higher level and look as impressive. Surely it would've made much more sense to follow his career up to a decent level and then bought him if he was continuing his progress (at 2-3x the cost of course).

I mean it's hard enough to judge a young player like Zaha, tearing up the Championship; but judging a player tearing up League 2? Surely impossible. Mind you it was a bizarre period in terms of our signings in general.
 
I dont think he cost £6m did he? thought it was more like £3m

he was just a relatively cheap punt on a promising youth player - we had many like that over the years and I suppose you only expect 1 or 2 in 10 to come off
 
Rood said:
I dont think he cost £6m did he? thought it was more like £3m

he was just a relatively cheap punt on a promising youth player - we had many like that over the years and I suppose you only expect 1 or 2 in 10 to come off
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I think it was "rising to £6m", so probably only £3-4m up front.

It still seems like a strange policy for a club our size. Say the success rate of such a signing would be 1/10 and he did only cost £3m, I still don't see the economic advantage of not just waiting until he's more proven.

I understand potentially special talents like Ronaldo, Nani & Anderson, as you either get them early or they might end up at another top team and out of our grasp. But talents like Zaha and Powell it would make more sense to wait until they were a least a bit proven, rather than have a blunder-bus approach.
 
finneh said:
I think it was "rising to £6m", so probably only £3-4m up front.

It still seems like a strange policy for a club our size. Say the success rate of such a signing would be 1/10 and he did only cost £3m, I still don't see the economic advantage of not just waiting until he's more proven.

I understand potentially special talents like Ronaldo, Nani & Anderson, as you either get them early or they might end up at another top team and out of our grasp. But talents like Zaha and Powell it would make more sense to wait until they were a least a bit proven, rather than have a blunder-bus approach.
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I'm sure Zaha and Powell were both perceived to be just as "potentially special" as Nani, Anderson and Ronaldo. Obviously, it's an inexact science.
 
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