NFL 2023

Dave Smith said:
1) Their fans do a highly moronic arm chop motion as their principal means of celebration
2) PM III is overly protected and sound like Kermit the Frog
3) People are getting fed up with seeing KC in the SB year after year.



I think the hate comes from what Purdy represents.

He for a lot of people shouldn't be classed as elite athlete because he doesn't have any of the 'measurables' they typically rate players with. For instance, he doesn't have a gun of an arm like PM or Herbert, he cannot run with the ball like Jackson or Allen, he is short for a QB, he doesn't have that much charisma (or the type of charisma that translates on screen.)

Then there is the whole aspect of the draft. People bang on for months/years about kids coming through, using data, highlights and comparisons to support their guy/choice. The amount of work/effort that goes into supporting such arguments is normally quite a lot so people feel offended imo, when someone like Purdy rocks up as he shouldn't be beating their guy(s) who they said should be locks for the 1/2/3 round.

Lastly, there is also a bit of a disconnect between what people say makes a elite QB and what actually makes an elite QB - or a QB that has a great winning record. If you listen to the talking heads it principally focuses on the physical aspects of a player, whether that be arm, size, speed, strength or all of the above. However, what actually wins games is a QB's ability to quick release accurately, their pre-snap reading of opposition defences, their ability to scramble to extend a play (this is something Purdy is good at but gets little credit for as be doesn't have great acceleration or a high top gear), their ability to communicate the plays the offensive need to play on the next play/relay the HC/OC's instructions. These are the qualities that made Brady and they're also the qualities PM has, but these get underrated as they're not quite on Brady's level and he has flashy physical skills that blind people to those skills he also possesses.

In a nutshell, Purdy has a lot those more intangible qualities - although it is still early days in his career to say if he can maintain such levels when he doesn't have such a strong supporting cast.

So yeah, for me Purdy is a difficult player for people to evaluate and as a result they don't like him for it/don't like it when people point things out that he does well.
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Great post.

RoadTrip said:
This is a well articulated post. People forget that in elite level sport, the differentiator is often mental attributes that are much harder to evaluate. Which on a United forum is surprising people don’t understand given that’s why we were so successful for the most part under Fergie.

Now whether Purdy falls into this bucket yet is far too early to conclude. Which is why I’m surprised that there is such polar views on him. Especially from @RobinLFC who otherwise is the banner boy for giving young QBs time :lol:
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I probably expressed myself too strongly yesterday - I have nothing against the guy himself, but rather how the media portrays him. And a Super Bowl win against Mahomes would only make that way worse, which is why I can't find myself rooting for the Niners in two weeks. Otherwise I wouldn't have an issue with them, I love Kittle, CMC deserves a ring, ... But just look at what some of those media personalities are saying:



Brock Purdy has separated himself from Tua, Prescott, Cousins, HERBERT? Why do we have to do this hyperbole all the time? Shanahan wouldn't think longer than 5 seconds if he was offered Justin Herbert instead of Prock Purdy.

And yeah I really often do believe in young QBs and giving them time. Looks like I was right on someone like Jordan Love as well (jury still out), and I still believe Justin Fields can succeeed in this league in the right environment. There basically are two extreme scenarios and I think the truth is somewhere in the middle:
- The Niners unearthed an absolute gem with the last pick of the draft who every other team overlooked and Purdy is in fact the second coming of Joe Montana;
- The Niners are a great environment and have a great setup/offensive scheme for QBs to succeed. They are competitive with any half capable guy under center.

Regarding the first scenario, the Niners traded a gazillion first round picks for Trey Lance only to not give him a fair shot (in my opinion). In fact I still even believe in him :lol: But if they were the QB whisperers in the draft they would need to be in order to see something in Purdy that no one else saw, they'd have their evaluations on point and Trey Lance at #3 was a bad one for them. This scenario is very, very unlikely.

For the second scenario, we already now they can be competitive with average QBs, since Jimmy G took them to the Super Bowl with a worse supporting cast than Purdy currently has. QBs are far more likely to succeed in the right environment. It's not a coincidence that the Packers look like they've found their next franchise QB for the third time in a row, and it's not a coincidence that Fields has struggled in Chicago. Switch those players in situations and we might be talking about Fields like we do about Allen imo.

Guys I'd have over Purdy:
1. Mahomes
2. Allen
3. Herbert
4. Burrow
5. Lamar
6. Stroud
7. Hurts
8. Lawrence
9. Kyler
10. Rodgers
11. Love
12. Tua
13. Prescott
14. Richardson
15. Fields
16. Stafford
17. Goff

And that is really off the top of my head in less than half a minute. Could add Deshaun Watson as well if he wasn't a despicable human being. I would place Purdy in the tier of Mayfield, Russell, Geno, Cousins. I don't think he would be starting material anywhere outside of San Francisco.
 
Dave Smith said:
1) Their fans do a highly moronic arm chop motion as their principal means of celebration
2) PM III is overly protected and sound like Kermit the Frog
3) People are getting fed up with seeing KC in the SB year after year.



I think the hate comes from what Purdy represents.

He for a lot of people shouldn't be classed as elite athlete because he doesn't have any of the 'measurables' they typically rate players with. For instance, he doesn't have a gun of an arm like PM or Herbert, he cannot run with the ball like Jackson or Allen, he is short for a QB, he doesn't have that much charisma (or the type of charisma that translates on screen.)

Then there is the whole aspect of the draft. People bang on for months/years about kids coming through, using data, highlights and comparisons to support their guy/choice. The amount of work/effort that goes into supporting such arguments is normally quite a lot so people feel offended imo, when someone like Purdy rocks up as he shouldn't be beating their guy(s) who they said should be locks for the 1/2/3 round.

Lastly, there is also a bit of a disconnect between what people say makes a elite QB and what actually makes an elite QB - or a QB that has a great winning record. If you listen to the talking heads it principally focuses on the physical aspects of a player, whether that be arm, size, speed, strength or all of the above. However, what actually wins games is a QB's ability to quick release accurately, their pre-snap reading of opposition defences, their ability to scramble to extend a play (this is something Purdy is good at but gets little credit for as be doesn't have great acceleration or a high top gear), their ability to communicate the plays the offensive need to play on the next play/relay the HC/OC's instructions. These are the qualities that made Brady and they're also the qualities PM has, but these get underrated as they're not quite on Brady's level and he has flashy physical skills that blind people to those skills he also possesses.

In a nutshell, Purdy has a lot those more intangible qualities - although it is still early days in his career to say if he can maintain such levels when he doesn't have such a strong supporting cast.

So yeah, for me Purdy is a difficult player for people to evaluate and as a result they don't like him for it/don't like it when people point things out that he does well.
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Agree with all except number 1. They are tomahawk chop plagiarists.
 
RobinLFC said:
Great post.


I probably expressed myself too strongly yesterday - I have nothing against the guy himself, but rather how the media portrays him. And a Super Bowl win against Mahomes would only make that way worse, which is why I can't find myself rooting for the Niners in two weeks. Otherwise I wouldn't have an issue with them, I love Kittle, CMC deserves a ring, ... But just look at what some of those media personalities are saying:



Brock Purdy has separated himself from Tua, Prescott, Cousins, HERBERT? Why do we have to do this hyperbole all the time? Shanahan wouldn't think longer than 5 seconds if he was offered Justin Herbert instead of Prock Purdy.

And yeah I really often do believe in young QBs and giving them time. Looks like I was right on someone like Jordan Love as well (jury still out), and I still believe Justin Fields can succeeed in this league in the right environment. There basically are two extreme scenarios and I think the truth is somewhere in the middle:
- The Niners unearthed an absolute gem with the last pick of the draft who every other team overlooked and Purdy is in fact the second coming of Joe Montana;
- The Niners are a great environment and have a great setup/offensive scheme for QBs to succeed. They are competitive with any half capable guy under center.

Regarding the first scenario, the Niners traded a gazillion first round picks for Trey Lance only to not give him a fair shot (in my opinion). In fact I still even believe in him :lol: But if they were the QB whisperers in the draft they would need to be in order to see something in Purdy that no one else saw, they'd have their evaluations on point and Trey Lance at #3 was a bad one for them. This scenario is very, very unlikely.

For the second scenario, we already now they can be competitive with average QBs, since Jimmy G took them to the Super Bowl with a worse supporting cast than Purdy currently has. QBs are far more likely to succeed in the right environment. It's not a coincidence that the Packers look like they've found their next franchise QB for the third time in a row, and it's not a coincidence that Fields has struggled in Chicago. Switch those players in situations and we might be talking about Fields like we do about Allen imo.

Guys I'd have over Purdy:
1. Mahomes
2. Allen
3. Herbert
4. Burrow
5. Lamar
6. Stroud
7. Hurts
8. Lawrence
9. Kyler
10. Rodgers
11. Love
12. Tua
13. Prescott
14. Richardson
15. Fields
16. Stafford
17. Goff

And that is really off the top of my head in less than half a minute. Could add Deshaun Watson as well if he wasn't a despicable human being. I would place Purdy in the tier of Mayfield, Russell, Geno, Cousins. I don't think he would be starting material anywhere outside of San Francisco.
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Insert all the dumb Brady arguments spouted to me over the years to explain why a guy with average talent is actually secretly the best ever.
 
altodevil said:
Insert all the dumb Brady arguments spouted to me over the years to explain why a guy with average talent is actually secretly the best ever.
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But the proof is in the pudding. If Purdy wins several rings over two decades with a few completely different squads, then the common denominator in the story will be Prock Purdy rather than "the system" or "Kyle Shanahan". Then the intangibles are undeniable even if he doesn't pass the eye test.

It's just much harder to argue against it when the guy in question has more Super Bowl rings than any other franchise in the league :D Which is one of the main reasons I don't want the Niners to win.
 
Charlie Foley said:
I don’t remember them reacting how Mahomes did against buffalo. And the Philly sideline is pretty petulant. It was a while ago now. I thought at the time the outrage was more online
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Not that it's an excuse because his behaviour was certainly over the top against the Bills but when you're doing all you can to win a game and your receivers keep dropping the ball over and over again or finding other ways to mess up it must be tremendously frustrating. Mahomes has been in the league now for 7 years (six as a regular starter) and I don't remember him ever behaving like that before or since. He's usually very supportive to his team mates and has often taken the blame even when it's not been his fault. I think he would have liked to have gone off at Toney but the officials are a much easier target and they did deserve some of his ire. I do think it's interesting that after one final screw up in their next game against the Pats, Toney has not been on the field since and the Chiefs have been much better for it.
 
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Sandyman said:
How Often Is Taylor Swift Actually Shown at N.F.L. Games?
A romance between the pop star and Travis Kelce has dominated social media, but TV broadcasts are focusing on it less than many seem to think.

https://www.nytimes.com/2024/01/25/style/taylor-swift-nfl-broadcasts.html

This is just sad
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Sheesh. I don't hate Taylor Swift because she seems like a pretty nice person when you see an interview with her, but the attention is so fkin over the top. I wish I could just turn on a radio station for instance without hearing one of her songs every 30-60 minutes.

On another note: all this back and forth too about hating or disliking players and other teams is a tale as old as time. In some ways it feels civil compared to what I see when the F1 season is in full swing. Less teams and "players", more hate, especially for the top drivers. With sports like this or footie at least some of it is less concentrated.
 
Dave Smith said:
In a nutshell, Purdy has a lot those more intangible qualities - although it is still early days in his career to say if he can maintain such levels when he doesn't have such a strong supporting cast.

So yeah, for me Purdy is a difficult player for people to evaluate and as a result they don't like him for it/don't like it when people point things out that he does well.
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Which is odd given that his individual stats over his first two years are exceptional. For example he is averaging a 111 (113 this year) passer rating per season so far (next person on the list is Dak at 105).

His TD to INT ratio is excellent, and his general situational temperament is very good as well. When you combine his individual success with team success, that's a pretty good indicator how good he is. Its only his 2nd year, so plenty of things could go wrong, but so far, he's off to a better two year start than any other QB I've seen.
 
Redplane said:
Sheesh. I don't hate Taylor Swift because she seems like a pretty nice person when you see an interview with her, but the attention is so fkin over the top. I wish I could just turn on a radio station for instance without hearing one of her songs every 30-60 minutes.

On another note: all this back and forth too about hating or disliking players and other teams is a tale as old as time. In some ways it feels civil compared to what I see when the F1 season is in full swing. Less teams and "players", more hate, especially for the top drivers. With sports like this or footie at least some of it is less concentrated.
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To be fair the obsession of playing her music is fine because clearly they do it because their listeners like it and it’s actually what she’s famous for so I can live with it even if I don’t want to listen to it.

But she has nothing to do with the NFL, so the obsession with showing her at games is annoying.
 
RoadTrip said:
To be fair the obsession of playing her music is fine because clearly they do it because their listeners like it and it’s actually what she’s famous for so I can live with it even if I don’t want to listen to it.

But she has nothing to do with the NFL, so the obsession with showing her at games is annoying.
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And in her defense, she's not doing anything to garner this attention. Need to call out the coverage for continuing to cut to her.
 
Oldyella said:
And in her defense, she's not doing anything to garner this attention. Need to call out the coverage for continuing to cut to her.
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Apparently she's generated the NFL around $330m in brand value this season alone, they couldn't care less about what diehard fans think about the Taylor cams if that's true.
 
Oldyella said:
Ah...

Well that is quite a lot of money :lol:
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Yeah I edited my post, it's rather "brand value" for the Chiefs and NFL rather than generated income I believe, but still... They are attracting a completely different crowd with her presence and involvement, and given that it's a money-oriented league, I don't see why they would change it.

It hasn't really even caught my attention during the Chiefs' playoff games to be honest, hoping it's not gonna be different for the Super Bowl. We got regular cuts to Eminem when the Lions play as well, but for some reason you don't hear the average NFL fan complaining about that at all :lol:
 
RobinLFC said:
Apparently she's generated the NFL around $330m in brand value this season alone, they couldn't care less about what diehard fans think about the Taylor cams if that's true.
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Thing is: if it would be someone else i.e. Swift fans dont like, many of them would decry that is a poor reason to shove someone in our face all the time. Human beings are exceptionally hypocritical in that sense. Personally I couldn't care less how much more money the NFL makes off another celeb. It doesn't benefit anyone but those who already have the most.
 
The Taylor swift thing annoyed me a bit at the beginning, but honestly, you’re watching almost an hour of adverts during a broadcast. You’ll survive 20 seconds of Taylor Swift.
 
Dan_F said:
The Taylor swift thing annoyed me a bit at the beginning, but honestly, you’re watching almost an hour of adverts during a broadcast. You’ll survive 20 seconds of Taylor Swift.
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She should buy ad-time during games just to mess with people.
 
Dan_F said:
The Taylor swift thing annoyed me a bit at the beginning, but honestly, you’re watching almost an hour of adverts during a broadcast. You’ll survive 20 seconds of Taylor Swift.
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Oh I don't disagree with that. The time dedicated to commercials seem to be so much worse than it ever was. And that's saying a lot considering football has always been bad for that.
 


Titans offense was humming with him as OC under Vrabel, but that might be in part because it coincided with King Henry's dominance. He was a terrible and arrogant HC but I'm not ready to write him off as OC as well.
 
Redplane said:
Oh I don't disagree with that. The time dedicated to commercials seem to be so much worse than it ever was. And that's saying a lot considering football has always been bad for that.
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I’ve been watching Sky Sports coverage once the game starts because at least you get some punditry during the breaks. It’s dire, but I’d rather listen to someone talking about the game and showing replays than continuous adverts.
 
Dan_F said:
I’ve been watching Sky Sports coverage once the game starts because at least you get some punditry during the breaks. It’s dire, but I’d rather listen to someone talking about the game and showing replays than continuous adverts.
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I would rather watch a blank screen then have to listen to that punk ass bitch Neil Reynolds.
 
RobinLFC said:
Guys I'd have over Purdy:
1. Mahomes
2. Allen
3. Herbert
4. Burrow
5. Lamar
6. Stroud
7. Hurts
8. Lawrence
9. Kyler
10. Rodgers
11. Love
12. Tua
13. Prescott
14. Richardson
15. Fields
16. Stafford
17. Goff

And that is really off the top of my head in less than half a minute. Could add Deshaun Watson as well if he wasn't a despicable human being. I would place Purdy in the tier of Mayfield, Russell, Geno, Cousins. I don't think he would be starting material anywhere outside of San Francisco.
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Think you're being pretty harsh on Russell Wilson tbh. If Russell had this 9ers offense.....
Agree with everything else though.
 
the_cliff said:
Think you're being pretty harsh on Russell Wilson tbh. If Russell had this 9ers offense.....
Agree with everything else though.
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Russ is pretty much done. His game was based on his ability to run and extend plays. Take that away and he’s sack prone and hangs onto the ball way too long
 
Man of Leisure said:
Russ is pretty much done. His game was based on his ability to run and extend plays. Take that away and he’s sack prone and hangs onto the ball way too long
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I'd still take Russ now over Purdy tbh. Even though he isn't as good as his seahawks days.

I mean at least with Russ we've seen the level he can reach when it all clicks for him.
 
RobinLFC said:


Titans offense was humming with him as OC under Vrabel, but that might be in part because it coincided with King Henry's dominance. He was a terrible and arrogant HC but I'm not ready to write him off as OC as well.
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The Yinzer is definitely not happy at the news of Arthur Smith. That scream really is what you hear when the salt level is... an industrial accident. :lol: :lol: :lol:

 
calodo2003 said:
What I don’t get is how Papa was even considered to become the Niners PBP man after such a solid career doing the same with Oakland. It happened after my time in SF; was it an acrimonious departure from the Raiders or did his contract run out & he just defected over the bay?
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His story has always been it was acrimonious. he says he wasn’t happy that Mark Davis was going to interview Mike Shanahan whom Al Davis was not fond of after he coached in Oakland. Papa threatened to quit if they hired Shanahan out of loyalty to Al. And he talked a lot of smack about it on the radio. This is back in 2015. Mark wasn’t too happy and felt blindsided, Papa refused to apologise. It’s very funny he now announces Mike’s son’s games.

their loss is our gain, though I know a few people who don’t like him. He has a great voice for radio.
 
Charlie Foley said:
His story has always been it was acrimonious. he says he wasn’t happy that Mark Davis was going to interview Mike Shanahan whom Al Davis was not fond of after he coached in Oakland. Papa threatened to quit if they hired Shanahan out of loyalty to Al. And he talked a lot of smack about it on the radio. This is back in 2015. Mark wasn’t too happy and felt blindsided, Papa refused to apologise. It’s very funny he now announces Mike’s son’s games.

their loss is our gain, though I know a few people who don’t like him. He has a great voice for radio.
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Yep, he is quite good. Used to enjoy listening to him.
 
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